Back in January 2013, the US Institute of Medicine published a report called U.S. Health in International Perspective: Shorter Lives, Poorer Health. This poor health outcome for US citizens is in spite of the US spending twice as much as a percentage of GDP on healthcare as other high-income nations.
As an example of the problems the US has, the report showed the following exhibit, pointing out that the US has made much smaller advances in life expectancy since 1980 than other high-income nations. The US is now seventeenth of the seventeen countries analyzed in male life expectancy, and sixteenth out of seventeenth in female life expectancy.
I am sure I do not know all of the reasons for the US divergence from patterns seen elsewhere, but let me try to explain one energy-related reason for our problems. It has to do with a need to get a wide variety of nutrients at the same time we need to balance (Energy In) = (Energy Needed for Life Processes), in a period of time when the food we eat is increasingly of the “processed” variety. There may also be an issue of eating too much animal protein in our food mix, thanks to today’s ability to ramp up meat production using grains grown and shipped around the world, using fossil fuels.
An Overview of Energy-Related Modifications to Food
If we look at primates in general, it is pretty clear that all of the nutrients such animals need come prepackaged in the food that they gather with their limbs. They get the level of exercise they need from gathering this food and from their other daily activities. They have a pretty good balance between (Energy In) = (Energy Needed for Life Processes), without any special effort.
We humans have been modifying food for a very long time, dating back to the days of being hunter-gatherers. Our earliest changes were successful from the point of making humans more dominant. They allowed us to grow larger brains and allowed human population to grow.
The changes made in recent years, thanks to abundant fossil fuels, seem to be excessive, however. The new processed foods are often missing necessary nutrients and fiber, providing mostly empty calories. It becomes a balancing act to get enough of the right nutrients without filling our bodies with calories we don’t need. Some foods (juices, added sugars, very finely ground grains) are sufficiently different from natural foods that our systems don’t react properly to such food. Also, the exercise our body was expecting is often much reduced.
The way our current system works, the food that is closest to its original form is hardest to ship and store, so tends to be highest-priced. The most calorie-dense, over-processed food tends to be cheapest. As a result, the least-educated people (who tend to be poorest) tend to be most damaged by our poor food supply. According to one study, at age twenty-five, men with less than a high school education have a sixteen-year shorter life expectancy than men with a graduate degree.
Of course, at least part of the problem is the disproportionate lack of health care of less-educated US citizens. There are no doubt effects related to feeling like second-class citizens as well, because of reduced work-opportunities for those with poor educations. But having to work around a poor food system with an inadequate income is an issue that likely plays a major role as well.
How Did Humans Develop Larger Brains?
There is a popular belief that eating meat made us human. While meat eating may have played a role, there seem to be other factors as well. National Geographic in an article in the September 2014 issue, The Evolution of Diet, observes that modern day hunter-gatherers typically get about 30% of their calories from meat. When meat supplies are scarce, they often live for long periods on a plant-based diet. The article says, “New studies suggest that more than a reliance on meat in ancient human diets fueled the brain’s expansion.”
The point National Geographic mentions is the one I have brought up previously–the theory advanced by Richard Wrangham in Catching Fire: How Cooking Made Us Human. It seems to be the ability to control of fire, allowing humans to burn biomass, which set us apart from other primates. This allowed us to cook food, and in doing so, allowed the food to be more easily chewed and digested. Reduced chewing time freed up time for other activities, such as making tools. Nutrients could be more easily absorbed from cooked food. The fact that the food was easier to chew and digest allowed chewing and digestive systems to shrink, and brains to increase in size. It probably also made it easier for more human children to survive.
Furthermore, we now know that some other primates eat meat, so humans are not unique in this regard. Chimpanzees even hunt animals for their meat. National Geographic reports that baboons eat birds, rodents, and even the young of larger mammals, such as antelopes and sheep. But meat makes up only a small share of their diet. We also know that when monkeys are fed a diet that includes very much meat, they gain weight and experience degenerative diseases like humans.
Food Processing: A Little of a Good Thing vs. Too Much of Good Thing
The experience with cooking some food back in hunter-gatherer days shows that a little help in getting more nutrition from foods can be helpful. Plant cell walls are made of cellulose. Cooking vegetables helps break down these cell walls, making nutrients more accessible. There are other ways of processing food–pounding meat to make it more tender or using a blender to chop it into fine pieces. Humans have been milling grains for a very long time.
But it is easy to overdo the processing of food, especially with the help of fossil fuels. Grains can be ground very finely, far more finely they would have been ground, years ago. Sweeteners of various types can be derived from sugar cane, sugar beets, and corn, and added to products of many types. Parts of fruits and vegetables that are deemed “less desirable” such as skins can be removed, even if these parts have a disproportionate share of the nutrients in them.
There is even a second order kind of change to the food supply that can be put in place. For example, before recent “improvements,” cattle ate a mixture of grasses and digested them in their four-part stomachs that are designed from that purpose. Now cattle are being fed all kinds of foods that are not suitable for their digestive systems, including corn and dried distillers grain, a byproduct of making ethanol from corn. There are many other shortcuts taken, from hormones to antibiotics, so as to produce more meat at less expense. Our bodies aren’t necessarily adapted all of these changes. For one thing, there is much more fat in the beef, and for another, the ratio of Omega 3 fatty acids to Omega 6 fatty acids is badly skewed.
There is the additional issue of whether plants actually contain the nutrients that they did years ago. Many of us have learned Liebig’s Law of the Minimum, which states that plant growth is not controlled by total amount of resources available, but by the scarcest resource. In other words, a plant needs all of its nutrients–just adding more of the most abundant nutrient isn’t good enough. But Liebig’s Law of the Minimum doesn’t remove all deviations in nutrient quantity. Plants will still grow, even if some of the trace elements are present in smaller than the usual quantities. Adding fertilizer (or even crop rotation) does not entirely fix this situation. We still end up with soil that is deficient in some micronutrients. This situation tends to get worse with time, as our sewer systems send human wastes out to sea.
In recent years, we have been hearing more about the role intestinal bacteria play. The processing of our food is especially likely to remove the less digestible portions of our food that these bacteria depend on for their nutrition. This adds yet another dimension to the problem of food that deviates from what our bodies are expecting us to eat.
Thanks to fossil fuels, processing of all kinds is cheap. So is adding sugar, artificial colors and artificial flavors to help cover up deficiencies in the original crop. The shortcuts farmers take, including heavy use of fertilizers and pesticides, are ways to produce food more cheaply. The food we end up with is inexpensive and convenient, but doesn’t necessarily match up well with what human digestive systems are adapted to.
What Kind of Exercise Do We Need?
The story I keep reading is that we need a certain amount of high-intensity intermittent exercise to help our bodies operate as they are intended to. Running for even an average of five or ten minutes a day is said to reduce cardiac causes of death by 30% to 45%, and to increase overall life expectancy by three years. We can easily imagine that hunter-gatherers quite often needed to sprint from time to time, either to avoid predators or to catch potential prey. The finding that human beings need short bursts of high intensity exercise, such as running, would seem to be consistent with what our ancestors did. We also can’t sit for long periods–something our ancestors didn’t do either.
How about strength training? One thing that occurred to me when I visited India is how unnatural it is to have chairs to sit on. Much of the world’s population, even today, sits on the ground when they want to sit down. Needless to say, people who don’t sit on chairs get up from the floor many times a day. This is a type of fitness training that we in this country miss. We in the West also don’t squat much–another type of fitness training.
Even with the beneficial effects of exercise, some researchers today believe that food plays a more important role than exercise in obesity. (Obesity is linked to ill health and shorter life expectancies.) A recent study by Herman Pontzer and others compared the energy expenditure of the Hazda hunter-gatherers to Westerners. The study found that average daily energy expenditure of traditional Hazda foragers was no different from that of Westerners, after controlling for body size. The body seemed to compensate for higher energy expenditure at times, with lower energy expenditure at other times.
Conclusion
It seems to me that our appetites don’t work correctly when we fill ourselves with overly processed foods that are lacking for essential nutrients. We often don’t stop eating soon enough, and then we quickly feel hungry again. In part this may be from eating highly processed foods that would never be found in nature; in part it may be because the foods are missing the micronutrients and fiber that our bodies are expecting. Low-income people especially have a problem with such diets, since diets rich in fruits and vegetables are more expensive.
Many people believe doctors can fix our health problems. Looking across countries, diet and public health issues tend to be much more important than the medical care system in the health of a population. With most chronic health conditions, doctors can only take bad health situations and make them somewhat better. High rates of illness and increased mortality remain, similar to what we see in the United States.
Many of us have heard about the so-called calorie restriction diets of monkeys. This is a misnomer, in my view. In at least one version of it, it is a comparison of monkeys fed a low calorie diet that provides a wide range of nutrients found in vegetables, with a diet typical of Americans. If, in fact, we humans also need a wide range of nutrients found in vegetables, we should not be surprised if we have similarly poor health outcomes.
According to the graphic, Owen, 26, is affected by arthritis. His skin is wrinkled and his hair is falling out. He is frail and moves slowly. His blood work shows unhealthy levels of glucose and triglycerides. Canto, 25, is aging fairly well.
I personally have been eating a diet that is close to vegetarian for twenty years (heavy on vegetables, fruits and nuts; some fish and diary products; meat only as flavoring in soups). I also cut way back on processed foods and foods with added sugar or corn by-products. When I first changed my diet, I had a problem with arthritis and was concerned that I was at high risk for Type II diabetes. I lost weight, and my arthritis disappeared, as did my blood sugar problems. In fact, I rarely have reason to visit a doctor. In many ways, I feel like Owen on the right.
As I pointed out at the beginning of the post, we need to get a wide variety of nutrients at the same time we need to balance (Energy In) = (Energy Needed for Life Processes). Back in hunter-gatherer days, this was easy to do, but it is increasingly difficult to do today. Besides cutting back on processed foods, eating a diet that is low in meat may be a way of doing this. Studies of people who eat mostly vegetarian diets show that they tend to have longer life spans. There is also direct evidence that diets that are higher in animal protein tend to shorten life spans. These findings don’t necessarily correlate with studies of what works best for losing weight, which is what most people are concerned about in the short term. Thus, we are deluged with a lot of confusing findings.
Food and health problems are issues that tend to strike a nerve with a lot of people. I can’t claim to be an expert in this area. But stepping back and looking at the issue more broadly, as I have tried to do in this article, can perhaps add some new perspectives.
Rape Culture in the Alaskan Wilderness
In the tight-knit communities of the far north, there are no roads, no police officers—and higher rates of sexual assault than anywhere else in the United States.
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/09/rape-culture-in-the-alaskan-wilderness/379976/
So much for singing koombaya while being warmed by the solar panels when the collapse comes…. keep in mind this is what is happening when there is still a functioning government and economy ….
As much as we like to think the opposite — we are without question a vile species —- so if this is any indication you can expect the worst once law and order disappears — along with food sources.
Rape and murder will be commonplace — got a farm? — good luck keeping the hordes out….
I suspect things will get very messy….
Lots of tundra, lots of shovels, and lots of people with unique problem solving skills up north. AK has probably the highest percentage of genuine humans of anyplace in the world. Good luck AK! Youve got a good shot!
This really has nothing to do with Alaska rather the reason I posted it is to point out that there is no such thing as a noble savage… the second that the veneer of civilization is rubbed off … we tend to quickly revert to our brutish nature…
When collapse comes expect this — and 1000 times worse — because in these communities there may be no police — and you might get away with rape — but the gloves have not come completely off — you most certainly could not get away with murder and other heinous crimes — because the authorities on high would draw the line somewhere…
Going forward there will be no authorities… so anything will go …
You want models of how things are likely to break down? Look at Haiti where gangs in the camps run the show – or see Afghanistan after the US left in the 80’s – you couldn’t walk down your street without paying money to the local warlord — ironically the law and order that came out of that was the Taliban — as bad as they turned out they were a huge improvement on what was there before them…
This is going to get ugly – fast. Don’t think just because you are amongst ‘civilized white folk’ that you are any safer…. When collapse comes and civilization unravels… and there is no food to be had… might will prevail…
It all has to do with human density. We have a large land area and a very small density of human beings. Paul is correct that we are the rape and suicide capital of the world (have not heard the same for murder and doubt it) but most of those statistics are generated out of the Native villages which are mired in a hopeless cycle of alcohol, drugs, welfare and loss of cultural identity. Otherwise, Alaska is filled with amazing problem solvers with creative energy, who are used to doing things for themselves with a central government that is 5000 miles away. If the growing season lengthens enough (which it appears to be doing thanks to climate change) and I can grow wheat, it’ll be a paradise.
InAlaska, I believe in what you’re saying.
You forgot to mention Sarah Palin, though. Wise people do not choose this kind of people for governors. The whole image is always a little more complex.
Yikes, kesar, I forgot all about Sarah. Geez, you’re right. I take it all back!
Alaska is a really fine place to live whether you are preparing for survival or just interested in the natural world. If too many humans on earth is the problem, if population overshoot is the problem, then finding a livable place with low human density per square mile is important. Alaska has 1.2 human beings per square mile, compared to say, Indonesia, which has 323 humans per square mile. Alaska is also blessed with incredibly talented people who are used to doing without government, and solving their own problems.
Population density is definitely an issue — particularly in some areas of Indonesia..
I am off to the north part of the South Island of New Zealand in a couple of weeks to have a look around as we have hotel developers sniffing about here and the market is on the boil…
Its hard to imagine new hotels going up anywhere anymore. Is Bali still a growing tourist mecca, or has the economy started to falter?
Lots of building activity happening here — in spite of the fact that there are apparently twice as many rooms as is required based on current tourism numbers… And tourism continues to boom along…
A great deal of the inbound money is coming from Jakarta — Indonesia has ridden the commodity boom feeding off of China’s massive stimulus projects… also there is a lot of money laundering happening as the wealthy look to put their corruption cash into real assets…
Bali is one of the places where property asset values have been massively impacted by QE…
A must-read article from one of the best investigative reporters around, Andrew Nikiforuk at The Tyee. It’s about healthcare and Ebola and touches on many of the points raised by Gail and the commenters here:
http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2014/09/10/Ebola-Outbreak-Hot-Zone/
The following is a quote from shortonoil from the hills group, that I’m pasting here from peak oil.
“Credit were credit is due; Gail Tverberg several months ago wrote an article where she stated that from her determination oil price could not exceed about $100/barrel. I don’t think anyone took her seriously at the time, including us. I think we will have confirmation of her appraisal in a few weeks. We will then eat a little crow, and then apologize.”
http://www.thehillsgroup.org/
Congrats Gail!
Saudis are cuting 400k barrels now as there appears to be glut on the market, full tankers are anchored off the market like in 2008/9. Imagine, permanent trends like the flatlining/saturation of construction boom in China, less car sales (of higher mpg) in the west and the general trend among young of buddying up shared living, no car etc. Voila you have got demand destruction righ there and extension of the PO plateau for more years. Plus banksters already demonstrated their power of papering over the possible capex issues within the energy sector. It’s all pushing the day of reckoning more and more into distance. Quite easy to understand, those people just want to debauch as long as possible, enjoy their status and richmans’ toys to the fullest orgy.
Links to comments you mentioned:
http://peakoil.com/consumption/international-energy-agency-slashes-oil-demand-outlook
http://peakoil.com/consumption/if-oil-prices-stay-low-for-long-putin-and-opec-are-headed-for-trouble
Oldie but goodie, chinese q42013 analysis and prediction of todays stagflation:
http://english.caixin.com/2013-12-30/100623528.html?p1
Good reads and thanks!
That’s where P.O. people are looking to the wrong direction, as Gail pointed out many times. It is not lack of oil reserves which is the problem, but not enough demand to keep up prices and therefore incentive to produce expensive oil. Big part of demand was supported by all the easy credit. The world economy wants to contract, but they throw erverything at it to prevent that.
I am assuming the issue is lack of growth and slowing demand for oil that is causing this glut — it is very clear that China is lying about their GDP numbers… as are most countries…
But regardless of what the cause is — low priced oil is not a good thing — because it means oil companies will not invest in new exploration — it also means that shale and tar sands — which require oil at minimum price levels — go broke if oil drops too much.
Of course oil anywhere near the levels are we seeing is killing economic growth…
HIGH PRICED OIL DESTROYS GROWTH
According to the OECD Economics Department and the International Monetary Fund Research Department, a sustained $10 per barrel increase in oil prices from $25 to $35 would result in the OECD as a whole losing 0.4% of GDP in the first and second years of higher prices. http://www.iea.org/textbase/npsum/high_oil04sum.pdf
Yep, again quoting from those links the most interesting part about decreasing energy content of usable reserves vs. production costs and consumer affordability:
“Our model has predicted all along that non-conventional would be phased out before conventional. Its per unit production costs is much higher. The model also predicted that the world’s usable reserve, as of 2012, was 73% depleted. That was based on its per unit energy content. What it did not give us was the point at which the consumer could no longer afford oil.”
The figure of Life Expectancy at Birth is interesting also from the point of view of immigrant population.
We can see that immigrant population (foreign born) is simmilar in the US and other countries included in the figure:
http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/brookings-now/posts/2013/09/what-percentage-us-population-foreign-born
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Germany
This can mean that this phenomenom of lower life expectancy in the US is not caused by the immigrant population and its habits brought from home countries, but rather by the quality of the food.
(Recently, I have attended a wedding in Slovakia, where a family (mother, father and two daughters) was present among the guests that I immediately identified it as being from the US. The bad food makes people look very unhealthy. There are surely some other distinctive signs besides the obesity or the look of the skin.)
The transportation of the food especially in the US is inevitable. And also the costs of food production rise. How to preserve low prices of food when the price of oil goes up?
1. Lowering the quality of the food.
2. Building new food growing capacities closer to agglomerations or within them.
Currently, one of the producers of tomatoes is building the biggest and the most advanced glasshouses in the former Czechoslovakia in the area where I live, i. e. in the heart of the most industrial area (valley) of Slovakia where 3 car factories produce about 1 000 000 cars per year.
http://www.tvpovazie.sk/index.php/prehlad-sprav/business/item/3604-raj%C4%8Diny-v-kameni%C4%8Danoch
These glasshouses will use electricity and heat from the neighbouring biogas plant, catch rain water for watering and the tomatoes should be grown without the use of chemicals.
