Economists have given us a model of how prices and quantities of goods are supposed to interact.
Figure 1. From Wikipedia: The price P of a product is determined by a balance between production at each price (supply S) and the desires of those with purchasing power at each price (demand D). The diagram shows a positive shift in demand from D1 to D2, resulting in an increase in price (P) and quantity sold (Q) of the product.
Unfortunately, this model is woefully inadequate. It sort of works, until it doesn’t. If there is too little of a product, higher prices and substitutions are supposed to fix the problem. If there is too much, prices are supposed to fall, causing the higher-priced producers to drop out of the system.
This model doesn’t work with oil. If prices drop, as they have done since mid-2014, businesses don’t drop out. They often try to pump more. The plan is to try to make up for inadequate prices by increasing the volume of extraction. Of course, this doesn’t fix the problem. The hidden assumption is, of course, that eventually oil prices will again rise. When this happens, the expectation is that oil businesses will be able to make adequate profits. It is hoped that the system can again continue as in the past, perhaps at a lower volume of oil extraction, but with higher oil prices.
I doubt that this is what really will happen. Let me explain some of the issues involved.
[1] The economy is really a much more interlinked system than Figure 1 makes it appear.
Supply and demand for oil, and for many other products, are interlinked. If there is too little oil, the theory is that oil prices should rise, to encourage more production. But if there is too little oil, some would-be workers will be without jobs. For example, truck drivers may be without jobs if there is no fuel for the vehicles they drive. Furthermore, some goods will not be delivered to their desired locations, leading to a loss of even more jobs (both at the manufacturing end of the goods, and at the sales end).
Ultimately, a lack of oil can be expected to reduce the availability of jobs that pay well. Digging in the ground with a stick to grow food is a job that is always around, with or without supplemental energy, but it doesn’t pay well!
Thus, the lack of oil really has a two-way pull:
(a) Higher prices, because of the shortage of oil and the desired products it produces.
(b) Lower prices, because of a shortage of jobs that pay adequate wages and the “demand” (really affordability) that these jobs produce.
[2] There are other ways that the two-way pull on prices can be seen:
(a) Prices need to be high enough for oil producers, or they will eventually stop extracting and refining the oil, and,
(b) Prices cannot be too high for consumers, or they will stop buying products made with oil.
If we think about it, the prices of basic commodities, such as food and fuel, cannot rise too high relative to the wages of ordinary (also called “non-elite”) workers, or the system will grind to a halt. For example, if non-elite workers are at one point spending half of their income on food, the price of food cannot double. If it does, these workers will have no money left to pay for housing, or for clothing and taxes.
[3] The upward pull on oil prices comes from a combination of three factors.
(a) Rising cost of production, because the cheapest-to-produce oil tends to be extracted first, leaving the more expensive-to-extract oil for later. (This pattern is also true for other types of resources.)
(b) If workers are becoming more productive, this growing productivity of workers is often reflected in higher wages for the workers. With these higher wages, workers can afford more goods made with oil, and that use oil in their operation. Thus, these higher wages lead to higher “demand” (really affordability) for oil.
Recently, worker productivity has not been growing. One reason this is not surprising is because energy consumption per capita hit a peak in 2013. With less energy consumption per capita, it is likely that, on average, workers are not being given bigger and better “tools” (such as trucks, earth-moving equipment, and other machines) with which to leverage their labor. Such tools require the use of energy products, both when they are manufactured and when they are operated.
Figure 2. World Daily Per Capita Energy Consumption, based on primary energy consumption from BP Statistical Review of World Energy and 2017 United Nations population estimates.
(c) Another “pull” on demand comes from increased investment. This investment can be debt-based or can reflect equity investment. It is these financial assets that allow new mines to be opened, and new factories to be built. Thus, wages of non-elite workers can grow. McKinsey Global Institute reports that growth in total “financial assets” has slowed since 2007.
Figure 3. Figure by McKinsey Global Institute showing that growth in debt in financial instruments (both debt and equity) has slowed significantly since 2007. Source
More recent data by McKinsey Global Institute shows that cross-border investment, in particular, has slowed since 2007.
Figure 4. Figure by McKinsey Global Institute showing that global cross-border capital flows (combined debt and equity) have declined by 65% since the 2007 peak. Download from this page.
This cross-border investment is especially helpful in encouraging exports, because it often puts into place new facilities that encourage extraction of minerals. Some minerals are available in only a few places in the world; these minerals are often traded internationally.
[4] The downward pull on oil and other commodity prices comes from several sources.
(a) Oil exports are often essential to the countries where they are extracted because of the tax revenue and jobs that they produce. The actual cost of extraction may be quite low, making extraction feasible, even at very low prices. Because of the need for tax revenue and jobs, governments will often encourage production regardless of price, so that the country can maintain its place in the world export market until prices again rise.
(b) Everyone “knows” that oil and other commodities will be needed in the years ahead. Because of this, there is no point in stopping production altogether. In fact, the cost of production is likely to keep rising, putting an upward push on commodity prices. This belief encourages businesses to stay in the market, regardless of the economics.
(c) There is a long lead-time for developing new extraction capabilities. Decisions made today may affect extraction ten years from now. No one knows what the oil price will be when the new production is brought online. At the same time, new production is coming on-line today, based on analyses when prices were much higher than they are today. Furthermore, once all of the development costs have been put in place, there is no point in simply walking away from the investment.
(d) Storage capacity is limited. Production and needed supply must balance exactly. If there is more than a tiny amount of oversupply, prices tend to plunge.
(e) The necessary price varies greatly, depending where geographically the extraction is being done, and depending on what is included in the calculation. Costs are much lower if the calculation is done excluding investment to date, or excluding taxes paid to governments, or excluding necessary investments needed for pollution control. It is often easy to justify accepting a low price, because there is usually some cost basis upon which such a low price is acceptable.
(f) Over time, there really are efficiency gains, but it is difficult to measure how well they are working. Do these “efficiency gains” simply speed up production a bit, or do they allow more oil in total to be extracted? Also, cost cuts by contractors tend to look like efficiency gains. In fact, they may simply be temporary prices cuts, reflecting the desire of suppliers to maintain some market share in a time when prices are too low for everyone.
(g) Literally, every economy in the world wants to grow. If every economy tries to grow at the same time and the market is already saturated (given the spending power of non-elite workers), a very likely outcome is plunging prices.
[5] As we look around the world, the prices of many commodities, including oil, have fallen in recent years.
Figures 3 and 4 show that investment spending spiked in 2007. Oil prices spiked not long after that–in the first half of 2008.
Figure 5. Monthly Brent oil prices with dates of US beginning and ending QE.
Quantitative Easing (QE) is a way of encouraging investment through artificially low interest rates. US QE began right about when oil prices were lowest. We can see that the big 2008 spike and drop in prices corresponds roughly to the rise and drop in investment in Figures 3 and 4, above, as well.
If we look at commodities other than oil, we often see a major downslide in prices in recent years. The timing of this downslide varies. In the US, natural gas prices fell as soon as gas from fracking became available, and there started to be a gas oversupply problem.
I expect that at least part of gas’s low price problem also comes from subsidized prices for wind and solar. These subsidies lead to artificially low prices for wholesale electricity. Since electricity is a major use for natural gas, low wholesale prices for electricity indirectly tend to pull natural gas prices down.
Figure 6. Natural gas prices in the US and Canada, indexed to the 2008 price, based on annual price data provided in BP Statistical Review of World Energy, 2017.
Many people assume that fracking can be done so inexpensively that the type of downslide in prices shown in Figure 6 makes sense. In fact, the low prices available for natural gas are part of what have been pushing North American “oil and gas” companies toward bankruptcy.
For a while, it looked like high natural gas prices in Europe and Asia might allow the US to export natural gas as LNG, and end its oversupply problem. Unfortunately, overseas prices of natural gas have slid since 2013, making the profitability of such exports doubtful (Figure 7).
Figure 7. Prices of natural gas imports to Europe and Asia, indexed to 2008 levels, based on annual average prices provided by BP Statistical Review of World Energy, 2017.
Coal prices have followed a downward slope of a different shape since 2008. Note that the 2016 prices range from 32% to 59% below the 2008 level. They are even lower, relative to 2011 prices.
Figure 8. Prices of several types of coal, indexed to 2008 levels, based on annual average prices provided by BP Statistical Review of World Energy, 2017.
Figure 9 shows the price path for several metals and minerals. These seem to follow a downward path as well. I did not find a price index for rare earth minerals that went back to 2008. Recent data suggested that the prices of these minerals have been falling as well.
Figure 9. Prices of various metals and minerals, indexed to 2008, based on USGS analyses found using this link: https://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/mcs/
Figure 9 shows that several major metals are down between 24% and 35% since 2008. The drop is even greater, relative to 2011 price levels.
Internationally traded foods have also fallen in price since 2008.
Figure 10. Food prices, indexed to 2008 levels, based on data from the United Nations’ Food and Agricultural Organization.
In Item [4] above, I listed several factors that would tend to make oil prices fall. These same issues could be expected to cause the prices of these other commodities to drop. In addition, energy products are used in the production of metals and minerals and of foods. A drop in the price of energy products would tend to flow through to lower extraction prices for minerals, and lower costs for growing agricultural products and bringing products to market.
One surprising place where prices are dropping is in the auction prices for the output of onshore wind turbines. This is a chart shown by Roger Andrews, in a recent article on Energy Matters. The cost of making wind turbines doesn’t seem to be dropping dramatically, except from the fall in the prices of commodities used to make the turbines. Yet auction prices seem to be dropping by 20% or more per year.
Figure 11. Figure by Roger Andrews, showing trend in auction prices of onshore wind energy from Energy Matters.
Thus, wind energy purchased through auctions seems to be succumbing to the same deflationary market forces as oil, natural gas, coal, many metals, and food.
[6] It is very hard to see how oil prices can rise significantly, without the prices of many other commodities also rising.
What seems to be happening is a basic mismatch between (a) the amount of goods and services countries want to sell, and (b) the amount of goods and services that are truly affordable by consumers, especially those who are non-elite workers. Somehow, we need to fix this supply/demand (affordability) imbalance.
One way of raising demand is through productivity growth. As mentioned previously, such a rise in productivity growth hasn’t been happening in recent years. Given the falling energy per capita amounts in Figure 2, it seems unlikely that productivity will be growing in the near future, because the adoption of improved technology requires energy consumption.
Another way of raising demand is through wage increases, over and above what would be indicated by productivity growth. With globalization, the trend has been to lower and less stable wages, especially for less educated workers. This is precisely the opposite direction of the change we need, if demand for goods and services is to rise high enough to prevent deflation in commodity prices. There are very many of these non-elite workers. If their wages are low, this tends to reduce demand for homes, cars, motorcycles, and the many other goods that depend on wages of workers in the world. It is the manufacturing and use of these goods that influences demand for commodities.
Another way of increasing demand is through rising investment. This can eventually filter back to higher wages, as well. But this isn’t happening either. In fact, Figures 3 and 4 show that the last big surge in investment was in 2007. Furthermore, the amount of debt growth required to increase GDP by one percentage point has increased dramatically in recent years, both in the United States and China, making this approach to economic growth increasingly less effective. Recent discussions seem to be in the direction of stabilizing or lowering debt levels, rather than raising them. Such changes would tend to lower new investment, not raise it.
[7] In many countries, falling export revenue is adversely affecting demand for imported goods and services.
It is not too surprising that the export revenue of Saudi Arabia has fallen, with the drop in oil prices.
Figure 12. Saudi Arabia exports and imports of goods and services based on World Bank data.
Because of the drop in exports, Saudi Arabia is now buying fewer imported goods and services. A person would expect other oil exporters also to be making cutbacks on their purchases of imported goods and services. (Exports in current US$ means exports measured year-by-year in US$, without any inflation adjustment.)
It is somewhat more surprising that China’s exports and imports are falling, as measured in US$. Figure 13 shows that, in US dollar terms, China’s exports of goods and services fell in both 2015 and 2016. The imports that China bought also fell, in both of these years.
Figure 13. China’s exports and imports of goods and services on a current US$ basis, based on World Bank data.
Similarly, both the exports and imports of India are down as well. In fact, India’s imports have fallen more than its exports, and for a longer period–since 2012.
Figure 14. India’s exports and imports of goods and services in current dollars, based on World Bank data.
The imports of goods and services for the United States also fell in 2015 and 2016. The US is both an exporter of commodities (particularly food and refined petroleum products) and an importer of crude oil, so this is not surprising.
Figure 15. US exports and imports of goods and services in US dollars, based on World Bank data.
In fact, on a world basis, exports and imports of goods and services both fell, in 2015 and 2016 as measured in US dollars.
Figure 16. World exports and imports in current US dollars, based on World Bank data.
[8] Once export (and import) revenues are down, it becomes increasingly difficult to raise prices again.
If a country is not selling much of its own exports, it becomes very difficult to buy much of anyone else’s exports. This impetus, by itself, tends to keep prices of commodities, including oil, down.
Furthermore, it becomes more difficult to repay debt, especially debt that is in a currency that has appreciated. This means that borrowing additional debt becomes less and less feasible, as well. Thus, new investment becomes more difficult. This further tends to keep prices down. In fact, it tends to make prices fall, since new investment is needed to keep prices level.
[9] World financial leaders in developed countries do not understand what is happening, because they have written off commodities as “unimportant” and “something that lesser-developed countries deal with.”
In the US, few consumers are concerned about the price of corn. Instead, they are interested in the price of a box of corn flakes, or the price of corn tortillas in a restaurant.
The US, Europe and Japan specialize in high “value added” goods and services. For example, in the case of a box of corn flakes, manufacturers are involved in many steps such as (a) making corn flakes from corn, (b) boxing corn flakes in attractive boxes, (c) delivering those boxes to grocers’ shelves, and (d) advertising those corn flakes to prospective consumers. These costs generally do not decrease, as commodity prices decrease. One article from 2009 says, “With the record seven-dollar corn this summer, the cost of the corn in an 18-ounce box of corn flakes was only 14 cents.”
Because of the small role that commodity prices seem to play in producing the goods and services of developed countries, it is easy for financial leaders to overlook price indications at the commodity level. (Data is available at this level of detail; the question is how closely it is examined by decision-makers.)
Figure 17. Various indices within US CPI Urban, displayed on a basis similar to that used in Figure 7 through 11. In other words, index values for later periods are compared to the average 2008 index value. CPI statistics are from US Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Figure 17 shows some components of the Consumer Price Index (CPI) on a basis similar to the trends in commodity prices shown in Figures 7 through 11. The category “Household furnishings and operations” was chosen because it has furniture in it, and I know that furniture prices have fallen because of the growing use of cheap imported furniture from China. This category shows a slight downslope in prices. The other categories all show small increases over time. If commodity prices had not decreased, prices of the other categories would likely have increased to a greater extent than they did during the period shown.
[10] Conclusion. We are likely kidding ourselves, if we think that oil prices can rise in the future, for very long, by a very large amount.
It is quite possible that oil prices will bounce back up to $80 or even $100 per barrel, for a short time. But if they rise very high, for very long, there will be adverse impacts on other segments of the economy. We can’t expect that wages will go up at the same time, so increases in oil prices are likely to lead to a decrease in the purchase of discretionary products such as meals eaten in restaurants, charitable contributions, and vacation travel. These cutbacks, in turn, can be expected to lead to layoffs in discretionary sectors. Laid off workers are likely to have difficulty repaying their loans. As a result, we are likely to head back into a recession.
As we have seen above, it is not only oil prices that need to rise; it is many other prices that need to rise as well. Making a change of this magnitude is almost certainly impossible, without “crashing” the economy.
Economists put together a simplified view of how they thought supply and demand works. This simple model seems to work, at least reasonably well, when we are away from limits. What economists did not realize is that the limits we are facing are really affordability limits, and that growing affordability depends upon productivity growth. Productivity growth in turn depends on a growing quantity of cheap-to-produce energy supplies. The term “demand,” and the two-dimensional supply-demand model, hide these issues.
