How should electricity from wind turbines and solar panels be evaluated? Should it be evaluated as if these devices are stand-alone devices? Or do these devices provide electricity that is of such low quality, because of its intermittency and other factors, that we should recognize the need for supporting services associated with actually putting the electricity on the grid? This question comes up in many types of evaluations, including Levelized Cost of Energy (LCOE), Energy Return on Energy Invested (EROI), Life Cycle Analysis (LCA), and Energy Payback Period (EPP).
I recently gave a talk called The Problem of Properly Evaluating Intermittent Renewable Resources (PDF) at a BioPhysical Economics Conference in Montana. As many of you know, this is the group that is concerned about Energy Returned on Energy Invested (EROI). As you might guess, my conclusion is that the current methodology is quite misleading. Wind and solar are not really stand-alone devices when it comes to providing the kind of electricity that is needed by the grid. Grid operators, utilities, and backup electricity providers must provide hidden subsidies to make the system really work.
This problem is currently not being recognized by any of the groups evaluating wind and solar, using techniques such as LCOE, EROI, LCA, and EPP. As a result, published results suggest that wind and solar are much more beneficial than they really are. The distortion affects both pricing and the amount of supposed CO2 savings.
One of the questions that came up at the conference was, “Is this distortion actually important when only a small amount of intermittent electricity is added to the grid?” For that reason, I have included discussion of this issue as well. My conclusion is that the problem of intermittency and the pricing distortions it causes is important, even at low grid penetrations. There may be some cases where intermittent renewables are helpful additions without buffering (especially when the current fuel is oil, and wind or solar can help reduce fuel usage), but there are likely to be many other instances where the costs involved greatly exceed the benefits gained. We need to be doing much more thoughtful analyses of costs and benefits in particular situations to understand exactly where intermittent resources might be helpful.
A big part of our problem is that we are dealing with variables that are “not independent.” If we add subsidized wind and solar, that act, by itself, changes the needed pricing for all of the other types of electricity. The price per kWh of supporting types of electricity needs to rise, because their EROIs fall as they are used in a less efficient manner. This same problem affects all of the other pricing approaches as well, including LCOE. Thus, our current pricing approaches make intermittent wind and solar look much more beneficial than they really are.
A clear workaround for this non-independence problem is to look primarily at the cost (in terms of EROI or LCOE) in which wind and solar are part of overall “packages” that produce grid-quality electricity, at the locations where they are needed. If we can find solutions on this basis, there would seem to be much more of a chance that wind and solar could be ramped up to a significant share of total electricity. The “problem” is that there is a lower bound on an acceptable EROI (probably 10:1, but possibly as low as 3:1 based on the work of Charles Hall). This is somewhat equivalent to an upper bound on the affordable cost of electricity using LCOE.
This means that if we really expect to scale wind and solar, we probably need to be creating packages of grid-quality electricity (wind or solar, supplemented by various devices to create grid quality electricity) at an acceptably high EROI. This is very similar to a requirement that wind or solar energy, including all of the necessary adjustments to bring them to grid quality, be available at a suitably low dollar cost–probably not too different from today’s wholesale cost of electricity. EROI theory would strongly suggest that energy costs for an economy cannot rise dramatically, without a huge problem for the economy. Hiding rising energy costs with government subsidies cannot fix this problem.
Distortions Become Material Very Early
If we look at recently published information about how much intermittent electricity is being added to the electric grid, the amounts are surprisingly small. Overall, worldwide, the amount of electricity generated by a combination of wind and solar (nearly all of it intermittent) was 5.2% in 2016. On an area by area basis, the percentages of wind and solar are as shown in Figure 1.
Figure 1. Wind and solar as a share of 2016 electricity generation, based on BP Statistical Review of World Energy 2017. World total is not shown, but is very close to the percentage shown for China.
There are two reasons why these percentages are lower than a person might expect. One reason is that the figures usually quoted are the amounts of “generating capacity” added by wind and solar, and these are nearly always higher than the amount of actual electricity supply added, because wind and solar “capacity” tend to be lightly used.
The other reason that the percentages on Figure 1 are lower than we might expect is because the places that have unusually high concentrations of wind and solar generation (examples: Germany, Denmark, and California) tend to depend on a combination of (a) generous subsidy programs, (b) the availability of inexpensive balancing power from elsewhere and (c) the generosity of neighbors in taking unwanted electricity and adding it to their electric grids at low prices.
As greater amounts of intermittent electricity are added, the availability of inexpensive balancing capacity (for example, from hydroelectric from Norway and Sweden) quickly gets exhausted, and neighbors become more and more unhappy with the amounts of unwanted excess generation being dumped on their grids. Denmark has found that the dollar amount of subsidies needs to rise, year after year, if it is to continue its intermittent renewables program.
One of the major issues with adding intermittent renewables to the electric grid is that doing so distorts wholesale electricity pricing. Solar energy tends to cut mid-day peaks in electricity price, making it less economic for “peaking plants” (natural gas electricity plants that provide electricity only when prices are very high) to stay open. At times, prices may turn negative, if the total amount of wind and solar produced at a given time is greater than the overall amount of electricity required by customers. This happens because intermittent electricity is generally given priority on the grid, whether price signals indicate that it is needed or not. A combination of these problems tends to make backup generation unprofitable unless subsidies are provided. If peaking plants and other backup are still required, but need to operate fewer hours, subsidies must be provided so that the plants can afford to hire year-around staff, and pay their ongoing fixed expenses.
If we think of the new electricity demand as being “normal” demand, adjusted by the actual, fairly random, wind and solar generation, the new demand pattern ends up having many anomalies. One of the anomalies is that required prices become negative at times when wind and solar generation are high, but the grid has no need for them. This tends to happen first on weekends in the spring and fall, when electricity demand is low. As the share of intermittent electricity grows, the problem with negative prices becomes greater and greater.
The other major anomaly is the need for a lot of quick “ramp up” and “ramp down” capacity. One time this typically happens is at sunset, when demand is high (people cooking their dinners) but a large amount of solar electricity disappears because of the setting of the sun. For wind, rapid ramp ups and downs seem to be related to thunderstorms and other storm conditions. California and Australia are both adding big battery systems, built by Tesla, to help deal with rapid ramp-up and ramp-down problems.
There is a lot of work on “smart grids” being done, but this work does not address the particular problems brought on by adding wind and solar. In particular, smart grids do not move demand from summer and winter (when demand is normally high) to spring and fall (when demand is normally low). Smart grids and time of day pricing aren’t very good at fixing the rapid ramping problem, either, especially when these problems are weather related.
The one place where time of day pricing can perhaps be somewhat helpful is in lessening the rapid ramping problem of solar at sunset. One fix that is currently being tried is offering the highest wholesale electricity prices in the evening (6:00 pm to 9:00 pm), rather than earlier in the day. This approach encourages those adding new solar energy generation to add their panels facing west, rather than south, so as to better match demand. Doing this is less efficient from the point of view of the total electricity generated by the panels (and thus lowers EROIs of the solar panels), but helps prevent some of the rapid ramping problem at sunset. It also gets some of the generation moved from the middle of day to the evening, when it better matches “demand.”
In theory, the high prices from 6:00 pm to 9:00 pm might encourage consumers to move some of their electricity usage (cooking dinner, watching television, running air conditioning) until after 9:00 pm. But, as a practical matter, it is difficult to move very much of residential demand to the desired time slots based on price. In theory, demand could also be moved from summer and winter to spring and fall based on electricity price, but it is hard to think of changes that families could easily make that would allow this change to happen.
With the strange demand pattern that occurs when intermittent renewables are added, standard pricing approaches (based on marginal costs) tend to produce wholesale electricity prices that are too low for electricity produced by natural gas, coal, and nuclear providers. In fact, wholesale electricity rates for supporting providers tend to diverge further and further from what is needed, as more and more intermittent electricity is added. The dotted line on Figure 2 illustrates the falling wholesale electricity prices that have been occurring in Europe, even as retail residential electricity prices are rising.
Figure 2. European residential electricity prices have risen, even as wholesale electricity prices (dotted line) have fallen. Chart by Paul-Frederik Bach.
The marginal pricing scheme gives little guidance as to how much backup generation is really needed. It is therefore left up to governments and local electricity oversight groups to figure out how to compensate for the known pricing problem. Some provide subsidies to non-intermittent producers; others do not.
To complicate matters further, electricity consumption has been falling rapidly in countries whose economies are depressed. Adding wind and solar further reduces needed natural gas, coal, and nuclear generation. Some countries may let these producers collapse; others may subsidize them, as a jobs-creation program, whether this backup generation is needed or not.