The biogas plant is, of course dependent on oil, could not exist without it, but we can clearly see the trend of cutting the use of oil in this project as regards the production and the transportation of the food.
in fundamental terms we have unevolved paleolithic brains (ie–eat as much as you can as fast as you can before something eats you), stuck in 21st century bodies.
We certainly have a lot of people who can’t see though what marketing people are doing to us–and how little value some of the food we are being offered really has.
Dear Gail and All
This comment addresses the action which certain individuals can take to break the addiction to industrial food. Thus, it focuses on the individual or family as opposed to the national government. It is also aimed at those who understand that they have an addiction and wish they did not. Thus, it is not aimed at people who are eating junk food and loving it. Although I will describe this in terms of food, the lessons are applicable to any bad habit such as addictions to drugs or alcohol or to evasion of activities such as exercise.
So…if you fall into the category of someone who would like to change, then I recommend Kelly McGonigal’s CD set titled The Neuroscience of Change: A Compassion Based Program for Personal Transformation. The set is available from SoundsTrue.com.
Kelly is at Stanford, and combines some rather unusual perspectives. She is a PhD health psychologist, very well versed in many areas of neuroscience, a practicing meditator, and yoga instructor and practitioner.
I won’t try to describe everything that is in the CDs, but perhaps a very brief description of sections 4 and 5 may be helpful. In Section 4: The Challenge of Changing Habits, she discusses how it comes about that so many people find themselves in front of an open refrigerator reaching for a snack when they are not hungry and can’t recall having decided to go to the refrigerator. Or to stop at the doughnut shop on the way home from a bad day at work. Kelly uses the Thinking Fast and Thinking Slow model of Daniel Kahneman. Most of the things we do follow simple stimulus/ response patterns. If we have learned that eating a snack relieves our boredom, then the feeling of boredom leads directly to the response of going to the fridge for a snack. If we have learned that a doughnut relieves the distress caused by a conflict with the boss, then we go directly to the doughnut shop on the way home from work. We do not think rationally about either decision. Both decisions are made in the inner brain where decisions and actions which are vital to life occur. The frontal parts of the brain which are more reflective and are able to balance goals and values with short term actions are quieted by the stress hormones created by the boredom or the turmoil at the office.
Consequently, if you want to stop the snacking and the stopping for doughnuts and other fast food, you must break the habit which results from the action of stress hormones operating on our brain structure and activating previously learned habits. That is what Section 4 is all about. (Of course, if you see snacking and doughnuts as health food, then you won’t be interested.)
In Chapter 5: Creating New Habits, she tells us how to make new, good habits to replace the bad habits. As a simple example suppose that the new habit to replace the stop at the doughnut shop is to stop at the park for a walk along the brook and to look for birds to add to your birding list. Suppose, as someone told me decades ago, the cure for boredom is to ‘turn off the TV and reach for your sweetie instead of a sweet’.
Kelly triangulates frequently between the latest neuroscience discoveries and ancient wisdom traditions. She avoids the dogmatism that sometimes dogs (pun intended) the teachers in the wisdom traditions who have little knowledge of science, and she draws from the rich heritage of wisdom tradition practices when those are helpful to navigate what science tells us about how our brain and mind operate.
Don Stewart
The usual explanation about US counter performance on life expectancy is simple :
* obesity
* inequalities
US is the starting point of the worldwide obesity pandemic.
US inequalities are at the level of a third world country. (rich but inequal = poor and inequal in term of life expectancy, wheras poor and equal is closer to rich and equal – cf Richard Wilkinson work)
Is cheap oil behind ? yes. I recommend reading of “toxic” by William Reymond a great book about junk food and obesity.
I agree with what you are saying here all the way. Sometimes I eatsweet, cokies , meat weekly, doyoga and tai chi. Physical flexibility and strength plus aerobis, I.e. heart, lung capacity important. I feel better as I increase and improve my routine. I even become more mentally focused and spiritualy aware, receiving inspiration of sudden ideas, cumulating less from logical but more from subconscious data bringing “aha” moment. This is organizational principle that is important in human development.
Wooo! Talk about careening comments
I live in Australia, that country with unequaled environmental policies in the hands of the current government.
I’m not too sure I would link energy very strongly to US healthcare costs. I see the drivers being more in the area of out-of control lobbying and marketing.
Time-obesity maps paint a disturbing picture of the obesity epidemic gripping the US, although other countries, such as Australia are not immune. Christopher Gardner at Stanford University has described this beautifully in a diet studies presentation on YouTube.
There are essentially two independent drivers:
The first is the food industry selling into an essentially static captive market where the population rise rate is far lower than that of corporate profit expectations. Profits can only be increased by sales volume, principally that of manufactured (processed) foods forced onto an an all-too-gullible public. The assault is from all angles, overwhelming those poorly equipped to resist.
The other side is a medical system that almost universally puts profit ahead of health and well being. The combination of soft target health funds and over servicing conspires to make US medical care easily the world’s most expensive, while it and the food industry are delivering truly awful health outcomes.
I am afraid you are very close to right. Energy does play a role, but it is the tool that the food industry uses and the medical care system uses toward their ends. When corporate profits come first, citizens seem to come out behind.
On the subject of general observations, what’s up with this nonsense about blaming neo-cons for current foreign affairs? My theory is that people who are outraged by US/EU policy are similar to those who successfully break away from religious cults. That is, there is a lot of resentment, bitterness and disillusionment once they are free of the overbearing propaganda.
But in this instance, the cult was one of a secular nature, the promise of a benevolent state controlled by democratic institutions that reflected the will of the People and acted in the best interests of the aggregate majority. LOL. Shit, no wonder you’re upset; I guess I would be too if I had been so foolish to ever believe the lies in the first place.
Here’s a newsflash: the US/West has always acted as a predatory state – they represent the very definition of colonialism, imperialism, militarism & nationalism. Every war of conquest, every broken treaty, every false promise – dating back to the early 1600s – have been purposely duplicitous in order to engender political & commercial success.
That the current regime publicly embraces silly concepts like self-determination, respect for borders, etc, etc are merely code words that reveal the truth for those who know history. To blame some current crop of policy mavens is to completely misunderstand the nature of the US/West. It’s why Japan jumped on the bandwagon back during Meiji period – they recognized the genius behind the subterfuge and wanted a piece of the action.
So here’s a public plea: Gail writes a great blog; perhaps the best on the ‘net. Don’t you think it deserves corresponding level of commentary? It would be great if there were more ‘Foreign Affairs’ aware people and less secular cult members.
the neocons arekinda suspect because they said they needed a new pearl harbor to get their project started, then they got into power, then their new pearl harbor happened
they’ve said they intend to establish “benevolent global hegemony” and “ful spectrum dominance” and they’ve spent the thriteen years since 9/11 proving they mean business
9/11 caused massive support for the neocons’ PNAC project, which was exactly why the neocns needed a new pearl harbor… 9/11 did exactly what it was intended to do
well, boys will be boys, and ity wouldnt make much differrence except we’re wasting trillions of doolars and megatons of good will on this PNAC project
that money and good will should have been spent on oreparing for peak oi
B9K9
You are implying that imperialism is a fact of government, as death and taxes are facts of life. I don’t think history support you claim. Anyway, the euro-american imperialism is not hated and hateful because it roots in deception, it is hateful and hated because it make paupers and kills people worlwide, since the XVI century. And to rob and kill people (outside of self-defense) is considered morally bad.
Though I have never believed in capitalist, stalinist, nationalist or imperialist propaganda, I always managed to get furious with its politics. How do you fit this in your theory of “ressentment” and “disillusionment”?
I guess your real politik life-is-tough-and-ever-was approach derives mainly from the simple fact that you are (like me) a net beneficiary of imperialism. But benefits have nothing to do with truth, and even less with ethics, right?
@JMS writes “Euro-american imperialism is not hated and hateful because it roots in deception, it is hateful and hated because it make paupers and kills people worldwide, since the XVI century. And to rob and kill people (outside of self-defense) is considered morally bad.”
It’s difficult, if not impossible, to discriminate between satire and sincerity on the ‘net. On one hand, I fear I’m being royally punked, whereas on the other, I get the sense you might actually believe what you write. If that’s the case, may I perhaps suggest an alternative nursery level forum, kumbuya.org? On this site, topics like 20:1 die-off are commonly discussed within the context of energy shortfalls without the passion of a college type debating society that you appear to crave.
As to your first critique, that is exactly my point. Hitler wasn’t hated because he employed the same techniques & engaged in the same genocide as every Western empire, he was despised because he was so crude. Nazi Germany simply didn’t seem to appreciate that the rubes need their lies neatly packaged in order to feel good about themselves. As such, they could never be allowed to join the colonial club because they weren’t “our type”.
As to your second, please refer to my opening; anyone who uses “morally bad” within the context of nation-states is probably not quite ready to discuss the types of subject matter Gail/commentary tends to cover. Or, to quote Kissinger when it was reported that one of his underlings was lecturing the new Chilean government on human rights abuses after the overthrow of Allende, “cut out the political science lectures”. In other words, concepts like ethics, morality,
good/bad are artificial constructs created – and enforced – to empower nation-states & their owners to disenfranchise individuals.
“But benefits have nothing to do with truth, and even less with ethics, right?”
Exactly – I do believe you’re beginning to see the big picture. US/Western society is based on the fundamental equation of taking resources from others – by force if need be – so that we may enjoy a better, more comfortable life. If you stand in the way, and oppose the status quo, you will be neutralized. Now, coming to this realization, you have a couple of options: (a) complain bitterly and pine for the day that cosmic retribution strikes down the evil doers; or (b) understand that all life forms compete in similar fashion. Humans, with all their complex rules and psychological games, are really no different from a new lion pride male who kills the former’s cubs.
The US/West have developed the most effective system ever experienced to defeat others competing for the same scarce resources. If you want to live a comfortable life, then you should study & understand how it works, why it works, and position yourself accordingly to reap the rewards.
I can’t really discuss with you these topics, because my English is terrible and to me it’s too much an effort to put a sentence together. But I don’t resist commenting some of your self-conceited and gratuitous remarks.
You say: “Hitler wasn’t hated because he employed the same techniques & engaged in the same genocide as every Western empire, he was despised because he was so crude. Nazi Germany simply didn’t seem to appreciate that the rubes need their lies neatly packaged in order to feel good about themselves. As such, they could never be allowed to join the colonial club because they weren’t “our type”.
You are wrong. Maybe Hitler was DESPISED for his crudeness, but he was HATED (and fought and defeated) because he wanted to kill “us” or enslaves “us”. And you are wrong again when absurdly imply that the Nazis had little understanding of lies. As far as I know, Goebbels was a propaganda expert and, as such, a great source of inspiration for the masterminds of american politics in the last 60 years.
You say: “concepts like ethics, morality, good/bad are artificial constructs created – and enforced – to empower nation-states & their owners to disenfranchise individuals.”
Yes, these concepts were created by man. But do you know any concept that wasn’t? I don’t. Yes, they are “artificial”, but I guess that concepts like “bad” and “ethics” are so artificial as “friendship”, “individuals” or “mathematics”. And, since homo sapiens always lived in artificial (aka technical) conditions, I don’t understand your morally charged use of the word “artificial”. Yes, they are a “construct”, but every theory is a construct. You use of “concept”, “artificial” and “construct” proves nothing.
You say: “US/Western society is based on the fundamental equation of taking resources from others – by force if need be”. I completely agree with that. But maybe you are confusing history with biology and “competitiveness” with “human nature”. All human societies are driven by survival instincts. And when resources diminish, war is guaranteed. On the other hand, H. sapiens is fundamentally a social species, it evolved through cooperation, and it can’t survive without some degree of compromise. With diminishing returns and ressource scarcity, the issue now is cooperation or die-off. The the ideal (or construct) of cooperation was completely destroyed by the individualistic mindset (or construct) that the capitalist rulers reinforced on their human sheep since XVIII century. So, I wish for cooperation, but what I foresee is brutal competition and die-off.
You say: “If you want to live a comfortable life, then you should study & understand how it works, why it works, and position yourself accordingly to reap the rewards.”
To live a comfortable was never a priority for me. I always want to live a moral, a intellectual and a free live. And till now I managed it. The rule is: never trade freedom for goods, or your time for money. But comfort, like hope, is a thing of the past. The future will be very uncomfortable for everybody. In the meantime, there’s two options: watch the show in a partying spirit (yours) or watch it in a emotional wheel of fury-pity-ataraxia (mine). Finally, it seems the difference between you and me is that you, like Kissinger, are a cynic of the modern kind. I always preferred the ancient cynicism, a la Diogenes. I suppose you know the difference between them, otherwise, try a look at Peters Sloterjdike’s “Critique of Cynical Reason”.
One thing B9K9 seems to not understand is that he only leads a ‘comfortable life’ because many people throughout the ages did not accept the boot on their necks…..
They fought and were thrown in dungeons — tortured — murdered because they were trying to impose some sorts of checks on the vilest impulses of the worst of those amongst us.
Of course they did not succeed but without a doubt they did make some impact — they did force the PTB to spread a little of the bounty around.
And here we are in a situation where the relative freedoms we have are being stripped away setting the stage for a global totalitarian nightmare (not only the NSA is spying….)
What troubles me is that you seem to be fascinated by what is happening — your position appears to be never rock the boat — just work with the system and you can lead a comfortable life…
It’s time to revisit a famous quote:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
If everyone had your attitude (actually most affluent people do — and the rest are mostly too stupid to realize that they are digging their own graves by remaining apathetic and ignorant) then those living comfortable lives might soon find their lives not so comfortable.
I am with you on one thing — we are a vile species — but if we do not draw the line somewhere — we’ll be the ones in the dungeons — and when that happens it will be too late to do anything about it.
Because once you lose the freedoms you have enjoyed — you will find it is much more difficult to get them back than it is to keep them in the first place.
If anyone wants a stark reminder of what life is like under the beast I highly recommend http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59661.Shah_of_Shahs (keep in mind the Shah was an American Deep State creation — do you think they would not do the same to the people of the US if they felt it was necessary?)
Paul, we fundamentally disagree on the effectiveness of protest. I believe that throughout the history of civilized man, the score still stands at -0- for the masses. And the reason for that is quite basic: the losers are simply not as intelligent as the smart n’ savvy.
Of sure, every generation produces some spokespeople for the “downtrodden”, but that’s just an anomaly. By all rights, given different circumstances, they would/should have been properly ensconced in their appropriate class. That’s why they always become frustrated when they finally realize who they’ve been fighting for.
As for your little ditty, that’s just another invention by those on the outside of the establishment trying to rally disparate groups to form a cohesive whole. However, there’s a problem with that approach, as noted in the comments above: the masses lack intelligence, discipline, behavior, physical condition/appearance, etc, etc.
I also assert that concepts like morality & ethics are inventions created by the state to control and disempower individuals. You are a perfect example: one so deeply brainwashed in the essential goodness of man that you exhibit profound disgust in both mankind and his institutions once you discover the truth. If you could just reject your programming, you ‘d be able to clearly see the way the world works as the PTB.
My advice has been pretty consistent: figure out how the PTB operate and front run their initiatives. It’s actually quite simple; unlike every other profession, especially the sciences, governance is actually quite boring and re-uses the same exact plays over and over again, ad infinitum.
Complain away at will, but if you’re still on an educational glide path, then one day you awaken to your foolishness. In other words, all roads always lead to the same conclusion once your begin down the path of enlightenment.
On the contrary — protests have been effective many times in the past… there are many examples of how the Deep State was reined in …
Recall the American Revolution … as well the French Revolution…. those are two of the more extreme examples….
Of course the PTB are well aware of these attempts to control them — and they are clever fellas — so they learn from the past and try to make sure that next time around they don’t get toppled and replaced…
One example of this is how in the US you are put on a black list if you protest — if you are a student that could mean you will have a difficult time finding a job with a US corporation… this is a very effective weapon the arsenal of the Deep State… no need for dungeons …
Then we have Edward Snowden — he is causing a great deal of damage to the Deep State — that is why they want him silenced… likewise Assange…
So to say protest is completely futile is wrong — if it was futile then why are these two men seen as a threat at all?
I think it is because the Deep State has created a matrix — the matrix says that the US is fundamentally good — the MSM propagates this concept… the people buy into it — and the Deep State goes mostly unchallenged…
It truly is a brilliant system they have created — just look at the comments on this site — people have a love affair with the Deep State — it can do no wrong – sure you get the occasional Abu Ghraib gig that might make a few people question the matrix…. but overall the matrix holds…
But when men like Assange and Snowden give us a peak behind the curtain … they must be stopped… because if they release too much detail then the matrix might break — the haze of cognitive dissonance gets pierced and the masses start to cause problems for the Deep State…
And when that happens the Deep State can no longer hide in the shadows… their clever game of ‘democracy’ gets exposed … they can no longer claim to be ethical and good…. the people come to understand that this is all a sham…
Then the people go to the streets and demand real change because they realize it is not available at the voting booth… the people no longer buy the good cop bad cop crap — blame on the Dems – the Neocons… the liberals …. they connect the dots and start to put the blame on the puppet masters…
And that is when the fangs need to be unsheathed — that is when soft totalitarianism moves to hard totalitarianism… when the lie is exposed then the Deep State falls back on violence to maintain its position…
And they absolutely prefer not to do that — they prefer the vitriol be directed at the politicians — not at them.
Because as we have seen many times in the past — when the pitchforks come out the game is often up for that edition of the Deep State…
Clearly the Deep State sees the matrix is starting to crack – not so much because of Assange and Snowden — although I am sure their revelations have thrown fuel on the fire of negativity — but more so because the Deep State is unable to deliver the economic goods … which or course relates to the end of cheap oil…
You can control men with dungeons — but that doesn’t work so well when it comes to Mother Nature and her bounty…
Perhaps the funniest thing in B9K9’s views is that, apparently, he thinks cheerleading the PTB will save his life or guarantee his comfort. But the psychopats in charge don’t need cheerleaders, they need useful and obedient servants. The great era of sycophancy was the XVI century, with all those court painters and poets and Machiavelis. To the PTB of the next decade, the question will be: can this B9K9 guy pull out a tooth, grow potatoes, kill a looter without a trembling hand? If not, it will be bye-bye B9K9.
I guess you are describing the first stage, when the system will be trying to survive. Each state and its administration is maintained only by collection of the taxes in usual or other form. Gail many times pointed out that this will end sometime after the start of the collapse due to unavailability of resources and hence it will be impossible to keep the power/military/police/administration/communication network. The only PTB you have will be more and more local. After period of chaos, riots, possibly wars, revolutions, etc. the administration will have the form of local warlords or more democratic/tribal/village/small community government. The only question is how long this transitional period will last.