The whole issue of limits has not been well understood. Peak Oil enthusiasts assumed that we were “running out” of an essential energy product. When this view was combined with the economist’s view of supply and demand, the conclusion was, “Of course, oil prices will rise, to fix the situation.”
Few stopped to realize that there is a second way of viewing the situation. What is falling is the resources that people need to have in order to have jobs that pay well. When this happens, we should expect prices to fall, rather than to rise, because workers are increasingly unable to buy the output of the economy.
If we look back at what happened historically, there have been many situations in which economies have collapsed. In fact, this is probably what we should expect as we approach limits, rather than expecting high oil prices. If collapse should take place, we should expect widespread debt defaults and major problems with the financial system. Governments are likely to have trouble collecting enough taxes, and may ultimately fail. Non-elite workers have historically come out badly in collapses. With low wages and high taxes, they have often succumbed to epidemics. We have our own epidemic now–the opioid epidemic.
Impossible Environmentalism: Green groups promote utopian fantasies
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/09/07/impossible-environmentalism-does-not-address-sustainability-ted-nordhaus-column/570651001/
Promoting impossible goals seems to be the way people prefer to do things. Reality, logic, physics, economics, the true limits of time and resources, these seem to be too depressing for people to work with.
When the limits to growth came out in 1972, then there would’ve been chances to actually build real solutions. But people rejected the Meadows’ message outright wholesale. – it was too depressing. Not fun at all.
During the 1970 and 1980 the impossible pension systems were built up. Welfare state ideology, with liberalism and Reaganism – Thatcherism relying on endless economic growth. Forever. Having freedoms with no responsibilities. Having endless economic growth. Thats fun! Thats exciting! Yay freedoms now!.. Boo responsibilities in the future..
Slowly in the 1990 and 2000s environmental movements sprung up. Even having some success with legislation. Joschka Fischer got his Energiewende in Germany. Closing the nukes, promoting solar and wind. But today we can see how realistic the green parties plan actually was.
The millenials know something is seriously wrong. Most people know economic growth can not continue. Some few realize what the outcome of that math actually is, when said thing finally actually occurs. But what is the conversation about, today, globally? What do the greenies want? What do the millenials want? What can we “sell” to the public?
Can we actually “sell” reality, logic, physics the true limits of time and resources? What is actually possible. Something we could actually do or get. Me thinks reality seems to be a though sell.
Or is the only language of communicating, thats lefts for us to use.. whats fun! Its exciting! Its beautiful! Its se-xy! Its flowers rainbows unicorns and pixies and elves dancing in a field of flowers.. ?? And the above Greenies use the only language left for them to use..
Makes me think, are we truly globally collectively in an situation where reality is just scorned away to sit in the corner alone. And the only reality people are willing to choose, people who are by historical standards free to choose, without any future responsibilities, is to choose a reality of pixies and elves?
What Meadows was asking for in 1972 was impossible. Dennis Meadows at that point was barely out of graduate school. He and others on his team thought what he was asking for was reasonable.
One thing he as asking for was a limit on population, on a country by county basis, to the then-current level. The number of expected deaths would be estimated each year, and the number of births limited to the number of expected expected deaths. I am sure that this would have led to a lot of one child families. I cannot imagine countries around the world agreeing to this.
The book also talks about becoming much more efficient in fuel use (something we did do). My impression was that his plan was also to change to nuclear, because at that time, it was considered “too cheap to meter.” Needless to say, that didn’t happen. The plan is described as “putting off the crash to beyond 2100,” but I think some people have thought it would put off the crash permanently. I don’t think so. Finite resources are still finite resources.
Yes. But the Meadows couple were right I think, population growth was always the elephant in the room.
Without some restraints on population, it was always going to be, that whatever plans were to be made, they would be for naught.
As of population control. It would’ve been interesting to try on a small scale in Africa or India, what would’ve happened if all girls had free education as far as they would ever wish for. At least looking at the Scandinavian countries and their free education systems, that limits population growth dramatically.
It just might be, that Nuclear will prove to be immensly expensive. Lets see what happens in Florida in the coming week..
Gail, I’m not sure people understand a finite world and finite resources at all.
A large vein of minerals two hundred years ago.. Is now huge mines powered by oil. Going through tons and tons and tons of rock and dirt. To get to some few kilograms of said minerals. Less and less resources. Always more hard to get. Always more oil needed. People dont seem to realize what that implies as time moves forward.
Also people don’t seem to see the connection between economic growth. Oil. Finite resources, and the fact that after the global economy slows down, all the hard to get resources will stay in the ground forever.
And what said thing means.
We have a real live population control experiment going on on Japan —- and we can see the results right before our eyes —- even with the oil issues — Japan would collapse due to its population decline.
At present Japan is monetizing a huge proportion of it’s budget —- eventually that will lead to a currency collapse and hyperinflation ….
We probably won’t see the end of that experiment because the CBs do not want Japan to collapse because then BAU collapses —- so they allow the charade to go on ….
Population control = Deflationary Death Spiral
“Population control = Deflationary Death Spiral”
Good to be clearer on this particular (possible) downside to population control. It wouldn’t surprise me if there were others.
Right.
“Also people don’t seem to see the connection between economic growth. Oil. Finite resources, and the fact that after the global economy slows down, all the hard to get resources will stay in the ground forever.”
The economic system doesn’t seem calibrated with the resource system…as if the two were unrelated. If the economic system and the resource system could get together, might we have to be taking the FE challenge several day a week? (To safeguard resources as well as the ability to mine them. Like when an obese person gets temporarily stranded with no food. He loses weight and gains health. He feels fine and resolves, on returning home where there is food, not to regain the weight?) There should be ways to make and circulate money while steering clear of over using irreplaceable resources, or resources whose decline would crash the economic system on every level. In other words, might the economic system be modified to use only what it needed to survive, and nothing more?
Art, noble sentiments but the human race is plumeting into ever deepening overshoot. Not because we deliberately chose to end ourselves in an orgy of wanton environmental destruction. It’s a product of our evolution and collectively we are powerless to change. There are any amount of doomer scenarios to be gleaned from those facts but we don’t know the future and simply giving up hope, is as ridiculous as assuming we’ll live forever.
99.99% of humans need to disappear, that’s a lot of volunteers and 99.999% would choose not to. IMO we can’t progress to a new understanding unless it’s forced upon us. That’s saves the human race but not you or I, unless we draw one of the very few long straws remaining, in the lottery of human life.
Unless immortality is made available to the lucky few, then surely 100% of humans are going to disappear. Miss Tarpie, my teacher at primary school, often used to tell us very sternly, “If you’re born, you’re bound to die!” It was one of her set phrases alongside “Empty vessels make the most noise!” and “A bad workman blames his tools!” As a result, I took the inevitability of my own mortality to heart at a very tender age.
If 99.99% of us disappeared without being replaced, that would leave a little over 700,000 of us left to carry on the race. I don’t see why the human population needs to go that low in the absence of a Spent-nuclear-fuel-mageddon scenario. Such a population reduction might happen, and it might be good for the surviving gorillas and chimps and orangutans if it did happen, but I don’t see any necessity for it. H. sapiens have proved time and again that they have the right stuff to survive in a wide range of environments, even if they trash them in the process. The population of England and Wales alone was about a million when William the Conqueror conquered it.
Studies I have seen indicated 1/3 of GDP is attributed to population growth …
I don’t got me no fancy gradu-ate degrees —- but … I can figure out ….
No population growth = no BAU = I is dead.
I agree. Population growth is a very important part of keeping the whole spiral going. If countries go the way of Japan, the whole system will collapse.
“Closing the nukes, promoting solar and wind.”
How is that a solution?
There are no solutions — we have done exactly what we needed to do — we either grow — or we collapse and die.
Drink more strong beer with a splash of lemon Always works for me
Some like vino or the hard stuff
Study: A Picture of a Black Person Can Anger Trump Supporters and Change Their Politics
http://www.theroot.com/study-a-picture-of-a-black-person-can-anger-trump-supp-1802753905
A picture of a Clinton—any picture of any Clinton—can put me off my breakfast, and I’m not even an American. It’s all a matter of Pavlovian conditioning.
I sincerely hope HRC suffers profoundly …. when BAU goes down….
She is a disgusting human being … and that is saying a lot given our track record as an organism
Millennials wish they had grown up in baby boomers’ times – survey
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/sep/09/millennials-wish-they-had-grown-up-in-baby-boomers-times-survey
I don’t blame them–and I am a baby boomer!
Don’t worry they will get their revenge when the oil starts to run out.
Florida Republican beat a girls brains in with a hammer And refuses to resign
http://www.salon.com/2017/09/08/florida-republican-refuses-to-resign-after-gruesomely-violent-past-uncovered/
BAU is alive and well in South Florida…live report from Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood.
Impressed by the efforts of Government and private sector to prepare for the incoming Hurricane Irma.
Saturated media coverage 24/7 to inform the public. As of yesterday, gasoline, food and other essentials were available. Even today, a Supermarket is open to serve the public. Most government services have been shut down, and airline flights ended. For 29,000 in Miami Dade and only 850 in Broward lost electrical power. Without a doubt there will be loss of power when the hurricane passes.
Appears most residents heeded the warning have prepared. Governor Rick Scott has stressed one of his top priorities is gasoline supply and availability. There have been long lines, but one can purchase it. Stations have ran out and may limit amount, but with the internet can locate stations open.
Numerous shelters have opened, mainly Middle Schools that were built to withstand category 5 hurricanes. Also, special needs shelters are for the medical, infirmed or handicapped.
Pet friendly shelters also opened.
To be honest, it would be hard to find fault at this point.
Will report back once the storm passes. Expect it will move west, sparring the Gold Coast and ravage Tampa.
https://imgur.com/a/z7lZn
Is it possible Irma falls apart before making US landfall? Last evening before tip toeing off to bed, sustained wind speed was 155 and a cat. 5, and now it’s 130, cat. 4. They always lose steam when they hit land and half of that behemoth has now been rolling over Cuba for about 12 hours. It’s still hugging the Cuban coastline and if it continues that path for another 8 hours it will be reduced to a tempest in a teapot and all this hullabaloo will have been for naught. “It’s ok folks, you can go home now.”
In one word, Geoengineering.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_Proposes,_God_Disposes#/media/File:Manproposesgoddisposes.jpg
The theory has been, “Scare the citizens as much as possible, so they will take the time and effort to evacuate. If it doesn’t happen, there isn’t too much lost.” This is one reason I was surprised that Harvey was only forecast as a Category 3 storm. Of course, the people in charge in Houston had figured out that the big issue would likely be too much rain. Also, Houston is too big compared to the surrounding area to really evacuate. So scaring people into evacuating was not a reasonable strategy.
Agree on scaring people. Irma now downgraded to a 3 with sustained winds of 125. Forecast is for it to intensify once it moves away from Cuba back up to a 4, but I’m not sure. The reason why is these storms have a shelf life and once they spin for a certain amount of time and then hit land they tend to wind down like a top on a table. If it does build back up it will hit the most vulnerable shoreline in America. Mostly very expensive homes/mansions built to take advantage of the beautiful Fl coast but at a low level in severe danger of storm surge. A lot of super wealthy people will need the govt’s help and I’m sure if anyone’s going to get financial assistance they will as the super wealthy are the GOP’s base. I’m sure announcements will commence immediately upon first sight of any damage.
Why the United States Is Falling Apart
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/09/infrastructure-crumbing-public-sector-spending
GOP are purposely squeezing infrastructure budgets to dismantle government. The very party that has power is trying to eliminate government. Soon it will all be privatized and bridges and highways will require tolls like in Florida. This is how the last people that can afford such tolls will get places, while the rest fall by the wayside.
It isn’t the GOP, it is diminishing returns causing all of this. If cheap oil was abundant everyone would be getting along just fine.
It is the GOP. They are filled with hatred for ‘The People’. They only serve the super wealthy now. It isn’t diminishing returns because if they didn’t spend 700 billion a year on Defense but instead spent 300, that would free up 400 billion a year for infrastructure and that would be plenty. In fact, with that amount each year they could provide more tax incentives for solar and wind.
In my state of Michigan Republicans have conquered everything the last eight years. And are spending like crazy on driverless cars. LOL
Remember, solar and wind are not what they are advertised to be. They completely mess up the electricity pricing system for other fuels, if they are given priority. They require subsidies from fossil fuels. I keep trying to write about what non-solutions they are. https://ourfiniteworld.com/2017/07/22/researchers-have-been-underestimating-the-cost-of-wind-and-solar/
You can put this in front of renewable energy grooopies faces…. and they will read it — and they will ignore the facts and logic ….
They will continue to believe renewable energy and EVs will save us.
It is very much like religion.
Replacement of oil by alternative sources
While oil has many other important uses (lubrication, plastics, roadways, roofing) this section considers only its use as an energy source. The CMO is a powerful means of understanding the difficulty of replacing oil energy by other sources. SRI International chemist Ripudaman Malhotra, working with Crane and colleague Ed Kinderman, used it to describe the looming energy crisis in sobering terms.[13] Malhotra illustrates the problem of producing one CMO energy that we currently derive from oil each year from five different alternative sources. Installing capacity to produce 1 CMO per year requires long and significant development.
Allowing fifty years to develop the requisite capacity, 1 CMO of energy per year could be produced by any one of these developments:
4 Three Gorges Dams,[14] developed each year for 50 years, or
52 nuclear power plants,[15] developed each year for 50 years, or
104 coal-fired power plants,[16] developed each year for 50 years, or
32,850 wind turbines,[17][18] developed each year for 50 years, or
91,250,000 rooftop solar photovoltaic panels[19] developed each year for 50 years
The world consumes approximately 3 CMO annually from all sources. The table [10] shows the small contribution from alternative energies in 2006.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubic_mile_of_oil
“To provide most of our power through renewables would take hundreds of times the amount of rare earth metals that we are mining today,” according to Thomas Graedel at the Yale School of Forestry & Environmental Studies. So renewable energy resources like windmills and solar PV can not ever replace fossil fuels, there’s not enough of many essential minerals to scale this technology up. http://energyskeptic.com/2014/high-tech-cannot-last-rare-earth-metals/
Renewable energy ‘simply won’t work’: Top Google engineers
Two highly qualified Google engineers who have spent years studying and trying to improve renewable energy technology have stated quite bluntly that whatever the future holds, it is not a renewables-powered civilisation: such a thing is impossible.
Both men are Stanford PhDs, Ross Koningstein having trained in aerospace engineering and David Fork in applied physics. These aren’t guys who fiddle about with websites or data analytics or “technology” of that sort: they are real engineers who understand difficult maths and physics, and top-bracket even among that distinguished company.
Even if one were to electrify all of transport, industry, heating and so on, so much renewable generation and balancing/storage equipment would be needed to power it that astronomical new requirements for steel, concrete, copper, glass, carbon fibre, neodymium, shipping and haulage etc etc would appear.
All these things are made using mammoth amounts of energy: far from achieving massive energy savings, which most plans for a renewables future rely on implicitly, we would wind up needing far more energy, which would mean even more vast renewables farms – and even more materials and energy to make and maintain them and so on. The scale of the building would be like nothing ever attempted by the human race.
In reality, well before any such stage was reached, energy would become horrifyingly expensive – which means that everything would become horrifyingly expensive (even the present well-under-one-per-cent renewables level in the UK has pushed up utility bills very considerably).
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/11/21/renewable_energy_simply_wont_work_google_renewables_engineers/
http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/23/google-gives-up-on-green-tech-investment-initiative-rec/
Politics… right up there with discussing who’s better – the Toronto Maple Leafs or Montreal Candiens….
Who gives a shit….
Seems to be a lot wealthy Democrats that serve the super wealthy.
Thatcher is a good example of this …. without the North Sea Oil coming online … she would have presided over Britain collapsing into the status of a third rate state…. or possibly worse
But…Thatcher wasn’t allowed to bring in the capitalist halcyon age because the bankers and the deep state stunted her policies! Just like Trump!
