Understanding Our Pandemic – Economy Predicament

The world’s number one problem today is that the world’s population is too large for its resource base. Some people have called this situation overshoot. The world economy is ripe for a major change, such as the current pandemic, to bring the situation into balance. The change doesn’t necessarily come from the coronavirus itself. Instead, it is likely to come from the whole chain reaction that has been started by the coronavirus and the response of governments around the world to the coronavirus.

Let me explain more about what is happening.

[1] The world economy is reaching Limits to Growth, as described in the book with a similar title.

One way of seeing the predicament we are in is the modeling of resource consumption and population growth described in the 1972 book, The Limits to Growth, by Donella Meadows et al. Its base scenario seems to suggest that the world will reach limits about now. Chart 1 shows the base forecast from that book, together with a line I added giving my impression of where the economy really was in 2019, relative to resource availability.

Figure 1. Base scenario from 1972 Limits to Growth, printed using today’s graphics by Charles Hall and John Day in “Revisiting Limits to Growth After Peak Oil,” with dotted line added corresponding to where the world economy seems to be in 2019.

In 2019, the world economy seemed to be very close to starting a downhill trajectory. Now, it appears to me that we have reached the turning point and are on our way down. The pandemic is the catalyst for this change to a downward trend. It certainly is not the whole cause of the change. If the underlying dynamics had not been in place, the impact of the virus would likely have been much less.

The 1972 model leaves out two important parts of the economy that probably make the downhill trajectory steeper than shown in Figure 1. First, the model leaves out debt and, in fact, the whole financial system. After the 2008 crisis, many people strongly suspected that the financial system would play an important role as we reach the limits of a finite world because debt defaults are likely to disturb the worldwide financial system.

The model also leaves out humans’ continual battle with pathogens. The problem with pathogens becomes greater as world population becomes denser, facilitating transmission. The problem also becomes greater as a larger share of the population becomes more susceptible, either because they are elderly or because they have underlying health conditions that have been hidden by an increasingly complex and expensive medical system.

As a result, we cannot really believe the part of Figure 1 that is after 2020. The future downslopes of population, industrial production per capita, and food per capita all seem likely to be steeper than shown on the chart because both the debt and pathogen problems are likely to increase the speed at which the economy declines.

[2] It is far more than the population that has overshot limits.

The issue isn’t simply that there are too many people relative to resources. The world seems to have

  • Too many shopping malls and stores
  • Too many businesses of all kinds, with many not very profitable for their owners
  • Governments with too extensive programs, which taxpayers cannot really afford
  • Too much debt
  • An unaffordable amount of pension promises
  • Too low interest rates
  • Too many people with low wages or no wages at all
  • Too expensive a healthcare system
  • Too expensive an educational system

The world economy needs to shrink back in many ways at once, simultaneously, to manage within its resource limits. It is not clear how much of an economy (or multiple smaller economies) will be left after this shrinkage occurs.

[3] The economy is in many ways like the human body. In physics terms, both are dissipative structures. They are both self-organizing systems powered by energy (food for humans; a mixture of energy products including oil, coal, natural gas, burned biomass and electricity for the economy).

The human body will try to fix minor problems. For example, if someone’s hand is cut, blood will tend to clot to prevent too much blood loss, and skin will tend to grow to substitute for the missing skin. Similarly, if businesses in an area disappear because of a tornado, the prior owners will either tend to rebuild them or new businesses will tend to come in to replace them, as long as adequate resources are available.

In both systems, there is a point beyond which problems cannot be fixed, however. We know that many people die in car accidents if injuries are too serious, for example. Similarly, the world economy may “collapse” if conditions deviate too far from what is necessary for economic growth to continue. In fact, at this point, the world economy may be so close to the edge with respect to resources, particularly energy resources, that even a minor pandemic could push the world economy into a permanent cycle of contraction.

[4] World governments are in a poor position to fix the current resource and pandemic crisis.