Of course, if a single payer is responsible for both intermittent and other electricity programs, a combined rate can be set that is high enough for the costs of both intermittent electricity and backup generation, eliminating the pricing problem, from the point of view of electricity providers. The question then becomes, “Will the new higher electricity prices be affordable by consumers?”
The recently published IEA World Energy Investment Report 2017 provides information on a number of developing problems:
“Network investment remains robust for now, but worries have emerged in several regions about the prospect of a ‘utility death spiral’ as the long-term economic viability of grid investments diminishes. The still widespread regulatory practice of remunerating fixed network assets on the basis of a variable per kWh charge is poorly suited for a power system with a large amount of decentralised solar PV and storage capacity.”
The IEA investment report notes that in China, 10% of solar PV and 17% of wind generation were curtailed in 2016, even though previous problems with lack of transmission had been fixed. Figure 1 shows China’s electricity from wind and solar amounts to only 5.0% of its total electricity consumption in 2016.
Regarding India, the IEA report says, “More flexible conventional capacity, including gas-fired plants, better connections with hydro resources and investment in battery storage will be needed to support continued growth in solar power.” India’s intermittent electricity amounted to only 4.1% of total electricity supply in 2016.
In Europe, a spike in electricity prices to a 10-year high took place in January 2017, when both wind and solar output were low, and the temperature was unusually cold. And as previously mentioned, California and South Australia have found it necessary to add Tesla batteries to handle rapid ramp-ups and ramp-downs. Australia is also adding large amounts of transmission that would not have been needed, if coal generating plants had continued to provide services in South Australia.
None of the costs related to intermittency workarounds are currently being included in EROI analyses. They are generally not being included in analyses of other kinds, either, such as LCOE. In my opinion, the time has already arrived when analyses need to be performed on a much broader basis than in the past, so as to better capture the true cost of adding intermittent electricity.
Slide 1
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Slide 2
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Slide 3
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Slide 4
Of course, as we saw in the introduction, worldwide electricity supply is only about 5% wind and solar. The only parts of the world that were much above 5% in 2016 were Europe, which was at 11.3% in 2016 and the United States, which was at 6.6%.
There has been a lot of talk about electrical systems being operated entirely by renewables (such as hydroelectric, wind, solar, and burned biomass), but these do not exist in practice, as far as I know. Trying to replace total energy consumption, including oil and natural gas usage, would be an even bigger problem.
Slide 5
The amount of electricity required by consumers varies considerably over the course of a year. Electricity demand tends to be higher on weekdays than on weekends, when factories and schools are often closed. There is usually a “peak” in demand in winter, when it is unusually cold, and second peak in summer, when it is unusually hot. During the 24-hour day, demand tends to be lowest at night. During the year, the lowest demand typically comes on weekends in the spring and fall.
If intermittent electricity from W&S is given first priority on the electric grid, the resulting “net” demand is far more variable than the original demand pattern based on customer usage. This increasingly variable demand tends to become more and more difficult to handle, as the percentage of intermittent electricity added to the grid rises.
Slide 6
EROI is nearly always calculated at the level of the solar panel or wind turbine, together with a regular inverter and whatever equipment is used to hold the device in place. This calculation does not consider all of the costs in getting electricity to the right location, and up to grid quality. If we move clockwise around the diagram, we see some of the problems as the percentage of W&S increases.
One invention is smart inverters, which are used to bring the quality of the electrical output up closer to grid quality, apart from the intermittency problems. Germany has retrofitted solar PV with these, because of problems it encountered using only “regular” inverters. Upgrading to smart inverters would be a cost not generally included in EROI or LCOE calculations.
The next problem illustrated in Slide 6 is the fact that the pricing system does not work for any fuel, if wind and solar are given priority on the electric grid. The marginal cost approach that is usually used gives too low a wholesale price for every producer subject to this pricing scheme. The result is a pricing system that gives misleadingly low price signals. Regulators are generally aware of this issue, but don’t have a good way of fixing it. Capacity payments are used in some places as an attempted workaround, but it is not clear that such payments really solve the problem.
It is less obvious that in addition to giving too low pricing indications for electricity, the current marginal cost pricing approach indirectly gives artificially low price indications regarding the required prices for natural gas and coal as fuels. As a result of this and other forces acting in the same directions, we end up with a rather bizarre situation: (a) Natural gas and and coal prices tend to fall below their cost of production. (b) At the same time, nuclear electricity generating plants are being forced to close, because they cannot afford to compete with the artificially low price of electricity produced by the very low-priced natural gas and coal. The whole system tends to be pushed toward collapse by misleadingly low wholesale electricity prices.
Slide 6 also shows some of the problems that seem to start arising as more intermittent electricity is added. Once new long distance transmission lines are added, it changes the nature of the whole “game.” It becomes easier to rely on generation added by a neighbor; any generation that a country might add becomes more attractive to a neighbor. As long as there is plenty of electricity to go around, everything goes well. When there are shortages, then arguments begin to arise. Arguments such as these may destabilize the Eurozone.
One thing I did not mention in this chart is the increasing need to pay intermittent grid providers not to produce electricity when there is an oversupply of electricity. In the UK, the amount of these payments was over 1 million pounds a week in 2015. I mentioned previously that in China, 17% of wind generation and 10% of solar PV generation were being curtailed in 2016. EROI calculations do not consider this possibility; they assume that 100% of the electricity that is generated can, in fact, be used by the system.
Slide 7
The pricing system no longer works because W&S are added whenever they become available, in preference to other generation. In many ways, the pricing system is like our appetite for food. Usually, we eat when we are hungry, and the food we eat reduces our appetite. W&S are added to the system with total disregard for whether the system needs it or not, leaving the other electricity producers to try to fix up the mess, using the false pricing signals they get. The IEA’s 2017 Investment Report recommends that countries develop new pricing schemes that correct the problems, but it is not clear that this is actually possible without correcting the hidden subsidies.
Slide 8
Why add more electricity supply, if there is a chance that you can use the new supply added by your neighbor?
Slide 9
South Australia had two recent major outages–both partly related to adding large amounts of wind and solar to the electric grid, and the loss of its last two coal-fired electricity generation plants. The first big outage came during a weather event. The second big outage occurred when temperatures were very high during summer, and because of this, electricity demand was very high.
One planned workaround for supply shortages was natural gas. Unfortunately, South Australia doesn’t actually have a very good natural gas supply to operate its units generating electricity from natural gas. Thus, the available natural gas generators could not really respond as hoped, except at very high prices. Some changes are now being made, including a planned Tesla battery system. With the changes being made, there are reports of electricity rate increases of up to 120% for businesses in South Australia.
The irony of the situation is that Australia is a major natural gas exporter. Businesses expected that they could make more money selling the natural gas abroad as LNG than they could by providing natural gas to the citizens of South Australia. These exports are now being curbed, to try to help fix the South Australia natural gas problem.
These issues point out how interconnected all of the different types of electricity generation are, and how quickly a situation can become a local crisis, if regulators simply assume “market forces will provide a solution.”
Slide 10
An expert panel in Australia has recommended an approach similar to this. It simply becomes too difficult to operate a system with built-in subsidies.
Slide 11
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Slide 12
Timing makes a difference. The payments that are made for interest need to be made, directly or indirectly, with future goods and services that can only be made using energy products. Thus, they also require the use of energy products.
Slide 13
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Slide 14
There is a real difference between (a) looking at the actual operating experiences of an existing oil and gas or coal company, and (b) guessing what the future operating experience of a system operated by wind panels and solar panels might be. The tendency is to guess low, when it comes to envisioning what future problems may arise.
It is not just the wind turbines and solar panels that will need to be replaced over time; it is all of the supporting devices that need to be kept in good repair and replaced over time. Furthermore, the electric grid is dependent on oil for its upkeep. If oil becomes a problem, there is a real danger that the electric grid will become unusable, and with it, electricity that is generally distributed by the grid, including wind and solar.
Slide 15
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Slide 16
Economies and humans are both self-organized systems that depend on energy consumption for their existence. They have many other characteristics in common as well.
Slide 17
We know that with humans, we really need to examine how a new medicine or a change in diet works in practice. For one thing, medicines and diets aren’t necessarily used as planned. Unexpected long-term changes occur that we could not anticipate.
Slide 18
The same kinds of problems occur when wind and solar are added to a grid system. We really have to look at what is happening to see the full picture.
Slide 19
Anyone who has followed the news knows about medicine’s long history of announcements followed by retractions.
Slide 20
A fairly similar situation can be expected to happen with proposed energy solutions.
Slide 21
There is a whole package of costs and a whole range of direct and indirect outcomes to consider.