One wonders what might have happened, Members of the British Army certainly planned a coup in the 1970’s and 80’s. Old school aristos, deeply dismayed at what was happening.
Then things calmed down, thankfully.
It’s a common error among soldiers to think that military intervention can deal with economic screw-ups. I imagine they planned a ‘govt. of national unity’ under the Crown, supension of elections, but with Parliament still sitting.
There was a huge hump in the 1960s and early 1970s in spending on electric transmission lines and on roads. Oil prices and other fossil fuel prices were lower then. If the quantity of energy that could have been purchased at those percentages of GDP had been shown, the results would have been even more dramatic.
Target slashes prices on thousands of items, shares falter
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-target-prices/target-slashes-prices-on-thousands-of-items-shares-falter-idUSKCN1BJ2AI?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+reuters/businessNews+(Business+News)
Amazon
It sounds like every company heads for the bottom.
The North Sea Oil Recovery Is Dead In The Water
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/The-North-Sea-Oil-Recovery-Is-Dead-in-The-Water.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+oilpricecom+(Oil+Price.com+Daily+News+Update)
I don’t usually comment here, but I wanted to get some other opinions on this.
Do you think the US will start to see a lot of internal displacement from all these disasters (Harvey, Irma, the wildfires, etc)? I’m wondering, if Irma hits and Houston is not fully rebuilt, where these people will go. Nowhere is perfectly safe, but it seems as though some regions are much safer than others in the US–and some far more dangerous overall
In longer span of time and cumulatively yes, indeed, as past damage will be repaired with less intensity and from some point not at all, i.e. abandoned.
However, at the moment and near-mid term we are not there yet, the US functions as the legacy host entity for the global financial order. They can depend on fraudulent print as well as push of other big players into such schemes for some more time.
This will only change when these two conditions are fulfilled: owners of the global capital decide it’s the ripe time to drop the old project and get neofeudal in specific selected smaller regions, where they hope might take hold and regroup. The second condition concerns the “junior partners” a weaker force, yet intervening with the overall timing still, and that’s the trust-fate of the world’s lesser elite, that their wealth and power is well secured and parked within the “US order” of things, when this also fractures it affects the major point mentioned earlier, but mostly we should expect this to be contributing after effect only, not necessarily the triggering effect..
My educated guess-working theory is mid-late 2020s when the energy depletion plus demographic cliff in Asia likely hammer the combined fatal blow..
My educated guess-working theory is mid-late 2020s when the energy depletion
Bingo!!!
You really are a Ponce of pontification.
The only person pontificating on this point is you. Jimmy asked a perfectly reasonable question soliciting opinions. Worldof obliged with some well considered thoughts. Cliff chimed in by agreeing, and then you come along with a complete non sequitur. Although I admit it has a nice ring to it.
Yup
127,000 Japanese-Americans, many of them born in USA and not speaking a word of Japanese, ‘relocated’ inland in – 1942. That’s about 1/800 of total pop of USA back then.
http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/japanese-american-relocation
Who knows what would have happened to them if the Japanese had won at Midway.
I have a sister I the Houston area. Her house was flooded. She plans to repair, and then sell and get out. Ther is another guy whose house is flooded, He also plans to get out. Economically, I think many will face financial difficulty in getting out. After all, another fool has to buy the house.
My local area in Japan gets hit by heavy monsoon rains in June and July and by typhoons from August to November, either of which can cause flooding in the usually narrow river valleys. Knowing that a certain area was prone to flooding once every ten or twenty years, people traditionally didn’t build homes or other infrastructure on these areas, so towns and villages would be built on higher ground.
But from the 1970s, the age of affluence created a massive demand for more building land and a sense of impunity and (to echo Alan Greenspan) irrational exuberance arose with regard to humanity’s power over nature. Bigger dykes and deeper ditches, provided enough concrete was poured, could cope with everything. And if so many others were building on the flood plain, people assumed, it must be safe to do so.
Result, acres and acres of good rice paddy covered in buildings, roads and parking lots, leading to the inevitable flooding, such as the 2014 Fukuchiyama Flood that painted the town orange.
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/in-this-aerial-image-fukuchiyama-city-center-is-inundated-on-august-picture-id453731680
She womanly lay like the lay of the land
The land around Wheely Down
And every curve was a high, high hill
To hang above the town
From Holland they came to make the maps
And they had made her well
For the rivers danced all across the green
And the pinewood sweet did smell
As far as ever a man can see
It yields him more and more
And every house he washes it white
And he covers it all with straw
Except for the fool, who makes his home
Upon the flooded ground,
And the still on the tide is a glass to the eyes
That stare out of Wheely Down
All things must change within the earth
The moving and the lame.
For the worms will rot the miller’s wheel
And the rats will eat the grain.
And the armies of deliverance
Are run into the ground,
And the kestrel turns in the empty skies
On high over Wheely Down.
Also, the feeling that “certainly” the rich government can finance whatever rebuilding is needed. At some point, it is going to be clear that the government really cannot keep financing all of the rebuilding. In fact, neither can insurance companies.
Lovely.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-07/princeton-economist-says-opioid-epidemic-may-explain-20-labor-force-participation-de
i was talking to a passenger on the tram the other day as i drive trams for a living and he was telling me that a trillion tonnes of ice the size of france had fallen into the ocean in antarctica thanx to glowball waarmming has anyone heard a similar story could be what’s causing some of the extreme weather or earthquake events just recently like a ‘ butterfly effect ‘
Old news…. just pick up any MSM source and you can find all that and more….
Meanwhile — it’s spring in Queenstown … and it has been snowing heavily.
That you will not find in the MSM.
And Madame Fast is reminding me (fairly regularly) of how I told her she did not need her heavy coat ‘because it is spring’
Proves your ignorance of climactic phenomenon is pretty basic don’t it ?
For those of you who don’t know Eddy is visiting a ski resort town which has a snow season every year until the very last days of Spring.
Ya kinda like hurricanes occur on a regular basis in certain parts of the world… and droughts… and clowns drop onto FW telling us this is evidence of gerbarl werrrming…
‘
Two can play at the MORE on game … the difference is I am mocking the MORE ons… obviously I know that snow in September in Queenstown has f789 all to do with us burning or not burning more coal…
Oh look – it’s raining today!!! What the hell is with that!!! This is spoiling my ski plans.
I change my mind back — this is all because of
http://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/images/2014/08/energy-coal-power-plant-smokestacks-with-tailings.jpg
If it snows tomorrow – or we get another hurricane somewhere in the world tomorrow — I reserve the right to change my mind again.
This gerrrbeal werrrming is so confusing… one day it’s cold one day its not — one day the wind blows – the next it is calm
Can we blame earthquakes on geerrbbbilwerming? Why not….
Oh – there’s a sunny break — what does that mean? What caused that? Did someone just spark up the coal fired plant somewhere?
Never snows in spring?
Is this what you have come to?
For shame.
It does make all these fools who post hurricane photos on FW look rather ridiculous doesn’t it….. but of course my intent with these comment is flying way over your head
If not then surely would be making similar statements when the hurricane photos are posted…
“Treat it as one data point.”
A datum.
here is a link to a website that claims lemons to protect against radiation look under the section skin protection -hair – nails – eyes http://en.mr-ginseng.com/lemon/
This Is What Miami Could Look Like On Sunday Morning
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-08/what-miami-could-look-sunday-morning
this might just work out…
Italy has its Venice…
the USA could have its gondola rides in Miami…
might just be good for Miami tourism!
exciting!
Whether people think it’s real or not, it didn’t stop them from wanting more. More! More More! More babies. More production. More consumption.
Besides, it’s all a bit too late. We’ll be side-swiped into the tree of oblivion, long before. Consider it, along with nuke meltdowns, as the coup-de-grace, of industrial civ.
People have better things to do with their lives and careers than spend it pulling the wool over the public’s eyes.
http://allnewspipeline.com/images/SOLOMON_WP_CIA.png
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DF1Z6VGXgAAAx3Z.jpg
What Is Paranoid Schizophrenia?
http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/schizophrenia-paranoia#1
I’ve been to my local headshrinker
To help classify my disease
https://youtu.be/zFd4WBnOBv4
It is not sinking it at all ….
The strategy has been exposed — if something is repeated endlessly …. it is a LIE… the repetition serves to turn it into a truth.
If every hurricane …. every drought … every out of the ordinary natural event is connected to the LIE…. that is further evidence of the attempt to brainswash the masses
It works. It works extremely well
Kind of like your repetition of tired denialism?
And what was the context Tim? Could it have been quite a narrowly defined campaign regarding Nicaragua and therefore not nearly as ominous?
I am the source for this quote, which was indeed said by CIA Director William Casey at an early February 1981 meeting of the newly elected President Reagan with his new cabinet secretaries to report to him on what they had learned about their agencies in the first couple of weeks of the administration. The meeting was in the Roosevelt Room in the West Wing of the White House, not far from the Cabinet Room.
I was present at the meeting as Assistant to the chief domestic policy adviser to the President. Casey first told Reagan that he had been astonished to discover that over 80 percent of the ‘intelligence’ that the analysis side of the CIA produced was based on open public sources like newspapers and magazines. As he did to all the other secretaries of their departments and agencies, Reagan asked what he saw as his goal as director for the CIA, to which he replied with this quote, which I recorded in my notes of the meeting as he said it. Shortly thereafter I told Senior White House correspondent Sarah McClendon, who was a close friend and colleague, who in turn made it public.
Barbara Honegger
I assume that because you ask Tim that question … that you believe that the MSM publishes the truth.
You see… that is where you go off the rails… anyone believes that is… shall we say… ridiculous.
Have a watch of this — this is akin to Al Gore stating that ___ ___ is a hoax…
I am sure you will watch this …. and you will still click CNN.com …expecting truth….
Thanks FE. Also relevant, although a long read, is this article by Carl Bernstein. It’s 40 years old, but it sheds a lot of light on how the CIA used to like to manipulate the fourth estate. Unless of course the CIA had a cunning plan to manipulate Carl to lie about how they were into manipulating journalists:
After leaving The Washington Post in 1977, Carl Bernstein spent six months looking at the relationship of the CIA and the press during the Cold War years. His 25,000-word cover story, published in Rolling Stone on October 20, 1977, is reprinted below.
THE CIA AND THE MEDIA
How Americas Most Powerful News Media Worked Hand in Glove with the Central Intelligence Agency and Why the Church Committee Covered It Up
http://www.carlbernstein.com/magazine_cia_and_media.php
https://youtu.be/4WM_R-6AKHE
Nice.
It says a lot about the acute deterioration of “freedom of expression” in the USA that today it would be impossible for a story so revelatory as that to be published in a magazine as mainstream as Rolling Stone. 40 years ago the press was still able to abandon, once in a while, its trail of deception and shows us, briefly, how the real politik works. Today there’s not even a small breach in the big wall of lies.
Fortunately, although, we now have the web, that is much better, much more free, than any MSM of the past.
The World Is Running Out of Sand
https://www.livescience.com/60349-world-running-out-of-sand.html?utm_source=notification
“Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives.”
So is collapse now coming from a lack of sand? That’s it, we’ve reached the sand limit. It’s all over now!!
From many different limits simultaneously. The limit is really an affordability limit–what the non-elite workers can afford with their wages. If they can afford all kinds of high-priced imported sand along with all kinds of other high-priced raw materials in the goods they buy, than the economy continues to grow. If they cannot afford goods made with the high priced materials, then the system will fail. At some point, the wholesale price of extracted sand will fall too low to make the whole system work, because not enough people can afford output made with high-priced sand.
I would add on a few suggestions:
move to a place where there is abundant tasty food that grows naturally with no fossil fuels needed, and better yet no human effort at all,
and where no FF is needed to warm or cool your home seasonally,
and where the inhabitants are all peaceful and coexist by helping each other every day,
and where the medical care is free and of the utmost quality,
and where no job is required to obtain all of the above,
and where there is no harsh weather through all 12 months of the year,
and where fresh water is plentiful and unpolluted,
and where no nukes can possibly reach,
and where the location is so secret that no nation could ever invade.
ps: I might just live in such a place, but I can’t say so on the internet.
sorry, I hope you understand.
this long response is to adonis above.
even a few of those suggestions would tip the scales in your favour great suggestions it sounds really good
Irma has broken a mind-boggling number of records
https://grist.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/irma-sept-8-noaa.jpg
Colorado State University meteorologist Philip Klotzbach is a weather savant. In the midst of a storm that’s put many experts at a loss for words, Klotzbach compiled a short document that serves as a testament to Hurricane Irma’s improbable existence.
Here are some of the more notable records Irma has already set, as of Friday afternoon:
* 185 mph lifetime max winds — the strongest storm to exist in the Atlantic Ocean
* 185 mph max winds for 37 hours — the longest any cyclone around the globe has maintained that intensity on record
* Three consecutive days as a Category 5 hurricane — the longest in the satellite era (since 1966)
* Generated the most Accumulated Cyclone Energy — a measure that combines a hurricane’s wind speed and size — on record in the tropical Atlantic
* Generated more Accumulated Cyclone Energy than 14 entire Atlantic hurricane seasons in the satellite era
These statistics are even more impressive taken in context with Jose and Katia, two other powerful hurricanes currently spinning in the Atlantic. Collectively, these three hurricanes produced more total energy on Friday than any group of hurricanes ever has in the Atlantic on a single day, in history. And they’re all headed toward land.
yes.
in the billions of years that Earth has existed, Irma holds many records as measured by humans in the past 50 years or so.
impressive!
Where not talking about “billions of years ago”, before life as we know it, existed. Where talking about modern times, you know the past 500 years or so, since western civilisation as currently enjoyed, has been around.
since 1966?
impressive!
Can’t it just be what it is? Impressive? Joker.
actually, the records you cited are quite amazing.
in recent history, we’ve seen nothing that beats it.
Irma will be breaking more than just records in Florida.
Not even CDs will be safe.
Attempting to argue with someone who has hard coded the message from the MSM regarding gerbil weebling ….
Is no different than trying to argue with someone who has hard coded the messages from the MSM regarding renewable energy and EVs
There is absolutely no way you can break through once this message has been implanted.
For those of you who refuse to acknowledge what is obvious to the few of us….. if you want to understand the way we feel…
Then pick a random person — and try to explain to them that renewable energy and EVs are a joke…
Use facts and logic and common sense when speaking to them — explain to them how the MSM convinces them that these are saviours by using repetition….
Then stand back and observe how they dismiss the facts and logic — and repeat exactly what the MSM has told them
Once your little experiment ends —- then consider that you are no different than they are.
You are also parroting the MSM…. you are also ignoring facts and logic
Yes I know…. your have your own set of facts — delivered to your brain by the MSM — and you have conclude that those facts are correct
Just as people who have their own sets of facts supporting renewable energy and EVs…. delivered to their brains by the MSM
++++++++++++++++
Uncommon wisdom, FE, and sure to be rejected by the people who would benefit most from absorbing it.
As expected their reaction is to mock — to deride ….
The exact same reaction one gets when one suggests to a Green Groopie that solar panels and EVs are ridiculous….
What astounds me is that these same people who are unable to escape their MSM indoctrination — are more than willing to insult those who are unable to escape their MSM indoctrination on the solar EV stories…
The Marx Brothers/Laurel and Hardy would have a field day with this.
This demonstrates just how powerful the MSM is.
People who understand that the role of the MSM is to turn lies into truth….
Still get sucked in … still get played….
the simple word for this is “brainwashing”. the system starts very early with Pre-school, then K-12, followed these days by college. it stuffs creativeity and independent, critical thinking. if you think like FE, you are branded as a troublemaker, someone who justs doesn’t get it and fails to “fit in” to modern society. maybe they need psychological help or better still, some prison time, to adjust.
It is endlessly amusing to see people on FW who ridicule friends and family because they refuse to understand that BAU is about to end due to peak cheap oil — no matter what facts are put in front of them …
… then ridicule others who put facts in front of them that should at least make them question the werbgerbel story that the MSM spews on a daily basis….