B9K9 isn’t suggesting that he’s cheerleading for the PTB, rather, once you figure them out, you can get in front of them and profit from them or stay out of their way. Your choice.
In Alaska,
No cheerleader? Then, guess who said, in this very page, the following: “trust me, it’s how the game plays out. That being so, it’s easy to merely position oneself to be the loudest cheerleader, the super patriot, the one defending ‘Merica against critics, etc, in order to enjoy a few more decades in relative prosperity as we cycle down to neo-fuedalism”
A self-styled cheeerleader, yes, and a very enthusiastic (and optimistic!) one.
Good one, jms. We don’t like people talking down to us, do we. They come across as nasty and superior. Your English is great. I understand it all.
B9K9 and others who understand international affairs.
For example, all of this nonsense talk about a war between the US and Russian over Ukraine. Give me a break. This will never come to pass. For 40 years we hovered at the edge of Mutual Assured Destruction and no one pushed the button. Russia, the US, the West, all of these are rational state actors pursuing their own independent strategic objectives. Sometimes these nations run together, sometimes they run alone. It doesn’t matter. The danger lies to the south. The danger is a nuclear-armed jihadist Pakistan, bat-shit crazy North Korea and proto-hegemonic nuclear Iran. These are the trigger points. China-North Korea, Iran-Pakistan-India. You’ve got 3-4 billion+ really hungry people and a bunch of aggressive jihadists, some with nukes. This is a recipe for a very bad neighborhood. This is where TSHTF. Not some chess game between Russia and the West. When things start going bad, Russia and the West will find that they have more in common with each other than they do with anyone else. That is Realpolitik.
Instead of a fighting war with Russia, the tendency is to try to retaliate financially against Russia. When we have a single world economy, and fairly near a “tipping point,” this is not a good idea. It might have been a good idea years ago, but we could all get hurt now, if (or maybe “when”) the world economy implodes.
I don’t disagree with you that a financial war would be pretty devastating to the world economy at these liminal times, but at least it won’t be nuclear hot..
People seem to have a serious difficulty with coming to grips with the fact that their prosperity is built on the back of acts of violence and pillaging that would make Tony Soprano blush.
No matter what the evidence to the contrary, they still believe that they are fundamentally good – that their leaders are well-intentioned.
Funny how many people are capable of understanding what is going on with respect to energy — but completely unable to see what is completely obvious — that their leaders are monsters who would kill a baby with their bare hands… if it meant another dollar in their pockets.
I suppose coming to grips with that reality would result in insanity for some.
Let’s test the waters with one of my favourite videos of all time …. get your Xanax ready…
Paul, no doubt, you are on the mark. I went to Washington DC several times at anti-war Iraq mass rallies before the invasion. The MSM gave us scant coverage at best. You are allowed “freedom” here as long as you don’t make a difference. Once you do, you are eliminated or neutralized. Seems Obama is continuing the “program”, more chaos, death and control, all in the name of “FREEDOM”.
I was flying over land at night and imagined all those lights and cars all dark and silent.
There is no way that this infrastructure can support the population with an ample petro supply. The Beast will not go down without a struggle.
Well, Paul, since this is a blog site about energy, oil, finite resources and NOT a blog site about America, I guess maybe you should stop nattering on about the Great Satan every time you post. Neh?
Paul, please continue….You are a beacon of LIGHT and do NOT let up on you exposure of America…the glutton, has 5% of the world’s population and gobbles up @25% of the world’s resources (directly or indirectly). Too bad the likes of some do not want to hear the TRUTH.
Whatever. Good grief. Who has any idea what the truth is. Grow up.
No doubt something YOU can’t bear to face. God Bless America….good grief
I have shown that the emperor is stark naked — yet there are those who continue to insist he is wearing the finest silk suit….
The matrix is very powerful … it is capable of convincing most people that 1+1 = 3… that black is green … that a circle is a square…. very very powerful!
I believe the administrators of the site (Gail – Jan) are responsible for making those decisions – not you.
You seem not to understand that American hegemony is driven primarily energy
Every war that they fight is in some way connected to ensuring the US pig is fed i.e. the masses get to continue to build mega mansions — and drive big fat SUVs…. that the people’s god given right to exceed 300 lbs by being able to gorge at the trough as often as they would like — and as cheaply as possible…
And therefore the discussion of how America acts on the global stage is very much relevant to this blog.
So I assume the administrators of the site will continue to permit my posts that reveal truths about America that apparently are confronting and disturbing to those who have drank the kool-aid and believe America is some sort of beacon of light in a dark world.
As an aside, have you ever encountered a situation where someone had a certain believe — and you put in front of them incontrovertible evidence that their position was totally wrong?
If so I expect that you will have noticed that most people will never admit they were wrong — rather they tend to dig in deeper
And because they are unable to argue against the evidence presented (because it is incontrovertible) — they tend to instead react with anger and even insults….
When this happens with children you can often observe that they will stick their index fingers into their ears and shout over and over ‘I can’t hear you – lalalalalalalalala’
Now one might get frustrated when faced with this sort of reaction…
Personally I don’t get frustrated — rather I am bemused when I see this….
Because it signals that the debate is over.
Hey, can you two play nice in the sandbox? Agree to disagree, “natter on” if you wish, but let’s stop at name-calling.
“you will have noticed that most people will never admit they were wrong”
I’ve noticed that people who are painted into a corner fight to the death. Give your opponent an out, and see how much more civil the dialogue becomes.
Absolute statements box people into corners. Try following your absolutist statements with a simple, “don’t you think?” and invite dialogue, rather than shutting it down.
I hear you Jan.
However when a country engages in epic brutality — creating failed states — and suffering beyond belief — plundering resources so that they can live large….because they for some reason deserve to live large at the expense of everyone else…
And the people of that country support these policies all the while insisting the country is a beacon of light in a world of darkness…
It’s a bit difficult to meet half way.
It’s kinda like when you encounter someone who says ‘there is no oil problem – we have enough oil for 100 years — because I saw that on CNN and read it in the NYT’ — and no matter what evidence you put in front of them they will not have it….
Jan,
I would love to “play nice” but ol’ Paul here just won’t pass on any opportunity to bash the United States, regardless of whether it is relevant to the conversation. Granted the US is not perfect, but his endless holier than thou-ax grinding is annoying and it distracts from the more productive aspects of this blog. I’ll step off for awhile.
IF its all about American wars for oil, Paul, you’ve never answered my question about why we voluntarily left Iraq??? Where is your TRUTH? Are your precious BRIC nations sending massive assistance to west Africa to fight ebola and build 17 ebola treatment centers??? There is always good mixed with evil. Your absolutism and extreme views demonstrate an immature view of the world.
As has been indicated previously by me and others — Iraq was most certainly about oil — as in Saddam was not going to be allowed to hold the world hostage with his few million barrels of day production — that oil was going to go onto the world market come hell or high water.
It does not matter which oil companies brought it onto the market — as I am sure you are aware all Big Oil companies are publicly floated — so to say Exxon is an American company is ludicrous — to say BP is British is wrong — their owners (shareholders) are everywhere — and they pay what little taxes they pay mostly to offshore entities.
But the important factor here is control — as we know conventional oil peaked in 2005 — the Deep State knew that was coming — as no doubt did Saddam… so he had to go… because he would have had the ability to wreak havoc by pulling his oil off the market.
For the same reasons, Putin is now under attack – because he is attempting to leverage his oil and gas to drag Europe from under the American sphere of influence into his. Putin is of course a different animal than Saddam… and he has some powerful allies including China.
That said, many US companies benefited handsomely from the Iraq War:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v215/waymjoh/Haliburton_Stock_Price_Since_War.gif
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/03/10/10-companies-profiting-most-from-war/1970997/
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7f435f04-8c05-11e2-b001-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3DRuyqelP
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/25/iraq-war-profiteers-25-co_n_115004.html
As for Ebola don’t you just love that PR — America is currently robbing Africa blind establishing military bases all over the place in Africa making sure a good chunk of African resources get to the 5% who pillage 25% of the bounty of the planet… (hmmm… where are those 5% residing)
Let’s try a google search so I can support what I am saying… how about ‘companies that benefit looting africa resources….
Ta da!!!
Aid to Africa: donations from west mask ‘$60bn looting’ of continent
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2014/jul/15/aid-africa-west-looting-continent
Did you ever think that if America (and its allies) were not robbing Africans and installing complaint dictators that some of the billions of dollars of profits coming out of that continent might instead of going overseas be used to build hospitals, train doctors, establish better public health care?
That some of that cash might have been used to stop Ebola before it started to spread out of control?
Of course you didn’t.
That is why I exist.
I am here to point these contradictions, absurdities and hypocrisies.
And best of all – I do this for free 🙂
How much you want to bet whatever money is being given to fight Ebola is tied aid — i.e. every cent must be spent with US contractors.
Now if I were a big shot at Edelman PR … I would follow up on this Ebola press release with an announcement that the US is dropping 100 tonnes of rice (GMO of course) to the poor people who are suffering from the economic impacts of Ebola.
And I would be sure to get a few sacks of this rice scattered around Obama with the MADE IN THE USA logos prominent – I might even suggest we kill two birds with one stone and get the Monsanto logo next to the Stars and Stripes on those sacks (hey – maybe Edelman needs to hire me…. or Monsanto…)
And the American people will remain oblivious to what is really going on in Africa — and they will tuck their kids in at night after stories of how wonderful America is … and the average American will be puffed with pride over this ….. and everyone lives happily ever after.
Except the Africans who are living worse than the average American’s dog because they are not benefiting from the resources in their countries — and if they speak up against this — they are declared to be terrorists – and exterminated.
Of course by posting the above I have strengthened the matrix… I really shouldn’t do that — but I cannot help myself.
10, 9, 8 , 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1…. let the insults begin!
Americans overeat and because of autos we get very little exercise. This is the main cause of death rates. My 101 year old grandmother eats bacon, eggs for breakfast and steak, fried chicken potatoes and gravy for dinner with a slice of pie for dessert and a glass of wine at 4:00 pm everyday. But she makes a habit of walking her dogs 1/2 mile to a mile every day. My other grandmother who just died at age 99 ate extremely healthy and also got exercise in her large yard almost every day. A study on aging golfers done in the 1990s showed that retirees that played golf once a week lived 7 years longer than sedentary retirees. Those that played golf 2+ times per week lived 10.5 years longer. Given that the study only included people over 65, this is HUGE. Eating too much and getting no exercise will kill you. Once we start running out of oil, people will start walking & riding again.
this is off topic, but that dream from other night has got me wondering about the women..
if we’ve got all these extra people, what does that do to the value of wormen?
if the women are no longer needed to produce people, and the “might makes right” attitude trickles down from the imperial poohbahs to the general population, will women be at a physical disadvantage in survival situations?
…or will it get that bad?
“what does that do to the value of wormen?” Uhh does this really need explaining to you…. The value of women is historically a tangible asset and i think if anything it will only increase in times to come. Not much sense in fighting off the aliens from planet x without a lover to come home to. If anything i wonder about the value of men with no applicable skills. They are good for ??? Men have deep need of women and a deep need to consort with the ultimate womb/woman the planet.
“love conquers all”
i guess you could google: female infanticide”
Female infanticide is a way of keeping population from rising too rapidly. The next generation of women mostly determines the next round of population. Excess men in some sense don’t matter (except for making war).
As long as there are people, there will be couples who want to have babies. Nature has taken care of that. I don’t expect that any government will be able to change that.
Gail
In Spain there’s the saying: ‘The baby brings its bread with it’. People will just plunge ahead and have babies whatever their circumstances and trust to luck. Any solution to our problems which relies on birth control is simply a non-starter.
Some people try to prepare. After living with her mother and me my daughter and her husband just moved out of my house and in to their new home today. New to them , built in 1967 and coincidentally was bought new by her Father in laws older brother then. The father in law is disabled and has also been living with us. For the first time in 43 years I do not have a child living at home. PARTY TIME! For three years the father in law was unable to work or draw disability. His son and me helped support him. His family was friends with my family way back. It was a pleasure. The kids now want to start a family and figure they will have a built in babysitter. They also have three little dachshunds, days are interesting.
I am afraid you are right. People often don’t think through the financial commitment involved with having a child.
Paul, your wishful thinking about a potential future decline in American influence could be clouding your judgment. I hate to burst your bubble, but absent a nuclear exchange, the international order that exists today will in all likelihood exist tomorrow. Oh sure, there will be declines across the board for all blocks, but the relative position of each player will remain unchanged. That’s the thing about the end of fossil fuel growth – there aren’t sufficient energy stores available to power any radical shifts.
Also, I’m not sure why there are so many adherents to the prospect of so-called supply chain dependencies. Is everyone here so young/uninformed that they have no personal recollection of a time when the USA was 100% self-supporting? Do they seem to believe that (a) the US has no latent manufacturing capacity, nor possess the capability to rapidly re-tool/restructure; and/or (b) we no longer have sufficient energy reserves to be self-sufficient?
For those hoping and praying for some kind of cosmic retribution against the ‘Great Satan’, and also those convinced that globalization is irreversible and will irreparably harm existing production/distribution functions, I’ve got a useful link for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kenneth_Galbraith#World_War_II
Galbraith was both involved in setting policies governing/managing US wartime production, and was also involved in the post-war analysis of Allied strategic bombing vis-a-vis German production. Please take some time to read/research, and maybe you’ll gain some insight as to how this is going to play out.
Again, to re-iterate, it would be a trivial matter for the US to once again assume currency authority via issuance of ‘Greenbacks’, default on all dollar denominated debts, requisition all available resources, feed its population a baseline of 2-2.5k calories/day, and in general, be an island in an ocean of chaos.
Is anyone suggesting it will be like the 50s? No, of course not, but it’s cheaper to feed 325m people than to conduct wide-scale martial law. Also, as Bernays knew so well, once you get 325m people marching in one direction ie self-sufficiency in fossil fuel extraction, with a little bit of terror for the 10% or so who don’t go along with the program, then propaganda efforts are greatly assisted by communal group think.
I know this scenario doesn’t fit very well with those who are still emotionally involved in day-day events, but trust me, it’s how the game plays out. That being so, it’s easy to merely position oneself to be the loudest cheerleader, the super patriot, the one defending ‘Merica against critics, etc, in order to enjoy a few more decades in relative prosperity as we cycle down to neo-fuedalism.
there will be factions that try to hold it together –the US, that is
there will be other factions that figure they can make big bucks selling arms to malcontents
too bad the US population is so easily divided against itself –mainly because of the racial fault lines
taking the PNAC people for example… if their commitment to israel is real, then they’ve got to hold the US together to defend israel…
but are those PNAC people really committed to israel, or are they only exploiting israel’s holocaust exemption and using the PNAC project as cover for their looting operation?
i mean, bush buys a hundred thousand acres in paraguay…
what the hell’s that about?
“I hate to burst your bubble, but absent a nuclear exchange, the international order that exists today will in all likelihood exist tomorrow.”
Tell that to Romulus Augustus.
The conditions that put the US in top position are not going to exist tomorrow. All empires fall.
I am sure the British… and the Spanish… and the Romans… and the … fill in the blank… thought their day would never end either.
As I have said, all bad things have to end sometime. American is done.
I remember after 9/11 how Americans pulled together. If it’s us (US) against them sacrifices will willingly be made. Ferguson is just a small side show, the real heart of America never makes the news.
The world is to small for us against them any more. That only works where there are infinite resources that we can war over. The game changer is that it doesn’t matter who wins the resources are exhausted. We thought it was the spoils of war but it was all stolen from the planet. Can you not see the truth in this dont you feel it in your bones? Do you still think you “earned” the lifestyle you enjoy? Are you hoping for aliens to invade so we can make one last glorious stand at the Alamo?
Daddio7, you are right. It is so easy to villify America and Americans, but the real country and its citizens are the quiet, hardworking, decent, honest folk that you never hear about and there are more of them than anyone knows. Last time I made that case, though, Paul almost had a stroke. Breathe, Paul, breathe…. When things start to get ugly and the chips are down, this country will rise up (as it always has) roll up its sleeves, and get to work. It can’t beat Peak Oil, but it can choose how it defines itself in the dark times to come.
So I am mistaken in my perception that most Americans are sacks of fat, who spend their time checking how many likes they have on Facebook, watching NFL triple headers while downing 2 for 1 pizza and family sized colas, then tuning into reruns of Dancing with Stars, and topping it off with the the hollywood news giving them the latest need to know on paris hilton and the kardashians….
I am wrong when I think the vast majority of Americans are unthinking imbeciles who are obsessed with going to the mall and buying more more more….
I forget where I saw it but something like 20% of American adults are popping some sort of anti-depressants on a long term basis…
Are these good people the same ones who voted for George Bush not once but twice — who believed — really truly believed – that Saddam was behind 911 — because they are unthinking morons
And are these the good people who took the streets without a single drop of class shouting USA USA USA after Bin Laden was apparently shot down in his underwear (with not a body guard in site..)
Guess what — I spend a lot of time in a lot of countries — and what you think of the average American is at complete odds with what most people around the world think….
To most people Americans and America are a bit of a joke…. a dangerous joke of course…
It’s time for a song — courtesy of Mr Bowie http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPVrFIP0CMs
Paul,
I respect your opinions and views, but I have to tell you that you are only seeing a few trees, not the forest, and misunderstanding much of what you think you see. The strength and heart of the American people should not be underestimated, regardless of our diverse colors and backgrounds, and associated stupid politics, and oligarchs, and on and on.
When things get tough, better join us and help with the job, or get out of the way. A lot of us are seemingly worthless, fat slobs who eat too much and don’t pay attention, yet. A lot of us are honest, hard working, aware of our world troubles, dedicated to our causes, and patriotic. Hate us if you must, but it is a mistake to underestimate us. Japan thought much the same way you do in 1941, and awoke the sleeping giant.
You could do worse for a close neighbor, don’t you think? Wanna trade us for Mexico? How about someplace in Africa, maybe Sierra Leone? At least we are pretty stable as countries go, for now. And we don’t have much ebola, yet.
Despite our differences in opinions, I’m glad to have you for a neighbor.
JK
“Japan thought much the same way you do in 1941, and awoke the sleeping giant.”
At that time, the US was the world’s top energy producer, and the difference between a janitor’s wage and a CEO’s wage was perhaps 1:4.