Slide 22
As far as I know, none of the attempts at producing a system that operates on 100% renewable energy have been a success. There has been some reductions in fossil fuel usage, but at a high cost.
Slide 23
A 2013 Weissabach et al. EROI analysis examines a situation with partial buffering of wind and solar (approximately 10 days worth of buffering). It leaves out several other costs of bringing wind and solar up to grid quality electricity, such as extra long distance transmission costs, and more significant buffering to allow transferring electricity produced in spring and fall to be saved for summer or winter. These authors calculated a partially buffered EROI of 4:1 for wind, and a partially buffered EROI range of 1.5:1 to 2.3:1 for solar PV.
Of course, more investigation, including looking at the full package of needed devices to provide non-intermittent electricity of grid quality, is really needed for particular situations. Improvements in technology would tend to raise EROI indications; adding more supplemental devices to bring electricity to grid quality would tend to reduce EROI indications.
If the cutoff for being able to maintain a modern society is 10:1, as mentioned earlier, then wind and solar PV would both seem to fall far below the required EROI cutoff, if they are to be used in quantity.
If, as Hall believes, an EROI as low as 3:1 might be useful, then there is a possibility that some wind energy would be helpful, especially if a particular wind location has a very high capacity factor (can generate electricity a large share of the time), and if pricing problems can be handled adequately. The EROI of solar PV would probably still be too low in most applications. In any event, we need to be examining situations more closely, instead of simply assuming that hidden subsidies can be counted on indefinitely.
UK new car sales fall 9.3% in July with diesel down 20%
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/94714/uk-new-car-sales-fall-93-in-july-with-diesel-down-20
Maxine Waters Says Trump’s A Nihilist: “He Believes In Nothing, He Cares About Nothing”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-07/maxine-waters-says-trumps-nihilist-he-believes-nothing-he-cares-about-nothing
And what’s wrong with that?
https://media2.giphy.com/media/Fjr6v88OPk7U4/giphy.gif
http://peakoil.com/publicpolicy/kunstler-just-wait-a-little-while
JHK with a good post.
Up until this paragraph:
The underlying issue is the scale of human activity in our time. It has exceeded its limits and we have to tune back a lot of what we do.
Anything organized at the giant scale is headed for failure, so it comes down to a choice between outright collapse or severe re-scaling, which you might think of as managed contraction. That goes for government programs, military adventures, corporate enterprise, education, transportation, health care, agriculture, urban design, basically everything. There is an unfortunate human inclination to not reform, revise, or re-scale familiar activities.
This is a ridiculous statement…. there can be no managed contraction … contraction = total collapse and extinction
Howard either does not understand this — or he is using this to sell books
The only contraction we can manage is in purchasing power.
Nothing seems to arrest the decline in the ability of the mass of people to afford stuff. Every day news stories from the MSM confirm this.
Western Rome didn’t ‘contract’ (except perhaps in the abandonment of the province of Britain): the higher levels were swept away, and it was reduced to the bedrock of a world of peasants, oxen and ploughs – basic primary production which had always been there.
Yep, the final decades of collapse, were quite bizarre, when some of the “invaders” who have lived for generations nearby the cultural sphere of the empire and now through some of the system’s final days, yearned for the benefits and complained, when additional waves of “completely unaware” tribes started to press on them too.. lolz
It’s not exactly the same, but it certainly rhymes, when you today see pictures of new African migrants destroying furiously property in France/Italy/Germany to be occasionally chased by more successful recent migrants (still enjoying the system) and or 2nd/3rd generations of previous migration waves, also sort of protecting it..
Worldof
Asian immigrants established in Britain often vote Conservative and against further immigration, above all Muslim (makes sense if they are Hindus!).
In London, the West Indians have been pushed aside by the Hindus, Nigerians and Turks when it comes to government jobs.
Fall of Rome v. 2.
It’s worth noting that the eastern half did, indeed, engage in managed collapse. While FE does make good points about probable pitfalls – life will go on for some.
Yes, Byzantium certainly adapted.
http://dflduluthexposed.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/a967_thumb11.jpg
“Internet” as distributed network of computers-servers providing information layer for the entire economy was conceptually invented by USSR scientists around ~1964, the new “keep it slow folks” politburo did not support the project much, delays, delays, finally did not put money into it. While the Americans even invited that guy on lecture tour. DARPA in the US was later tasked with it, proper budgeted, launched it off from his published papers. Obviously, the bulk of the detailed work and specific technologies were developed by US industries and the dividend kept on giving in later decades in software, hardware, and other IT services for example like electronic payment, hence another important leg of global petrodollar extension..
Similarly around the time of late 1960s early mid 1970s at the top of their state vertical formation, the French launched similar concept, but it was not as ambitious as the RU-US, it was more like closed node-server system architecture ala BBS, yet some commercial applications were put out for retail sector as well in 1980s, called Minitel, .. some older guys here might remember that thing.
http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-if-al-gore-invented-the-internet-i-invented-spell-check-dan-quayle-23-78-61.jpg
This one’s actually a myth within a myth. The first myth is that former vice president Al Gore invented the Internet. The second myth is that Al Gore ever claimed to have “invented” anything.
On March 9, 1999, CNN anchor Wolf Blitzer interviewed Al Gore as Gore was beginning his 2000 presidential campaign. Answering a question about what he would bring to the table, Gore replied:
“During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country’s economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.”
Even Gore’s most loyal defenders admit that if he never meant to take sole credit for the creation of the Internet, he phrased it awkwardly. It didn’t take long for critics to leap upon what appeared to be a gross overstatement, if not an outright lie.
Two days after the interview, journalist Declan McCullagh wrote a story for Wired News lambasting Gore for exaggerating his role in the Internet’s creation, and then followed up his story with an e-mail newsletter titled, “House Majority Leader Armey on Gore ‘inventing the Internet'”
The story exploded, and although Gore never uttered the words “invented the Internet,” that phrase would be repeated in nearly 5,000 news stories and countless late night talk show monologues during the campaign
Not difficult to see how that could be interpreted as taking credit for inventing the internet…
Steve Jobs did not actually invent the iphone — hundreds of engineers would have done that….
Yet he takes credit for it….
That said — Al’s invented G w…. well actually that was Don Draper and Eddie Bernays…. they also changed their phrase to cl ch when they saw that the planet was not heating up ….
That’s what Ad/PR men do — they invent….
Speaking of which….
Gore’s source of wealth:
Inheritance – rich father
Sale of Current TV – $70,000,000
Apple stocks – $45,000,000
Google stocks – $30 – 40 million
Everything you use your iPhone or “Google it” you add to his wealth.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-06/u-k-economy-takes-a-hit-as-consumer-spending-slumps-further
https://assets.bwbx.io/images/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/i132_DAiXf78/v1/800x-1.png
Governor Mark Carney warned that Brexit uncertainty is weighing on business and households.
Ha ha — you gotta love it!
BOE Deputy Governor Ben Broadbent said Friday that the “maximum rate of pain” for consumers will soon pass, though any improvement could be modest. The central bank also cut its forecast for wage growth last week.
Hmmmm… wage growth facing more cuts… yet consumers are going to consume more… how does that work Ben?
Here in Britain my email is inundated with special offers (20 to 60% off). High-end clothing and shoes, furniture, household goods, gardening stuff, construction tools and materials.
Quite literally I haven’t had to pay full price for anything recently, except for the very specialised tools and materials of my trade (I do, however, get a very good trade discount for bulk leather.)
If an online sale is on, I just wait until the end for the big discounts, and every sale seems to get extended with new deals.
There is a certain desperation in the air. I should hate to be flogging stuff to the public just now.
That’s exactly what is expected when deflation grabs hold…. everyone just waits for the sales… eventually retail gets gutted…. wholesalers get gutted… manufacturers get gutted…. commercial property gets gutted… and last but not least… the banks get gutted….
We are seeing a raft of really bad things happening including those very disturbing auto sale numbers….
Double digit annual declines in sales is a blood bath — particularly when you consider that interest rates are at record lows — and rebates are at record highs…. and to top it off — the consumer is drowning in debt….
I am not sure how the CBs stop this from circling the drain now.
There are no easy solutions to the overpopulation dilemma. New energy solutions and new techno-fixes generally make the situation worse. It looks like things will have to get worse before they can get better.
On the contrary. Things can always get worse…
http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/things_can_always_get_worse.jpg
That’s not so bad…
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/media/images/80578000/jpg/_80578755_kobane1.jpg
http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/secondary/A-starving-boy-431738.jpg
yes, there are no easy solutions.
the commies in China made a very hard decision to limit families to one child.