But nope — not even the slightest hint of doubt — they react EXACTLY as their friends and family members do to the peak oil story — with indignation …. anyone who does not toe the line is a crack pot…
Everything on CNN is a lie – EXCEPT the geeeball weebllle story
Yes of course….. duh
Good post psile! More hard data. But what is a denialist if it isn’t a billy goat banging its head against a brick wall? There’s no such thing (bang) as GW (bang), I’m sure of it (bang). That would have hurt if the denialist had a human brain, you know the new brain, the 3rd neo-cortex layer but with just a few leafy sheets of primordial grazing gray matter, it doesn’t hurt a bit.
Let me just stop banging my head against a brick wall for a minute in order to talk to one.
If Gerbil Wankering caused this year’s crop of powerful Atlantic hurricanes, did also cause the record-braking 12-year total absence of powerful Atlantic hurricanes hitting the US coast between Katrina and Harvey?
You have a well-developed human brain with plenty of gray matter, and I know you’re no MORE-on as you’ve managed to spell “primordial” . So perhaps you could explain why the last decade has brought the longest hurricane drought in US history? Please! Pretty please!
A study published by the American Geophysical Union in 2015 said the lack of major hurricane landfalls boiled down to dumb luck rather than a particular weather pattern. “I don’t believe there is a major regime shift that’s protecting the U.S.,” said study lead author Timothy Hall from NASA.
And TIm Hall is correct. But if 12 years of no big hurricanes in a region prone to big hurricanes, is “dumb luck”, why isn’t 3 or 4 or 5 major hurricanes in a single year “dumb luck”?
It has been a terribly long drought of strong hurricanes. The Atlantic and Gulf Of Mexico have been so quiet the last 10+ years that one could correlate a warming global temperature with fewer hurricanes. Hyping these storms does no one any good either. Why can’t the news media simply say Irma is about as powerful as hurricanes can get. Rather than saying it is breaking records. We all know our record keeping is awfully short to be proclaiming Irma is a record breaking storm. Without an experimental control , it is impossible to say if a warming global temperature is or is not affecting weather patterns.
+++++
Spoke to my brother and his wife yesterday …. the latest hurricane came up …. and what did they say ‘and people say there is no geerbil weerming’
Of course CNN is a saved channel on their remote….
Good little parrots they are….. polly want a cracker…..
Has anyone noticed how every second word out of the mouths of people in America and Canada is f789
Where do you think that came from? Turn on the teevee and you’ll know rather quickly because that’s one of the most used words these days…
Good little parrots…. f789 f789 f789 f789
Logic….. something completely lacking in MOREonville.
There’s something worse than no logic;
The faulty application.
I’m losing count of your logical fallacies.
That’s because they are beyond your comprehension — because you are mired in your MSM dogma…
To help you understand why you cannot get it…
Try convincing someone who is entrenched in a cult …. to quit the cult because it is nonsense.
Try convincing someone who believes renewable energy and EVs are going to save the world — that this is total nonsense.
They are no different than you — they believe nonsense. And like them — there is no convincing you otherwise.
No fact – no bit of logic will break through. I guarantee – if Al Gore came out and said this gggeeeweeeble was a hoax — if he explained that it was all about distracting you from the end of oil…
You would attack him — you would claim that big oil was paying him — that he sold out
That is EXACTLY what happened when Patrick Moore of Greenpeace came out and made these claims.
You obviously have allowed the MSM to make your mind up for you — and there is no changing it.
Clima..te Chang..e = change in usual weather patterns.
Therefore the hurricane variability is clima..te chan.ge writ large.
IT is always changing … there are always abnormal periods…. the hottest driest period in recorded history in America occurred in the 1930’s… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl
Did burning fossil fuels cause that?
If so – prove it.
While you are at it – provide that man caused Irma.
What happened to that old chestnut: “Clim-ate is what we expect; weat-her is what we get”?
The clim-ate of a region or city is its weat-her averaged over many years. The clim-ate of the earth is a meaningless concept, as a few moments’ reflection will reveal. The earth doesn’t have “a clim-ate”; it has dozens of ’em, which isn’t surprising given the origin of the word:
late Middle English: from Old French climat or late Latin clima, climat-, from Greek klima ‘slope, zone’, from klinein ‘to slope’. The term originally denoted a zone of the earth between two lines of latitude, then any region of the earth, and later, a region considered with reference to its atmospheric conditions.
And yet, if we google “The Earth’s clim-ate is…” we get 170,000 hits.
The folks who profess to believe that the earth has “a clim-ate” and that a single year with greater or lesser atlantic hurricane activity or a difference of a tenth of a degree C in the average of the average of a year’s worth of twice daily of temp-er-ature readings made at a few dozen or a few hundred disparate locations represents a change in this “global climate”.
As the World Meteorological Organization website has it, “Scientists determine average clim-ate from a calculation of conditions over a 30-year period.” In this sentence, with the term “average clim-ate”, they’ve made a Freudian slip and given us a huge clue. The inevitable differences in weat-her at a particular place from year to year—after all, it changes like the weat-her, with hot, warm, cool and cold years, wet years and dry years and boring normal years!—add up inevitably to changes in the average clim-ate (= the average weat-her of said place over many years), just as each successive pitch of the ball in baseball changes the average of various pitching and batting averages.
To sum up:
Tradition and common sense say: clim-ate = average wea-ther
And the WMO infers: average climate = average wea-ther
Taking this relationship to its logical conclusion: clim-ate = average clim-ate
And: clim-ate = weat-her
Neat that.
There can’t be too many other “sciences” that are quite so mired in tautology and that make a virtue of the data-handling “vice” of averaging averages.
How would you explain the fact that a couple of months ago I believe the Big Lie…. and that now I don’t?
The way I explain it is that I had never looked at the facts very closely before — because it did not matter — we burn more coal or we die — so I did not care — in fact I was and continue to urge one and all to burn more coal NOW
But then when I applied the usual test to the issue — the one where if I read about something constantly in the MSM I assume it is a lie — and I am constantly reading about this issue in the MSM….
So I then began to research the issue heavily — and the evidence that I found required that I change my position.
Feel free to tell me why you think I changed my mind. Always happy to hear from a DelusiSTANI.
Could you post your “heavy research” sources and data and how they enabled your conclusions of certainty.
I’ve posted them a thousand times… this is only one of many…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4192182/World-lea ders-du ped-manipulated-glo bal-war ming-data.html
Tim has posted dozens…. you obviously have ignored them …
Because the MSM has made up your mind for you already
First you attack me, accusing me of something derogatory in your mind and you have no proof only assumptions. If I did anything close to that my posts get moderated and never see the light of day. All the time you call people “Fools” and “morons” and get away with it. Second you post news from the MSM to make your case, that you repeatedly deride others for taking notice of. Thirdly you appeal to your “higher authority” Tim, who I guarantee most here completely ignore because he is equivalent to Dolph.
The MSM article you cherry picked is easily debunked with the simplest of googling http://www.snopes.com/2017/02/08/noaa-scientists-climate-change-data/
Do you have any othe results from your “heavy research”.
More on is a compliment — it means you are part of the club… a VIP member at that…. don’t take it the wrong way….
‘Fact checking’ website Snopes on verge of collapse after founder is accused of fraud, lies, and putting prostitutes and his honeymoon on expenses (and it hasn’t told its readers THOSE facts)
‘Fact-checking’ website Snopes is asking its users for help in a GoFundMe saying an ‘outside vendor’ is ‘holding it hostage’
But the site which claims to be ‘transparent’ and to tell people the facts they need to know hasn’t told those donating everything that is going on
In fact it is at the center of a bitter legal battle with its CEO being accused of fraud, lies, conspiracy and putting prostitutes and his honeymoon on expenses
David Mikkelson set up company which owns Snopes.com in 2003 with then wife Barbara but she sold her 50 per cent stake during bitter divorce
Owners of company which provided it with tech and advertising services bought her stake but have now fallen out with Mikkelson and call him a fraudster
Case could see judge order site closed – despite it being chosen by Facebook to arbitrate on fake news
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4730092/Snopes-brink-founder-accused-fraud-lying.html#ixzz4sKXSi5Uu
I don’t claim to be an authority on anything, and I don’t claim to be right, but when I set out an opinion, I can usually back it up with something a bit more authoritative than a link to Snopes.
http://www.tinfoilcowboyhat.com/memes/snopes.jpg
The only source worse than snopes on this issue is the MSM — because the MSM is a Lie Factory.
Your research doesn’t appear to have been very competent.
When you post studies about satellite data integrity endorsed by economists…
When you repeat talking points like Greenland was once green…
When your use of logic is not quite accurate… There is no reasonable claim in saying that lies about our response to climactic Armageddon disprove the existence of it. You constantly trumpet your mastery of logic but you display a faltering application of it. That’s the sad truth.
CNN! CNN! CNN! CNN! CNN! CNN! CNN! CNN! CNN!
Where every story is a LIE —- except those concerning ________________
Are you implying Greenland was not green In the past? If so you are ignorant.
Chopping down the planet’s forests have a far greater impact on the planet than burning coal does …. burning coal would actually be good for trees because they love that carbon!
In fact massive areas have been turned to desert because we destroyed the forests and used the land for farming
But nobody gets too upset by any of this… I don’t see anyone shouting Death to Farmers!
On the contrary — utopia always includes a farmer….
Future, it is amusing for you to mention data integrity “endorsed by economists”. The fake global,warming data modified and “adjusted” by AGW scientists is the true data integrity problem.
‘Trust me — the data is not fake — I am an economist/klimate scientist’ 🙂
Meanwhile on FW — the same people who are citing klimmmate data from economists….
Are accusing the MSM and these economists of faking job numbers… GDP numbers…. etc etc etc…
Funny that.
Indoctrination does funny things to the mind….
Simple – you are incompetent researcher and employ faulty logic.
Feel free to explain the faulty logic.
I suggest you start with addressing the fact that a gggwwww scientist blew the whistle on his mates who faked the numbers because they indicated the planet had no wwwwwed in 20 years
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4192182/World-leaders-duped-manipulated-glo———-bal-war————ming-data.html
For anyone with half a brain who was not already indoctrinated by the MSM on this issue — that would be the end of the conversation
It would be like playing poker — and finding out the guy who was winning most of the hands was cheating.
But nope — you fools just keep on playing — ignoring the fact that he is cheating…and believing he is the greatest poker player on the planet
And, this will be the *FIRST TIME* two Category 4 hurricanes will make consecutive landfalls in the United States.
Can you prove that?
Keeping in mind weather records do not exist for most of the billions of years that the land mass known as the USA has existed.
FIRST TIME* two Category 4 hurricanes will make consecutive landfalls in the United States.
Umm, that would be since the United States was founded. Not talking about when bacteria was a boy.
https://media.giphy.com/media/XD4qHZpkyUFfq/giphy.gif
And, I have nothing to prove to you FE. I’ve been on here for a long time. Folks know I don’t post b.s. Where I do make a mistake, I retract or apologise for it, as shown recently with my comments regarding Hurricane Harvey, which were in poor taste.
I do not do apologies. I do not care if I step on toes. I am not politically correct.
Although if the facts line up against me I am very quick to admit that I was wrong.
When I have had an epiphany — I become a category 10 hurricane.
I leave nothing but death and destruction in my path.
I have had my epiphany re ____ ______ I have finally opened my eyes…. How could I have been such a fool for so many years. I feel great shame that I could have been played by the MSM Al Gore and Leo for so long.
Shame on me. Shame shame shame… stewwwpid Fast….
Hmmm … did they call them Category 4 storms in the 1700’s… or did they just call them big storms?
And you are going to prove that the hurricanes are mad made right?
Where’s the evidence?
And, this will be the *FIRST TIME* two Category 4 hurricanes will make consecutive landfalls in the United States.
I don’t know anything about that as I’ve not been able to measure all the hurricanes that have landed in the US since 1776. But if that’s so, what’s the significance of the event? From a clim-ate perspective, how is a storm that’s Cat 4 at the time of hitting the US coast any different to a Cat 4 that hits Mexico or Cuba or whooshes past the Atlantic coast of Florida, or a storm that was Cat 4 in the Caribbean or the Gulf of Mexico and then dropped windspeed before reaching the beach? Are you mentioning this in passing as something like Guinness Book of Records tallest oak tree, longest faaaaaaart, most hamburgers eaten at a single session type record, or are you presenting it as being evidence of anything in particular other than coincidence?
When we consider that there were four Cat 4 Atlantic Hurricanes recorded in 1926, three in 1933, three in 1950, three in 1958, four in 1964, three in 1995, five in 1999, three in 2004, four in 2008, four in 2010, and none at all in many other years, one thing that clearly emerges is that Atlantic hurricane frequency and strength is extremely variable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Category_4_Atlantic_hurricanes#1851.E2.80.931900
FIRST TIME* two Category 4 hurricanes will make consecutive landfalls in the United States.
Umm, that would be since the United States was founded.
https://media.giphy.com/media/XD4qHZpkyUFfq/giphy.gif
Gosh, should I be super scared?
Be whatever you want to be.
The MSM had me quaking in my shoes with all those headlines…
I thought the world was about to end!!!
Not
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlantic_hurricanes_in_the_18th_century
No wind speeds… so how does he know they were not bigger than irma?
Great Hurricane of 1780
Specifics on the hurricane’s track and strength are unknown because the official Atlantic hurricane database only goes back to 1851.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hurricane_of_1780
I see…. we only have detailed records for less than 200 yrs of activity……
https://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-and-apply-logic-8.png
the main thing you can do now is get as far away from spent fuel ponds and big popular cities as they could be nuked in the event of a nuclear war anywhere where there are US bases get as far as you can go then you may have a slim chance of survival if you get lucky
https://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i-w600/go-crazy-because-there-is-nowhere-to-hide.jpg
Hi, it is a long time since I last posted here. Some comments
1. Humans cannot handle black swan events. I mean a real black swan event. Think about find a real black swan when everyone said there were none on earth.
2. Black swans have the potential to destroy the status in a blink
3. Rather than working towards preparing for a black swan event, people tend to debate, troll, criticize, etc.
4. Norman did say many times that we may be in a lot of trouble over a totally unpredicted event in which no one has any way to prepare.
Have a look at https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/gen-comm/info-notices/1993/in93053.html
Hurricane Andrew actually damaged the nuclear power plants in Florida in 1992. After 25 years, another large hurricane will hit. People on ZH are commenting that ZH is playing the doom news and like MSM having a field day telling people the worse when it is now Cat 4 instead of Cat 5. That is what I mean by item #3 above.
After 25 years of wear, tear, negligence and people forgetting what has happened 25 years ago (they may have retired), I am pretty sure that the nuclear power plant (NPP) may not be in good shape. The gasket may lose its waterproofing capability, etc (complacency). i.e. see Fukushima
The black swan event – what if the hurricane actually destroyed the NPP and the strong winds actually sent all the radioactive materials all over? Gail’s house was punctured by a 1pound “glow-in-dark” lump of a spent fuel. What should she do? Take a bag and put it in and throw in to garbage bin? The entire eastern seaboard will be thoroughly contaminated.
Who is going to manage all the nuclear power plants when people refuse to go to work knowing very well that everyone is going to die very soon ? Ask yourself, do you want to go to work if you know you have no where to run and hide and that within a matter of days, you will die? You might as well take a bottle of drugs and go away painlessly.
The rest of the NPP will probably suffer the same fate as the ones in Florida when no one wants to manage them
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/NRC_regions_and_plant_locations_2008.jpg
One week later, in Xabier’s garden, he will have glow in the dark cabbage while Norman will have a fine coat of radioactive dust courtesy of jetstream. The whole of Europe will be contaminated as well.
With US gone and one week later Europe is contaminated, the financial world will collapse and internet disappeared within days. The rest of the world who trades in US dollars, export to Europe, travel to Europe disappeared, it will be a matter of days before the rest of the world is gone.