Things are different this time. In a world of declining energy, you can’t simply point to the past to predict the future. (Well, you can, but that doesn’t make it true!)
Oh, please Jan! You really want to present the image of Great America from the 40’s, as a land of equality and Gini coefficient lowest in the whole developed world??? Really? How many books should I recommend you to change your mind?
Give me your numbers, then.
Mine come from here: http://www.vanderbilt.edu/econ/sempapers/Frydman1.pdf
The 4:1 ratio is for smaller companies, but the trend since then is the same for all sizes: the exec take away more and more of the pie.
Keep in mind that the top income tax rate at the time was over 50%, meaning the more you made, the less of it you kept.
Bottom line: if your boss only makes four times as much as you, you might be willing to feel solidarity in a crisis. If he makes 500 times as much as you, you’re likely to see him as the crisis.
I have no illusion that Americans will “pull together” as long as a tiny portion of them hold most of the wealth. If the rich were smart, they’d start divesting! Or build fortresses, which they appear to be doing instead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient#mediaviewer/File:Gini_since_WWII.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States#mediaviewer/File:Share_top_1_percent.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States#mediaviewer/File:Share_top_1_percent.jpg
It’s not so much different today, isn’t it?
I guess, if you mention CEO, they were the aspirating to the aristocracy/oligarchy/capitalist establishment. They were contributing to the inequality. More numbers or rather more documentalistic positions, like Mice and Men from John Steinbeck. Written 1936, published in 1937, not long before time we are talking about. Gini coeficcient doesnt change a lot during 4 years period. Sorry, Jan. 4:1 didn’t happen. It’s a pure propaganda.
Vanderbilt foundation data? These guys inherited money from one of the smartest capitalist http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Vanderbilt, one of the Robber Barons who made a lot of money on steamboat transport. Not very reliable source.
“It’s not so much different today, isn’t it?”
I guess it depends on your point-of-view. I think it’s vastly different today.
Jan,
I respect your right to different opinion. I just derive conclusions from different, in my opinion more extensive and divers data sources than your vanderbilt foundation research. USofA was the land of equality in the beginning, with protestant colonies on East Coast. This changed for more and more unequal society with time. From the times of slavery till today, US has quite social structure – with one very important feature – it was not very rigid membership, it was elastic, allowing vertical mobility for those most determined.
kesar
“US has quite social structure” – should be “US has quite oligarchic social structure”.
The numbers don’t lie. There are numerous examples in literature from XIX and early XX century.
“The Grapes of Wrath”, “Robber Barons”. Equality was a short period in american history between Pearl Harbor and 1980’s (sponsored by cheap and allegedly inexhaustible energy and other resources). Locally, equality was popular in small communities – especially religous – spread all over the country.
“I have no illusion that Americans will “pull together” as long as a tiny portion of them hold most of the wealth. If the rich were smart, they’d start divesting! Or build fortresses, which they appear to be doing instead.”
Oh, believe me, they do.
http://www.editinternational.com/photos.php?id=4e1d8eb940e32
http://www.forbes.com/sites/morganbrennan/2013/11/27/billionaire-bunkers-beyond-the-panic-room-home-security-goes-sci-fi/
http://www.sovereignman.com/
http://www.sovereignman.com/chile-property-investment-black-paper/
http://www.kungfufinance.com/live-from-chile-sovereign-man-resilient-community/
Can’t find the article about Walton Family secure house. Believe me, they will live there very comfortably for several years without contact with the outside world.
The problem with Americans — is that they live in America.
And when you live in America you are bombarded by propaganda 24/7… so it is you who are not seeing more than a few trees.
You are aware that the foundation of your country is based on the genocide of millions of people? You should know that Thanks Giving Day is a celebration of genocide — the fact that this does not register with most people in the country is evidence that you people cannot see past the end of your nose – never mind seeing trees or forests…
Of course I don’t tar all Americans with the same brush – there are some good people there – some people who see what is going on… I know a few people who have sold up and left the country because they were disgusted by what was happening.
But the VAST majority of the people in America are ignorant, arrogant, gluttonous fools who do not have passports, swallow the garbage that is fed to them by the MSM while god bless America with hand over heart and a tear in their eye…
Don’t give me this horse dung that most Americans are decent,… I have already pointed out that the majority supported the war crime that was and is Iraq.
Now you can argue that they are stupid or ignorant for doing that — as I have — but that does not relieve you of responsibility as a nation. It certainly didn’t get any Germans off the hook in the aftermath of WW2.
Decent people do not support war crimes — decent people do NOT vote for war criminals once – never mind twice.
As for America as a neighbour – one of the reasons I prefer not to live in BC is because America is 2 hours away — and as David Bowie and Nine Inch Nails puts it — I am afraid of Americans….
As you suck your ground water dry you greedy buggers will be looking north for water — and if we don’t sate the beast with fresh water the Deep State will invent a reason to take what they want — and if anyone in Canada were to oppose this — they’d be labelled terrorists — and the vast majority of the ignorant masses in America will be on the streets screaming USA USA — and bellowing for the storm troopers to swarm across the border and do as they always have — pillage, murder, and destroy….
If it weren’t for that I would be very happy to make my stand in BC instead of the jungles of Indonesia. But as it stands — i want to be as far away as possible from the USA when this goes down.
Yes, Paul, since you asked, you are wrong. You are using simplistic stereotypes and you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to Americans and America.
I find it is useful to back up claims with facts….
Almost 3 in 4 men (74 percent) are considered to be overweight or obese.
http://win.niddk.nih.gov/statistics/
Paul, it appears from your statements that it is YOU who watch too much CNN. The images of vast crowds of ignorant Americans chanting “USA” are the kinds of hyperbolic reporting that you find on CNN and other MSM. IF you walk down any street in regular US towns, cities and villages, you see ordinary decent people, most of whom are not obese, quietly going about the business of living. You are a smart guy, but you’ve bought into a weird, twisted vision that isn’t true and is only slightly less annoying than wadosy continuously bringing up “neocons” controlling everything.
Once again — the majority of the ‘decent’ Americans — voted for George Bush not once but twice…. the majority stood behind the decision to invade and destroy a country over a lie.
I don’t recall the majority insisting that heads roll over the torture chambers that the military was running in Iraq. As usual, that barely registered — the decent Americans don’t care — they just want to get back to watching Dancing with Stars, gorging on garbage, and checking for updates on the kardashian whores…
If the majority was truly decent — they would have stood against these war crimes.
They did not — therefore the only conclusion I take from this is the majority is either ignorant or stupid — or that they are simply not decent people at all — that they don’t give a damn so long as they get to enjoy their god given right to live LARGE.
And I don’t watch CNN — I have not owned a tee vee for many years…
wadosy,
do you know you use the word “neocon” in almost every comment you write?
“the quiet, hardworking, decent, honest folk”
Yes this is the part of daddios statement that bears supporting. The part of his statement that corrupts his support of the people in the USA is that this can only be achieved through conflict and war. The premise that the only possible thing that can unify the people of the USA is war, not love of nature , not love of the children, but war is a characterization that works against the interests of “the quiet, hardworking, decent, honest folk”.
How wonderful that America pulled together and got on board believing the obvious lies and supported the invasion of a country (Iraq) murdering and maiming 100’s of thousands and turning the place into a failed state.
We really need Americans to pull together more often.
Remind me to buy shares in defense contractors before you guys pull together again would ya.
Wow B9K9 is that really you? Did you join me and drink the KoolAid, or what? From now on the US will be the best house in a bad neighborhood. The resources are spent, there is no more wealth to steal. Everybody gets to play now with the hand that is dealt. Russia and China will not be transcendant, but we will all go down together, with the US going down last. In the starvation battle, the fat guy wins!
China and Russia – and the Brics — are moving away from the USD as the reserve currency.
As that progresses America is finished as an empire. Unless America can stop them from doing that — and it would seem the only way to do that is through violence – extreme violence… of course that would fail as Russia and China have nukes
America is done.
Of course the PTB in America are very much aware of that — that is why they are thrashing about like a wounded bear…. the only question I have now is how much damage the beast does before it dies.
All bad things have to end sometime.
Not that it matters — when this energy crisis hits a crescendo note, that will be the end of all empires… for good.
“Also, I’m not sure why there are so many adherents to the prospect of so-called supply chain dependencies. Is everyone here so young/uninformed that they have no personal recollection of a time when the USA was 100% self-supporting? Do they seem to believe that (a) the US has no latent manufacturing capacity, nor possess the capability to rapidly re-tool/restructure; and/or (b) we no longer have sufficient energy reserves to be self-sufficient?”
You are going on here as if BAU is going to continue after the SHTF. Retool? Are you kidding?
The only retooling that is going to happen is that people are going to revert to using rudimentary tools fashioned from the detritus of a dead civilization — they will be picking through the scrap heaps for bits of metal to use for making plowshares… or for making crude weapons to bludgeon each other to death over a scrap of rat meat.
It amazes me that people seem to believe that when this unravels we are still going to have a society that resembles what we have now.
You are massively underestimating what is coming our way — and you seem enthralled by the psychopathic clowns who run the show in America believing they are omnipotent.
Keep in mind it is these so called masters of the universe who put us in this situation — did you ever consider that they might be idiots?
After all, who but a total idiot would do anything including commit mass murder time and time again … because they believed in a system that was based on infinite growth in a finite world?
I guarantee you — these men that you seem to worship are scared out of their minds right now
They know what they are up against — and their only solution is to barricade themselves behind the castle gates — arm their storm troopers with 1.6 billion rounds and APVs — and wait for the masses to turn against them and set fire to the castle.
The masters of the universe are powerless against what is coming — they are desperately trying to keep their little game together a while longer with crazed policies like money printing…
Money printing is suicide – they know that — but they know they are dead one way or the other….so best to live a few more days or months….
And they know — when the game ends — it will be every man for himself — and the warriors that keep these smug clowns safe for now — will realize the masters have nothing left to offer them… they will see them for what they are — flacid old arrogant weak men who no longer serve any purpose…. and they will turn their knives on them … and put them down like one would a sickly old dog.
Paul, please write all this in book form and publish it, thank you
I’m 62 and remember when almost all consumer items were American made. Trucks, automobiles, TVs, radios, appliances, shoes, clothing, hand tools, plus most industrial machines were American made. Half of the cars sold in the US are foreign brands. Now you can’t find an American made TV or radio and of course all computers and cellphones are imported. I worked on three different brands of potato bagging machines that cost a quarter million dollars each. They were imported from Germany, the Netherlands, and Spain. My father in law worked at a paper mill where they installed a 100 foot long paper towel machine made in Italy. If it needed servicing a tech had to fly in from Italy.
Now if you want something bombed or shot, we got that.
“Now if you want something bombed or shot, we got that.”
Yeah, your’e good at that.
“Now if you want something bombed or shot, we got that.”
Any fool with a dimes worth of sharpened steel in their pocket can destroy.
Destruction is easy, learning to love, and learning to love oneself is hard.
The great martial artists knew that skills developed to destroy had to be balanced with equal skills devoted to love and beauty. A warrior must respect love and be artful in their actions in order to go to their death with a calm heart.
I expect things will change greatly–although it may be over a period of years. America at some point will cease to exist, in its current form. The European Union will likely cease to exist even sooner. Under these circumstances, I expect it will be very hard for any country to be an island in an ocean of chaos.
Here are some data points on height:
Kennewick Man was 5″11 and 160 pounds before he was murdered. In West China I saw the bodies of 2 mummies, the man was 6″6 with brown hair and facial tatoos, a woman was 6’2 with red hair. Native Americans were about 5’9 compared to 5’4 for european settlers. The average American soldier in ww 2 was 5’6, 150 pounds, 30 inch waist. British soldiers were taller in 1800, than 1900.
I’m a physician who is going to quit, I’ve been driven away by the sorry state of my patients (obesity, poor health, anger and mental health problems), and the dysfunctional system.
Imagine if you were a mechanic, and it was your job to work on cars with 200,000 miles and all major components needed an overhaul, and you have to keep all of them on the road, and work harder and harder with less resources. Would you sign up?
However, though many are dissatisfied, I’m definitely in the minority. Most doctors suck it up and continue to march on, because it’s what they’ve been trained to do, and they make money doing it. For now.
Don’t quit, Doc. I recently went to my primary care physician for sinus problems i’ve developed as i’ve gotten older (55). My Doctor is a health freak and because he set the example i’m now eating way better (fruits and vegs), i’m now exercising, have lost weight and my BP is now down to normal. He said I need to lose 50lbs which would put me at 165lbs. Damn I haven’t seen that weight since my baby pictures. 😀
Anyways, continue to set the example, you’d be surprised how much good you do. You never hear the good only the bad because that’s what you are supposed to do.
“Imagine if you were a mechanic, and it was your job to work on cars with 200,000 miles and all major components needed an overhaul, and you have to keep all of them on the road, and work harder and harder with less resources. Would you sign up?”
Great analogy and question, dolph9. They maintain their vehicles the same way they do their bodies; little if any maintenance or long term considerations.
You write “most doctors suck it up…For now.” Should get very interesting on the descent from peak oil as that dynamic of bodies worsening coupled with diminishing returns accentuates. I imagine it could reach a point in which the ranks of medical personnel to handle the squeezed masses becomes to few to serve all, similar to the situation in Liberia right now as those ill exceeds the staff to take care of them.
Best to you in whatever you may choose career-wise after your current situation.
“I’m a physician who is going to quit…”
Aw man, don’t QUIT, just get “out of the system!”
Have you seen the movie about Patch Adams? There are so many ways a physician can be useful to humanity outside of a conventional practice or hospital!
C’mon up to BC. We’ll find something more fulfilling to do for you!
We need GPs. Sell all your property turn it into gold and silver and bury it. Now you have zero that can be stolen from you except your liberty if you start writing scrips for oxycotin for $50. Now you can actually practice medicine- do the best you can. Hang out a shingle at your rented shack- for the community. No yellow pages. No linked in. Make every decision for the community. You as a part of the community are an asset so look after yourself. Who knows you might like living as a free man. in a community that values and respects you. Ever seen Iron monkey? The martial artist doctor charges rich patrons who cant get it up a lot, poor hardworking people who need help- not so much.
There was an article in the actuarial magazine Contingencies this week called Opioid Nation. It talks about drug overdoses now being the leading cause of accidental death in the United States–41,000 in 2011. Opioids seem to be a problem when prescribed for long term pain, like back injuries. They frequently lead to addiction, and every higher needed doses to relieve pain.
Don’t quit. Learn post-peak-oil medicine like this guy and be useful to your community.
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/07/village-medicine.html?m=1
Yeah dolph9. You can still be a doctor just go your own way. You can practice medicine without participating in the farce!
Dolph9, sure drop out of the insurance, eRecords, “evidence” based system. My wife had a great doctor she practiced out of her house. She charged reasonable rates and it was cash and carry. That is, you see her you pay her, cash or check. See who you want to see. The morbidly sick will not come to you on a cash and carry basis they want massive care that they can not pay for out of pocket.
You are of course still in the system with the need to carry malpractice insurance to defend yourself from a system gone mad.
“You are of course still in the system with the need to carry malpractice insurance to defend yourself from a system gone mad.”
Depends on how radical you want to get.
Put all your money into a non-profit health clinic. Get other local non-profits to sign on; put them on-title as equal co-owners. You work for it as a volunteer in exchange for room and board. All treatment is by donation. Voila! No deep pockets to sue.
My not-soon-enough-to-be-ex is testing this theory. But I’ve seen no grounds for piercing the corporate veil unless you’re trying to get out of taxes or something.
My understanding is that a doctors personal assets can be taken by the courts regardless of employment. I could be wrong. Id be interested in anything you have to share about non profits. My understanding is that every non profit has to have a board in control and this leads to endless bickering and power struggles. That is why I advocate individuals getting their assets off books and working for the community. Individuals with specific goals in mind can achieve results, any structure created and its resultant redtape is a waste of energy. An individual truly motivated to serve the community can get appropriate feedback from the community and do real work without the burden of structure. The structure provides mission statement and some support but in my experience its never worth the high drag. Competent individuals already know what needs to be done- free yourself and get to work.
“My understanding is that a doctor’s personal assets can be taken by the courts regardless of employment.”
So don’t have any liquid assets!
If all your assets are shares in a co-op, and there are others with shares, some court might decide to take them, but no court is going to penalize other shareholders by forcing liquidation of the entire co-op just so they can liquidate your shares.
“My understanding is that every non profit has to have a board in control and this leads to endless bickering and power struggles.”
That hasn’t been my experience, but perhaps I’m just very selective in what organizations I get involved with.
In fact, the opposite seems to be the case here: one’s influence is directly related to what one puts in. People who bicker need to be asked to volunteer to implement their version of reality. Then in most cases, they quietly go away. (“You mean I’m expected to actually do something, rather than just shoot my mouth off?”)
“That is why I advocate individuals getting their assets off books…”
Is there really such a thing these days? Switzerland knuckled under long ago, and most other “tax havens” have significant disadvantages.
“An individual truly motivated to serve the community can get appropriate feedback from the community and do real work without the burden of structure. The structure provides mission statement and some support but in my experience its never worth the high drag.”
Perhaps that’s why your impression of organizations is bickering — you’re attracted by ones without structure!
Just as fences make good neighbours, good written agreements make good organizations.
If you don’t like structure, fine. Do without. But it’s hardly fair to tar all organizations with your bias.
Lawyers really like an insurance policy with nice high limits. There is no problem with liquidity. I am not sure if high policy limits actually attract suits, but they certainly enable the system to have enough funding to support a lot of lawyers.
“Is there really such a thing these days? Switzerland knuckled under long ago, and most other “tax havens” have significant disadvantages.’
Jan I mentioned neither tax havens or Switzerland. If one really takes the plunge and looks art retaining assets not for personal wealth but as a caretaker of those assets for the community the disadvantages are small. In the lieu of the fact that all financial instruments are severely corrupted why would one care? What I did mention is buying physical precious metals and securing them outside of the banking system. Taking this plunge has disadvantages but it also has the advantage of cutting most of the ties of our models for wealth accumulation. Full attention can now be given to the needs of the community.
“If all your assets are shares in a co-op”
Is a Co-op a non profit? So ownership of shares of a nonprofit is possible?
“Just as fences make good neighbours, good written agreements make good organizations.
If you don’t like structure, fine. Do without. But it’s hardly fair to tar all organizations with your bias.”