India didn’t. Too bad for India.
and not to single out India, but there and in other countries where the population is getting unsustainable, the migration to bordering countries will only make things worse.
countries with better food supplies will be invaded by food deprived masses.
invasions are happening now.
the endgame will likely be mass die-off.
ps: gee, such lighthearted posts tonight.
How China’s One-Child Policy Backfired Disastrously
The three-decade old rule was officially rescinded this week. But its toll will haunt China for years to come.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2015/10/151030-china-one-child-policy-mei-fong/
For the younger people out there, don’t take the doom and gloom too seriously. Where there is life there’s hope.
http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-every-silver-lining-has-a-cloud-mary-kay-ash-1-13-90.jpg
“nattering nabobs of negativism” – Safire/Spiro Agnew
Where there is delusion there is hope…
For those who still have hope that things will not end in starvation, rape, murder, disease and radiation poisoning….. best to avoid FW.
Pessimist: Things are so bad they can’t possibly get any worse.
Optimist: Sure they can.
lol
Maybe he had fire insurance but no flood insurance!
Fire is generally covered by insurance policies; flood is not.
Flood insurance is purchased separately. In the US, it is generally a government program.
Better, worse, what’s that for Mother N.?
https://collapseofindustrialcivilization.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/funny-nature-images-5-1.jpg
The society is so detailed from reality (due to FF) that there is nothing else to hope for. Historically, detachment from reality is one of the key cause of any collapse because they could not see/understand why it can happen.
Have a look at the YouTube video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe4cXPWPJWU
Do you expect those people to carry one the heavy duty task of continuing the existence of homo sapiens?
Calhoun in the rat experiment decades ago have already concluded that and we are now seeing how it plays out. The outcome is already known and it is not good at all.
http://io9.gizmodo.com/how-rats-turned-their-private-paradise-into-a-terrifyin-1687584457
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun#Mouse_experiments
“Do you expect those people to carry on the heavy duty task of continuing the existence of homo sapiens?”
no, not them.
each generation in western civilization seems to be getting softer.
I mean, when I was younger I grew a garden for a few years and it’s probably more outdoor work than most millennials or genXers or genYers would be willing to do.
and that garden provided me maybe only a few percent of my calories.
when western economies decline far enough, whether in slow grinding recessions or in one bigger collapse, the persons, the tough ones, willing and able to grow their own food will have a better chance at living and reproducing.
the softer or weaker ones, kind of like me now and like those “feminist booksellers” in the video, will just be part of the die-off.
Again, research the gulag, see who survived the longest, the working peasants or the aristocrats.
Gardens are a pain, they are hard work and while one poster to the old “Oil Drum” was castigated for using a 12Ga on a small rabbit or some such animal, after a bit of work on a garden the rational becomes obvious as well as a certain degree of satisfaction in the deed.
Dennis L.
In Auschwitz, where they laboured for IG Farben, the physical type which did best was short and stocky, and the people used to hard (and dangerous ) work had a great advantage. Think of all those 5 ft peasants and miners in Old Europe. I once met a survivor, the father of my former wife’s best friend, he was a tiny man.
It helped to be young, too – greater chance of recovery from illness and resistance to infections. And ruthless at stealing from others -the same in the Japanese work camps.
I noted from Primo Levi that many deaths in the work gangs came from the badly-fitting shoes: they rubbed, caused blisters, these became infected and then you were either killed by the Germans as being useless for work, or died directly and horribly from the infection. Pre-antibiotic life.
There is a badly-made but very informative series of interviews on Youtube, ‘Holocaust Survivors’, with very long conversations with the lucky few who came through the camps, including the personal domestic slave of Amon Goeth and his mistress.
One lady escaped a ‘selection’ by making the SS man laugh, so he spared her that day.
I’d like to see this experiment picked up by reality tv … with humans instead of rats used….
We are the stars of this reality TV. Read the last part of the experiment where the rats are feminized
It is incredible the torturous tasks people will voluntarily subject themselves to for their spot on reality TV. What is it about being on TV that overtakes a persons common sense?
Some years ago I saw a bit where the participants had to stick their heads into a vat of I think it was bugs and retrieve something … some of them were gagging and nearly vomiting…
I remember thinking … how far could we take this — what if you filled a bin with diarrhoea and challenged people to dive….
I bet you there would be people willing to do that.
Anything to be famous right?
In an age of instant celebrities, being anonymous is almost a disgrace, a blur. The pressure to get the fifteen minutes of fame that everybody feels entitled to must be immense, and all the more when people realize that to reach those 15 minutes of fame they do not even need to know how to sing, how to act in a movie or how to kill 15 people in a mall, they just need to be willing to display their stupidity and emptiness.
In the past, the great human dream was to reach the kingdom of heaven, now is to reach the kingdom of tv-reality. Alas, the law of diminishing returns also operates on the field of human dreams.
Delightful! My little sister has fallen into the LGBT cult, and it’s fused her brain – some of the video could be her speaking, or straight from her Twitter account. She makes lots of Youtube videos on ‘(Her)story’. ;(
Those people? Actors? I mean, people aren’t actually like that right? Maybe so.
Oh yes, Tim, my sister and her new friends! Obsessive, and so completely humourless, just as in Portlandia. Very aggressive in tone towards heterosexual women and men – all the signs of cult-thinking.
CTG – that is an outstanding video!
Resistance Radio – Guest: Alice Friedemann –
http://resistanceradioprn.podbean.com/e/resistance-radio-guest-alice-friedemann-080617/
Thanks. Clear-sighted woman, Alice.
Alice sounds terrified! Toward the end it almost sounds like she’s about to break down and start crying.
Alice must have kids… and grandkids….
Super cap energy storage cheaper and last 2700 years!
https://youtu.be/3K8JIC-ov_Y
And it just pops out of thin air no doubt. Pity it isn’t the fuel tank of 40 years ago.
The next step for a company like that is to hire a PR agency — who will then approach the likes of Bloomberg – FT Reuters etc….
And pay them large sums — to write advertorial exclaiming how this is the breakthrough that the world has been looking for….
That will get the attention of venture capital — who don’t care if the product makes sense — or ever makes money — they just need to see a commitment to endless PR — then they will fund the project.
See Tesla.
I am re-watching Mad Men …. Season 2 Episode 7 23:50 mark….
The head of his firm calls him into his office — it is obvious Don is being groomed for a partnership and bigger things … the boss says:
‘There are few people who get to decide what will happen in our world. You have been invited to join them. Pull back the curtain and take your seat”
No explanation is given beyond that ….
Liberal Kid growing up with Conservative Parents (Starter Pack)
http://imgur.com/a/8Yh7m
People love to generate big families, then fight over territory within the house, over things, dominance within the group, who sits where, chores, etc. What a species as there is never a dull moment.
Oops everything isn’t normal.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-07/forget-fomo-90-stocks-have-never-been-more-expensive
I suppose when nothing else is giving a reasonable yield, the hope for capital gains drives individuals and pensions to buy stocks, however high-priced.
Trumponomics is behind the rise and fall of the dollar?
Broken election promises:
No Obamacare repeal and replace, no tax cuts, no infrastructure project, no Mexican wall…
How about a cute garden fence if the Mexicans chip in? No.
https://www.fxstreet.com/analysis/the-dollar-is-seriously-oversold-and-should-correct-201708021252
No its his nationalist populace prehistoric that is scaring away investors. Just like in the UK with the sterling!
It’s his nationalist big government socialist policies like canceling the TPP that are scaring away investors. Just like it did in the UK with the sterling!
Global fund managers are saying that it’s the Fed that spooks them.
The markets are entirely driven by central banks liquidity since the financial crisis. When the Fed starts to reduce its balance sheet aggressively next year and drain the liquidity from the market, then the bond market bubble implodes.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-25/next-bear-market-for-stocks-credit-hits-in-2018-survey-shows
“When the Fed starts to reduce its balance sheet aggressively next year…”
or is it a bluff?
any talk of raising interest rates much above zero is also a bluff.
balance sheet will expand, deficits will grow, interest rates will stay near zero.
this is the new normal from now to collapse.
Maybe. I was thinking: Who the hel l wants to buy that toxic waste and at what price?
Well said David! I agree with that forecast! And the collapse will be the massive amounts of oil shortages hitting the world economy! Soon!! It will be utter chaos and panic and hysteria! Sheep will go insane!
They can’t reduce their balance sheet without collapsing the whole thing, as far as I can see.
It’s either a bluff — or a controlled detonation ….
I doubt it is the latter — as I cannot imagine what purpose that would serve.