What are the chances of it happening? It is not zero for sure. Instead of doing something, if this asked elsewhere on the internet, you will be labelled as “the sky is falling”.
You cannot cure “stup.idity” and no matter how small an event it is, a “really intelligent” life form should not discard it even if the chances of happening is just 1%.
there are some natural plants that can protect you from radiation one is the lemon i have read unfortunately conditions are not present to test that theory out
Bentonite clay was used as a body paste for Cherno.bill if I recall correctly.
Clays are some of the most amazing of natures products.
But if this breakdown goes global, what good is such knowledge?
interesting info lastcall thanx if the breakdown goes global and all you have is that knowledge it may save your life and others too if they let you help them
Why don’t you try it — rub lemons on your body — and eat a few slices — then venture into the fukushima reactor area…..
I will buy you a plane ticket — but you first need to sign over your life insurance policy to me
Deal?
you’d have to wear a lot of lead, which would slow your escape speed, to maximize the distance between you and the radiation source ASAP.
Comprehensive land use planning for that 1% chance.
absolutely if the land is used for resilient fruit trees a 1 % chance is better than nothing im thinking citrus trees are very resilient and provide great medicinal value and nourishment
I hadn’t heard about citrus as a remedy for radiation. It should be well researched, And to the extent that it helps, it should be planted very widely. (That would be in warmer climates than mine.)
There’s a kind of potassium supplement that I know of–not just any potassium, but I forget which kind.
Beyond using land to plant trees (which can be a very complex issue due to soil condition, land ownership and such) I think of land use planning as being optimal planning for a given jurisdiction of land. People living near nuclear plants could be rewarded to store fuel, and be able to monitor radiation, dispense remedies, have an evacuation plan, plant and manage appropriate forestries, be trained to manage nuclear facilities as feasible, etc. There should also be a water storage plan that is pretty much fail safe, with lots of redundancy…
Beyond using land to plant trees (which can be a very complex issue due to soil condition, land ownership and such) I think of land use planning as being optimal planning for a given jurisdiction of land. People living near nuclear plants could be rewarded to store fuel, and be able to monitor radiation, dispense remedies, have an evacuation plan, plant and manage appropriate forestries, be trained to manage nuclear facilities as feasible, etc. There should also be a water storage plan that is pretty much fail safe, with lots of redundancy…
My neighbour has a commercial lemon orchard…. they use smoker pot heaters to protect the trees from frost… they use diesel for those heaters….
hi, CTG.
“What are the chances of it happening? It is not zero for sure.”
yes, correct.
but it looks close to 100% that a CAT 4 will hit Florida on Sunday.
meaning that millions of persons will be dealing with the negative effects of powerful quantities of wind and water.
do they have any inclination to think about Black Swans?
I predict more deaths from wind and water than from radiation.
welcome back ctg definitely natural disasters were not on my radar as a black swan event but now they seem like the most logical trigger for a lot of calamities that can occur in the future even the financial collapse could occur
You may not have heard that two nuclear plants that are directly in the pat of the storm (Turkey Point and St. Lucie) are being closed down because of Hurricane Irma. I believe there are three others elsewhere in Florida, and several in Georgia and South Carolina. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4863880/Officials-two-nuclear-plants-Florida.html
They claim to be ready for whatever. We will see.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/09/08/florida-nuclear-plants-could-take-a-direct-hit-from-hurricane-irma-plant-owners-say-they-are-ready/?utm_term=.34290d910a9b
Thanks Gail. This is what I copied from the Washington Post.
“We have safely operated these plants for over 40 years,” Silagy said.
There are many instances in history where similar lines were said….
Wow! 40 years. That is such a long time. Shirley, it will never have problems – ever. It is proven and time tested! What load of $hit. I am not impressed. If it were 4000 years I might be singing a different tune. But, 40. That is nothing.
One more thing – as per FE, it is not the reactor that is the concern but the Spent Fuel Pond that is the issue.
That is the blackest of the black swan. The reactor was shutdown but the Spent Fuel Ponds are the ones causing the problem.
Fact is, they are shutting them down just short of the landing of the hurricane, so apparently it’s a set procedure. They know when the hurricane is due to arrive and they know how long it takes to safely shut them down and they apparently are familiar with clocks. Who woulda thunk it? I guess they take nuclear power plants seriously.
Thanks CTG. You’ve painted a very sombre potential future scenario following a black swan. I won’t stay awake worrying about this one, but I would also say “never say never.” Something nasty on a massive is bound to happen eventually and we won’t collectively be prepared for it. That’s in the nature of things.
For a bit of doomer entertainment, let me introduce you all to the Deagel Military Website. For several years now, they have have projections for how the world and its various countries will be doing in 2025. The projection for the US is sobering to say the least. Population is slated to crash to 54 million and GDP per capita is pictured as falling to $16,956. Click on you country and see what Deagel has in store for you! And as I say, it’s all good clean fun.
http://www.deagel.com/country/United-States-of-America_c0001.aspx
Tim, there is no point losing sleep over it. As most of the “seniors” here know that, we live a full life and enjoy every waking moment. We don’t regret anything and look forward to what tomorrow offers.
This is Turkey Point in Florida
https://www.fpl.com/clean-energy/nuclear/images/turkey-point-plant.gif
St. Lucie
https://www.fpl.com/clean-energy/nuclear/images/st-lucie-plant.gif
They are no more than 3 feet off the sea level and it is by the sea.
From Wikipedia
While Hurricane Irma was bearing down on south Florida on September 8, 2017, an opinion piece in The New York Times observed that Turkey Point is vulnerable to the threat of a storm-caused nuclear meltdown. The Turkey Point nuclear power station sits on an exposed island in Biscayne Bay, about 25 miles south of Miami. Built in the early 1970s, the aging plant depends on similar vulnerable backup systems to prevent a meltdown as those of Japan’s Fukushima plant, which is still leaking radiation. Although Turkey Point’s main reactors are 20 feet above sea level, the plant’s diesel-powered backup generators, which keep cooling water circulating through the reactors when power is knocked out, are less elevated and less well insulated, according to Phil Stoddard, the mayor of South Miami
Irma has been upgraded to Cat 5
I am not a doom monger but for most people the real hard cold facts are too much to absorb and they assume that “by not thinking about it, it will not be a problem”
You’re quite right. The Florida coast doesn’t look like a smart to put nuclear plants.
“3. Rather than working towards preparing for a black swan event, people tend to debate, troll, criticize, etc.”
I’ll take # 3 please! Frogs get boiled in a slowly rising temp. pan of water without realizing it. Yeast over indulge until they die out. Humans endlessly bicker back and forth on every single topic and detail until the day of reckoning (black swan event) slaps them upside their collective heads with a 2 x 4. These 3 species are all examples that let us know consciousness takes a long time to ascend to higher levels. Humans are not there yet – not anywhere near close to anything resembling a cogent thought process to reach a consensus in a timely manner.
Yes, CTG, there are certainly some not-improbable, not-impossible, events of a magnitude that cannot be overcome by any preparation.
A bit like the bear’s paw swiping you good and hard in the days when we were running about with spears.
Game over.
Increasingly, I’m thinking in Neolithic terms: ‘I survived today’s hunt, lets see what tomorrow brings!’ 🙂
A 1% probability of this happening is fair. A bit more probable is that we get another Fukushima-like event where slowly but surely the ocean gets filled with glowy stuff.
I still think it will be a long, bumpy road down towards oblivion. And the final nail in the coffin will be a string of antibiotic-resistant pandemics, because at one point down this road we will lack the critical mass of resources needed to fight off nature’s way.
Yes, quite likely.
Far too many resources are spent preserving and extending useless lives anyway.
One has to know and accept when to pass on: to oblivion or………
Indeed. When we no longer have the luxury of technology to mediate our relationship with nature, it will reassert itself against us in the time-honoured ways. Disease, starvation & violence.
My hunch is that it won’t be all that long or a bumpy a ride. Population crashes at the end of overshoot don’t tend to work themselves out in that way. In fact, the more damage a species does to its environment, the greater the resulting die-off.
And baby, we’ve done a lot of damage.
http://images.slideplayer.com/16/5025385/slides/slide_7.jpg
With over 400 nuclear plants around and (I’m told) thousands of fuel ponds that are more potentially deadly, I don’t know why we’d think a loss of luck (?), providence (?) wouldn’t bring about wholesale human extinction in short order.
Zheng Chenggong (called Coxinga by the Westerners) survived the Black Swan event, and actually managed to defeat the Hollandish power in Formosa. Sorry, it is not that simple.
I regularly see hundreds of black swans in the golden bay area of NZ 🙂
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/41/f6/fb/41f6fbe432a106416c30935f9cc9a5b3–bird-wallpaper-friends-wallpaper.jpg
In times of plenty, we are generous beings. We expand our horizons, we give charitably to noble causes, we try to see that just about everyone is housed and fed. In times of safety, we can provide medical care and social support for almost everyone. But when things get scarce, people get ugly. They dehumanize people who are not like themselves, and convince themselves that they’re superior, so that they don’t feel guilt when they have the resources to survive and others don’t. They believe they’re better so that they feel justified taking down other people in their fight for survival.
As things get scarce, and it becomes clear that we can’t save everyone, expect the world to tear itself apart fighting for the last scraps of whatever is left.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
It would be nice if this happened!
the bible is full of wisdom of how life could be and may be if we all co-operated and worked as a team instead of against each other we would need to live in a different way recognizing there are limits to our actions
Koombaya my lord….
“As things get scarce, and it becomes clear that we can’t save everyone, expect the world to tear itself apart fighting for the last scraps of whatever is left.”
They will too. People are great survivors and in times of less that pits brother against brother. It will get cruel and heartless.
That much is true. I’ve seen plenty of cruel and heartless behavior even among the fairly prosperous, but I’m sure some humans will do horrible things because their will to survive trumps all other consideration, and some humans will do horrible things simply because they can get away with it.
There7s one thing you can say about mankind
There’s nothing kind about man
https://youtu.be/Rz_xVE3EMeU
and that is why it is a good idea to learn to live on less for example i can live on 50- 500 calories a day it can be done you just have to give it a go ‘collapse now’ is my motto
if you consume 50 calories a day for a few weeks…
yes, I suspect you will indeed “collapse”.
Even 500 calories a day doesn’t work indefinitely.
its been about over one year now on living on living on an average of 500 calories a day i weighed over 100 kilos back then now i weigh just over 60 kilos i feel fantastic so relaxed i dont do much physical activity if i do then i simply eat more calories per day but as i don’t do much physical activity i’m pretty much on 500 calories a day on average. conventional thinking tell us it cant be done but the unconventional thinkers say that it can be done the bible too has some interesting stories of reduced caloric intake
“… i weighed over 100 kilos back then now i weigh just over 60 kilos…”
just think…
in another year or so, you’ll be down to 20 kilos!
maybe the “adonis diet” will be the next big thing!
“big”… well…
Wow, 500 calories a day?! I tip my hat to you, but keep in mind you actually used more calories because you were losing weight. That weight was fat that got converted to calories burned. So now you’re thinner you might want to increase that to something like 700.
My Father was a great picture of strength and health until his wife, my stepmother got him on a something beach diet and he lost a lot of weight. At first he claimed great vitality but he didn’t look right to me. He had lost so much of his mass, his muscles, his flesh I worried for him. Three years later he started having multiple strokes and was never the same. One of the warnings by physicians for older people is try not to lose too much of your body mass. You don’t want to be too over weight, but too thin and on too few calories is a danger too. The mind is a powerful thing, but be careful not to do a Bruce Lee to yourself by depriving your body of necessary nutrition.
Why deny yourself…. if you like eating pizza and cola with ice cream for every meal… just do it
Just go fullhedon if that makes you happy
There is no future
On the other hand, one can only be truly generous in times of scarcity – in times of plenty it has no meaning.
Only in hard times can one be noble.
Our current ‘generosity’ is often just disguised laziness and greed – ie everyone should have something so that I can have something. Such people will indeed turn rather nasty when the free gifts are taken away.
I have always found the poorest people, and those who have worked for what they have, to be the kindest and most generous: they were the people who helped me when I was in trouble, the most cheerful and the least likely to blame.
In the cholera epidemics of the 19th century in England, it was noted how kind the poor people were to one another.
There is a much lower tier of people who are morally debased -these are the drug takers, petty thieves of today, etc. Never to be trusted.
And the poor people leave no genes. As Gregory Clark has proved. The ones who can exploit others best for their own advantage survive.
Maybe it was so and maybe it will become again. But currently poor leaves more genes.
Our true nature goes on exhibit… when the end of more arrives….
Jose upgraded to Category 4 hurricane as it heads to islands already destroyed by Irma
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/jose-irma-hurricane-path-track-category-4-speed-island-caribbean-barbuda-a7936576.html
Jose is tracking a bit north of Irma’s path.
hey, Florida is getting a full strength storm.
the Carolinas should get one, too.
spread the wealth around.
fair is fair.
Yeah, looks like decimated Barbuda to get desiccated by Jose. Any remaining structures softened up by Irma will fold when hit again.
One quote ” Most models don’t impact United States, but we’ll keep an eye on it.” http://www.express.co.uk/news/weather/852707/Hurricane-Jose-path-update-map-loop-Florida-Caribbean-USA-National-Hurricane-Center-NHC
http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/153/590x/secondary/Hurricane-Jose-path-update-1061878.png
Soon the world will be structured, with the so-called FIRE industries and selected tech companies owning everything on earth and the remainder being reduced to serfs.
It can’t really be avoided.
Not if the FIRE companies are on the hook for all of the promised pensions, long term care insurance polices, and annuities with minimum annual returns.
Actually, as I see the situation, ultimately the people who grow the food and make the basic goods needed for everyday living will need to get a disproportionate share of the output of the economy, if the economy is poorer, and these people are to be properly rewarded for their efforts. (Otherwise, they will stop doing these tasks.) This would suggest that the retirees, and all of those with big accounts in the FIRE industries will get next to nothing.
yes.
in a few decades (or less!), “retirement” will just mean a person stopped working, and will have nothing to do with collecting money.
and almost no one will even know what the word “pension” means.
Yeah, retirement was simply a perk of the oil age. It’s already going away, fast.
I agree. No one I know has a penny saved for retirement. Their employers offer no retirement benefits. And, they live pay check to pay check. Not very good prospects for retirement.
The savings may prove not to be worth much, anyhow, even if they have been saved.
Savings are somewhat illusory also.
Historically, pensions were simply annual payments from government funds to reward favoured people.
I have a pension application by my family from the 18th century, to the King of Spain, claiming it as a reward for regularly serving in the Imperial Spanish army over the previous three centuries. We died all over the place – Netherlands, Italy, the Great Armada.
Pensions weren’t for nobodies. Only the desire to avert revolution by the urban masses led to the extension of pensions in industrial economies, and this was made possible by fossil fuels.
Party over now. What a rude awakening it will be!
The people who grow the food never did well in history. I have read the histories of the people who came to America during the 19th century, and they ate worse than, say, how Liberians eat now when they were in Europe. The landowners got all the good stuff (and ate very well). Such was the norm for all of history and such will be the norm if a nuclear disaster does not kill us all.
Vitamin World plans to file for bankruptcy, Perfumania Holdings just filed. And Toys R Us… All in just two weeks.
Bon-Ton Stores, Inc., which operates about 260 department stores largely in the Northeast and Midwest under the names Bon-Ton, Bergner’s, Boston Store, Carson’s, Elder-Beerman, Herberger’s, and Younkers, has hired PJT Partners, which describes itself as “a leading advisor to companies and creditors in restructurings and bankruptcies around the world.”
Faced with falling sales and customer traffic, the company is trying to refinance debt and prepare for a possible bankruptcy filing, “people familiar with the matter” told the Wall Street Journal.
https://wolfstreet.com/2017/09/08/brick-mortar-meltdown-bon-ton-department-stores-hires-bankruptcy-advisor/
And they’re heading into the final stretch … it’s Peak Oil and Financial Armageddon neck and neck ….it’s Financial Armageddon by a head….