Jan im just trying to get a understanding here. If the attorney I spoke with on this subject was incorrect I would like to know, I have a strong interest in this subject. and yes most probaly a “bias”.
It seems clear to me that our ideas about ownership have been inappropriate. At the same time those with assets- like the good doctor above I assume- have spent most of of their life accumulating them. Invariably when one looks at appropriate ways of distributing those assets their are those who say fine give it to me, my organization, my nonprofit. Thats a easy position to take if you haven’t spent your life time to get what you have. Over and over again I see this. Those with no assets are all for those with assets throwing everything into the pot for their use. If you give out worms there are a million open beaks demanding to be fed. You may call it my “bias” but over the years I have seen many individuals making profit in “salaries” in non profits. Salaries of over a hundred thousand a year are not at all uncommon in nonprofits. Some of the worst predators are those that are “consultants” to some nonprofits.
The attorney I spoke with opinion was there was only one advantage to a nonprofit the ability to receive money without taxation. This characteristic of a non-profit often leads to the abuses I mentioned where the mission statement is largely abandoned and the nonprofit main purpose becomes a means of gaining wealth for the participants via their salaries. I have witnessed that volunteers are widely taken advantage of within nonprofits, with the salaried employees of the non profit making large salaries and the volunteers not being compensated financially. I have witnessed very valuable properties donated to non profits in wills that were intended to be permanent facilities to benefit the community, that were sold off to support inflated salaries.
I guess you could call that a bias. It comes from my observations of two decades of volunteering and donating to nonprofits digging into their books and having close friends on the inside of non profits who are disgusted with the abuses.
Returning to the attorneys comment above that the only advantage of a non profit is to accept donations without taxation. I differ in that opinion in only one way. Its nice to belong to society in some identifiable way for social purposes. “im the director of a nonprofit that feeds hungry orphans” has a lot more social benefits than “im retired”. This is the lure of structure, but as mentioned this advantage is not worth the drag in my opinion. If you are truly making decisions based on the needs of the community that includes abandoning social status. If you have assets, most likely you have skills, abilities to help the community. Just do it. Use your imagination. Throw away your models and that includes non profits. In my experience those that do this are able to make a much greater difference and use their assets much more efficiently. Often people who are able to abandon their models are able to see, whether by fate or destiny that they possess unique skills and talents that enables them to use the assets they are caretakers of to work for the community in very effective ways.
Oh and Jan. Seeing that you are a active volunteer of a nonprofit do you think it might be possible that you have a bias of your own? I know you are doing good work im not questioning that or your association with a nonprofit. We are on the same team. We want to enable people to use their assets for the community in the best way possible. There is certainly room for different approaches to this and everyone benefits from having the freedom to contribute in the way that works best for them wouldn’t you agree?
“Is a Co-op a non profit? So ownership of shares of a nonprofit is possible?”
Corporate law is generally defined by states and provinces. In BC, one can have a “non-profit cooperative.” It can include member (decision-making) shares, but not investment shares. A true non-profit (formally called a “Society” in Canada) can qualify to received tax-advantaged donations — a “Charity” in Canada or a “501(c)(3)” in the US.
One can also operate a co-op anywhere as a “not-for-profit,” which is an ill-defined term that roughly means, “without the intention of making a profit.” In BC, such co-ops can have investment shares. This is unlike a corporation, which in most jurisdictions, must be operated in a manner as to maximize profit.
“If the attorney I spoke with on this subject was incorrect I would like to know.”
If you’re talking about seizing assets, then yes, a doctor’s assets could be seized, even if they were shares in a not-for-profit co-op. But in BC (at least), the Cooperative Associations Act is quite adept at keeping the court from doing anything with those assets if it would damage the co-op. In other words, a court could sieze the doctor’s co-op shares, but if liquidating them would cause the co-op to be “unable to pay its liabilities as they become due in the ordinary course of business,” they cannot be turned into cash.
This turns out to be a mixed blessing. It is difficult for co-ops to obtain financing, because banks have difficulty seizing the title upon foreclosure, for example.
“I have seen many individuals making profit in “salaries” in non profits. Salaries of over a hundred thousand a year are not at all uncommon in nonprofits. Some of the worst predators are those that are “consultants” to some nonprofits.”
And these non-profits routinely have their “corporate veil pierced” if the payments are out-of-line with other businesses.
On the other hand, the CEO of a large non-profit can legitimately claim that a “hundred thousand a year” is certainly not out-of-line with CEO salaries at similarly situated for-profit corporations.
“The attorney I spoke with opinion was there was only one advantage to a nonprofit the ability to receive money without taxation.”
That’s a pretty narrow view.
A Charity can also receive tax-deferred contributions. (I’m assuming you meant the Charity could “make money” without taxation, but there are strict limits on that.) Finally, non-profits also qualify for a lot of grant money that is not available to for-profit companies. For example, we received a Canada Summer Jobs grant that paid minimum wage plus all Mandatory Employment Related Costs (MERCs) for a college student.
I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences with non-profits. There are “bad apples” in any segment of society. Perhaps your close association with a a few of these bad apples causes you to tar them all with the same brush.
“There is certainly room for different approaches to this and everyone benefits from having the freedom to contribute in the way that works best for them wouldn’t you agree?”
Good agreements make good organizations. If you want to just go out and do good stuff, great! But if you want others to help you, by definition, you’ll need organization and structure. Since you’re seen so many bad organization, you’ll have an opportunity to improve on the model, no?
Thank you Jan thats all good information. It would be nice to create a structure that would be greater than one individual. I am glad that your structure enhances your abilities to do good work!
The structure does require energy and maintenance and ive noticed that that seems to take priority rather than the original goals after a while. I do want to say that if you are working toward goals in a community, the community is working beside you and sees your heart and your mind that creates a “organization” that is strong. Shared sweat bind it.
I encourage alternative models. I see many people approaching retirement with a lot of assets. The model is that only leisure activities are appropriate in retirement. Generally the individual who has assets enjoys working. Many who have assets have strong ties in a community. Many who approach retirement have strong skills and are able to make strong gifts to the community. The model where the only path to giving to the community is through structures is severely flawed and wasteful in my opinion.
Most people work their whole life for one corporation or the next. We are conditioned to perform only within a structure. What I am advocating is that individuals realize that they can work just as hard and be just as effective working for goals of their choosing. I find this realization that ones own compassion and essence can be used to help the planet and things we find beauty in to be pivotal. With fiat still working, the greatest barriers are self created obstacles and conditioning.
I often advocate this with people who are approaching or in retirement. Many love their community. Many quickly become bored with leisure activities. It doesnt take structure it just takes a reset of our models. How can a individual help? The corporation doesnt know. I dont know. Only the individual knows. Out of their essence they define their actions and their final years are spent working toward things that they actually believe in not the emptiness of accumulation and the oblivion of leisure activities. Their lifes work transitions from making widgets for the corporation to support of things that they find beauty in. I find that transition to be one of the few opportunities for victory possible for our species.
The individual has complete control of what they create. The degree of their involvement is completely up to them. They can still be with their family. They can still golf once a week if they want. The change of focus does create manifestations. Often their are people in the community with shared goals that are in need of assets. If one has changed ones observation to a role of facilitizing goals rather than accumulation putting a critical asset in place becomes enormously effective. Only the individual living in the community has the knowledge to apply these assets effectively. You dont give away the farm you let the motor have some lubrication. The motor does all the work you just keep it lubed. The work is already being done, you just eliminate the barriers. Always the accent on the community the goal, from the heart. People who would never accept charity will accept from you because the understanding is its for the goal not accumulation. You know their heart and they know yours.
If you are on the right path things fall into place. Its amazing. There are forces at work greater than ourselves.
If you admit patients to a hospital, you are required to carry malpractice insurance. I would not be surprised if a doctor who does not admit patients to a hospital could (more or less) get along without malpractice insurance in most states otherwise. I would doubt that a lawyer wants to bother suing a doctor without an insurance policy or very easy-to-get-at-assets like a clinic. Hospitals have a lot of assets, so are very easily sued. Also, patients who are not sick enough to go to a hospital are less likely to have the severe problems that bring about suits. For example, someone who is just counseling people on their diet is not likely to be sued–nor are dietitians.
I have heard a lot of complaints by doctors. Part of the problem is more administrative work. You point out another part of the problem. It is not all that easy to change professions late in the game.
I know this latest post is on food, but just to keep us all abreast of the latest oil news, look where oil price is as of 11:40AM PST:
http://www.bloomberg.com/energy/
Brent -1.50 to 97.66
& WTI -1.32 to 91.43
I have to think the oil traders know something is in the offing, like a world recession, a stock market correction or both, as oil price continues to descend. Could WTI go sub 90 in price?
This is about the war on Russia. The western PTB are in waring in about every possible way they can war on Russia.
Creedon, an interesting idea and very possible but I could not find anything in a Google search. Got a link?
I agree that dropping oil prices and dropping commodity prices are happening right now, and are likely to be a big problem. I think they are related to slackening world economic growth, which is related to lower growth in debt and some intentional reduction in economic activity–things like retaliation against Russia, and Russia retaliating against the US.
I need to write a post on this. I am tied up with some personal commitments this week-end, but will get back to this next week.
All diets basically achieve positive results on the American diet since it’s so bad, Additionally, all diets have these 4 elements in common:
1 – Reduce or eliminate sugar
2 – Reduce or eliminate trans fats
3 – Reduce or eliminate processed foods
4 – Reduce or eliminate refined foods
With 70% the American population overweight and half of those obese, it seems pretty clear that excess sugar and simple carbohydrate consumption is fueling this epidemic. Additionally, the research is making it clear that leptin resistance (always being hungry) and insulin resistance (diabetes) is caused by excessive (low nutrient) carbs. Seems a little crazy that nutrition experts continue to advise diabetics to eat diets high in carbs (this fuel source get converted to sugar) vs eating a diet higher in fat (human source of fuel prior to agriculture age and production of grains).
The poor health dilemma of Americans is additionally compromised by poor sleep, lack of exercise, excessive stress, and other environmental factors.
Dear Gail and All
This post is a little off the central line of Gail’s post. But I think it is generally relevant to everything said here. It is also relevant to the issue of health care costs, as we have built an ever more complex system which long ago passed the point of diminishing returns and is now on the verge of collapse.
Here is the link to George Mobus’ current post:
http://questioneverything.typepad.com/question_everything/2014/09/how-does-nature-manage-complexity.html
I particularly call your attention to his overall argument that our current political system lacks sapience and thus we have no way to deal with declining energy flows, other than collapse. Also note that he identifies poor information flows as a particularl problem. The issues around health care are poster-child examples of poor information flow.
Also note that George says that nature has solved problems of excess complexity and declining energy flows in the past:
‘Diminishing returns on complexity and the threat of declining energy form dual problems for the continuation of any system. At the same time we have ample examples in nature where systems have reached a level of complexity and declines in energy flow that should have led to collapse, and yet they did not. Rather the system managed to completely reorganize in such a way that the negative effects of peak complexity were mitigated, allowing the whole system to continue operating in spite of, for example, lower energy flows. One can argue that what continues is really a different system, but the basic functionality of what that system performed do continue. Biological evolution provides many examples of this process of reorganization. What interests me is how can we learn from nature, how complexity can be managed such that it doesn’t result in collapse per se[3].’
George is not optimistic that we humans have the sapience required to solve the political problems in the way that nature has previously solved problems.
Don Stewart
Thank you Don for your link to this interesting article by George Mobus.
I was eager for more about those “many examples of this process of reorganization” (with less energy), but instead I found the footnote:
“[3] Of course any massive reorganization, while preserving the functionality of the system, is going to feel like collapse to any sentient participants. The end of the world as we know it will be traumatic. But it is important to understand that it is ONLY the end of the world as we have known it and not the actual end of the world period.”
Still, the entire article is worth reading.
(a pity that F.Roddier’s book isn’t translated into English!)
Dear Stefeun
I am not sure at all that George would agree with what I am about to say.
Begin with Wallace Stevens’ comment:
Music is feeling then, not sound.
Last night I listened to a drum circle doing their thing. Everyone from toddlers to people older than me moving to the rhythms. Was there feeling? Of course there was. Now consider a symphony orchestra of the size and training required to do justice to Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony. If there feeling? Of course there is. But the symphony orchestra and chorus can only be supported by a monarchy or a rich society or a government with taxing powers. A drum circle can operate on a miniscule budget.
If the richness we currently enjoy in the OECD countries were to vanish, and be replaced by drum circles, would the essential function of evoking feelings be retained? Yes it would. So there would be collapse, but no loss of essential functionality.
Which does not generalize to a statement that economic collapse would preserve ALL functions. For example, it is clear to me that a ‘flash collapse’ would result in starvation and drinking water and sanitation issues for billions of people. On the other hand, it is possible to imagine different ways of organizing food production and drinking water catchment and sanitation than the current industrial methods, such that, with George’s ‘sentience’, we COULD preserve the essential functionality.
Bear with me for an example which will likely offend everyone. Back in 1980 a woman who worked with me was also active in the campaign against teenage pregnancy. She taught teenage couples all about mutual masturbation. Now suppose you think, as I do, that the best thing about sex is giving your partner an orgasm or at least a wonderful experience. Then mutual masturbation is the answer to lots of problems…such as overpopulation. It also more reliably gives the female an orgasm.
Is the move from either birth control devices or unprotected sex to mutual masturbation a ‘collapse’? In some sense it certainly is. BUT, it also preserves the essential functionality.
I have thought back many times to my incredulity back in 1980, and how I was just not thinking broadly enough.
Don Stewart
Don,
I agree that sex should be about mutual pleasure and communication, but it seems to be more about power and domination (and all possible combinations of both trends, and probably other ones).
I also agree that we could have much wiser organisation wrt our environment and, as george Mobus concludes:
“Our current species is a lot closer (to greater sapience) than you might think when looking around at all the foolishness found in our world. With just a little more time and the right environment…”
But there are 2 unanswered questions before dreaming of sapience for the whole mankind: 1.what will the decline phase look like? and 2.what will the world look like after the storm?
Then only, we can dream of the survivors -if any- thinking of themselves as part of the ecosystem, and not trying to be the masters of universe as we do ; until some warlord comes to enslave them?…
Better -as you do- enjoy our lives now, and take one day after the other.
Dear Stefeun
I certainly don’t view the future with rose colored glasses. Let’s compare sex and eating fast food. A scientist from the Union of Concerned Scientists was here recently as part of a ‘healthy eating’ initiative. He showed some pictures taken in actual McDonalds which demonstrated how they manipulate their signage to sell some of the most unhealthy food. Then he dropped the comment that ’80 percent of the people who eat in McDonalds are ashamed of that fact if you question them’. (Don’t quote me on the ’80 percent’ it might have been 90. But it was really high.)
Was Donald Trump proud of himself when he purchased a wife from her father, then divorced her at the end of the contract? What kind of mental game was he playing? What would Solomon do with a thousand wives and more concubines? I doubt that either Trump or Solomon were truly pleased with themselves.
And yet, and yet. this sort of behavior persists. The media even gloats over it. The cure is Mindfulness. Which falls far short of the sapience that George hopes for and sometimes thinks we might achieve. Without mindfulness, we fall into the most awful traps and wastes of time and effort. We become poster children for the economists’ pursuit of GDP.
I don’t think that ‘humanity’ is about to wake up. My only hope is that some of my children and grandchildren will wake up, and ‘find the others’ such that their prospects for surviving and thriving are increased. Maybe some of your children and grandchildren also? I hope so!
Don Stewart
Yes Don,
Immediate satisfaction of our desires/wishes/urges is very powerful, especially when encouraged by our societal organisation, mainly, short-term profit.
I personally doubt that our neocortex can take the upper hand onto our limbic system and reptilian brain one day. Both are stronger and likely to have the last word, especially in periods of resource scarcity. But we never know, let’s hope I’m wrong!
And… no, I’ve long ago chosen not to participate in the proliferation of our species. I nevertheless hope the best for your children, all “our” descendants, and all living beings.
Thanks, great blog.
But George Mobus is a bit chewy for the average bear, although nutritious in content.
I share his dismay at the ignorance of our species.
So it begins, since monday Poland receives -(20-25%) less natgas from Russia as punishment for sending reverse flow of russian gas back to Ukraine, which is behind payments for couple of usd billions. Resale of reverse flow is most likely not in good faith with standing nat gas import contracts.
Interestingly the other country engaging in the same stuff Slovakia is so far not announcing any drops in the system, perhaps due to better standing of these two countries.
Another escalation, a warning shot if you like, it’s about time.
Poles are Catholics. Russians are Orthodox. There has been historical fights between Poland and Russia. But not between Russia and Slovakia. Slovaks have better relations with Russia than Poles. Slovakia is a kind of geographical border between the West and the East (Carpathian Mountains), where Catholics, Lutherans and Orthodox live together (e.g Slovakia has got the furthest east western-style gothic cathedral in Europe http://visitkosice.eu/en/about-kosice/most-beautiful-monuments-of-kosice/st-elisabeth-cathedral, together with the Orthodox churches.) Due to the harsher (mountaineous) living conditions, Slovaks are closer to Russians, too.
Currently, Robert Fico, the prime minister of Slovakia says, that Slovakia would pay 100 million EUR per year more when the oil does not come through Druzhba oil pipeline from Russia, but from ships in Croatia and through the Adria oil pipeline:
“A sum of €100 million has been mentioned [in the event of usage of the Adria pipeline] plus fallout in revenues from the [interrupted] transit to the territory of the Czech Republic,” Fico said.
(http://spectator.sme.sk/articles/view/55102/3/slovakia_wary_of_cut_in_crude_oil_supply.html)
Who knows, what is behind his words, what is in the contracts.
“But a cut-off would also hurt Gazprom hard. With revenue cut, Gazprom’s finances would be affected. It cannot compensate by borrowing from the West because sanctions bar Western financial services from lending to the firm.
Turning off the taps is also technically difficult. The gas has nowhere else to go but out to customers. It is impossible to severely scale back extraction volumes at Gazprom’s fields, nor could such huge amounts of gas be safely flared off.”
http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/09/10/ukraine-crisis-gas-poland-idINL5N0RB2KI20140910
The Slovaks allied themselves with Nazi Germany and help invade Russia in WWII.
VPK,
you are only partly right, because there were also those, who fought on the Russian side against Germans.
Until now, there is still a great divide accross the Slovak nation between those who considered the Germans as saviours from Russians and those who considered Russians as saviours from Germans. Some people even fought on the both sides during the WWII.