In our networked economy, too low a resource base relative to population manifests itself in a strange way: It appears as an affordability crisis that leads to very low prices for oil. It also appears as terribly low prices for many other commodities, including copper, lithium, coal and even wholesale electricity. These low prices occur because too large a share of the population cannot afford finished goods, such as cars and homes, made with these commodities. Recent shutdowns have suddenly increased the number of people with low income or no income, pushing commodity prices even lower.

If resources were more plentiful and very inexpensive to produce, as they were 50 or 70 years ago, wages of workers could be much higher, relative to the cost of resources. Factory workers would be able to afford to buy vehicles, for example, and thus help keep the demand for automobiles up. If we look more deeply into this, we find that energy resources of many kinds (fossil fuel energy, nuclear energy, burned biomass and other renewable energy) must be extraordinarily cheap and abundant to keep the system growing. Without “surplus energy” from many sources, which grows with population, the whole system tends to collapse.

World governments cannot print resources. What they can print is debt. Debt can be viewed as a promise of future goods and services, whether or not it is reasonable to believe that these future goods and services will actually materialize, given resource constraints.

We are finding that using shutdowns to solve COVID-19 problems causes a huge amount of economic damage. The cost of mitigating this damage seems to be unreasonably high. For example, in the United States, antibody studies suggest that roughly 5% of the population has been infected with COVID-19. The total number of deaths associated with this 5% infection level is perhaps 100,000, assuming that reported deaths to date (about 80,000) need to be increased somewhat, to match the approximately 5% of the population that has, knowingly or unknowingly, already experienced the infection.

If we estimate that the mean number of years of life lost is 13 years per person, then the total years of life lost would be about 1,300,000. If we estimate that the US treasury needed to borrow $3 trillion dollars to mitigate this damage, the cost per year of life lost is $3 trillion divided by 1.3 million, or $2.3 million per year of life lost. This amount is utterly absurd.

This approach is clearly not something the United States can scale up, as the share of the population affected by COVID-19 relentlessly rises from 5% to something like 70% or 80%, in the absence of a vaccine. We have no choice but to use a different approach.

[5] COVID-19 would have the least impact on the world economy if people could pay little attention to the pandemic and just “let it run.” Of course, even without mitigation attempts, COVID-19 might bring the world economy down, given the distressed level of today’s economy and the shutdowns experienced to date.

Shutting down an economy has a huge adverse impact on that economy because quite a few workers who are in good health are no longer able to make goods and services. As a result, they have no wages, so their “demand” goes way down. If the economy was already having an affordability crisis for goods made with commodities, shutting down the economy tends to greatly add to the affordability crisis. Prices of commodities tend to fall even lower than they were before the crisis.

Back in 1957-1958, the Asian pandemic, which also started in China, hit the world. The number of deaths was up in the range of the current pandemic, relative to population. The estimated worldwide death rate was 0.67%.  This is not too dissimilar from a death rate of 0.61% for COVID-19, which can be calculated using my estimate above (100,000 deaths relative to 5% of the US population of 33o million).

Virtually nothing was shut down in the US for the 1957-58 pandemic. When doctors or nurses became sick themselves, wards were simply closed. Would-be patients were told to stay at home and take aspirin, unless a severe case developed. With this approach, the US still faced a short recession, but the economy was soon growing again. Populations seemed to reach herd immunity quite quickly.

If the world could somehow have adopted a similar approach this time, there still would have been some adverse impact on the economy. A small percentage of the population would have died. Some businesses might have needed to be closed for a short time when too many workers were out sick. But the huge burden of job loss by a substantial share of the economy could have been avoided. The economy would have had at least a small chance of rebounding quickly.

[6] The virus that causes COVID-19 looks a great deal like a laboratory cross between SARS and HIV, making the likelihood of a quick vaccine low.

In fact, Professor Luc Montagnier, co-discoverer of the AIDS virus and winner of a Nobel Prize in Medicine, claims that the new coronavirus is the result of an attempt to manufacture a vaccine against the AIDS virus. He believes that the accidental release of this virus is what is causing today’s pandemic.

If COVID-19 were simply another influenza virus, similar to many we have seen, then getting a vaccine that would work passably well would be a relatively easy exercise. At least one of the vaccine trials that have been started could be reasonably expected to work, and a solution would not be far away.