We now go to this commercial break brought to you by Hopium…..
There will be only one retailer remaining in the world, Amazon, and Jeff Bezos will name the price of everything according to his whim.
Omg. It’s the apocalypse! Vitamin world is closing!!!!…. …. …. I’ll believe it when Foot Inserts are Us shuts down. Now that’s serious stuff!!!
my local Foot-Inserts-R-Us just closed this year.
I have to drive an hour to get to the next closest one.
but my feet are worth it.
on the other hand (or foot):
it still seems that at this RATE of store closings, BAU has a few more years to go, and perhaps may reach 2030.
but as grandma used to ask:
who the heck knows?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-08/102-billion-credit-card-debt-student-and-auto-loans-was-just-wiped-away
How does one qualify to be part of ‘whatever it takes’?
Those are strange adjustments. If it were just changes to the government student loan program, I could understand some kind of a write-off affecting quite a few periods. But these seem to reflect debt given out by others.
Burning Man Festival 2017
https://imgur.com/a/Kp9bs
http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/dance/7950055/man-who-ran-into-burning-man-festival-2017-fire-dies
Some guy ran into that fire and didn’t survive. What his motivation was one can only speculate.
my sources tell me that thousands of “gre-en” persons use massive amounts of fossil fuels to travel to this event.
where they apparently worship the combustion of some sort of huge “man” and the release into the atmosphere of large amounts of cee-owe-two and air pollutants.
It’s really amazing what people will do to feel like they belong to something greater than themselves and try and convince themselves that some giant bonfire transcends their soul, at least temporarily. Kind of sad really that people feel a need to do that.
The secret of Totalitarianism.
Recently, the Slovak Lutheran Church in Slovakia (Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession in Slovakia) strip one of its theologians who supports the LGBTI rights of a canonical mission, i.e. he can not teach at the Comenius University’s Evangelical Theological Faculty.
https://spectator.sme.sk/c/20643290/theologian-who-attended-pride-prevented-from-teaching.html
What strikes me, is this similar attitude towards LGBTI rights with Japan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Japan#Marriage
The Lutheran Church in Slovakia is more conservative than other Lutheran churches in the world. It is already the second case recently:
https://spectator.sme.sk/c/20574479/evangelic-church-dismissed-priest-for-supporting-same-sex-marriages.html?ref=av-center
Is the lack of the domestic energy sources like coal, oil and natural gas and the mountaineous character of the country, divided into various separate valleys (like Japan with its mountains and islands), the reason for this? Is not there a need for larger amounts of energy to keep such states from desintegration?
Before fossil fuels, there was (almost) a need to have as many children as possible. An there was a lot of work to be done at home, including taking care of all of the children.
With more fossil fuel based wealth came the view that women should have more equal rights with men. If two people of the same sex want to get together, that is OK. The government pays many benefits that are based on marriage, so whether or not two people are married makes a difference.
I expect that the countries that have a negative view of LGBTI rights are some combination of (1) poorer, and (2) able to hold to tradition, because they have excluded foreigners. Japan does a very good job of passing its heritage on to its children. The religions of the country are very close to state religions. I expect that Slovak Lutheran people are relatively poor, compared to Lutherans elsewhere. They probably have also been able to avoid intermixing with other peoples.
You are right–separate islands do need more energy, and do keep groups of people more isolated. Separate mountain areas may make a difference as well. I have heard that in Norway, there were a large number of dialects spoken before modern transportation allowed easier transportation.
Yes, there is also a lot of dialects dependeding on the division by the valleys in Slovakia. The Slovak nation was in fact “created” in the 19th century from similar dialects in this area of Carpathian Mountains choosing one of the dialects as the base for the modern Slovak language.
It was the Lutherans who created the modern Slovak language, although they preffered Czech for centuries before. What is also interesting, the Lutherans in Slovakia are quite a small community today (maybe that is the reason why they are so conservative), as their members were more prone to become atheists during the communism or return to catholicism.
During the rise of protestantism in the 16th century, 80 percents of Slovakia were protestant (http://www.tvnoviny.sk/domace/1859827_kedysi-bola-tristvrtina-slovenska-evanjelicka-dnes-je-ich-sotva-6-percent). In 1921, the Lutherans formed 12 percents of the population (https://www.zones.sk/studentske-prace/dejepis/13654-10-nabozenske-pomery-v-prvej-csr/). Today, they form about 6 percents. They somewhat become a moderate, conservative, traditional and even outdated and disappearing minority.
The rise of other modern sect-like protestant churches with more aggresive marketing today is another topic.
On the whole, the Japanese are an extremely socially conservative people. They much prefer to let other braver and more radical peoples experiment with innovations. Then if they turn out to be obviously successful, the Japanese will consider debating whether it might be a good idea to do some feasibility studies with a view to setting up a committee to look into the possibility of issuing a report that can form a basis for discussion between interested parties into the pros and cons of potentially adopting these innovations in the homeland at some future date.
At present, the Japanese are waiting on the sidelines to see whether Europe and America evolve into LTGBI equal rights superpowers while straight white guys are neutered and forced to wear a collar and leash when leaving home, or whether they will transform into Muslim theocracies where women are required to bag up before leaving home and gays are bungee-jumped off tall buildings without a bungee. Once the West has worked out where its destiny lies,I’m sure the Japanese will take due note and act accordingly.
Amusing, Tim, and as far as Western Europe is concerned, all too true.
The feminisation and demonistion of ‘white’ (racism anyone?) heterosexual men proceeds apace. The Guardian is now almost unreadable with its articles on ‘toxic masculinity’: it’s quite acceptable, it seems, to insult men in general in this way.
I’ve come into contact with quite a few Iranians, Turks, Russians, Kurds, Afghans, and they are noticeably more confident in their masculinity than many Englishmen these days – once one of the most violent and martial races in Europe (witness 100 Years War, etc).
The macho factor is still quite high in Spain, although some young men are selling out to the LGBTXYZ crowd, to gain brownie points as cool modern Leftists I suppose.
When certain kinds of women get the kind of men they think they want, they’ll discover that they are not up to much: skin-tight leggings and make-up don’t really cut the ice in this world.
So what would be wrong about ensuring that women and men are equally represented in governance?
When we go back to simpler systems, we can no longer have an expensive system like elected government.
I expect that if there are rulers at all, they will be kings and queens. Or leaders of local hunter-gatherer groups. There could be a matriarchy or a system revolving around men.
🙂 I ,must be reading too much into FE’s thesis: Before we could get to hunting and gathering, we’d get blitzed by radiation.
There will be no food — so in short order we will all starve – and yes even those people have a garden out back…. disease will also be a problem
The radiation will be what points those who are still suffering … out of their misery …
It will not take very long — once the ponds ignite — to flood the planet with radiation … the jet stream will carry the poisons rapidly — as will the ocean currents….
The effects will start showing up everywhere literally within weeks.
I posted earlier that radiation from Fukushima reaches the west coast of north america in 6 days….
It will take longer to reach the likes of New Zealand …. perhaps a month? So we get to suffer for longer down here…
Dear Fast Eddy,
“It will not take very long — once the ponds ignite — to flood the planet with radiation … the jet stream will carry the poisons rapidly — as will the ocean currents….”
Well, in fact, this seems to be the real biblical apocalypse – caused by the energy sources going out of the control of the humans.
Yep …. and it was this knowledge that set me free….. free as a bird…. when BAU goes … we all go…
So follow my lead…. LLL …. then go quietly into the night…. when the centre fails to hold….
Xabier,
The cool modern Leftist draw is something to consider seriously and critically. But some alternative where one might not be acting just as absurdly is hard to come by.
– Among the macho men there are plenty of pederasts. I don’t find that admirable, since they remain macho at the expense of small boys.
– We are at a crossroads (leading to several possibilities that include extinction). Gender roles should be reevaluated at a time like this.
– The period of abundant FFs that seems to be ending brought about a high degree of gender equality (though very far from enough for some). Jobs that previously demanded male muscles were replaces by the touch of a button. Physical gender attributes came less to determine what jobs women could do.
– Gradual economic downturn means that women have had to work and take on head of household responsibilities.
– Global networked civilization connected by social media is unprecedented in human history. Social beliefs are now so diverse that the issue of gender roles globally is in a state of flux, probably requiring more nuanced thinking than was heretofore necessary.
– Widespread homosexuality did not deter Greek culture in its militarism and athleticism.
– Well, if you were using Kate Hepburn as an authority anyway, homosexuality proliferates with the (perception?) that the planet is overcrowded. (I don’t necessarily think that it is.)
– An interesting point that doesn’t get enough attention is with some young males having to join the gay lifestyle to get approval. Why is there not a better way to get approval?
– While you will hardly ever hear it said that the planet isn’t overpopulated, the fact that traditional feminine roles are part of encouraging women to have babies is apparently up for review.
– Maybe gender roles could be a more subtle affair in these times, and more oriented to the question of whether we go extinct or not?
I recall a major campaign in Hong Kong some years ago trying to convince men that they need to wear make up …. just a minimal amount ….
It failed.
Seems this is one of the few instances where Don Draper has failed
A am not sure that there is something like Muslim way: Japan with its population decline shows us that when the depletion prevails (and it will prevail, as we used the cheap energy to deplete everything beyond our previous limits), there is little space for something like gay marriages or the rise of Muslims:
“The history of Islam in Japan is relatively brief in relation to the religion’s longstanding presence in other nearby countries. Islam is one of the smallest minority faiths in Japan, having more adherents in the country than the Bahá’í faith, but fewer than Christianity.”
…
“According to japanfocus.org, as of 2009 there were 30 to 40 single-story mosques in Japan plus another 100 or more apartment rooms set aside for prayers in the absence of more suitable facilities. 90% of these mosques use the 2nd floor for religious activities and the first floor as a halal shop (Imported food; mainly from Indonesia and Malaysia), due to financial problems, as membership is too low to cover the expenses. Most of these Mosques have only a capacity of 30 to 50 people.”
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Japan
In Northern Spain there are still remnants of old ‘valley republics’ – I suppose like the cantons of Switzerland before they came together – which are now just municipal authorities with some picturesque ceremonies in folk dress.
Mountainous places can be held together as a kind of state, with only wood or peat for fuel,and feet or horses and mules for transport: it would be more like a confederation of chieftains, under some kind of a king.
But the kingdom would have no institutions as such, no army, no bureaucracy,etc, as it would lack the necessary surpluses. It could only hold meetings to debate issues vital to the community, co-ordinate action,and hold religious ceremonies. Not a bad life at all.
Nice work (life) if you can get it. The question is how you apply that on a global scale while maintaining industrial capacity. And I guess mountainous areas have a geographic shield against hostile forces. But most places that would organize similarly if they could don’t have that shield. Then again, Turtle Island was a bit like that–peoples getting together on occasion, but no central bureaucracy. Same thing with much of pre-European-invasion Africa (and elsewhere)?
In addition to the factors mentioned, there is also debt deflation as more and more capital moves from the economy of real goods to the financial economy.
this may explain why Bitcoin is now $4,600…
persons with “money” need to “invest” it somewhere.
oh, wait…
Bitcoin down today to $4,300…
wow…
a few more days like that and its bubble may burst.
alter ego: “What? No way Bitcoin is a bubble!”
me: “Do Bitcoins even really exist?”
Anti-left ‘kill list’ kept by far-right German lawyer and policeman
http://www.dw.com/en/anti-left-kill-list-kept-by-far-right-german-lawyer-and-policeman/a-40387021
The wars also add to the spending and so they are a net benefit to the economy, also for a while. It is so encouraging for our continued existence as a species…
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-73.07,16.16,1234
nice pic…
If you zoom out a bit, there is a nice depression southeast of Jose. It’s Lee…
What kind of effect will these storms, including Harvey will have on the US “economy”?
As I was explaining earlier, destruction gives a huge opportunity for rebuilding. In fact, a big war, like World War II, is ideal for this purpose. All a person needs is (a) the ability to add lots of debt, and (b) lots of cheap-to-extract resources to use for the rebuilding. The combination adds lots of jobs, and greatly helps GDP.
Our problems at this point are (2) We are reaching limits in the amount of debt we can add. Governments are over-extended; so are homeowners; and(2) The energy resources available to us today are no longer cheap-to-extract. The prices we are paying for energy products are to a significant extent below the cost of production. This cannot go on for long. We are waiting for a crash in this sector.
So, if we can add enough debt, the hurricanes will at least for a while be a net benefit to the economy. They might even help get commodity prices up a little higher, so that they are closer to what producers need.
Insurance companies have been having a problem with low rates because it has been so long since there has been significant US hurricanes (2005). They need more hurricanes to get the rate level up. The hurricanes will help in this regard.
Gail rebuilding does not help the economy. This is called the broken window fallacy in Economics.
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/broken-window-fallacy.asp
Well if someone is willing to create debt to pay for window repairs, then all is well in the short run!
Thanks for this! It is so simple (good!) and straightforward. Correlated with Bastiat’s thinking is that when something is destroyed, the finite (and ever entropy-bound) energy source that created it (embodied energy) is diminished, leading to long term and systemic economic decline.
I like this from Kunstler:
You’ve heard the old argument, I’m sure, that a natural disaster turns out to be a boon for the economy because so many people are employed fixing the damage. It’s not true, of course.
Replacing things of value that have been destroyed with new things is just another version of the old Polish Blanket Gag: guy wants to make his blanket longer, so he cuts a foot off the top and sews it onto the bottom.
The capital expended has to come from something and somewhere, and in this case it probably represents the much talked-about necessary infrastructure spending that is badly needed for bridges, roads, water and sewer systems, et cetera, in all the other parts of the USA that haven’t been hit by storms. Instead, these places and the things in them will quietly inch closer to criticality without drawing much notice.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/08/us/hurricane-jose/index.html
Global cooling hard at work
Meaningless statement. Give us some more meaningless stuff. We are waiting.
Take a close look at this kiddies…. this thing that calls itself ‘me’ is an excellent example of the species known as a M…ORE on.
It is a cross between a DelusiSTANI and a Parrot.
Watch how it repeats that it hears from the MSM — over and over again. It thinks it is making a point by doing so. Look at it preen – it is so pleased with itself.
One of the most ridiculous animals you will ever see.
Apparently there is a group lobbying for bathrooms for M.ore on.s…. poor things.
Pass around this bag of seeds — let’s feed the Mo re On.
So much fun!
Well, Jose is a hurricane and as a dissipative storm it does have the effect of using available energy. The question is how much energy do you want hurricanes to draw from?
Powerful hurricanes that make landfall in the US have something in common London buses.
You wait ages and ages (in this case 12 years) in vain for one to come along and then suddenly three of ’em turn up at once.
London buses…all at once… Not any more. Regular as clockwork, arrival info, cashless, CCTV, and go everywhere.
And I don’t even live in London.
Meth, coke and oil: A drug boom in the Texas shale patch
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-oil-drugs/meth-coke-and-oil-a-drug-boom-in-the-texas-shale-patch-idUSKCN1BI0F5?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+reuters/topNews+(News+/+US+/+Top+News)
I live out here in West Texas and everybody is on drugs out here. It is everywhere, not just the oil fields. Construction is hard hit by drug use as well. Keeps the judges, lawyers and police well staffed with good paying jobs though. Ironic thing is it looks like all the police and firefighters use steroids too. Looks like the drug industry is doing well.
Steroids use is institutionalized in most sports.
But but…. they are tested — says the MORE on.
Just like Lance Armstrong was tested — hundreds of times… and Marion Jones….
Oh but that’s different — says the MORE on….
The MSM said my sporting hero is tested… and he is my hero … so he would never do that….
Maybe The Onion could do a spoof on steroids and how the entire MSM conspires to not expose this.
Funny…. Justin Gatlin has been suspended twice for steroid use…. and he just won the world 100m championship …. and is clean …
He is running FASTER now … than when he was taking steroids….
That would be a great way for the The Onion to introduce this spoof….