Some might say it would be an excuse to roll out martial law — but I doubt that — martial law would not help one bit — it would just trigger the collapse of BAU
The Saudi’s are going to remove their peg after their IPO sale. Then the dollar will collapse!
https://www.perchingtree.com/saudi-aramco-ipo-key-risks-loom-for-investors/
The dollar will be fine.
The House of Saud would be a cakewalk for Don Draper … should they upset the commanders…
Off the top of my head:
whor..emasters
coke heads
then there’s that market where they chop heads every week
and who can forget how the House of Saud was behind 911
The list is endless….
That’s the thing with the commanders — as Saddam found out — one day they are your friend — then the next they are stabbing you in the back
The KSA will not go against the wishes of its masters….
Canadians were involved in 9/11 —
Video on youtube —
Same people who are burning down BC?
I didn’t know that it was so complicated to keep the dollar peg. Looks like there is just too much stress to the Saudi finances to maintain it… but if they drop the peg then it would lead to social and political stress. Tough choice. But at some point they will just reach a breaking point.
It is not in the best interest of Saudi Arabia to break the peg now. They will be forced to break it. There are two pretty good explanations online.
Peg Breakonomics – https://www.perchingtree.com/saudi-riyal-dollar-peg-abandon-dilemma/
Tough Choices – Peg or Banking Crisis – http://bawerk.net/2016/06/04/tough-choices-peg-or-banking-crisis/
the US economy is so much larger than the SA economy.
if SA makes a wrong move, the US could remove all of its support (visible and covert) for the Saud family, and then who collapses?
remember, the US has a growing list of countries that it has recently “helped” with their declines: Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine.
I just love what they have done with Libya and they get the added bonus of helping Europe at the same time.
Of Libya Hillary (then Sec Of State) said: We came, we saw, he died. That about sums up US foreign policy.
Totally agree. SA will wait to make the right move. We should make the right move before they do and trigger regime change.
Latest from Art. Significant confusion on how much Oil is where? Back to the Future?
“Lower net imports and higher consumption account for all of the comparative inventory reductions since late June but only for a little more than one-half of reductions for the previous 4 months. It is disturbing that this important development cannot be more fully understood.”
http://www.artberman.com/u-s-inventory-reductions-probably-not-sustainable/
Interesting. Art doesn’t think that the current actions are going to do much to really reduce inventory.
If solar PV and wind was all turned off right now, would anyone even notice?
“If a solar power plant breaks down in the Mojave Desert and no one is around to see it, does anyone notice it?” 😉
if a wind turbine falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
What is the sound of one blade crashing?
do you mean like one hand clapping?
Saudi Arabia Builds Cities in the Sand to Move Beyond Oil
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-06/saudi-arabia-builds-cities-in-the-sand-to-take-economy-past-oil
i can’t wait to visit a saudi entertainment hub
It’s all horribly unsustainable setting up cities in places where there should only be sand and camels. While the Saudi oil export surplus dwindles towards nothing, the Saudi state keeps inching ever closer to internal collapse. These (soon-to-be-ex) oil-states have not much to offer the world beyond their oil trade fueled money circulation machines. When the party is over the emperor’s clothes amount to nothing. No oil, no food, no ground water, no internal security, no military power to strong arm their international assets, etc. China can hold on to their land stakes around the world with their diverse industrial, financial and military approach, but what do these Persion Gulf states have except radical religious views and skyscrapers in the desert? They will be forgotten within years after the oil money runs dry.
China will be no better off than the KSA … when the KSA implodes….
Timing? Skillz? Chinese are developing own natgas in the shelf and mainland, but also finalizing connectors to East Siberian and Artic natgas areas.
KSA guys have been announcing turn to natgas for years. Is it going to be enough paper over their spoiled societies for the long term, most likely not. Near-midterm possible, but the Asians have slightly more degrees of freedom for action (resources, tech, ..).
Fascinating historical re-run: as soon as the Arabs had conquered their Empire in the 7th-9th centuries, they sat back and enjoyed the good life – slave girls/boys and hashish, hunting parties. etc.
To their minds, t seems there is no point in being at the top unless you get to do absolutely nothing: Saudi Arabia. Idleness is status. Industriousness is for the peasants.
The world runs on oil….
And even if it did not — how would China not implode when the rest of the world is imploding around it?
Making SA an entertainment center is about as realistic as 72 virgins waiting for you after you blow yourself to smithereens.
what?
you’re not into camel races?
That is a mis-print. It was circles in the sand not cities.
I reckon they should sell tickets to the beheadings that take place here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deera_Square
As we can see from the popularity of MMA — and we know historically that people enjoyed observing humans being fed to wild animals….. this concept has a huge potential audience.
For those unable to travel to see the action live …. we could have pay per view.
Another idea could be a reality show that features the many whor emastering coke snorting princes in the Saud family — the camera could follow them from club to club then back to their hotel rooms where they engage in drug fueled orgies…. I’d go pay per view on this as well
Dubai
https://st3.idealista.pt/news/arquivos/2017-03/dubai_08.jpg?sv=HTqfyMX_
New car sales fall with 20% diesel decline amid clean air crackdown
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/car-sales-fall-20-diesel-decline-amid-clean-082500330.html
blimey!
“Hybrid and electric sales jumped by almost 65%, with almost 9,000 models sold, the SMMT said.”
some Brits remain optimistic!
“It meant sales were 2.2% down on the year to date.”
fear of the consequences of Brexit?
or just economic decline?
Inception is such an amazing movie (and great Zimmer soundtrack, as always)!!!!
Great track to play as we exit IC soon…
Peak Demand? No, A New Gasoline Demand Record
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2017/08/07/peak-demand-no-a-new-gasoline-demand-record/#38054a1f3daa
Right. The low prices are helping gasoline consumption grow.
“Speculative investors have been scooping up oil lately, a frenzy the likes of which hasn’t been seen for months, and some say it could all end badly.
“So-called net long positions for WTI oil CLU7, -0.69% in the latest week—in other words investors betting that oil prices will rise—climbed a further 53,019 contracts in the week of Aug. 1, according to Commerzbank analysts citing data from the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission and Bloomberg. That takes the level to just under 289,879 for the week, the highest since mid-April.
“And they have in fact almost tripled, versus a low from five weeks ago, wrote the analysts…
“Over the past six weeks, a nearly 20% rise in oil prices has been supported by these speculative investors, said the Commerzbank analysts.
“A sharp drop in oil inventories has caused a shift in market sentiment, as it is “seen by many, market participants as a sign of market rebalancing,” said Carsten Fritsch, analyst at Commerzbank, in emailed comments. But he added that those hopes are probably “not warranted.””
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/investors-have-been-betting-big-that-oil-will-rise-this-is-how-it-may-go-wrong-2017-08-07
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-offering-idUSKBN1AN13I
Tesla seeks 1.5 billion more to fund car #3 production. Am I crazy or is Tesla getting farther and farther away from eventual net profits?
unfortunately investors see their investment as being in on the ground floor of a new motor industry.
think Ford or Mercedes, around 1905. That is what investors smell, that the car/truck-less land that was the world at that time, is there for the taking once again, so when the i/c cars stop running, an entire new car-form will replace the old, and billions will be made.
they see wheels=wealth, and have the certainty that Ford et al can be repeated in this century. What can possibly go wrong?
The current crop of vehicles appears to be reaching peak affordability. Bringing an even more complex and expensive vehicle into production at this point in time seems futile.
Cue once again our clueless friend (Drum Roll please): Tony Seba Ladies and Gentlemen!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxryv2XrnqM
(1) No one to fix the cars once Tesla goes bankrupt.
(2) No scale up of away from home charging stations.
(3) Electric grid has problems. Cannot handle the cars in many places; certainly not fast charging in quantity.
(4) Little screen on new inexpensive Tesla is hard to read/operate while driving.
(5) Someone else comes out with better product, or buyers are out to impress their neighbors. Or buyers of resale cars live in apartments and have no place to plug in vehicles. Resale values plummet.
It is quite interesting to peruse any Tesla forums there are (Reddit has one), there are many complaints about the reliability of the charging stations. Much slower than advertised in some cases and –even though Tesla seems to know – they don’t do anything about it. Plus long waits just to get to the public chargers on the west coast. It’s amazing a company blowing thru so much money can’t afford to maintain their own infrastructure. There are also serious reliability issues as has been mentioned here before. People mistakenly think these things are simpler than the ICE equivalent. No way, no how.
And there is no such thing as a $35,000 model X. Never will be. https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/08/06/surprise-the-real-tesla-model-3-doesnt-cost-35000.aspx
While we are on the topic of Delusion…..