Unfortunately, SARS and HIV are fairly different from influenza viruses. We have never found a vaccine for either one. If a person has had SARS once, and is later exposed to a slightly mutated version of SARS, the symptoms of the second infection seem to be worse than the first. This characteristic interferes with finding a suitable vaccine. We don’t know whether the virus causing COVID-19 will have a similar characteristic.

We know that scientists from a number of countries have been working on so-called “gain of function” experiments with viruses. These very risky experiments are aimed at making viruses either more virulent, or more transmissible, or both. In fact, experiments were going on in Wuhan, in two different laboratories, with viruses that seem to be not too different from the virus causing COVID-19.

We don’t know for certain whether there was an accident that caused the release of one of these gain of function viruses in Wuhan. We do know, however, that China has been doing a lot of cover-up activity to deter others from finding out what actually happened in Wuhan.

We also know that Dr. Fauci, a well-known COVID-19 advisor, had his hand in this Chinese research activity. Fauci’s organization, the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, provided partial funding for the gain of function experiments on bat coronaviruses in Wuhan. While the intent of the experiments seems to have been for the good of mankind, it would seem that Dr. Fauci’s judgment erred in the direction of allowing too much risk for the world’s population.

[7] We are probably kidding ourselves about ever being able to contain the virus that causes COVID-19. 

We are gradually learning that the virus causing COVID-19 is easily spread, even by people who do not show any symptoms of the disease. The virus can spread long distances through the air. Tests to see if people are ill tend to produce a lot of false negatives; because of this, it is close to impossible to know whether a particular person has the illness or not.

China is finding that it cannot really contain the virus that causes COVID-19. A recent South China Morning Post article indicates that roughly 14 million people are to be tested in the Wuhan area in the next ten days to try to control a new outbreak of the virus.

It is becoming clear, as well, that even within China, the lockdowns have had a very negative impact on the economy. The Wall Street Journal reports, China Economic Data Indicate V-Shaped Recovery Is Unlikely. Supply chains were broken; wholesale commodity prices (excluding food) have tended to fall. Joblessness is increasingly a problem.

[8] If we look at deaths per million by country, it is difficult to see that lockdowns are very helpful in reducing the spread of disease. Masks seem to be more beneficial.

If we compare death rates for mask-wearing East Asian countries to death rates elsewhere, we see that death rates in mask-wearing East Asian countries are dramatically lower.

Figure 2. Death rates per million population of selected countries with long-term exposure to the virus causing COVID-19, based on Johns Hopkins death data as of May 11, 2020.

Looking at the chart, a person almost wonders whether lockdowns are a response to requests from citizens to “do something” in response to an already evident surge in cases. The countries known for their severe lockdowns are at the top of the chart, not the bottom.

In fact, a preprint academic paper by Thomas Meunier is titled, “Full lockdown policies in Western Europe countries have no evident impacts on the COVID-19 epidemic.” The abstract says, “Comparing the trajectory of the epidemic before and after the lockdown, we find no evidence of any discontinuity in the growth rate, doubling time, or reproduction number trends.  .  . We also show that neighboring countries applying less restrictive social distancing measures (as opposed to police-enforced home containment) experience a very similar time evolution of the epidemic.”

It appears to me that lockdowns have been popular with governments around the world for a whole host of reasons that have little to do with the spread of COVID-19:

  • Lockdowns give an excuse for closing borders to visitors and goods from outside. This was a direction in which many countries were already headed, in an attempt to raise the wages of local workers.
  • Lockdowns can be used to hide the fact that factories need to be closed because of breaks in supply lines elsewhere in the world.
  • Many countries have been faced with governmental protests because of low wages compared to the prices of basic services. Lockdowns tend to keep protesters inside.
  • Lockdowns give the appearance of protecting the elderly. Since there are many elderly voters, politicians need to court these voters.

[9] A person wonders whether Dr. Fauci and members of the World Health Organization are influenced by the wishes of vaccine and big pharmaceutical companies.