We were (are) on the border, made by the Carpathian Mountains, between the German technology and Russian resources.
Perhaps, I remember my Father was pro German and anti-Russian, for whatever it is worth. He may have fought against the Russian in WWII, I don’t really know because several versions came out. Be that as it may, I suppose it depends on the times and circumstances.
Watch “Fed Up” a recent film on this subject
After the downfall of oil availability this topic will be mute. Our ancestors were much smaller than today. I visited Salem, Massachusetts and the doors were very tiny. The reason, people were tiny because of their diet and lack of food. One door had many nails pounded in the front, to show off the “wealth” of the owner, since nails were a highly expense item then. Also, the owner had placed many windows in the rooms, because the house was “taxed” by the number of windows. Another display of wealth! We will obviously replace our status symbols with others. Overweight women back when were desired because of their food intake! It took great wealth to get them that way.
Interesting Helen and Scott Nearing promoted many of these themes way back when they decided to grow their own food in the 1930’s and started so in their classic “Living the Good Life”. Helen was a lifetime vegetarian and never tasted meat in her life! I meet her numerous times and she was active as ever even in her 90’s. They warned of processed foods and lack of nutrients and sugar.
Thanks Gail for this piece and it NEEDS to be brought forth again!
the nearings got vitamin b shots….it pisses me off to hear you liberal baby boomers sometimes……!!!!!
Another hearsay myth. Daniel best to “weed out” smear and gossip.
Scott Nearing just got your goat because he “won” his fight against the PTB.
Would not “cave in” to evil forces that have blossomed today.
When comparing life expectancy among various countries there are many variables, some of which may be unrelated to energy or medical care. The incidence of heart disease, cancer and stroke varies with ethnicity. Is there a genetic component related to the life expectancy of blacks and whites in the US? http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr62/nvsr62_07.pdf
There may be a genetic component. I expect that there is a education/opportunity/wage difference as well. In other words, within each race, life expectancy varies by education etc.
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Thanks Gail,
I must first declair I am a beef producer in Australia, so vested interest.
One difficulty with info on the health of meat is that much information worldwide emirates from the USA, where the majority of meat is from feedlots.
Ruminants were not designed to eat grain, and it appears that the enzymes in grain feed beef are significantly different from those of grazing animals. Also the energy used to grow grain, transport it to feedlots, maintain an artificial environment, transport wastes away is rediculous. Then to continue the absurdity, farmers buy oil based fertilizers to grow the grain.
My understanding is that this system really got going after Nixon subsidized corn production. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Other difficulties are that the grains we grow are very different from those our hunter gatherer ancestors ate. We have modified them significantly. Grain would have been a very very small part of the diet.
Unless you can buy your veg from a Permaculturalists, it will be produced in monocultures, protected from pests with chemicals and fertilized with petrochemicals.
I love working with grazing animals, and managing them in a way to mimick the great migrations. This system uses minimal chemical energy compared to factory horticulture, let’s animals have a natural life and sequests carbon and grows the microbial life in the soil. Soil that users chemicals for its fertility is just dirt.
So if you are educated and well of enough find a grazier who follows holistic management practices, and buy meat directly.
Cheers,
John
When I buy (small amounts) of meat for soup, as often as not it is lamb from Australia. I figure it has a good chance of being raised on grass, and probably has a lot less of the antibiotics and other things we run into in the US.
In Sonoma, grass fed meats from sources you know are readily available.
Factory Farming is not nutritionally, ethically, or environmentally viable.
Grass fed beef reduces Co2.
I visited the high school I graduated from in Wisconsin this week-end. Wisconsin was always known as “the dairy state”. Now all of the rolling pastures have been replaced with vast fields of corn and occasionally soybeans. The rows go up and over the hills–nothing like contour plowing. The cows are all hidden away in buildings.
The Men Who Made Us Fat – this is an outstanding presentation:
This series is very good. I got a chance to see the first two. I will work on seeing the last one.
Gail – An interesting article, hard to disagree with most of it. I too had an unfortunate experience that caused me to research healthy living. I eventually focussed on and adapted the Okinawa Diet, with input from The China Study.
Some points: #1 People are different (duh!) children, young adults, adults,
seniors and the aged, all have different dietary requirements. #2 I’d suggest sufficient exercise in excess of 20 minutes (white muscle instead of red) to become out of breath
two or three times a week, and stretch afterwards. #3 Fast once a month. There were good reasons to feast days and fast days, #4 The dairy industry has a superb marketing
technique – most people do not need dairy products and the calories are expensive.
#5 The US seems to use hormones excessively in meat production, and the
purveyors of corn syrup and refined sugar take advantage of the addictive
nature of their products. I try to avoid these where I can.
The saddest thing I see are kids who are morbidly obese — or even just slightly obese — when I see that I can’t help thinking that the parents should be charged with child abuse.
They are setting their kids up for a life of hell —- diabetes in their 20’s — heart disease to follow.
Allowing them to feed on garbage is slow motion murder — and of course when you are a tub of fat that sets the kid up for abuse from other kids at school (although soon enough it might be the fit kids that get abused because they are the freaks)
And the refrain I hear most from these parents is — oh johnny is not that big — you should see his friend thomas — now that kids is huge!
I tried to figure out exactly what you referring to. The China Study is a book. The Okinawa Program is also a book. They advocate very little meat consumption (mostly fish) and lots of vegetable and fruit consumption. The diet is also low fat.
Richard, excellent ideas, brother. I eliminated processed wheat, dairy, and corn syrup-laced “food” from my diet 10-15 years ago, and I’m so glad I did.
Some references FYI and that of readers:
Barry Sears (“The Zone”)
Floyd Chilton (“Inflammation Nation”)
William Davis (“Wheat Belly”)
Mark Sisson (“Mark’s Daily Apple” Website, which requires allowing oneself to get past the Hollywood/Malibu marketing to get to the substance, which is quite good)
Dean Ornish (PMRI – Preventative Medicine Research Institute)
Google the references at your leisure.
Gail,
I have also been on a vegetarian diet for the last 15 years. Gains: My blood sugar fluctuates less, the overall feel is better, no overweight. My doctor says everything looks good regarding vitamins, cholesterol etc.
My doctor asks why I don’t come in more often. When I do come in, test results are fine.
LOL!!! Good for you, Gail! I love to hear this. I, too, have a similar experience (knock wood, i.e., my head). My last four annual visits to a doctor for a physical resulted in him saying the same thing with a smirk, Come back in 5 years. 🙂
Seriously, good health is the most valuable asset one possesses, and the necessary time and effort invested in a healthy diet, exercise, and mutual aid and reciprocity of loved ones and one’s fellows is the best investment one can make. The cost of the investment is our time and good intentions. The predictable good returns SHOULD NOT BE pilfered by gov’t-sponsored and -protected insurers and the prohibitively costly medical industry.
The gov’t should be PAYING US FOR NOT COSTING others for our unhealthy habits and predictably costly outcomes.
I’m not jumping into the repartee regarding diet, although it is a great topic, because my wife and I switched to a vegan diet many years ago and the health results were amazing, but other people we talked to about it simply continued their regular high saturated fat diet. So evidently is a very personal, not easily altered decision.
http://www.oil-price.net/
Guess what – Today Brent went Sub One Hundred!: Down -1.04 to 99.16
& WTI closed out at 92.75 a barrel
I wonder where this pricing trend will bottom out.
As long as oil industry’s junk status debt is proped up by the int banking circles, nothing matters. The compressed outcome and panic will be that much more awfull.. Perhaps a little bit like the Scotland independence vote now, it was calm and non eventfull issue for months, suddenly today is the establishment in sheer panic mode. They would loose everything, political party dominions cemented for decades and centuries, the very last bits of international clout like UN veto seat, nuclear deterent related stuff etc. And in consequence later or sooner the most prized item of them all, the London City, western pillar hub for int finance.
I am afraid dropping oil prices, plus dropping commodity prices of many other kinds, is going to be our next big issue. I need to write a post on it.
I am sure that would make for a very interesting post, Gail.
Thanks for another excellent article Gail
Speaking of individual health, what about the health of the oceans? Here’s an article about ocean acidification.
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-un-climate-carbon-dioxide-20140909-story.html
U.N. climate agency reports carbon dioxide growing at alarming rate
The agency’s bulletin included a report on the greenhouse gas emissions’ effect on ocean quality for the first time. The oceans “cushion” the impact of carbon in the atmosphere by absorbing about a quarter of the worldwide emissions, the report said, but with alarming consequences for the water.
“The current rate of ocean acidification appears unprecedented at least over the last 300 million years,” the bulletin stated.
“It is high time the ocean, as the primary driver of the planet’s climate and attenuator of climate change, becomes a central part of climate change discussions,” said Watson-Wright.
The oceans take up about 8.8 pounds of carbon dioxide per person per day, the report said. Increased acidification alters “calcifying organisms” like coral, mollusks and algae and reduces the survival and growth rates of other aquatic species, the bulletin noted.
One thing that never seems to be adequately researched or discussed is the role of grains in the diet. So many of the recent recommendations are along the lines of “all grains are bad” which doesn’t match my own personal experience. Lots of “modern breeds of wheat are worse” which also doesn’t really help one understand the why.
The reason I bring this up is that I, and my family, have eaten a fair bit of wheat, oats, etc. pretty much daily and to no ill effect. Now, these are most likely modern varieties because getting ahold of bulk bags of the special varieties wasn’t really an option when I was young and isn’t an option for me now so I cannot imagine that is what my parents ate and served either. However, we’ve always ground our own, baked our own. I think I learned to bake bread by age 6 or 7. Yes, most of these are sourdough loaves but some are quick breads like with old bananas or cinnamon rolls as a treat here and there. But in all of the information floating the all grains are bad message seems to exclude the fact that the majority of the world either eats their grains as a soaked and simmered porridge, a fermented bread or some other method of eating that actually includes most of the fiber of the grain.
I do wish someone could point me to something that said eating whole grains were bad or we could begin to recognize that the grains available to the majority in the US are highly-refined-portion-of-grain-product. And begin being clear that it really is the highly-refined-portion-of-grain-product that is not healthy.
Yup. I eat wheat probably 5 times a week. A couple years ago i et it every meal. Crack it boil it and serve it like rice. I will say that it doesnt give me the good energy that barley does but at $12 a bushel (60lb) wheat is a very good value. I have friends that would rather wrassle a bear than eat wheat and I would hope that this is from real feedback from their bodies not the wheat belly information. My body likes barley and rice better than wheat nowadays but decent rice and hulled barley are 3x the price of wheat. Im sure the wheat belly folk have substance to their elimination of wheat from their diet but my take is everyones body is different. Now sugar.. that stuff is bad, I dont eat it and on the rare occasion i take honey with my coffee i spin out like the energizer bunny. Even if wheat is bad for a individual Im not sure that extends to the living food,wheat grass juice ,elixir of all life.
I have recently heard the adage, “stay away from eating things that are white. White Sugar, White Rice, White Flour, and Milk.” They are all white because they are processed and refined. Instead try brown sugar or honey, brown or wild rice, whole grain flour, and cut out the milk altogether, but if you need it drink it whole or raw.
There definitely is a difference in how grains are prepared. A big part of the US problem is the highly refined products used in white bread, crackers, and chips. High fructose corn syrup often gets added as well.
I have not looked into the detail research. There is so much research today, there may very well be research of the type you mention. I know I have avoided the highly processed types of grains for a long time, but do eat whole grains and some coarsely ground grains.
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Dear Gail and All
It may interest you to read about a recent debate between advocates of a Paleo diet, a Mediterranean diet, and a Nutritarian diet:
https://www.functionalmedicine.org/content-uploads/movementlatesummer14/?utm_source=Movement+Late+Summer+2014+-+Actives&utm_campaign=Late+Summer+Movement+-+Actives+&utm_medium=email
Flip over to page 6.
I think it is fair to say that the dietary advice business tends to fall apart after one get’s past the ‘eat more veggies and stop eating industrial food’ advice is given. I remember a few years ago someone said that the best advice was simply to ‘eat anything but American’. However, with globalization, everyone is now eating ‘American’.
Which brings me to the observation that this post is actually mixing two different questions:
1. How can I avoid chronic disease?
2. Why don’t people in the US get as much bang for their health care buck as people in other countries?
Don Stewart
The health care debate is highly politicized. I’d check out two web sites:
http://nutritionfacts.org/video/from-table-to-able/
http://plantpositive.com/
Both of these sites are objective, use a lot of primary sources, and reference actual studies. Plant Positive is polemical but thorough. But because a lot of studies themselves are politically (or commercially) motivated, they need to be dealt with. Nutrition Facts is great if you just want factual information on various dietary issues.
Thanks for the links!
I agree that the heavy reliance on processed foods is a big issue. Almost any change from that would be preferable. This is why almost any change that eliminates them is a big improvement. Historically, people have lived on a wide range of diets.
I am not talking much about “bang for the healthcare buck” in this article. I think that at least part of the higher cost is because Americans are, in fact, sicker than people elsewhere. I know that overweight people tend to have more health problems. If Americans are more overweight than others, this would be an expected contributing factor.
Gail
Barry Popkin at UNC wrote The World is Fat a couple of years ago. As I recall, the fattest women in the world were in Egypt, while the fattest men were in Mexico, at the time.
If you look at the fattest countries, you will find the US lumped in with Russia, Germany. Poland, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, South Africa, Spain, Italy, Britain, the Czech Republic, Bolivia, Peru, Venzuela, most of Central America, Mexico, and Canada. If we take fatness as the single best indicator of the need of the population for medical intervention, then we see that none of our comparative countries spend nearly as much as we do. Some of the countries have poor results in terms of longevity, but Germany, Britain, Spain, Italy and Canada have better results than we do, while spending less money.
You may not want to address the money issue, but it is lurking there anyway.
Don Stewart
PS When you look at specifics in some poor countries, things you might not think of become important. For example, in Mexico the water in the schools is not safe to drink. So the children tend to drink soft drinks…and diabetes is exploding.
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I would not be surprised if Health problems are actually created and hoped for in order to maintain and expand the current Healthcare industry. Why?
Well how about this: “Olive Garden Offers 7 Weeks of Endless Pasta for $100 — Until Promotion Crashes Site. On Monday, the restaurant chain offered 1,000 people, beginning at 3 p.m. ET, a VIP pass that would grant them as much pasta, salad, bread and soft drinks as their stomachs could handle for seven weeks.
http://mashable.com/2014/09/08/olive-garden-promo/
While we are on the subject of obesity or at least on how to achieve it or type 2 diabetes..
“Mapping Record US Obesity By State”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-09/mapping-record-us-obesity-state
This is a link to the report itself. http://healthyamericans.org/report/115/
“I would not be surprised if Health problems are actually created and hoped for in order to maintain and expand the current Healthcare industry. Why?”
I absolutely agree, Rodster. Our Federal government has become best buddies with corporations that help fund political campaigns. Politicians for lobbyists and vice versa in a symbiosis that works against us the regular folk. Whatever is good for the corporations come first and the people come last. Fast food and processed food corporations indirectly supporting the medical and pharm corporations, while the passive followers eat their way to poor health and bankruptcy, while the government turns a blind eye.
What a great idea!!!
Now what we need is Big Pharma to buy up fast food restaurants — launch more of these awesome offers — and package them with various high blood pressure and cholesterol drugs …
The cost of the food would be subsidized by the purchase of the drugs — thereby allowing the company to offer much larger portions — and round we go in a circle of glory.
Capitalism — at its very finest!
I am not sure I would be quite that cynical.
There certainly is not much support for changes that would make the population healthier–like going to “continental size” portions for food in restaurants.
I have a friend who owns a couple of Harvey’s franchises. The problem you have is that when your competitor super sizes you have to match — because the gluttons want more… they want bigger … they want to stuff their gullets with as much as they can for as cheaply as they can.
So you end up either following the lead — or you are out of business.
And now we are where we are – riddled with heart disease and diabetes…
Aren’t we not a clever lot!
Thanks Gail for posting this! I note that there is no dent in the life expectancy from a 50% (or more) reduction in the oil supply to the world in the next 30-50 years (or possibly sooner). Pretty low chance that TPTB would ever post a bleak view I guess…
I think this life expectancy is calculated used recent death rates. It is not intended to be a true estimate of what will happen in the future.
Thanks for this Gail, I am seriously thinking of going vegetarian again. I think it would be a good experiment for my weight loss effort. Im not really over weight, 170 at 5’10” 37 years old, but I have been developing a bit of a belly recently. We grow plenty of veggies amd fruit so I can do it at a lower cost.
Most of this information is not new to me, but sometimes people just need to be reminded of what they already know. Another great article.
This is my first comment here, although I have been reading this blog for a long time, and really appreciate your analysis Gail. Regarding the food: I am largely in agreement with the poster referencing Weston A. Price, and also with those who wrote regarding the importance of avoiding inflammatory factors in the diet, particularly those found in processed foods and/or modern forms of foods such as modern wheat, pasteurized, homogenized milk, etc. I recently read a book entitled “The Scots Kitchen”, by F. Marian McNeill, first published in 1929, and reissued recently. it’s a fascinating account traditional Scottish cookery throughout the ages. What I was struck by was the huge amount of meat and other animal products eaten by the Scots! Of course they ate oats too, lots of them. The oats were not like our modern oats thought; they varied by region, and were grown, dried and harvested in very particular ways that added nutrients to the soil for the next year’s crop, and that made them highly nutritious and mineral rich in ways we can only dream of. The meat included all parts of the animal from head to tail, including bones (for soup) and organs. Fish, especially salmon, of course, was prevalent in Scotland too. And seaweed. Vegetables actually formed a very minor portion of the Scots diet until the nineteenth century, although nettles and a few other herbs were commonly used for seasoning. Interestingly, though, the Scots were known for centuries for their robust strength and physical health, mental acuity, and fighting prowess.
We didn’t eat a lot of meat as I grew up, but it definitely was from all parts of the animal. My mother grew up on a farm, and the more salable parts were sold off, leaving the family with the parts that other customers did not. Now we rarely even see those parts in the store. There is concern that liver might be toxic, with all of the stuff the animals have eaten.