The world is awash …. in a sea of MORE ons….. unthinking parrots dressed as humans…. spouting whatever garbage they hear in the MSM….
They are so f789ing stewpid — you can even explain to them how they are being played… and not only will they not acknowledge it — they get downright angry…. do not interrupt a More on when he is repeating a catch phrase… he has a sharp beak
My brother is a psychiatrist. A lot of his work involves people addicted to drugs.
I believe that addiction is inevitable. All people are eventually controlled by what they love. People prioritize their lives to achieve that which they love the most. Lesser loves are replaced with greater loves. Each replacement cycle intensifies the addiction. The final love that is all controlling becomes God. Everyone is a believer. Everyone is a worshipper. The only question is “Is the God you worship, worthy of your worship?”
Our political leaders would like us to worship them, as well as all of the folks putting together “peer reviewed literature.” After a person starts reading peer reviewed literature, a person realizes that at best, “peer review” means “goes along with the standard thinking of the day.” It doesn’t mean that it is right. In worse cases, it involves a lot of misunderstandings of what previous researchers thought.
Following the political leaders is equally problematic. If they do understand where we are headed, they certainly can’t tell us.
It is easy to pick apart stories from old religious texts, but there can still be a lot of underlying truths. It is no longer fashionable to believe this, however.
We live in a fake world — the matrix.
It can be very difficult to work out what parts are real — and which are fake. What we do know is most parts are fake.
My granny used to say without ironic intent that “people who take drugs must be out of their minds!”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-09-07/princeton-economist-says-opioid-epidemic-may-explain-20-labor-force-participation-de
FE finally vindicated: http://www.theonion.com/video/climate-change-researcher-describes-challenge-pull-56872
good one…
Maybe the Onion could do a follow up on this …. studies… conferences… scientists… glooooo.obal leaders…. concluding that sol..ar ene…rgy will save the w..orld….. literally trillions spent … on s…olar ener…gy initiatives … to sa..ve the wor…ld….
And then maybe a bit on how the massive conspiracy that was W..MD was followed through on and a country filled with tens of people was blown to pieces…. over a lie that was perpetrated by the ENTIRE MS.M media…..
Maybe a short piece on how the F…ed runs the world and virtually every person in America believes the president is actually the most powerful man on earth – even though they believe the axiom of ‘follow the money to find the real power’
Holy sh….. it. I think I have found my calling. Does anyone have a contact at The Onion?
I am just full of awesome ideas!!!!
Maybe the On….i on could do a follow up on this …. stu…dies… confer….ences… scie…..ntists… gloo
ooo.obal lea….ders…. concl….uding that sol..ar ene… rgy will save the w..o rld….. literally tril
lions spent … on s…ol ar ener…gy init iatives … to sa .ve the wor… ld….
And then mayb e a bit on how the ma ssive cons piracy that was W ..MD was followed through on and a cou ntry filled with te ns of p eople was blow n to pi eces…. over a li e that was perpetr ated by the ENT IRE MS.M ..
Maybe a sho rt pie ce on how the F…e d runs the wo rld and virt ually ev ery pe rson in Ameri
ca believes the presid ent is act ually the m ost powe rful man on ea rth – even tho ugh they believe the axio m of ‘follow the mo ney to find the rea l p ower’
H oly sh…..
it. I think I have found my ca lling. Does anyone have a contact at Th e O nion?
I am just full of awes ome ide as!!!!
‘good one’ right me?
You like?
http://replycandy.com/wp-content/uploads/Borat-Very-Nice-I-Like-Reaction-Face.jpg
A recent publication assumes a growing profitability of energy unit costs created by net power demand reduction from improved energy output by electricity over combustion. They expect a net of 24.3 mio permanent, full-time jobs.
Jacobson et al., 100% Clean and Renewable Wind, Water, and Sunlight All-Sector Energy Roadmaps for 139
Countries of the World, Joule (2017), http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.joule.2017.07.005
Download here: http://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351%2817%2930012-0.pdf
We are most certainly headed for 100% clean renewable wind, water and sunlight. Just not the way people are expecting.
Jacobson et al are somewhat notorious for their outlandish claims. Joule is a new journal. I saw a notice for Jacobson et al’s new report yesterday.
I first wrote about the absurdity of their ideas, back in 2009, on The Oil Drum. http://www.theoildrum.com/node/5939
Good thing he wrote another paper. Since his last paper got destroyed recently .
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/landmark-100-percent-renewable-energy-study-flawed-say-21-leading-experts/
Very informative and illuminating report, Jan. Thanks.
Gail has several times mentioned a spiritual solution in the conclusions to several of her articles. I think, given her Christian faith, she might be imagining some kind of divine intervention from outside the system. Given what I see of the past and present suffering within the system I can imagine no such intervention. Also, philosophically I have gradually moved away from any Christian faith involving some sort of belief in any transcendental God. Whilst I respect the life-enhancing ethical teachings of all all our traditions, for a while now I have been an agnostic atheist. I do however Think there is a spiritual solution if we consider spiritual to refer to the spirit of life and not any other-worldly spirit. A good starting point is Don Cupitt’s 2015 Book: Ethics in the last days of humanity. I think he says that it is possible to have complete and utter joy whatever happens. He refers to some of the sayings attributed to the character Jesus Christ in some of the more enlightened texts included in the new Testament. However, now we find that joy in the outer transience and happenstance of the flux of our life and world as it comes to us now. That is more like radical secular Buddhism that does not include any sort of karma or reincarnation. Just finding complete joy in this present utter transience and contingency.
I’m not so sure about Joy being possible, but I rather like this:
‘With food, drink, and cunning magic arts,
You tried to turn the channel’s course, to escape from Death.
But we must endure the breeze that Heaven sends;
And work for good without complaint.’
(Meditations of Marcus Aurelius.)
We tried to escape Nature with fossil fuels and their products, and this succeeded for a large minority of the world’s population, for a few generations, but now the cold wind of reality s blowing in us….
The Norse sagas and Germanic myths also teach endurance of a hard fate with bravery and without complaint. Even an atheist can see the nobility of endurance.
Also, that the soul is on a journey, the fulfillment of which lies in the Unseen world, not in daily life – this also puts the likely end of civilisation in perspective.
Perhaps the divine intervention occurs within the soul?
Marcus Aurelius also said: ‘The gods are just. If they are not – then stuff ’em!’ Or words to that effect. 🙂
Belief in God is just one form of delusion. You have demonstrated another. Fast Eddy and Davidwhatever demonstrate yet another, again and again. I’ve seen other collapse bloggers talk about how insignificant the collapse of IC would be in cosmic terms, which is another delusion.
They all boil down to an inability to come to terms with reality, i.e. a belief that something *must* be true, *must* exist etc. The ancients understood that the only way to get rid of such a belief is by facing reality on its own terms and *losing*. But no one wants to lose to reality in the age of careers, TV shows and gadgets. If we did, would we have come this far?
“Belief in God is just one form of delusion.”
Your assertion is just that, an assertion. For ALL people that have had near death experiences they would differ with you, including myself. I was a devout atheist, absolutely certain nothing else existed until I almost drowned. Tell me, why would a biological entity have dillusions when death came calling of another dimension filled with love and acceptance? Wouldn’t it make more sense for the mind to push as hard as possible to get the person to try and save themselves instead? Wouldn’t that fit better with a universe with nothing else but this life?
I agree with you, J. H.. It is hard to get people to understand that whether or not there is literal truth to any of the religious writings around the world, there still can be a God who designed and made this whole universe, and all of the laws of physics. It doesn’t have to match up with the literal teachings of any religion.
This is a great resource on Near Death Experiences. Of course the evidence is anecdotal and, as FE points out, plenty of people nearly die and experience nothing, but some of the accounts are very moving (some of them are quite bonkers, of course) and there are some startling commonalities:
https://www.nderf.org/NDERF/NDE_Archives/archives_main.htm
Kerry Packer, once Australia’s richest man, suffered a heart attack in 1990 … to the other side and let me tell you, son, there’s f–king nothing there…
https://www.techly.com.au/2016/02/11/people-who-have-had-near-death-experiences-explain-what-dying-really-feels-like/
Jupiviv, why do you feel confident enough of your own views to be able to make such sweeping claims regarding other people harboring delusions? A delusion is a belief that is held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. What superior evidence do you have, for instance, that Gail’s ideas about God or Eddies about the spent fuel ponds are invalid?
Also, how can you assert that the ancients understood this or that? Obviously some ancients understood some things and other ancients understood other things. But to make a blanket statement that all “the ancients understood” any one thing is an extraordinary claim.
Finally, what makes you think that you personally have a handle on reality? How do you know that your most firmly held beliefs about reality are not delusions?
I don’t have a particular axe to grind and I’m not claiming my reality trumps other people’s delusions. I’m just wondering if you could provide some backup for your claims, which are to me at least far from self-evident.
Ah yes, the resident ‘objectivist’. I won’t bother directly addressing the obvious poisoning the well/JAQing off crap. For the record though, thinking/believing that someone harbours one particular delusion is not the same as thinking they are completely deluded in every respect.
Everyone has windows that are closed … the goal should be to try to find out which windows are closed … and open them
Most people do not operate with that goal in mind… they are happy to live without the breeze of enlightenment …. and they get downright gnarly when someone tries to open one of their windows.
Jupiviv, I dunno if I was being objective or subjective, but irrespective of that, in making a fault of “objectivity”, you were being deflective and using invective in an attempt to cloud the perspective of the collective.
To wit, you got caught out making accusations that certain people were harboring delusions that you either realize you can’t prove or won’t try to prove, and rather than own up and look half-way decent, or address directly what was wrong with the catch and look devastatingly clever, you took the a-hole’s way out with a truly puerile response I won’t bother directly addressing at the moment, apart from observing that, for the record, thinking/believing that other people harbor are harboring particular delusions when they aren’t can itself be a form of delusion.
Getting back to your original post, what is your rationale for the “Belief in God is just one form of delusion”? It may be obviously the case to you but only if you’ve pigged out on the Squarkings of Dawkins and the Bitchings of Hitchens and consequently become convinced of the non-existence of God, and since that belief is unsubstantiated by a single fact—not even the Bible claims it!!—then if you want to be logically consistent, the atheist stance must also be delusional, mustn’t it?
As for FE’s delusions, it isn’t nearly enough for you to just declare they exist. You have to identify them and, if needs be, explain why they are delusions. Otherwise you are the public schoolboy whose teachers referred to as Master Bates and you are not playing fair. As to why you are not playing fair, we can only conjecture, but as Oscar said….
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTXrUc4fkxEZtY5jmDlBVInfMYmsoopb5u1KnVPffqxdnPJfpZ8
Toys R Us hires law firm as it explores possible bankruptcy filing
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/06/toys-r-us-weighs-possible-bankruptcy-filing.html
Union: Kellogg job cuts are ‘devastating news’
http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/story/news/2017/09/01/union-kellogg-job-cuts-devastating-news/625401001/?cookies=&from=global
Lilly to lay off 8 percent of employees in bid to cut costs
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-lilly-layoffs/lilly-to-lay-off-8-percent-of-employees-in-bid-to-cut-costs-idUSKCN1BI1UA?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+reuters/topNews+(News+/+US+/+Top+News)
Nokia says could cut 597 jobs in France by end-2019
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nokia-france-jobs/nokia-says-could-cut-597-jobs-in-france-by-end-2019-idUSKCN1BH2LZ?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+reuters/technologyNews+(Reuters+Technology+News)
Job growth is usually a “lagging” rather than “leading” indicator of recession.
In any calculation, these cuts will go against additions elsewhere in the system, such as jobs with Uber and Lyft. In the US, there still seem to be quite a few of the low-paying, part-time, temporary jobs around.
As long as people can cobble their lives together by adding up all the part time, low paying jobs they can endure, they will procreate more people to do the same and so on. This is an example of how things change and people change to meet those needs. People use to mostly have one job 40 hours a week. Now that’s different but it doesn’t stop them. I will never be surprised by the flexibility of people to do whatever life requires of them to continue to contort to whatever challenge presents itself next. That’s what should make it so fascinating when things continue to force people to make what seems like unreasonable adjustments. E.g. remember the final scenes of the Titanic sinking (the one with DiCaprio) when several of those people held on to the stern railing, then climbed on top of it to get a final few moments prior to plunging into extremely cold water? People are amazing at contorting, adjusting, rearranging to meet those challenges. Of course freezing water and other complications can conclude the ability to contort.
Here comes Leo… stepping off a private jet
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/04/17/21/27AD946600000578-3044142-image-a-24_1429301974046.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hntojuBOgo0/SDTdYzlnl4I/AAAAAAAACro/nmSQ30wxb-I/s400/AlGoreJet.jpg
Huge earthquake hits southern Mexico
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/earthqauke-today-latest-mexico-magnitude-8-mexico-city-a7935496.html
Of course caused by Kliimit Changge
Making a fool of yourself again…
I know that actuaries have noticed an upturn in the number of large earthquakes in the world. This is a link to an article about the subject.
https://www.sott.net/article/281068-Earthquake-frequency-increasing-Rate-of-strong-quakes-doubles-in-2014
This author in turn links to a book from 2014 called, Earth Changes and the Human Cosmic Connection: The Secret History of the World – Book 3.
The book summary says:
“Jet Stream meanderings, Gulf Stream slow-downs, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, meteor fireballs, tornadoes, deluges, sinkholes, and noctilucent clouds have been on the rise since the turn of the century. Have proponents of man-made global warming been proven correct, or is something else, something much bigger, happening on our planet? While mainstream science depicts these Earth changes as unrelated, Pierre Lescaudron applies findings from the Electric Universe paradigm and plasma physics to suggest that they might in fact be intimately related, and stem from a single common cause: the close approach of our Sun’s ‘twin’ and an accompanying cometary swarm. Citing historical records, the author reveals a strong correlation between periods of authoritarian oppression with catastrophic and cosmically-induced natural disasters. Referencing metaphysical research and information theory, Earth Changes and the Human Cosmic Connection is a ground-breaking attempt to re-connect modern science with ancient understanding that the human mind and states of collective human experience can influence cosmic and earthly phenomena.”
The reviews of the book are amazingly favorable. 63 reviews with an average rating of 4.7 stars out of 5.0.
This is an excerpt from the book quoted on the webpage about volcanic eruptions:
There are so many theories of reality, who can say what is true? The above certainly minimizes the relevance of social behavior, and who’s to say that social behavior isn’t a major cause of our troubles? If there are larger, obscure cosmic forces at play behind our reality, we still might have some ability to modify our collective behavior. Why that shouldn’t matter to the cosmos beats me.
Of course, I might be totally wrong here, but it seems unlikely that the Sun’s “twin” could sneak up on us unnoticed by the world’s astronomers. Even a “brown dwarf” would be sending out radiation that IR instruments could pick up, and the “twin” would also be exerting a gravitational effect that would measurably alter the orbits of the planets. So we should have heard about that by now, unless there is a vast conspiracy on the part of the Powers to keep mum on the subject, which of course is not beyond the bounds of possibility but is again, about as unlikely in my opinion as the notion that the Powers killed Mike Ruppert and are out to get Guy McPherson.
It does seem pretty unlikely, I’ll agree.
In terms of what we know …. and what the PTB know …. one has to wonder what we are not being told.
If a massive asteroid were headed for the planet — with impact 5 years away —- we would definitely NOT be told of this.
For obvious reasons.
Likewise — take something like autism — which has spiked big time in recent years. If the cause is say pesticides…. we will not be told. Because there is nothing we can do about it. We use pesticides or we starve.
Now consider gerffffal werrrmmming….. this is also something we can do NOTHING about. We either burn more coal and oil — or we die. It is as simple as that
So then why are we being told about this imminent danger day after day after day? What is the purpose?
Of course the purpose is to deflect — but deflecting is not enough —- we have to offer solutions….
See solar wind EVs…..
I recall the Jehovah’s Witnesses who used to knock on my door in Sussex being adamant that an increase in earthquakes was a sign of looming Arnageddon. Perhaps they were on to something.