The recommendation to try to “flatten the curve” is, in part, an attempt to give vaccine and pharmaceutical makers more time to work on their products. Is this really the best recommendation? Perhaps I am being overly suspicious, but we recently have been dealing with an opioid epidemic which was encouraged by manufacturers of Oxycontin and other opioids. We don’t need another similar experience, this time sponsored by vaccine and other pharmaceutical makers.

The temptation of researchers is to choose solutions that would be best from the point of their own business interests. If a researcher gets much of his funding from vaccine and big pharmaceutical interests, the temptation will be to “push” solutions that are beneficial to these interests. In some cases, researchers are able to patent approaches, even when the research is paid for by governmental grants. In this case they can directly benefit from a new vaccine or drug.

When potential solutions are discussed by Dr. Fauci and the World Health Organization, no one brings up improving people’s immunity so that they can better fight off the novel coronavirus. Few bring up masks. Instead, we keep being warned about “opening up too soon.” In a way, this sounds like, “Please leave us lots of customers who might be willing to pay a high price for our vaccine.”

[10] One way the combination of (a) the activity of the virus and (b) our responses to the virus may play out is as a slow-motion, controlled demolition of the world economy. 

I think of what we are experiencing as being somewhat similar to a toggle bolt going around and around, moving down a screw. As the toggle bolt moves around, I picture it as being similar to the virus and our responses to the viruses hitting different parts of the world economy.

Figure 3. Image of how the author sees COVID-19 as being able to hit the economy multiple times, in multiple ways, as its impact keeps impacting different parts of the world.

If we look back, the virus and reactions to the virus first hit China. China’s recovery is moving slowly, in part because of reduced demand from outside of China now that the virus is hitting other parts of the world. In fact, additional layoffs occurred after Chinese shutdowns ended, because it then became clear that some employers needed to permanently scale back operations to meet the new lower demand for their product.

Commodity prices, including oil prices, are now depressed because of low demand around the world. These low prices can be expected to gradually lead to closures of wells and mines extracting these commodities. Processing centers will also close, making these commodities less available even if demand temporarily rises.

As one country is hit by illnesses and/or shutdowns, we can expect supply lines for manufacturing around the world to be disrupted. This will lead to yet more business closures, some of them permanent. Debt defaults tend to happen as businesses close and layoffs occur.

With all of the layoffs, governments will find that their tax collections are lower. The resulting governmental funding issues can be expected to lead to new rounds of layoffs.

Natural disasters such as hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, earthquakes and forest fires can be expected to continue to happen. Social distancing requirements, inadequate tax revenue and broken supply lines will make mitigation of all of these disasters more difficult. Electrical lines that fall down may stay down permanently; bridges that are damaged may never be repaired.

Initially, rich countries can be expected to try to help as many laid-off workers as possible with loans and temporary stipends. But, after a few months, even with this approach, many individual citizens and businesses will likely not be able to pay their rent. Default rates on home mortgages and auto loans can be expected to rise for a similar reason.

We can expect to see round after round of business failures and layoffs of employees. Financial systems will become more and more stressed. Pensions are likely to default. Death rates will rise, in part from epidemics of various kinds and in part from growing problems with starvation. In fact, in some poor countries, lower-income citizens are already having difficulty being able to afford adequate food. Eventually we can expect collapsing governments (similar to the collapse of the central government of the Soviet Union) and overthrown governments.

Longer-term, after this demolition ends, there may be some surviving pieces of economies. These new economies will be much smaller and less dependent upon each other, however. Currencies are likely to be less interchangeable. The remaining people will need to learn to make do with many fewer goods than are available today. It will be a very different world.

About Gail Tverberg

My name is Gail Tverberg. I am an actuary interested in finite world issues - oil depletion, natural gas depletion, water shortages, and climate change. Oil limits look very different from what most expect, with high prices leading to recession, and low prices leading to financial problems for oil producers and for oil exporting countries. We are really dealing with a physics problem that affects many parts of the economy at once, including wages and the financial system. I try to look at the overall problem.
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3,868 Responses to Understanding Our Pandemic – Economy Predicament

  1. Hubbs says:

    Since I am a blackballed physician and unable to work, (although no problem with my DEA or NC licenses), I think I will apply for a job administering vaccines, you know, even dumber than the NSA screening agents at the airports who instead of watching OPRAH on their TVs at home all day, will try to pick out tubes of toothpaste in the carry-ons. I think therefore I might be qualified to stick needles into people. Just think of the all the money I could make collecting bribes from people who would pay me to pretend I had administered their vaccine as I quietly squirted it down the sink.