The liver question is a good one. Liver is where toxins are processed out of the body, so tend not to remain there; they are not stored in the liver. Even so, if you eat liver, as I do, it is wise to make sure the liver comes from a humanely raised, grass-fed animal. Liver is a powerhouse of nutrition, so I try to eat it at least once a week: plenty of vitamins A and D, so hard to find in other foods, as well as B-vitamins, including a lot of B-12, iron and other minerals. As nutrient dense as it comes! And I buy beef bones and chicken feet at the farmer’s market for bone broths and stock. I feel it has really helped my health a great deal. But then, I have Scottish ancestry :).
There is quite telling paragraph in Dimitry Orlov’s “Thriving in the Age of Collapse” (posted previously by John Doyle) regarding the US healthcare system.
The United States is a very special case in having made basic medicine into a profit-making
industry rather than a social service. The medical system here has become a parasite,
bloated and ineffectual. The doctors are saddled with unreasonable regulations and financial
liabilities.
When it comes to medicine, almost any country in the world will be better than one that
is full-up with unemployed medical specialists, insurance consultants, and medical billing
experts. In Belize, which is quite a poor country, I received prompt and excellent free
emergency medical care from a Cuban medic. In the U.S., in similar circumstances, I had
to wait 8 hours at an emergency room, then was seen for five minutes by a sleep-deprived
intern who scribbled out a prescription for something that is available without a prescription
almost everywhere else in the world. Then there ensued a paper battle between the
hospital and the insurance company, lasting for many months, over whether the hospital
could charge for a doctor’s visit on top of the emergency room visit. Apparently, in U.S.
emergency rooms, doctors are optional.
kesar, well said. See my comment above.
I am self-insured and have high-deductible Obummercares “ensurance” (of profits for the insurers and medical industry). When I ever go to a doctor for other than annual physical (no cost to me under “Obummercares”), I try to pay cash if the cost is reasonably affordable, saving 35-40% off what the medical provider would have charged were the insurer billed. Medications (antibiotics and pain relievers, for example) can be 50% off or more for cash payers!
While not precise, the difference between the cash payment and insurance billing is approximately the amount needed for a profit for the insurance middleman.
The ~40% amount is equivalent to what it costs the US in “dis-ease care” spending as a share of public and private wages!!!
It costs the US 27% of private GDP for “dis-ease care”.
“Dis-ease care” spending is an equivalent to 167% of total corporate profits.
Americans have no clue generally speaking how much gov’t is sponsoring our being ripped off to enrich medical professionals, insurers, and drug and biomed companies. This is absolutely APPALLING and something has to give.
yup. All of the third world has better access to medicine than the USA. Now some of this may be a distorted viewpoint because of the buying power of the US$ in the third world. I will also say that i\I have run into some real quack doctors in the third world that had no talent aptitude or education. Perhaps because all the ones with those qualities were in Europe or the USA. In my opinion what is needed is the middle ground- good GPs that actually like people not $, that can do their best with what resources a ordinary joe can afford. This “standard of care” BS is putting medical care out of the reach of most. The so called affordable health care act is so incredibly FUBAR thast it boggles the mind, and at its root, once again infinite consumption model, because we are all so very special.
I worked in medical malpractice insurance, before I got involved with energy. I have a lot of opportunity to see (at least some of) what goes wrong in the healthcare industry. Personal involvement over the years (such as taking elderly relatives to doctors) has added to opportunities to see what goes wrong.
Gail – I wonder if your colleagues are aware of this blog and what they think…
I seem to have a lot of followers from diverse backgrounds, including actuarial and academic. I am at a high school reunion this week end, and have run into someone who reads at least some of my posts from there as well. I presume their view is positive, if they come back for more.
There is a barrier to saying something like “Insurance won’t work in the future,” since insurance companies want to plan for a great an glorious future. So it is hard for actuaries to become too closely aligned with what I am saying. Academics have to do research in areas where they can get funding, so while they listen to what I say, they are looking at climate change, carbon capture and storage, and other research areas that generate more grant revenue.
https://www.ascp.com/sites/default/files/file_Task_Force_2009_FINAL-3.pdf
The typical American age 64-69 has 14 prescriptions, and those age 80-84 have 18 prescriptions. Are we bleeping INSANE?! THIS HAS TO STOP!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/19/the-two-most-important-numbers-in-american-health-care/
http://tinyurl.com/pgra36j
50-65% of dis-ease care spending is on the sickest 5-10%, 80% on the sickest 20%, and 90% on the sickest 30%, whereas the vast majority of spending on the sickest 5-10% to 20-30% is due to conditions resulting from smoking, unhealthy diet, excessive alcohol consumption, obesity, and aging past age 50 with these conditions.
That leaves 10% of spending for the healthiest 70% for routine care, prevention, education, etc. OUTRAGEOUS!!!
The healthiest 80-90% should not be paying prohibitively costly private insurance for the insurers, doctors, hospitals, and biomedical and pharma firms to profit from OBSCENELY COSTLY treatments for the sickest 10-20%. This is an OUTRAGEOUS RIPOFF of healthy people that is bankrupting households, firms, and gov’ts.
We need a two-tier system with single payer, folding Obummercares into Medicare and Medicaid: (1) VERY LOW-PREMIUM, high-deductible insurance for the healthiest 70-80% and (2) Medicare for the sickest 20-30% with rationing or refusal of costly procedures and treatments for those over age 65 that do not add to longevity, productivity, and quality of life.
The top 0.1-1% to 10% can still have their private insurance, providers, clinics, and hospitals, but the rest of us need to pay a reasonably affordable price for what we consume, with all manner of incentives and discounts for healthy lifestyles and health outcomes. Healthier people should pay LESS, NOT FOR THE SICKEST SO THAT THE PROVIDERS AND INSURERS CAN GET RICH AT OUR EXPENSE!!!
End once and for all the preposterous BS that effectively is gov’t-sponsored profiting by insurers, doctors, hospitals, and biomed and pharma from unhealthy diet and lifestyle, aging, dying, and death.
I have a 15 year old dog. I had to take him to the vet to get a prescription for dog pain pills and anti anxiety medication. I had to build a ramp so he can hobble outside to do his business. Now when he has to be carried outside to pee, I’m going to take him to the vet to be put down. I will shed a tear or two. My 71 year old mother in law needs all that and more yet my wife wont take her to be put down. As long as the Medicare money holds out she will get her care. Are we bankrupting our country doing this? Yes, but who is going to man the death panels? Remember, one of these days you are going to be old to.
Thank you for honoring your k-9 friend! Yes there are hard decisions for us and no easy answers. I know a guy that didnt like the diapers- they installed a remote control. I shit you not(pun intended).
Most of Europeans eat vegetables like tomatoes from Almeria in Spain.
http://www.amusingplanet.com/2013/08/the-greenhouses-of-almeria.html
When you look at these vegetables they look healthy, without any spots or distortions. In fact they are all from hydro- and aeroponic cultivations of GMO plants. These plants are designed to require the base nutrients (N, P, K, Ca, Mg, S), but much less supplement elements (Fe, Mn, Mo, Cu, Zn, B, Cl). The plants are fed with fully artificial mix of fertilizers. Their nutritional value for humans is therfore decreased, not mentioning their flavour and savour.
A good movie about modern food production
Thanks!
Kale is good food easy to grow. good for dogs too. Running will mess you up, power walk up steep inclines or bike instead.
Agree – running pounds the joints. I am a big fan of biking… I also find getting on the shovel in the garden to be excellent exercise.
Paul wrote:
” I also find getting on the shovel in the garden to be excellent exercise.”
Exercising while getting work done is the best – going to a gym is just a waste of energy.
And that produces an end product… food….
Good points!
Good point about the deficiancy in trace micronutrients even in organic/perma agricultural setup.
Now, imagine the increasing use of aquaponics for vegetables and its growing share on the market, especially in Europe, it’s very disgusting to eat, but obviously way cheaper even in contrast to mediocre “bio” produce. Netherlands and Spain are the prime suspects but not the only culprits there, in the first case it’s allowed only by their cheap nat gas to heat and operated those gargantuan robotic greenhouses. While in other more traditional rural ag regions you get the veggies from real earth soil on the land, but there is little or no animal sub cycle on the farm, so again deficiency in trace micronutrients and even basic set of nutrients. Plus the heavy dosage of dangerous chemicals on top of it. Complete overhaul of the system is needed, but that’s project for decades and centuries. However, widespread cancer and male infertility resulting from eating this civilization’s miracle garbage food might get us way sooner..
PS if you watch the battle videos from Ukraine in HD as of lately, the rich black soil after ~80years of oily style monocrop agriculture devastation is still there, at least in some parts of it, quite visible from the soldiers deep dug outs, the black fertile soil is very deep even today, it must have been crazy before that hundred years ago, yep stepps are the fertility paradise
Aquaponics–I suppose all one does is add the right cocktail of minerals, and one is ready to go. The question becomes whether everything is included that we would be getting under ideal circumstances. It is not a very sustainable practice, either.
Hi Gail,
Been reading for a long time and really appreciate your insights. This is a very difficult topic to study in detail as there is little way to experiment with large controls. What we have learned though through empirical study backs up what you suggest. In particular, Weston Price found that native cultures, “first peoples”, whatever term was applied had diets that were fairly high in animal FATS in particular. This was critical, but those fats had to be developed from the proper feeding of those animals. That included highly mineralized soils (or other ways of concentrating the minerals). Today the cost of mineral dense foods preclude it from the diet of anything less than the top 5% of a country like the US. That would include having to make sacrifices for many of them and even then the food may not be enough to keep us as healthy as the peoples studied by Dr Price. Further, grain eating was generally only done after FERMENTATION to avoid the anti-nutrients in the grain that reduce the minerals available to our body from diet even further. Clearly this compounding effect is extremely negative. The early 1900’s health issues shoe very clearly what happened when this food was loosed upon unsuspecting people and before science had put window dressing over the worst problems.
Bottom line is that calories are in excess, minerals are in deficiency and many other factors are way out of balance with how we developed and with what we can glean from cultures that subsisted on food directly from their environment (not drugs, chemicals, etc.). We need both high quality animals AND plants in our diet and environment for it to be healthy. Balance is key and balance is distinctly non-modern.
Thanks for your thoughts, also. There is clearly a lot to this story. I know that human breast milk is high in fats, suggesting that fats are something that our body needs. I was not aware of fats ideally having high concentrations of the proper minerals in them.
Last year, when my wife was pregnant, she would buy skim milk to drink. When she wasnt looking I poured the skim milk out and filled the bottle with locally produced grass fed cream, plus a little water. I also would add 50,000 iu of vitamin D, I bought off Amazon. My wife and i are both smaller than average, but our daughter has been in the 98th percentile in size. Our friend, a doctor, had a son @ the same time and he is a lot scrawner, hahaha
6 reasons why skim milk is a total scam
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/reasons-why-skim-milk-is-a-total-scam/story-fneuzkvr-1226770294417
The Inuit – until recently – ate mostly food sourced from the land and nothing processed.
I was up in Resolute Bay and some other areas in the north a few years ago and visited some villages — I was told that cancer was virtually unknown — but now that processed food is ubiquitous they have all the same problems that southerners have…
Interestingly these people would have consumed mostly meat as fruit and vegetables would not have been available most of the year…
There seem to be a variety of diets that work–we don’t really understand why. I am sure that their activity level would be fairly high.
My research (with me as the guinea pig!) seems to indicate that optimum health requires minimizing inflammation triggers as the first step. These triggers include sugar, grass seed flours like wheat, polyunsaturated fat oils from seeds (corn, soy, canola), alcohol, dirty meat (ie, raised in confinement using drugs and grain diets) and toxins (food additives, pesticides, etc).
Persistent inflammation is the soil in which chronic disease incubates.
As a side effect this anti-inflammatory approach also is a craving reducing approach. Reducing sugar spike/crash based cravings is really a big value.
Once that is in place it is all about eating nutrient dense food, high quality fats and paying attention to a “goldilocks” approach to protein (not too little, not too much).
Interval training is really valuable, too. I am pretty religious about it both in the gym and on the track.
Great resource for anti-inflammatory diet: http://www.coolinginflammation.blogspot.com
-jd
Yeah, this is what I follow too – first treat the inflammation. Introduced to it through Art Ayers blog.
Amazing how obesity and inflammatory conditions like arthritis, diabetes II and skin defects can be cut by replacing processed stuff with dense nutrition.
In energy terms, Gail doesn’t address the Jumbo in the room – consumption of saturated fat. The Jaminets have an interesting thesis on breast milk nutrition across a range of mammals – early chapters of the Perfect Health Diet – and recommend a ratio of calories from fat/carb/protein at about 60/25/15. Eat some meat, but more importantly eat the fat that goes with the meat. And some olive oil.
Someone sent me a link to the work of Stephanie Seneff at MIT. She has a lot of interesting things to say. Some is on Saturated Fat, which she has no problem with. Some of it is on “Roundup,” which appears in our food supply in much greater amounts with GMO foods. She thinks it is connected with the rise in obesity. She also thinks that a sulfur deficiency in our diet is a problem. Also, too much aluminum exposure. http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/
Thanks for your thoughts. What you are saying sounds right to me. Inflammation was clearly a big part of my problem twenty years ago.
I see that that the http://www.coolinginflammation.blogspot.com has 200+ posts.
Art De Vany in his blog about paleo-fitness/nutrition digs really deep.
The unhealthiest part of the American population is the descendants of former slaves. If this segment is removed from consideration the remaining population is no more unhealthy or prone to criminal behavior than our European counter parts. If they were once again forced out into the countryside and put to hard labor their health problems would disappear and their opportunity to prey on the rest of society would be diminished.
When abundant oil is no longer available many of our “First World” problems such as too rich a diet will disappear as people of all stripes are driven back to the land and have to follow mules all day. My grandfather died in 1992 of heart disease brought on from brown lung he developed after breathing cotton dust while plowing cotton fields. He was 89 so it must not have been that debilitating.
Descendants of former slaves tend to have limited education and low incomes. There are countries that provide better “safety nets” than the United States. My understanding is that even high-income Americans don’t do all that well health-wise, compared to other countries. There certainly is a lot of heart disease and high blood pressure.
Wow, Daddio, in some countries near the Isle of Wight you’d be prosecuted for writing less than that first paragraph of yours. “Hate speech”. This does of course not in any way conflict with a concept of freedom of speech which is assiduously cherished to the extent considered appropriate given the need to frighten people out of saying some things.
The U.S. still has a few freedoms left. You can wear a vale if you want unlike those control freaks in France.
Thank God I’m too poor to travel. Imaging a country where printing historic facts is a crime.
I don’t think anyone is taking issue with the facts — it is the context that I have a problem with — and the assumption that certain races are more prone to criminality.
African Americans are a culture with slave roots. Race is only a consideration because most members of that culture are Black. The African American experience is unique. I don’t imagine you watch too much MTV. This is people being as non White as can be done. I have employed and worked with Blacks and Hispanics. I have no trouble with people who just want to work and get along. Both my daughters at one time had black boyfriends.
I think your statement around your daughter’s dating lives is a) tacky as it is none of the publics business and 2) falls into this category http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Association_fallacy which is even more disrespectful of the readers and commentors here. I would politely request you avoid such statements in the future.
“I have no trouble with people who just want to work and get along”
I am rolling in the aisles laughing at that one! Can’t we all just git along!!!
I’ve got a good friend in HK — MBA former banker type — he kinda has gotten along…..
I will presume to speak for him…. when I first met him we were out for dinner and talking music – Neil Young came up — he had never heard of him — I was incredulous…. he said Paul you need to understand — when I worked in Chicago I was treated ok in the office but never was I invited out by white colleagues to dinner or anything — so I don’t know about this kind of music…. as he put it ‘I never had the privilege’ of the company of others….
And this guy is one of the most gregarious people you will ever meet.
Now let’s take this further — does ‘get along’ mean that when you are a Harvard professor and you get abused for trying to enter your own home in an upscale neighbourhood because you are the wrong colour that you should say ‘yes suh – yes massah – I will done be a good boy — I woan make no trouble for you officah’ (that happened)
Or how about if this happens to your husband http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En5linhM7Qo Do you behave like a good boy and juss ‘get along with the white folk’ ????
I sent this to my above-mentioned friend in HK with this message in front of the link:
Why people don’t rise up and destroy entire cities is beyond me…
His retort — come on man – this shit happens ALL THE TIME… this isn’t nothing new.
He’s one of those blacks who ‘gets along’ because he knows that who runs the show — better to get along that be angry …
I tell you if I was in those shoes I just might snap … and I’d be like millions of other blacks who are unable to ‘get along’ — and I’d be in a hole in the ground with bars like a caged animal for the rest of my life.
We hip there daddio? We cool??? How you like my jive talkin?
Can’t we all just get a bong?
LOL! Good one.
O would like to see the longevity versus year graph for four groups of Americans African, Hispanic, European, and northern Asia (Chinese/Japanese/Korean). I expect that would be for shortest to longest live expectancy. Due to r versus K selection. Also reinforced by economic position reflecting traits associated with r versus K strategies. I suppose life insurance rates set by race would not be possible in the U.S. or E.U.
There seem to be genetic differences by race. I know that some American Indians for example, are very prone to obesity. It has to do with something that someone has called the “thrifty gene.” So I am not sure that the issue is necessarily r versus K strategies.
I don’t know precisely how life insurance rates are set (since I worked in the property-casualty area, not life insurance). I expect that health history and occupation are used in setting rates. That may very well get a person to a similar effect as rating by race.
One point that people don’t often think about is that an awfully lot of coverage is of the form of annuity coverage, rather than payment at death. Social Security collects the same percentage of wages from everyone (up to a selected wage limit), regardless of race or health status. This means that poor people and smokers help subsidize the rates for the rest of us. They tend not to live as long, so they collect less. (I am not sure how disability coverage and the higher percentage of ending income that poor people collect fits in with this. IIRC, they still come out behind.)
With respect to annuities bought from insurance companies, it is mostly the wealthy who buy them. They tend to live longer than average.
‘prone to criminal behavior’
I was not aware that certain races were more prone than others. I have cousins who have done time. I have one cousin who is a heroin junky and no doubt turns tricks.
I am white. They are white.
I thought criminal behaviour was more related to the economic opportunities and status of a person.
From my understanding of the former slaves in America (I count a few close friends as coming from that group of people) it has been very difficult to attain a higher economic status — primarily because of the racism they have encountered since they were freed..
If anyone doesn’t believe that — I suggest this book http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Like_Me
Black Like Me is a nonfiction book by journalist John Howard Griffin first published in 1961. Griffin was a white native of Dallas, Texas and the book describes his six-week experience travelling on Greyhound buses (occasionally hitchhiking) throughout the racially segregated states of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia passing as a black man.