I was driving and listening to radio CNN … I mean radio New Zealand … and a Green Grooopie was being interviewed — she’s a councilor in Wellington …
And she was waxing on about how all of Europe will be ICE free by 2040 latest… France has joined the UK … more are coming …
Then she was moaning about how NZ signed the Paris Treaty on G w — and since then has done absolutely nothing. She wants EVs and solar panels everywhere
A few take aways from this …
1. I had to make sure there were no sharp objects in the hotel room — as I was feeling murderous after listening to that
2. Consider this Green madness — it is accepted as absolute truth — imagine trying to argue with someone like this explaining how solar and EVS will never save the world — or better still show her the Hong Kong study that shows they are MORE polluting…
You would be considered a Nazi …. she would shut you down — call you the devil — call you a sick bastard… you would not be able to get a word in …. because she is right bat sh it crazy…
3. Yet the MSM lines up right behind this cracked hag… not a peep … cheering her on … agreeing 100% — now we know for a fact that what this MoreONic fool is promoting is a LIE… if we know – surely the MSM would challenge her on a few points … but nope…. it’s like giving a big platform for a cracker jack to spout insanity ….
4. Let’s go to G W … which she touched on because this all goes hand in hand… so if she is cracker jack nuts about renewables and EVs …. does it not go hand in hand that she is cracker jack nuts about G w?
Challenge her on EVs and she’d be ready to slit your throat because you are evil
Challenge her on renewable energy and she’d throw you down a flight of stairs because you are evil
Challenge her on G w and she’s happily put a bullet in your head.
Now guess why no country does sweet f789 all about G w?
1. Because there is nothing that can be done
2. Because they know that we are not the problem here.
Think about that — why hold these big conferences in places like Paris – with hundreds of people flying in on PRIVATE jets…. when these guys know full well that we either burn more coal (and oil) or we die.
Why are they doing this? Why did Gore make his movie? Why does the MSM pound on about all this?
When NOTHING CAN BE DONE.
It is glaringly obvious — this entire movement — G w — renewable — EVs — is 100% directed at shaping the way we think… keeping our minds off the real axe that is soon going to meet with our necks
http://s2.dmcdn.net/KtxCA.jpg
While we are on the topic of Delu..sion…..
I was driving and listening to radio CNN … I mean radio New Zealand … and a Gr een Grooopie was being interviewed — she’s a councilor in Wellington …
And she was waxing on about how all of Europe will be ICE free by 2040 latest… France has joined the UK … more are coming …
Then she was moaning about how NZ signed the Paris Treaty on G w — and since then has done absolutely nothing. She wants EVs and solar panels everywhere
A few take aways from this …
1. I had to make sure there were no sharp objects in the hotel room — as I was feeling murderous after listening to that
2. Consider this Gr een madness — it is accepted as absolute truth — imagine trying to argue with someone like this explaining how solar and EVS will never save the world — or better still show her the Hong Kong study that shows they are MORE polluting…
You would be considered a Nazi …. she would shut you down — call you the devil — call you a sick bastard… you would not be able to get a word in …. because she is right bat sh it crazy…
3. Yet the MSM lines up right behind this cracked hag… not a peep … cheering her on … agreeing 100% — now we know for a fact that what this More ONic fool is promoting is a L IE… if we know – surely the MSM would challenge her on a few points … but nope…. it’s like giving a big platform for a cracker jack to spout ins anity ….
4. Let’s go to G W … which she touched on because this all goes hand in hand… so if she is cracker jack nuts about renewables and EVs …. does it not go hand in hand that she is cracker jack nuts about G w?
Challenge her on EVs and she’d be ready to slit your throat because you are e vil
Challenge her on renewable energy and she’d throw you down a flight of stairs because you are e vil
Challenge her on G w and she’s happily put a bul let in your head.
Now guess why no country does sweet f789 all about G w?
1. Because there is nothing that can be done
2. Because they know that we are not the problem here.
Think about that — why hold these big conferences in places like Paris – with hundreds of people flying in on PRIVATE jets…. when these guys know full well that we either burn more coal (and oil) or we die.
Why are they doing this? Why did Gore make his movie? Why does the MSM pound on about all this?
When NOTHING CAN BE DONE.
It is glaringly obvious — this entire movement — G w — ren ewable — EVs — is 100% directed at shaping the way we think… keeping our minds off the real axe that is soon going to meet with our necks
http://s2.dmcdn.net/KtxCA.jpg
I actually gave a go at listening to “An Inconvienient Sequel”. I couldn’t get through more than five minutes of Al blaming every known malady of man on glo.bal wa..rm.ing. The gree.nhouse effect I can accept, the BS about forest fires being worse and bigger and every other thing being BIGGER and BADDER I cannot. It’s a hype machine that is way out of control.
Yes but this strategy works — take for instance the arctic ice…. it melted… then we had a record freeze in 2014…. that conveniently doesn’t get mentioned….
It is called cherry picking…
And of course — this was not that long ago
http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/virtualmuseum/images/raw/IA_Fig7_0_2.jpg
And then there is this:
Icy Greenland was Once Pretty Green, Study Finds. Greenland, the icy island nation in the Arctic, gets its name from an Icelandic murderer exiled there, who called it “Greenland” in hopes that the name would attract settlers. But it turns out that long ago, Greenland was actually quite green.
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/6653/20140418/icy-greenland-was-once-pretty-green-study-finds.htm
Oh and I generally avoid people too much to encounter many of the things you describe. Perhaps this fall when I return to University. The group think is amazing. Green has become PC.
It’s G W — EVs — and renewable energy — cradle to coffin these days…
And there is no questioning any of this …. without resulting in pariah status.
They are learning a lesson – the expensive way
http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-you-can-ignore-reality-but-you-can-t-ignore-the-consequences-of-ignoring-reality-ayn-rand-82-55-05.jpg
This just goes to demonstrate how a reality can be manufactured….
Recall my earlier post from Mad Men …. There are few people who get to decide what will happen in our world — pull back the curtain and take your seat — you have been invited to join them.
This is why the tools of controlling perception are incredibly important. The PR and Ad people … hand in hand with a compliant media — create reality. Throw in education and money… and you got a matrix machine
They are 100% driving Tesla — without a compliant media then Tesla would not happen.
Same with shale.
Same renewables.
Likewise with G W….. if the MSM simply ignored this supposed problem — that has no fix — then nobody would be talking about it… and there would be no solar or EVs…. because the entire point of those is — we are told — to create a sustainable world — and phase out the burning of carbon …
If Al Gore does not make his movie — and the MSM did not take the baton and run with it …. then would we be talking about any of this?
The MSM has no obligation to report on any issue — they certainly have no obligation to report (ad nauseam) on an issue that obviously (to some) has no solution.
So why did Gore make his movie? When there are no solutions?
Why does the MSM bother with this — when there are no solutions?
Remember – the MSM does not exist to inform you — it exists to CONTROL what you think… to control your reality.
When it repeats something over and over…. that is the signal …. that they’ve got a whopper of a lie that has been passed down from the Ministry of Truth…
The MOT has given the lie highest priority.
That is the tell — repetitive ‘facts’ in an effort to control what you think.
It obviously is a very successful formula. Few recognize it.
Further on this…
I have a google news alert for the words ‘hong kong’
Since the umbrella movement a few years ago I regularly get bursts of ‘news’ from MSM sources — they are generally pro-democracy themed — anti-china themed…. the sorts of things you’d see when someone was trying to set the table for some sort of revolution…
Most people would not really notice the volumes of articles with these themes because most people do not get alerts — they would only look at a few MSM sources… so they would see nothing out of the ordinary ….
But when you see the sheer volumes coming through — you can get the sense that someone is trying to push an agenda… trying to control what the masses think…. China is bad –China is evil etc….
Clearly behind the scenes the CIA is actively trying to foment something here — China obviously knows it and that is why this little son of a b itch is under the thumb ….
Have I mentioned that I would like to see the Chinese govt throw the bast ard … who met with US minders in Macau…. into a dungeon and throw away the key???
http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/140922085548-hong-kong-youth-joshua-wong-horizontal-large-gallery.jpg
We see the same thing at play with Putin …. the MSM is entirely anti Russia …
Thought control through repetition.
I would estimate the other than the weather and sports scores — and articles about cats up trees… well over 90% of the MSM is just pure MOT press release regurgitation …
However it is not totally useless — if you know what to look for you can piece together a rough idea of the truth on some issues — because there are a few facts mixed in with the PR….
But it very much is like trying to piece together a puzzle – in a dark room.
The main utility of the MSM — if one understands the purpose of the repetition — is knowing that when they hammer away on an issue — that tells you it is absolutely a lie.
And that is very useful in busting the matrix.