    FE, you just lost your job. What do you think? Misery loves company.
    Seriously, I think there is a huge potential for a black market and kickback scheme if they ever try to push these “vaccines” on the people.

    • Covidinamonthorayearoradecade says:


    • fred_goes_bush says:

      I’m curious. Why did you get blackballed (if it’s not too personal to discuss)?

      • Hubbs says:

        Don’t buy the book according to one reviewer on Amazon who gave it 5 stars”…it’s too depressing.” It is an epic tale which no one would believe, except the other three reviewers on Amazon who are former colleagues, so their 5 star ratings are biased.
        But in a nutshell, I gave the operating room nurse a clear concise order for 40cc 0.5% xylocaine. The only drug in the case. She wrote the order down on her scrubs, read it back verbatim. Then, in a premeditated act which was in violation of nursing and hospital rules and regs, she sent a tech to “go fetch the local ” The tech as you might imagine, had no idea what she was supposed to get and selected and drew up a lethal drug and handed the syringe to the nurse. I didn’t know this had gone on behind my back as I returned to the operating room and the nurse didn’t check what this tech had handed her. The 21 yr old man died on the table. Even though the board’s own same specialty expert , as required by the Statutes governing the KY Medical Practice required, thoroughly exonerated me and did his own Bier blocks as part of the combined procedure as I and all the other orthopedic surgeons were doing at the time, the board then switched standards and held me to anesthesia standards. It was public relations because of the outage over a sex offender in my own hospital
        had the pubic enraged and the accusation that the KY Medical Board was not disciplining doctors. I was served up as a scapegoat. And from there, I have a had a dark interest in military history especially with court-martials like Breaker Morant and Captain McVay

  2. Yoshua says:


    The End

  3. beidawei says:

    They’re like, kamikazi bombers!

  4. adonis says:

    A Europe-focussed part of the United Nations argues that the “mass use of cars will not be sustainable” after global lockdowns ease. To meet international climate change obligations, governments will instead have to fund and promote “more environmentally sound, healthy ‎and sustainable” forms of mobility, “particularly bicycle use.”

    • Covidinamonthorayearoradecade says:

      let me know when every UN official everywhere in the world stops using any kind of cars for their local transportation, and starts to use bicycles…

      • I wonder how transportation of food will work. These still need the use of trucks. Trucks need the use of roads. Affording road upkeep becomes impossible when trucks are the only traffic. Their weight quickly wears out road. But everywhere, automobile traffic helps pay for road upkeep. Food costs would be much higher, if road upkeep moves to taxes on food.

        • Matthew Krajcik says:

          If the trucks drive slower, they will wear the roads significantly less. More boats and trains would also help, as they are far more energy efficient and cause less wear and tear. Probably a lot of that is because they move much slower.

          • Someone needs to maintain the railroad tracks and rail cars, as well. If railroads are electric, the electricity needs to stay in working order, also. If the boats need locks or canals, these need to be maintained. It is not necessarily easy to maintain any type of transportation. Walking is the only approach that doesn’t require very much in terms of support. Even with walking, most people prefer shoes.

        • Robert Firh says:

          We knew a century ago how to transport goods with almost zero infrastructure. Yes, buoyant flight.

  5. adonis says:

    In 1976, the U.S. Association of the Club of Rome (USACOR) was created, its purpose is to shut down the U.S. economy gradually. Henry Kissinger was then, and still is, an high ranked member in the service of the Royal Institute for International Affairs, a member of the Club of Rome and the Council on Foreign Relations.