I once saw a clip of a comedian — I forget his name but he was a big name — one of his jokes went like this:
You folks look at me up here — all the fame all the glory — all the money — I got everything you want — but you would not ever consider changing place with me — ever …
Because I am black.
I believe genetics paly a huge role also. My father in law ate 4 eggs ,6 strips of bacon , a large steak of some kind, and drank 2 or 3 drinks of whiskey probably on the average of 5 days a week for 65 to 70 years. He is now 96 and still lives at home and takes care of himself . I forgot to mention he also smoked 3 packs a day for about 40 years. i asked him a cople of years ago when he had last had a physical when he said he didn’t feel as good as he used to and he said ,”about two weeks after Pearl Harbor” I am not condoning his lifestyle but it does work for some people.
The food his generation ate – and in particular what they ate when they were developing as fetuses, babies and young children was much better than what we eat. The animals were raised more traditionally. It is almost impossible to make direct comparisons. For example, cattle raised on all grass in mineral dense pastures in the deep midwest may provide fats that can save your life, but in general Beef is bad for you because 99.9999% is not raised that way. He also likely feels worse now at 97 than he would because he’s been exposed to bad food in increasing quantity his entire life.
At least he got a good start. Kids today hardly have a chance.
Yes, a lot of studies are based on beef raised as we see today, grain fed and fattened. Cattle are not equipped to eat so much grain and become sick as a result. So if studies counsel against beef they would be correct, but wrong, because all grass fed beef has benefits lost today.
IMO the famed wagyu beef is highly prised but spending most of their lives in stalls fattened with grain means nutritionally that meat is second rate.
newt, what kind of work did your father do? Physical? Sitting? Combination?
After the war he logged for about 20 yrs. After that he farmed and ranched.
He was very active and still is for his age. Gave up cutting his own firewood about 6-7 yrs ago.
Gail, may have a lot to do with the information of huge poisoning scandal contained in my epidemics paper which has been prevented from publication so far by the medical pseudo-science you can see here:
http://www.autismcauses.info/2008/01/peer-reviewers-of-pseudoneurotoxicology.html
http://www.autismcauses.info/2008/01/peer-reviewers-of-pseudoneurotoxicology.html
You are talking about mercury-based amalgam fillings being used. It is hard to see how these fillings could be good for us. I know I had those fillings removed long ago for my family. The dentist who I was seeing (who has since retired) was convinced that her health problems were related to all of the amalgam fillings she had come in contact with over the years. I don’t think she would say this publicly though–she told me this over lunch.
I have not studied how prevalent amalgam fillings are in the US and elsewhere. They could very well be adding to our health problems.
Something like 50% have amalgams in US and UK and various other “advanced” countries. Hence major epidemics rather than minor. This wk happens to be “Mercury-free dentistry week” – detailed at http://www.mercola.com/
it is recommended here in Aus that we should leave mercury fillings alone. There a much greater risk of poisoning from digging the mercury out it is said.
Most of my Mercury fillings have long been removed because they had failed. I have 1 or 2 left but Dental medicine is so advanced today at least here in the US that a good Dentist and technician will avoid allowing the Mercury to enter your body.
This is an article I found called Mercury Exposure and Children’s Health that has free access. It points out that mercury fillings go into the air if a person is cremated, adding to mercury pollution.
This is a direct link to the Mercury-free dentistry week link. http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/09/09/environmental-mercury-pollution.aspx The point the article makes is not about any harmful effect on dental patients. Instead, it is about harmful effect that the mining and whole chain of events in producing mercury has. Regardless of the reason, it is hard to see why we need more mercury in the environment.
Honestly, I’d rather eat stuff that tastes good and shave 10 years off of my life expectancy than even touch any of that vegan crap. :p
I wonder if you will think the same near the end of your shortened life?
Probably not, but such is life, full of regrets. 😉
If one were to consciously and voluntarily refuse the prohibitively costly late-life treatments (cardiac surgery, diabetes-related treatments, chemo, radiation, hip and knee replacement from joint deterioration and being overweight, etc) offered and provided because of the result of one’s eating whatever one likes, requiring everyone else to pay for it, then go for it! Live today!
However, most want to indulge themselves as they wish and then demand that someone else pay for their obscenely costly medical services when they’ve damaged their health by age 50s-80s (or age with the conditions).
Were “the market” operating in medical services, self-induced poor health would be too high a personal cost to bear for the vast majority of us and thus one would have little choice but to engage in healthy lifestyle and diet (with allowances for exceptions for congenital conditions and communicable diseases that are not the result of lifestyle choices) or go bankrupt and/or die.
50-65% of US medical spending is on the sickest 5-10%, and 20% is spent on costly end-of-life procedures for the elderly. The vast majority of the spending is for people with conditions resulting from smoking, alcohol abuse, unhealthy diet, and no exercise, and then aging with the chronic conditions (60-65% being female).
We could DRAMATICALLY reduce spending on medical services by creating a two-tier system of low-cost, high-deductible, single-payer medical insurance for the 80-90% healthy people who rarely need medical care, and then a gov’t-subsidized Medicare-like system for the chronically ill, rationing care for those who refuse to change their habits and/or are too old for costly procedures to improve longevity and quality of life.
Medical care should cease being financialized via for-profit private insurance.
“Health care” policy should be primarily about education and prevention and not “dis-ease promotion” for profit at the expense of bankrupting households, firms, and gov’ts.
No one but the top 1% can ACTUALLY afford to become seriously ill and pay for the necessary medical services. We have a “dis-ease-promotion-for-profit” system for the top 1%, many of whom are doctors and insurance, biomed, hospital, and pharma execs.
The situation is appallingly “sickening”, and that’s no laughing matter.
I like that “too old” part. Who decides what too old is and what the budget should be? My mother in law is 72 and her care is $800 a day. Her quality of life is good, she has been this way for 8 years and looks good to go 5 or so more. I want to be in the room with you and my wife when you try to pull her treatments. Me? I’m partially disabled, I have a stash and before I get too frail to go out of my house by myself, I’m using it.
72 years is a full life. Why 5-10 years more? 20? $115,000/year for her care? Who pays for that? Who’s getting rich off that? No society can afford to spend that kind of money on tens of millions of aging Boomers. Are you kidding?
Think about it. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars to age to death? Insane.
If each of us had to pay most of the costs for the care your mother is receiving, it wouldn’t exist because no one but the top 0.1-1% could afford it.
Sol going home in “Soylent Green” and the remedy in “Futurama” are the practical solutions. We need to grow up about living and dying.
I missed the “a day” part of the cost ($800 a day) when I read the post originally. I will have to agree that this is reaching absurdity.
I am sure that this kind of care is adding to the availability of jobs in the healthcare field, but we have reached the point where we are reaching seriously diminishing returns. Somehow, we need to find a way around this kind of situation.
Just made the 20 mile trip over there to wish the father in law happy 77th birthday. My wife made a pound cake to take over, his favorite. Mother in law was perky after coming back from dialysis and had a small piece. Half of it came back for me to eat. Fortunately my son in law is here to help me and unfortunately my 5′ 4″ 190 lb daughter is also. They are moving into their new ( built in 1967) home TOMORROW after living with us for five years. Maybe she will feel inspired to cook healthier in her own kitchen.
Good points.
When I see people who I know have lived badly and are now elderly and suffering … I of course feel badly for them — but on the other hand I also think they brought this on themselves so are undeserving of much in the way of pity.
The things you outline are one way of looking at things, but there is probably more to the situation than what you see. It is not entirely citizen’s fault if their diet is bad, if that is what is being sold in the grocery stores and offered in restaurants. There seems to be a good chance that things beyond most people’s control are contributing to the obesity epidemic (low nutrients in food, intestinal flora being “messed up” by residual Round Up left in food and other factors, grain ground very fine, Omega 3 loss in diet, etc). People don’t just decide suddenly to become fatter–it is more likely that some characteristics of our food supply makes us fatter.
There is definitely an issue with end-of-life care. If doctors get paid for whatever they do and hospitals get paid for filling up beds and performing procedures on patients, there is a tendency to encourage way too much end-of-life care. We discovered when my husband’s parents were alive that it is now quite difficult to work around the system. If the elderly person is in a “home” of some sort, and the workers at the home detect a problem, there is a whole sequence of events that seems to be put in place that ends up with the elderly person visiting an emergency room, and ultimately being put in the hospital. Since they aren’t actually dying, end of life directives don’t count.
There are issues, too, with patients who have cancer being encouraged to have treatments, long after hope of recovery is gone.
Also, surgery being performed on very elderly patients, where the chance of long-term success is low.
The Extraordinary Science of Addictive Junk Food
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/24/magazine/the-extraordinary-science-of-junk-food.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Reminds me of George Burns commenting on the secret of longevity: “No booze, no cigars, no women. You won’t actually live longer, but it will seem longer!”
But you can stay out of the “centre aisles” and eat Real Food that still tastes good.
Time does seem to pass more slowly when all the fun is removed!
“Time does seem to pass more slowly when all the fun is removed!”
When someone asked Einstein to explain relativity, he is reputed to have said, “It’s like when you spend a minute sitting on a hot stove, it can seem like an hour, but if you spend an hour sitting with a pretty girl, it can seem like a minute.”
I have a friend who until he got married pretty much only ate meat and pizza. One of our friends at one point mentioned that this was not a very healthy diet — the response was ‘tell it to someone who gives a %#@&’
A rather amusing retort.
But if you think about it — he makes perfect sense — you can eat all the kale and reduce your meat intake — and exercise daily — but the end game will be the same — you will die eventually — and you may not outlive someone who eats ‘rubbish’
John Candy — a noted foodie and glutton — is a perfect example — he enjoyed food and indulged and he was dead very young because of it — but I bet you if you could have spoken to him on his death bed and asked ‘would you rather have been vegan and lived 30 more years would you have done it differently’ — I expect he would have said no way.
I totally see your point.
However I also see that one can eat healthy food that tastes very good so that is the path I have taken….
And more importantly even if my pizza eating friend and I both live till 80 — I can pretty much guarantee you I will enjoy the latter years of my life while he will spend half his time visiting the doctor and working out which pill has to be taken at which time.
People say they don’t give a &^%$ now — but when the consequences of poor living hit — many of them do have regrets…
Anyway all moot — the odds of me living to reach 80 are pretty much nil given the big picture situation.
And obesity and processed foods are about to become extinct.
I would like to address the issue of “tastes good” in relation to food. So many people think that a carrot tastes bad because all they’ve been eating are chips. There is research showing, sorry no time for links right now, that our brain and taste chemistry changes when we eat high fat high salt food combos that actually means the bitters in veg are more bitter to our tongue and do not actually taste good. But when someone eats veg for a month or three weeks or some time frame in the studies and avoids the sweet and salty and fatty snacks aka fast food their ideas of what is sweet actually change and the veg all of a sudden taste amazing.
So taste good is a malleable property that, with effort, can be changed and just as much pleasure gained from a snow pea from the garden as a snickers bar. I think this is why it is so important to raise children with the right tastes.
I can tell you of someone very close to me who recently transitioned from fast food to mostly home cooked food. His palate went from everything is kind of blah and the same and I need some hot sauce to spice everything up to “this needs more cumin” “this needs more garlic” “this tastes different from the last time we visited” So I would, by personal observation and anecdote, argue that the palate is more developed and sensitive to a wider range of nuance in flavor when not eating candy and chips.
So the either or argument of “eat all the junk I want and die early or eat THAT stuff and live longer” is really a false dichotomy but a very difficult psychological hurdle that becomes real if we don’t talk about the fact that you won’t miss it after some time of eating healthier and it does make that ice cream treat all that more special and cherished.
“So many people think that a carrot tastes bad because all they’ve been eating are chips.”
Another aspect of this is that chemical food does taste bad! Most people’s idea of what a carrot tastes like comes from commodity agriculture.
When you grow your own in some rich composted manure, they do taste better. It’s not just imagination, the “brix” factor (basically, a measure of a vegetable’s sugar content) is measurably higher, and a gas chromatography test shows they have many more aromatic compounds that impart flavour.
When Important Scientists from Big Companies write papers that claim there is no nutritional difference between organic and chemical food, they are focused on the two dozen or so “essential nutrients” that they have been able to prove are absolutely required for human health and they ignore the hundreds of micronutrients that many think are essential for human health, but have not been able to prove it.
Very good points. Eating for me is largely about the the way it makes my body feel. A bowl of barley and kale with a little soy sauce and olive oil YUM- 4 hours of good energy. A more nuanced palate well I dont know about that… I seriously doubt my palate could be considered nuanced. There has been for me a progression of association of taste with energy to work and play. There seems to be two separate phenomena regarding taste. Some foods just taste good regardless of how they make you feel- say a banana or a Thai dish. Then some things like coffee or beer seem to taste good only after some part of the mind/body experiences the effects of the ingestion. The mind starts to associate the effects of ingestion with the taste and – Voila it now tastes good.. If you tune your perception to the bodies feedback to what you ingest than the same relationship can be made between foods tasting good and the energy they create to work and play. I however have never really valued the taste of things. This has enabled my journey to where I eat for body feedback. Does a gourmet meal taste good to me? of course its just not a sensation that is pleasant enough to me that I want to spend a lot of time and money pursuing it. On the other hand I greatly value the activities that good energy food enables so this has become the predominant factor in my choice of food. Those foods taste good enough for me. The fact that these foods happen to be low cost, and vegetarian seems to me a marvelous benefit, a real blessing. When I partake in a “good meal” it is not for taste, it is for the companionship, the symbolism, and the shared humanity that a meal prepared for taste provides.
Based on my own observations, I reckon it’s not so much WHAT we’re overeating, but THAT we’re overeating. It’s hard for any healthcare system to keep people alive when they’re hell-bent on suicide by eating twice as much as their bodies need at every meal. Add in a healthcare system that is already made severely dysfunctional by the influence of the insurance industry and it’s a wonder more of us don’t die even sooner.
If our plates were two-thirds filled with broccoli and kale, it would be a lot harder to overeat.
I agree our healthcare system is a problem as well, but that gets to be a separate issue. Part of the issue is that a huge amount of medical equipment gets purchased, and needs to be used at every possible opportunity to pay off its high cost. Part of the issue is that few look at lifestyle changes, instead of handing out pills. Part of the issue is that there is nothing approaching cost-benefit that is used in determining whether a given treatment should be used. (This may be the “insurance effect” that you mentioned.) For example, a friend a couple of months ago told me that her sister was dying of cancer that had spread to the brain. Even though everyone knew that this was the case, her husband was asking for all kinds of treatments that might extend her life a few days. It is hard to believe that her quality of life would have been very good in those few days either. But treatments were given, regardless of how little effect might be expected. The doctor and hospital no doubt saw their incomes rise.
“If our plates were two-thirds filled with broccoli and kale, it would be a lot harder to overeat”
Excellent point. It is a bit of physics as well. Naturally, sugar (glucose) is protected with fiber. Everyone wants to protect its food. So, plants have evolved/developed fiber as their defense mechanism. Now, hunter gathers and before fire, people would eat raw food i.e. rich in fiber. Now, fiber does not provide much energy. It only occupies space in our stomach. So, when you eat fiber-rich food, you feel full without eating enough calories. Higher volume, but low calorie density due to fiber is “tricking” your brain in thinking that stomach is full. In addition, fiber slows digestion of food because enzymes find it difficult to breakdown glucose molecules entangled in fiber. So, you don’t feel hungry soon after eating a meal.
So, fiber is the most important, but highly neglected essential nutrient our body need.
I am sure that “recommended amounts” are far too low, also.
Dietary fibers amounts listed on processed food labels are also misleading. Highly refined fiber, especially when added back in after the fact to highly refined wheat flour, is not remotely the same as raw fiber. That’s why most whole wheat breads have atrociously high Glycemic Index numbers and why adding the little fiber pill supplements don’t do you much good either. Try a tablespoon of Raw Miller’s Bran (and a large glass of water!) for comparison if you dare and wait a few hours to see the difference.
My rule of thumb is I like to “clear” everything I eat on day 1 NLT by the end of Day 2, and preferably on rising. Avoiding refined wheat flour, “whole” or otherwise, is the key. The Ezekial line of sprouted grain breads (in the frozen food section) work like a champ for me. They’re somewhat of an acquired taste for some, but they’re much more filling and have actual, wait for it, substance!, something no refined wheat flour bread will ever have.
Thanks for your views on this. Your view is similar to mine–that “fiber” listed on the outside of packaged goods was different than fiber in vegetables. Way back when I was having problems with my blood sugar, I went to a “class” put on by the health care system. The nutritionist (?) claimed that as long as the numbers were the same, that was all that mattered. We should go ahead and buy cereal bars and the like, if the numbers looked right. I am afraid I never really believed her. But it did strike me that that was what other people were being taught.
Agree – I don’t know of any overweight vegetarians.
Well I do not believe that is very true. Sometimes one can think they are eating healthy, but they may be misinformed. I know more than one “healthy” person who would never think of eating meat, but yet eat pretty of processed “food” ie (potato chips) and then wonder why they can’t lose weight/aren’t healthy. In my opinion like most of the other messes we are in, it all comes down to education before bad habits set in.
It is true with respect to the vegetarians I know here in Bali….
Of course one can eat potato chips, donuts, and pizza without any meat and still refer to oneself technically as a vegetarian … but….
I was a vegetarian for 5 years – I put on 20 pounds.
Eat like a cow, look like a cow.
Eat like a lion, look like a lion.
It does matter what you are eating. The body regulatory system handles either carb or fatty food reasonably well, but not in a mix. I.e. food that conatins much of both fat and fast carbs. When you get full eating such food you have alreay got to much calories into your system.
Also sugar/carbs causes insulin levels to spike. Insulin is multifunctional and is also act signal to the body to store fat. That is one reason that the GI-diet works for most people and carb diets are more difficult to get effective.
The BBC journalist Michael Mosley (google and you will find) made a series of elucidating programs about it where he used himself as a guinea pig. One of the ways he tried to reduce the total intake of calories whas the 5:2 diet. Eat what you want for 5 days, then eat max 600 calories for two days. That diet got very popular for a while here in Sweden after the program was aired. Before that it was the GI-diet.
Personally I just replace a lot of the carbs with meat/fish/fat and vegetables (1/2) on the plate. That works just fine, and there is really no effort in doing that.