The rating agency said the overall company’s “B2” rating was supported by the fact that if Tesla ends up in serious financial trouble, its brand name, products and physical assets would be of “considerable value” to other automakers.
Ha ha ha…. right up there with Delorean ….
http://car-logos.com/images/lsd/deloreanlogo001.png
Whenever I read an article about Tesla — something that should not exist… I wonder if I am caught in the Twilight Zone….
Same thing goes when I see a news clip with people talking about Mars colonies…. is this for real?
in this article the msm talk about cdo being threats to global economy
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/01/the-sequel-to-the-global-financial-crisis-is-here.html?
this remind me of the scene in the big short
https://youtu.be/A25EUhZGBws
Bundling together low rated bonds, and selling pieces of them as high rated bonds, has been done before. The assumption that is made is that defaults are not highly correlated, but that is not really true.
in this article the msm talk about cdo being threats to global economy
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/01/the-sequel-to-the-global-financial-crisis-is-here.html?
__source=Facebook
this remind me of the scene in the big short
https://youtu.be/A25EUhZGBws
what happens to a nation when the oil-economy breaks down
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/07/democracy-die-venezuela-implosion-hannah-dreier-215467
important to note that venezuela still has plenty of oil, but the economic system that makes use of it has collapsed, not the oil supply itself
law and order and basic majority-prosperity is no longer holding together, so the country is coming apart. As I’ve forecast before, as Saudi oil-economy begins to falter, the same thing will happen there.
It’s not the oil in the ground, it’s the way nations make use of it. Oilwealth is ultimately corruptive, and people will grab what they can to survive.
Venezuela has been an odd and sad case even per prevailing C/South American conditions and narratives. The “mutantes” aka the kleptocracy class was never much interested at least in token diversification of the oil income (at home). And when the socialists-redistributionists finally took over, the oil at competitive extraction costs was largely gone, pop spoiled for generations to do any work, supportive regimes relatively weak then (Cuba-China-Russia).. and on top of it, heavy oil processing and regional embargo power located in the US, lolz..
You would have to be a brainiack (and very lucky to boot) of the millenniums to turn such misfortunes easily around.. hah
There was a good article in the Guardian (which quickly disappeared), in which an academic from the LSE who had been in love with Chavez’s Venezuela acknowledged that once the Chavistas got their hands on the oil loot, they were incredibly corrupt, and very poor managers (the usual thing of Bolshevik’s getting the first pickings and the best dachas, etc) and that she simply hadn’t understood how much it had all – the funding of the revolution and the social programmes – depended on the right oil price. Rare honesty in an academic! For people like her it had all seemed to be a glorious fairy tale.
Possible, and probable. But the bottom line remains the aggregate decades of “mutantes” looting vs “chavistas” embezzlement (personal) is like ~10 000 : 1 scale.
In term of redistribution, as pointed above, bad timing and management, plus not much luck either. It went all basically through the drain..
Some time ago, there was a rumor spreading of some hairbrain scheme of China building a new canal in Central America, not only for hauling the Venezuelan crude across Pacific. But I guess it has been abandoned or not serious in the first place.
one thing in this article show that usa is very smart country
Ninety-five percent of Venezuela’s revenue comes from oil. It’s basically the only way the government is getting money right now. And the U.S. happens to be the biggest customer for that oil, and one of the very few governments still paying cash for oil. So, if the U.S. put an oil embargo in place, that would have a huge, dramatic effect, immediately, on Venezuela, and the government would probably default. There would be a reshuffling of alliances. But, it always seems to be that there are only bad options with Venezuela, because those oil sanctions would also probably lead to maybe famine-level hunger, to extreme suffering, and nobody really wants that either
Question for Gail–
Do you see Nigeria going the way of Venezuela?
It may take a little while, but I expect that Nigeria is probably headed in the direction of Venezuela.
A falling dollar leads to a rising euro. The strong euro will hit European industry and exports.
Don’t panic Germany.
http://m.dw.com/en/german-industrial-output-drops-unexpectedly/a-39989559
The rising euro is another impact that makes a shift in relativities short lasting.
Perhaps businesses have shifted to countries that Burn More Coal and produce cheaper electricity…
Instead of continuing to pay outrageous prices for electricity produces by fake renewable energy in Germany
Nearing the threshold area for net energy induced collapse will likely produce attempted collectivization revival, although perhaps not intended, that’s what is this article providing lot of ammunition for essentially. Because chances are sooner or later the European model of mixed capitalism depicted there will likely atrophy into very brutal collectivization. There are zealotry people waiting in the wings already like Martin Schultz (and perhaps even worse -if ever possible?- demagogues) just to sail on this ship ASAP.
https://surplusenergyeconomics.wordpress.com/2017/08/06/102-the-great-divide/
Now inside this scenario and its high probability, we should ask how deep and how long can they operate such regime? It will likely mean as the first step restructuring of the EU into core and less affiliated satellites, because phasing these measures won’t be appreciated by the many of the PIIGS as well say Poland and Hungary..
That goes full circle basically to FE’s paradigm, why prep, when it’s futile, albeit for different reason in this scenario.
Certainly, many young people in Europe who are outside the small circle of the privileged middle class would be happy with some form of collectivization in the name of ‘equality’: they own nothing anyway, and are generally historically ignorant and unable to appreciate the civil (and mental) liberty implications.
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/insideiim/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/26031634/pied-piper.jpg
here Tesla type of company in foods
Beyond Meat made it into Whole Foods Market meat section in August 2016—the first startup to get into aisles to compete with the likes of beef and turkey—and has since gotten into dozens more. It was recently picked up by Safeway. Its chief competitor, Impossible Foods has chosen a different path, looking to get into restaurants first and retail later.
Then, there are lab-grown “cellular-agriculture meats,” the kinds being developed fiber by fiber in laboratories. None of those have hit the market. Part of the reason is because the process of making it is too cost prohibitive to amass a large supply quickly.
The issue is scaling—being able to consistently produce enough product to meet demand. There’s no doubt these new food companies are getting closer, but it will likely take several years (the consensus is that it will be around 2020) before a slab of animal-free meat will be seen as affordable by the average consumer
https://qz.com/997565/in-four-years-the-price-of-lab-grown-meat-has-fallen-by-96-theres-still-a-
long-way-to-go/
another disillusion companies that believe lab based meat will replace animal meat in less than 10 years
The Solar Jesus in person, turning Hopium into Hype
https://youtu.be/OR7c2fb_dps
There it is … the Tesla model 3. What you see here is the result of tons of pollution, waste and liberal use of finite world resource to produce an electric car. It will still need the road and bridge infrastructure. So, we can’t stop burning the fossil fuels yet. Bring money, lots of it, if you want to buy it. And mostly it needs a destination. As more and more people are out of work that destination is rapidly becoming nowhere. Sad that the car of the future has no future.
IC has no future…
The people interviewed are hysterical. Half of them were pissed at the time, so they can be forgiven, but the other half? Complete fruitloops.
The Green Groupies just got a shot of hopium right into their brains….
And here is Don Draper and Eddie… in action again …. the moment is building for an ICE free world….
Actually in this respect they are correct — there will be no ICE vehicles by 2040…. but then there will be no people either
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/france-petrol-diesel-ban-vehicles-cars-2040-a7826831.html
More from Don…. now this is interesting … since there is no way in hell that Volvo is going to do this … then are we looking at an EOW (end of world) scenario no later than 2019?
https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/5/15921208/volvo-all-electric-by-2019
The Green Groupies are high fiving over this ….
Couldn’t happen to a nicer group of retards.
They are not much different that most other people …. they believe what they believe — no matter what the facts dictate….
If you tried to challenge one of them they would be more than capable of trotting out fake or cherry picked data to demonstrate that you were wrong
No matter what you put in front of them — it will not matter.
I have been in their position — on numerous occasions over the years… the only difference between me and them is that I escaped the delusion….
I can’t stand how they think they’re better than everyone else, just because they “care” so much for the environment, human rights etc. If they cared, they’d shut the f$ck up, and live on $11.50 a day at some trailer park.
Hang on …. one of their fundamental beliefs is that we are boiling the planet by burning coal and oil….
Their other beliefs are just extensions of that fundamental belief — they see solar and wind and EVs as solutions….
So they are wrong about solar and wind and EVs… but their fundamental belief is absolutely spot on?
So it is ok to ridicule their solutions — but what about the fundamental belief?
And if their fundamental belief is correct then should those who share that belief not applaud them because at least they are supporting efforts to solve the core problem?
Because my position is that the core belief and the solutions are a giant crock of shit… then they are fair game for my mockery….