    • Covidinamonthorayearoradecade says:

      so they have been failing for 44 years…

    • Bei Dawei says:

      I looked for some sort of explanation of the Club of Rome conspiracy theory, but the conspiracy sent me to “Stuff They Don’t Want You To Know,” which had comments like these:

      “My name is James davis I live in helena Montana I was born with lots of abilities I have superhuman senses,extra strength, I can sense movements sounds, I can see vibrations of energy I can change my eye color at will I can talk to animals, I can manipulate my body to do what I want with it. I can basically do anything I’ve unlocked a powerful part of my brain you just have to see me to really know what I can do”

      “My dreams before is to become a member of the Illuminati but i try so hard to join the ones i meet always scam me i tell my self that i will never gonna give up on this not until i meet brother Joey Ham who introduce me to the brotherhood now my life is so sweet contact him if you are interested to join whats-app”


    • The European Club of Rome sponsored the 1972 Limits to Growth study. Since then, it has become a very “green” organization. It has sponsored what I would consider the ridiculous publication, 2052: A Global Forecast for the Next Forty Years by Jorgen Randers. I wrote about the absurdity of this book, back when it came out.

      • Sven Røgeberg says:

        Could you link to it, please Gail, so we we can easily find it. Btw. Randers is now holding a post as Expert on «climate strategy» at a private business school in Norway.

        • These are two posts I wrote that mention the book:



          I might also mention that the book 2052 does not have any endorsement or blurb inside from Dennis Meadows. This should not be viewed as an oversight.

          Meadows says that Randers was a graduate student who played a very minor part in the original book. IIRC, Randers helped with one of the appendixes. Two different graduate students were selected for inclusion in the list of authors of The 1972 Limits to Growth, one in the English-language version, and one in the German-language version. Randers is listed an author in the English-language version, only.

          Anders Wijkman (one of the Co-Presidents of the Club of Rome at that time) saw my first article and invited me to present a small talk at a conference he was in charge of in Stockholm, so he could meet me and talk to me about 2052. He was interested in hearing my view, in person, about the book not being correct. Of course, the book had long since been published at that point, so it was too late to do anything about it.

  6. adonis says:

    [Recommendation (3):]

    “An attempt should be made to see if viruses can in fact exert selective effects on immune function. The possibility should be looked into that the immune response to the virus itself may be impaired if the inflicting virus damages, more or less selectively, the cell responding to the virus.”

  7. Malcopian says:

    From ‘Alien Identities’ by Richard L Thompson,1993:

    Disasters involving the earth’s atmosphere are mentioned
    repeatedly in UFO communications. For example, Whitley Strieber
    said he was shown “graphic depictions of the death of the
    atmosphere, not to mention the entire planet simply exploding.”

    William Herrmann said that his Reticulan contacts informed him that
    the earth’s magnetic field was decaying and that radiation from
    space would soon wreak havoc on living organisms.

    The Ra communicator, in a more philosophical vein, spoke of a
    coming transition of the earth in which it would no longer be
    inhabitable by grossly embodied beings of the “third density.” This
    involves a crisis attended by ruptures in the earth’s “outer
    garment”—which presumably is the atmosphere.

    In 1953, a medium named Mark Probert made the following statement in a
    trance communication on UFOs and their occupants: “Your present
    danger, mitigated for a time by the Guardians, lies in the progressive
    breakdown of the upper ethers, i.e., of the ionosphere.”




    Are we all doomed? Is Fast Eddy a Reticulan?!

    • beidawei says:

      We’re out of danger thanks to “Dr.” “Sir” George King, UFO contactee and founder of the Aetherius Society, who led his followers to meditate atop various mountain peaks, and thereby recharge them with psychic energy:


      • Malcopian says:

        I remember you told me you’re based in Taiwan, so you’re OK:

        ‘Taiwan is a mountainous island. The island has the largest number and density of high mountains in the world. There are 286 mountain summits over 3,000 metres (9,800 ft) above sea level on the island.’

        Manuel Noriega of Panama apparently used to have his opponents dropped down a volcano from a helicopter. Seems like he watched too many James Bond movies and identified with the baddies.

  8. CTG says:

    FE… It is happening.. In the world of fake news, can anyone confirm this?