It wasn’t the faith for me though – they believe that only 144,000 good Christians, ie JW’s, will be saved. There are over 8 million JW’s currently and, I assume, millions of dead ones. I didn’t like those odds. And they don’t let you have oral s.ex even if you’re married, so there’s that, too.
How would they know if you have oral sex?
Lol, Jesse James – *G.od* would know. And good luck being one of the 144k with a celestial party-invite if you’re up to those shenanigans in the boudoir.
i thought Arnageddon was what happened when Terminator walked into a bar and asked for your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle.
i never knew about the last bit—my jw uncle never mentioned that
The twin idea only distracts from the central thesis that the sun’s output, and our current and ever changing geomagnetic environment that the earth over through in space ….affects our weather. It does, The sun controls the earths weather.
ropical cyclones[edit]
Most tropical cyclones form on the side of the subtropical ridge closer to the equator, then move poleward past the ridge axis before recurving into the main belt of the Westerlies.[69] Areas west of Japan and Korea tend to experience much fewer September–November tropical cyclone impacts during El Niño and neutral years. During El Niño years, the break in the subtropical ridge tends to lie near 130°E, which would favor the Japanese archipelago.[70]
Within the Atlantic Ocean vertical wind shear is increased, which inhibits tropical cyclone genesis and intensification, by causing the westerly winds in the atmosphere to be stronger.[71] The atmosphere over the Atlantic Ocean can also be drier and more stable during El Niño events, which can also inhibit tropical cyclone genesis and intensification.[71] Within the Eastern Pacific basin: El Niño events contribute to decreased easterly vertical wind shear and favours above-normal hurricane activity.[72]
However, the impacts of the ENSO state in this region can vary and are strongly influenced by background climate patterns.[72] The Western Pacific basin experiences a change in the location of where tropical cyclones form during El Niño events, without a major change in how many develop each year.[71] As a result of this change Micronesia is more likely to be affected by several tropical cyclones, while China has a decreased risk of being affected by several tropical cyclones.[citation needed] A change in the location of where tropical cyclones form also occurs within the Southern Pacific Ocean between 135°E and 120°W, with tropical cyclones more likely to occur within the Southern Pacific basin than the Australian region.[10][71] As a result of this change tropical cyclones are 50% less likely to make landfall on Queensland, while the risk of a tropical cyclone is elevated for island nations like Niue, French Polynesia, Tonga, Tuvalu and the Cook Islands.[10][73][74]
Remote influence on tropical Atlantic Ocean[edit]
A study of climate records has shown that El Niño events in the equatorial Pacific are generally associated with a warm tropical North Atlantic in the following spring and summer.[75] About half of El Niño events persist sufficiently into the spring months for the Western Hemisphere Warm Pool to become unusually large in summer.[76] Occasionally, El Niño’s effect on the Atlantic Walker circulation over South America strengthens the easterly trade winds in the western equatorial Atlantic region. As a result, an unusual cooling may occur in the eastern equatorial Atlantic in spring and summer following El Niño peaks in winter.[77] Cases of El Niño-type events in both oceans simultaneously have been linked to severe famines related to the extended failure of monsoon rains.[22]
Antarctica[edit]
Many ENSO linkages exist in the high southern latitudes around Antarctica.[78] Specifically, El Niño conditions result in high-pressure anomalies over the Amundsen and Bellingshausen Seas, causing reduced sea ice and increased poleward heat fluxes in these sectors, as well as the Ross Sea. The Weddell Sea, conversely, tends to become colder with more sea ice during El Niño. The exact opposite heating and atmospheric pressure anomalies occur during La Niña.[79] This pattern of variability is known as the Antarctic dipole mode, although the Antarctic response to ENSO forcing is not ubiquitous.[79]
Regional impacts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Ni%C3%B1o#Effects_on_the_glo bal_cli mate
Next question, does barycenterism affect the sun’s ouptut?
https://youtu.be/1iSR3Yw6FXo
Good point! The fact that the entire solar system rotates around the common center of mass of the Solar System may explain the 11 year sun spot cycle. Interesting!
We have an awfully lot of overly-simple models around, and we overly trust in them.
Basic predictions of increased water weight of oceans as we melt ice will add enouch weight to the earths crust to increase eathquake rates. Pretty basic physics made this connectiin some time ago.
I am not clear on this — how does the water from the melted ice put more pressure on the earth’s crust?
Was the ice that melted levitated in mid air and not putting pressure on the crust?
And the water dripped down out of mid air into the ocean creating more pressure?
Don’t forget about the broken window fallacy. This Hurricane will not help the economy
Anything that can add a whole lot of debt to the economy helps raise the demand for commodities, and thus the price of commodities. (It helps offset the decreasing trend we have been seeing.) It also helps raise the demand for labor, and thus wages.
GDP is not a measure of how much “farther ahead” the system is. It is a measure of “goods and services produced in a year.” There is no offset for (a) increase in debt to necessary to create those goods or (b) decrease in built infrastructure, due to normal wear and tear, obsolescence, man-made wars, or forces of nature.
The greatest opportunity for rebuilding has come after wars. Hurricanes are other opportunities for rebuilding. The problem, of course, comes when the world economy is getting poorer and poorer, instead of richer and richer. Even with all of this stimulus, things start going wrong. For example, the government cannot add enough debt, to actually allow the rebuilding to occur. And individual homeowners cannot add enough debt either. Insurance companies have been smart enough to mostly sidestep the problem, by staying away from flood coverage, selling insurance only through small subsidiaries in Florida (which can go bankrupt, if necessary), and through deductibles based on the size of the hurricane. It is possible that the rebuilding won’t really all take place. This could be a major issue.
The poor (and they are increasing in numbers) will not “recover” from these storms without outside help from some group or government. The poorest neighborhoods of my hometown were swept away by the Colorado river. It was swift water and washed everything these poor folks had away cars and trailer houses. The last time the river was that high more than 100 years ago. None had insurance. Very depressing situation.
“The last time the river was that high more than 100 years ago”
Wonder what Al Gore would have to say about that
The Broken Window fallacy applies to war. But does it apply to terrorism?
After 9/11, The u.s. government added at least a whole new department that requires regular funding and is not financed with tax revenue. I assume a certain amount of it is funded with debt. The department the U.S. government added was the Department of Homeland security. Its activities mainly involve preventing terrorism. Its activities, along with other government departments activities, related to fighting terror must have had a positive effect on the GDP of the U.S. since it’s clear that terror preventing activities are not not being financed with debt instead of tax revenue.
Is terrorism good for the economy if it stimulates demand for more government services?
nope
government services are dependent on taxation—ie you and me.
governments do not actually have any money
so spending to defeat terrorism drains the fundamental energy resource of the nation itself, because we live in an energy economy, not a money economy.
so if energy is drained out faster than it comes in, it eventually bankrupts the country itself—which is exactly what is going to happen anyway. whether terrorism is the big drain, or healthcare or whatever.
this fits my universal law of nations:
https://medium.com/@End_of_More/universal-law-16d41003fe2
the end result is the same in the end.
WW2 was fought to ‘defeat terrorism” the USA won because the other side ran out of fuel first. We have now reached the stage where the USA is about to run out of fuel. The ”enemies at the gate” are fully aware of this.
I read somewhere recently that the USA has enough ammunition to wage a conventional war, even against say N Korea, for about 2 weeks. So you can see where the danger of nukes comes in.
It’s almost as if the “enemies at the gate” can sense that the U.S. and the rest of the First World is getting weaker on a subconscious level. They think the best of days are yet to come. They don’t realize that they are late to the party and that the pie slices are getting thinner and thinner.
————————-
“government services are dependent on taxation—ie you and me”
You still have yet to prove that The War on Terror is being financed mainly with tax revenue. There have been no new taxes, aside the hidden ones that come from higher real estate values. How can the u.s. government have increased its spending without raising taxes or going into debt?
of course they can
just like the barbarians at the gates of rome—it’s a form of mind-awareness on a global level.
sorry RBP—meant to continue
nations only have energy revenue—ie the taxation collected on energy exchange between people.
(investments accrue value only on anticipated increases in values/returns.)
governments borrow money on the collateral of future tax revenues, and they can only come from energy exchange.
there really is no other source of revenue.
—————-
in another comment you make the point about:
/////How long do people here think it will be before we see whether these efforts at large scale automation that is often referred to as artificial intelligence are successful?///////
That runs into the same problem.
No form of intelligence can create energy—only improve efficiency a little, on a basis of diminishing returns of course.
Automation creates wealth only for the decreasing number of .
machine owners. Everyone else has to go into debt to maintain their diminishing living standards as automation removes hands on employment.
that progression leads to a minority superwealthy elite, convinced of their rightful place in the world, and starving masses.
your history books are clear about what happens after that.
A fuel ship from Mississippi heading to the Port of Tampa has been given a military escort, with about 300,000 barrels of fuel to be unloaded in Tampa to resupply gas stations. State police will escort fuel trucks heading to gas stations on evacuation routes.
http://www.flgov.com/2017/09/07/gov-scott-issues-updates-on-hurricane-irma-preparedness-5/
What do they think people are going to do? Stop the fuel trucks and force the driver to use a 6″ diameter hose to fill up their vehicles via their 2″ diameter fuel opening? Don’t light a match if they do.
It will change here in NZ soon. We are about to have an election and there will probably be a change of Govt. There has been much chatter and excitement in the media (resembles a schoolyard huddle leading up to the school ball) and some quite overt references to a ‘changing of the guard’.
The change being referred to is the replacement of the boomers with some new enlightened ones. These new leaders come heavily armed. With their shiny new ideas, these textbook experts are going to pilot us to a green-tech, EV, zero-emissions nir.vana, where all and every ge.nder/r.ace/reli..gi.on/species will live in carefully planned car-less vegan harmony.
Can’t do any worse than we already have I guess, and will be an extraordinary show!!
I am starting a new party in NZ … anti-Green….
My logo:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/53458831e4b0425649a1ec63/t/5383d23fe4b09192d2a854c7/1401147967685/more_more_more_main_a2.jpg
Ha good luck and watch out.
Politics is becoming more and more faith-based; the labour party changed leaders and a few minor policies and all of a sudden a whole pack of new followers have shown up! They all want to believe that change is on its way. To ‘not believe’ is to be requiring of re-education.
Yep, its another ‘hope-changey’ campaign, this time in NZ
Try this:
(had to edit and re-post…maybe it will pass!)
“I also want to see kids get involved in the fight against climax range, so we will establish a Youth Climax Range Challenge. Children from Year 7 on will be able to take part in projects to tackle em.issi.ons in their communities. Each year, I’ll invite the young people with the best ideas to come to parliament to their ideas to tackle climax range.’
http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/89738/labour-says-will-legislate-target-nit-zero-em….-2050-vs-1990-levels-says#comment-951798
Ahh.. the youth, such malleable minds, as many previous des.pots have realised.
Youth groups give me the shivers – implanting ideology when the brain is unformed and the individual has no experience of real life.
It is not education.
The Left never see that this is no different to Hit – ler Youth.
“– implanting ideology when the brain is unformed and the individual has no experience of real life.”
All people who get wrapped up in an ideology are like this.
You’ve stated the fatal flaw in their beliefs: the ideology is replacing life experiences.
Often, they have a traumatic life experience and then retreat into an ideology that allows them to make large generalizations based on limited experiences.
This is quite similar to the stereotype of the book smart person, who’s brimming with theories,and has “no common sense” or no ability to apply his/her knowledge in an occupation, a.k.a. “in the real world”.
I suppose that at times being psychologically inflexible and “taking no prisoners” can give a group or an individual an advantage it’s not advantageous if it doesn’t lead to a victory of some sort.
Hook em young… and you’ll own them forever… we can see evidence of that on FW on a regular basis….
Klimate Change Kultists will not be deterred.
kindly stop pulling the rug from under my publishing empire—just when i had Rupert Murdoch worried
Good luck! Some places have already tried this approach to some extent. California and quite a bit of Europe come to mind.
Sunday 8am!
https://imgur.com/a/Ibjn4
I’m going to be torn between watching hurricane footage and opening day NFL Ticket (football) on Direct TV. Maybe I’ll use the split screen feature.
too bad the Miami Dolphins had their Sunday home game postponed.
that would have been a once in a lifetime game.
I would have predicted it to be a “blowout” victory 😉
Millennial households are poorer than any other generation: Study
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2017/09/07/millennial-households-are-poorer-than-any-other-generation-study.html
Easy to believe this. Young people can only afford to live with their parents, or live very frugally elsewhere. In too many cases, jobs are part-time or temporary. Expensive college education isn’t even used.
Lego to cut 1,400 jobs and ‘reset company’ after sales drop
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-lego-job-cuts-sales-drop-20170905-story.html
The consumer … is not consuming … enough
Or more precisely demography and gadget trends intervened, fewer children out there and mostly playing with flat screens instead, not with Lego bricks anymore..
It’s also sign of cultural-social and economic degradation. Lego has been known for using quality tactile plastics, you certainly won’t get the same with cheapo Chinese kiddy tablet and such.
Zombification of nascent generations in progress.
+++++++++++
Even in a disaster no one wants the vegan food
https://imgur.com/a/en6kS
classic!
vegan food or starvation?
tough choice!
Good pic David in a kazillion-trillion years. That says a lot about people’s diet. Not even willing to pick up vegan cheese.
Correction – good pic CH.
“Even in a disaster no one wants the vegan food”
Humans, a very dumb creature …
Weren’t the Greenland Norse meant to have died because they refused to adapt to a suitable local diet?
That pic was a good laugh.
I’m vegetarian and tried seitan once and hated it.
Thats not ‘vegan food’ – that are highly processed industrial ‘food’-abominations. Some kind of chemical mockery of cheese and meat… aka soylent-whatever…. or when all natural things are gone…
DONALD TRUMP ‘PEE TAPE’ EXISTS, MULTIPLE WITNESSES BACK SHOCKING STORY IN DOSSIER, BOMBSHELL REPORT CLAIMS
https://www.inquisitr.com/4476398/donald-trump-pee-tape-dossier/amp/
FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER EXISTS, says multiple witnesses!
bombshell ‘FSM TAPE’ will be released tomorrow!
all people everywhere will panic!
The Collapse will follow, BAU will end!
remember where you heard it first, here!!!!!!!
Amusing follow up.. http://euanmearns.com/rising-seas-swamp-scotland/
Yeah, but Scotland is not Bangladesh.
Yeah well then why do they have to keep making up these lies…. if this is a real problem?
Lie after lie after lie….
Oh look – I was driving over the Haast pass and it was snowing yesterday
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qHY12rr91Sc/hqdefault.jpg
Let me pay a ‘scientist’ to research this and come up with findings that proves the planet is cooling.
Anyone – anyone?
https://previews.123rf.com/images/alexkalina/alexkalina0910/alexkalina091000029/5686371-lot-of-money-in-a-suitcase-isolated-on-white-Stock-Photo-full.jpg
Annual sea-level rise is currently about 3.5mm and increasing but sea-level is not uniform around the world just as warming is not uniform.
Yep – some parts of the planet are cooling — others w arming…. some places even have snow….
Next boring irrelevant pointless topic please!
Lol, FE – you’re the one who keeps bringing it up! You’re really turning into the Basil Fawlty of OFW, you know.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jcEws7il4EY/hqdefault.jpg
Nah – the verdict is in.
Gail and those of us who are not MORE ons…. win.
It is others who remain blind who continue to raise the topic.
As far as I am concerned all I smell is napalm in the morning.
And it smells like …. victory
(a) Oil exports are often essential to the countries where they are extracted because of the tax revenue and jobs that they produce. The actual cost of extraction may be quite low, making extraction feasible, even at very low prices. Because of the need for tax revenue and jobs, governments will often encourage production regardless of price, so that the country can maintain its place in the world export market until prices again rise.
Even worse than this… many of these countries become entirely dependent on oil exports …. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse
Right!