    “Target Is Being Looted” – Social Unrest Worsens In Minneapolis


    • Matthew Krajcik says:

      Live stream is lagging hard: https://www.pscp.tv/w/1BdxYQEyavgxX

    • Covidinamonthorayearoradecade says:


      “The first break-off protesst sprung up in downtown LA Wednesday afternoon and quickly escalated into viollence…”

      “And not only are they refusing to obey Governor Newsom’s social distancing rules, hardly anyone is wearing a mask!”


      yes! It is happening!

      the “it” that is happening is the next in a long series of protessts/ryots that seem to pop up every year or two when a black man dies by the action of a white police officer…

      and when the incident has a video that goes viral…

      this is not a new 2020 “it”…

      it’s terrrible when such a death happens, but most of the time the vicktim is white…

      in those majority cases, it’s usually not international news…

      • Fast Eddy says:

        It would appear you do not have any black American friends. I do. And this never happens to anyone but blacks. As he puts it you say NOTHING when a cop confronts you (and he is a Stanford MBA … not a crack dealer)

        Feel free to find a video of a cop strangling a white person to death.

        You post some seriously stu pid morrronic stuff… but this is deep gutter stuff. You need a sharp smack in the back of the head.

        • Kim says:

          Instead of relying on your black American friends, you might consult some facts. The first important FACT for you to acquaint yourself with is the FACT that Whites are far more likely than blacks to be shot by police.


          “…the trend of fatal police shootings in the United States seems to only be increasing, with a total 228 civilians having been shot, 31 of whom were Black, as of March 30, 2020. In 2018, there were 996 fatal police shootings, and in 2019 this figure increased to 1,004.

          So, out of 228, just 31 were blacks. This is a FACT. maybe you could tell your “black friends”.

          I am also pretty sure that black police officers are far more likely to shoot citizens (black or white) dead than are white officers, but I’ll have to get back to you on that one.

          • inconvenient facts in here usually get labelled under hoaxes, conspiracies and plots

            But I thank you for presenting them—a revelation—a light at the end of the tunnel of nonsense

        • Kim says:

          Line of Duty death for police oficers in the USA in 2019: 147, 48 from gunfire (many more than civilan deaths), 14 from being struck by vehicles, etc.


          The trouble with the FAKE NEWS that you are spreading here, FW, is not simply that it is false but that it inflames passions and aids and abets race hustlers wherever they are found as they cnspiure to make things worse, because they profit from that.

          Remember this story? Twelve police wounded, five killed, in an ambush by a sniper/”protester” who “just wanted to kill white people”? This was gainst a background of hysterical Black Lives Matter propaganda.


          You like to cast aspersions on the intelligence and gullibility of “normies” who are so prone to fall for any fake news that is fed them, but it seems to me that you are just as prone to gullibly following the party line anyone else.

        • Kim says:

          “This never happens to anyone but blacks…”

          Ha ha ha ha! You’re the guy who always sneers at the “normies” who are all fooled by the propaganda. Well, guess what? Time for you to have a look in the mirror.

          Disgusting arrogance, and ignorance.

          Do you have any idea at all of the black crime stats in the usa? do you have any idea of their frequency of involvement in violent crime? 13% of the population. 56% of the murders. Blacks in the USA kill 2000 whites a year! Is that on CNN? Why not?

          Ever heard of “polar bear hunting”? Look it up. Watch the videos if you can find them. bcs youtube scrubs them.

          Maybe I should post the recent video of the young black man attacking the old white man in the nursing home. But that is just one example of (literally) 1000s of unprovoked black on white violence I could show you.

          Wake up, normie!

          • Yorchichan says:

            Don’t remember reading much about this on the BBC, or white people rioting afterwards for that matter.


            Admittedly, they were only trying to murder the 6 year old’s father.

            • Fast Eddy says:

              Thats not quite the same is it …. show me a cop stepping on a white mans neck while people plead with him to stop …. until the man dies.

              I am not interested in stray bullet meant for gangster hits kid

            • Matthew Krajcik says:

              This one is from Canada, the Robert Dziekański Taser incident where the cops planned in advance to tase and stomp the guy: https://youtu.be/vT3vid3S-tw?t=431

            • Fast Eddy says:

              Dime a dozen … show me one where a copy put his boot on the neck of a man with people begging him to stop — and murdered the man.

              Otherwise stop with this rubbish. If I wanted this sort of thing I’d got directly to the Zero Hedge comments and read all the garbage from those losers.

              The great thing about Zero Hedge is the the losers who post there don’t hold back… they say exactly what Kim is thinking … but won’t post. He’ll dance around it but he will not say it.

            • GBV says:


              Is this what you are referring to?


              Regardless of the manner of death, it’s still the death that is important. If police went around nicely euthanizing thousands of whites, only to violently kill a black, we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that the overall number of whites who had died was still much higher.

              It reminds me of that book, Freakonomics, where they point out how parents are far more willing to allow their kids to go over to a friend’s place to swim in the pool than to go to a friend’s place where firearms are present in the home… this, despite the fact that statistics show their child is far more likely to drown to death than to be shot and killed.

              Emotion before logic has consequences…


          • Yorchichan says:


            No video. Guess someone forgot to switch on his bodycam (again).

          • I try to allow two sides to every story to be posted. I would hope that there would not be an attack on Kim if his viewpoint is different from yours.

        • This is a very divisive topic.

          I do not think any commenter should be insulting another commenter. There are two views on this subject. I allow different views to be aired.

    • Fast Eddy says:

      7.99999 Billion People are Obeying Orders…..

  9. Herbie R Ficklestein says:

    Yo, Double Down or Nothing…Go for BROKE….
    Japan Doubles Down to Deliver World’s ‘Biggest’ Stimulus Package
    Yuko Takeo and Takashi Hirokawa
    BloombergMay 27, 2020, 7:15 AM EDT
    Japan Doubles Down to Deliver World’s ‘Biggest’ Stimulus Package
    (Bloomberg) — Prime Minister Shinzo Abe doubled Japan’s stimulus measures as he looked to deliver on his bold promise to keep businesses and households afloat with the world’s biggest virus-response package.
    His cabinet approved Wednesday a 117 trillion yen ($1.1 trillion) set of measures that includes financing help for struggling companies, subsidies to help firms pay rent and several trillion yen for health care assistance and support for local economies. The spending will be funded by a second supplementary budget that breaks a record for an extra budget set only last month.
    The latest aid was finalized after data last week confirmed Japan has sunk into a deep recession and polls showed support for Prime Minister Abe’s cabinet dropping to a fresh low over its handling of the outbreak. Apparently sensing the need to do more, Abe vowed on Monday to bring the tally of measures to around 40% of gross domestic product.
    “We are determined to protect the Japanese economy,” said Abe’s deputy, Taro Aso, after the cabinet approved the latest extra budget. “We are facing a crisis that goes beyond the scale of the Lehman shock.

    Won’t be long before folks lose faith…..

    • Japan’s governmental debt has long been the highest in the world. This would seem to add to it.

    • Tim Groves says:

      “We have to destroy that economy by bombing it with helicopter money in order to save it,” said PM Abe. 🙂

      Every citizen and foreign resident including children in Japan with a visa longer that three months is going to get a 100,000 yen present within the next couple of weeks. By my abacus, that adds up to about 12,5 trillion yen. Meanwhile small businesses and self employed workers who can show that their income has dropped by half or more any month this year can apply for a one-time subsidy from the central government of 2 million yen for small companies and 1 million yen for individuals to help tide them over their temporary inconvenience due to the state of emergency so we can all go on spending and Make Japan Great Again!

      Does this mean we’re going to be saved, or is this like a special treat kind people give a tired old sick pet dog or cat the night before putting them to sleep?

      Either way, this is the first time helicopter money has been poured directly into ordinary people’s bank accounts in japan on anything like this scale. It reminds me of an injection of adrenaline into the heart of corpse to try to get the thing beating again. But at least ordinary people will spend it on things they find useful or essential in daily life, rather than building bridges and tunnels to nowhere with it.

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