Now now FE, I thought we declared a truce on this topic?
Anyway, they “the deluded” are right and wrong at the same time. One can be completely right that one’s actions are leading to disaster, but refuse – for fear, inertia, or a false sense of security, to take evasive action.
This is the human condition in a nutshell. As individuals, many of us can understand that things are going to end badly. However, as a collective, we are are all just being dragged along by a juggernaut of biological determinism.
I have declared nothing but all out war on this topic. Because I engaged in a never-ending war against delusional thinking.
I fail how anyone can think that these people can be right on part of the formula and wrong on the rest….
As I have pointed out – the MSM renewable and EV ‘solutions’ are directly tied to the G w problem….
It is either all fake — or all real.
Because it is presented as one interconnected story by the MSM…. problem >>> solution.
If the solution is fake — then it stands that the problem was fake too.
Why would the MSM report on a problem that has no solution?
Please explain that to me.
It would be like reporting endlessly that the sun is some day going to burn itself out. Day after day after day reminding us of that.
Why tell us that – when there is nothing we can do about it?
This is so obviously one massive circle j erk…. I really cannot understand how you cannot see it.
Well I guess I can — you are experiencing the exact same problems that people who will not see the truth on a lot of issues like EVs solar wind god etc….
Nothing new here.
If you think these Tesla grooopies are fo ols… then you have at least some understanding of the way I feel about those who believe in G w.
Yes, one massive circle jerk. It’s all going down. Why are so uptight about it?
Because delusional thought is the enemy — and has no place on FW.
Therefore I will defeat it.
http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/shark-eating-seal-shark-gifs.gif
Psile and Eddy, this is a fascinating discussion you two are having, and where else than OFW would we be able to read something like this?
For me, the Tesla groupies are much like the Apple groupies of 20 years ago when the prophet Jobs returned to lead them out of the valley of darkness and he still had hair! They also remind me of the Trekkies who mobbed Shatner and Nimoy, et al. I wouldn’t describe them as retards as their average IQ is probably double that of Justin Bieber fans, crack heads and devotees of the Home Shopping channels. If they were thick, there would be nothing much to understand about them and that would be the end of it.
What we should be looking to explain is why such ostensibly reasonably intelligent people have fallen into the trap of believing that Elon Musk is a visionary and not far short of “Our Lord and Savior”. If I may be allowed to overgeneralize: Tesla fans tend to be groupies. They like to be members of an IN group who are ahead of the curve. They like following a charismatic leader. They like the idea that they have seen the way forward. They are aware that the world can keep going on as it has up to now—which probably puts them in the top 20% of humanity as far as being wide awake goes. They want to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem. And they want to be cool, even if only through association with something cool.
It hasn’t occurred to them that there may be no solution, OR that if there is one, a Tesla EV and solar wall isn’t part of it. That’s their big blind spot. Why can’t they see it?
They are emotionally invested in being part of the solution. It’s tied up with their egoistic self image of being revolutionaries building a better world. Admitting that it might not be a solution after all and that it might make the world a worse place rather than a better one would mean abandoning their evaluation of their own wisdom and virtue, causing a self-inflicted blow to their ego.
Also, they don’t get a lot of exposure to the idea that EVs and solar aren’t part of the solution. QUite the contrary. The propaganda touting FFs as the problem and renewables as the solution still dominates the messages coming out of governments and corporate media. It is part of our contemporary mythology, part of the consensus trance, in keeping with our modern religion—The Church of Comfort and Convenience—and its doctrine of sustainable progress.
Moreover, as Harry Field Senior said, fake only disappoints when found out.
(This is one of the best conversations in the entire Inspector Morse series, by the way.)
https://youtu.be/HH-b4A3i3fk
In a nutshell… they think exactly what they are told to think… by the MSM…. they act … as Don Draper has convinced them to act…..
These tactics work on 99.9999999999999% of all people.
The meaning of life? Trying to escape the clutches of Don Draper and the MSM…. not as easy as it sounds
When I listen to a video like that (I must admit I only made it about 30 seconds in…) I of course think these people are delusional….
I also wonder what would happen if Elon were to say ‘and after the presentation if there are any hotties in the audience who want to jump in the back seat with me and go for a ride — just queue up over there’ — how many of the Green Grooopies would get in line….
And finally — when I see mass delusion like this — I wonder in what ways I remain delusional …. which issues am I not seeing clearly…..
That is my main take-away from this — where have I missed the facts — or why cannot I not see the facts and logic on an issue…
Forever vigilant — forever challenging — forever trying see if I am weak … or better still … wrong…
Because everyone is like those people in the video — depending on the issue….
Everyone is failing to see logic —or simply unwilling to change their position even when the facts dictate a change.
Apologies if a link to this article by Jonathan Rutherford has already been posted. But our Norman has been to the site and kindly given the author a sympathetic comment for at least recognizing that the problem is serious.
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/whats-really-driving-the-global-economic-crisis-is-net-energy-decline-82efb9ca45fe
This article begins with the verboten truth that “what’s really driving the global economic crisis is net energy decline” and warns us of a very hard landing, but then it veers off into delusion (or hopium) about there being prospects for some kind of Good Life after BAU for those of us fortunate enough to survive the fall. In this discourse, Rutherford mentions the work of Ted Trainer, Nafeez Ahmed, Heinberg & Finlay, Minqi Li, and Charles Hall.
thanks.
also, a picture is worth a thousand words!
Such cynicism in one so young! Of course we will enjoy the Good Life after The Fall: living in tiny, vulnerable, destitute, subsistence communities, in a polluted environment: Paradise.
Communities so small that we will all know and love one another, simply vibrating with a newly-rediscovered sense of brotherhood and eco-morality.
Having banished the wicked Genie of Industrial Civilization, we will look into the bottle and discover that’s it’s full of the milk of human kindness.
And the Archdruid will cast some spells over us…… 🙂
Koombaya m’lord… Koombaya…..
The need for a happy ending, it’s part of the human condition.
It ends with, ” Our collective fate, as Trainer explains, depends largely on the rapid emergence of currently small scale new society movements — building examples of the sane alternative in the shell of the old — and rapidly multiplying and scaling up, as the legitimacy of the system declines.”
I guess that is the delusion or hopium. I don’t like to discourage people from trying, however. People need something worthwhile to do. The catch is that they believe renewable and sustainable are synonyms, and they very definitely are not.
They seem rather delusional: ‘Rapid scaling-up’ is an Industrial Age concept.
And how is one supposed to keep these seeds of the future going in the here and now?
Their very divergence from the current system, if significant, must make them non-viable.
As the current system becomes less ‘legitimate’ (I suppose he means going bust) it will become ever more pressing in its demands – taxes,regulations, etc.
Established vested interests will protect themselves and attempt to crush any other model.
People with a fancy writing style can make anything sound good and feasible.
You are right about rapid scaling up being an industrial age concept.
Nobody mentions Gail and FW …. because there is no hopium served up here
ha!
by the looks of it, that guardrail was already dented.
car vs guardrail… car wins!
The U.S. Shale Boom Is Slowing Down
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-04/shale-boom-slows-down-as-investor-enthusiasm-for-permian-fades
“Oil explorers reduced rigs drilling in U.S. oilfields this week, fueling optimism that a shale slowdown and OPEC production cuts will be enough to deflate a glut and strengthen crude prices.”
“fueling” optimism! ha! pun intended?
this, plus Saudi Arabia essentially saying they are trying to manipulate prices higher by reducing their exports by 10% more starting this month.
does shale slowdown + SA cutback = higher prices?
who knows?
we shall see soon enough.
High enough prices, for long enough, to make any difference?
Or does it just make a temporary spike to, say $75 or $80, and then go back down again? That is basically not helpful.
China and its demand is part of the question. Also, how long prices can stay up.
temp extreme price changes in either direction are surely unhelpful.
do you think more that oil prices follow supply and demand or is it more manipulation?
Oil prices follow mostly supply and demand. Demand is too low, because wages of the common (or non-elite) workers are too low to afford big capital goods that use oil, or are made with oil, such as homes and cars. More wages for non elite worker would help the situation.
There may also be some manipulation. This article talks about China using debt to manipulate commodity prices. China Shuffles its Debt Around.
It’s probably going to happen, i.e. for too long oil price has been too low for the Saudi’s so they have to do something desperate to get prices up higher, but what will happen to the world economy? We’ve been doing ok with super low interest rates and low fuel prices, but ok was like 1-2% GDP. Raise interest rates or the cost of fuel substantially and it will test the world economy. But also, if oil price increases 25 bucks a barrel, that incentivizes tar sands and back to more fracking, which increases supply and puts downward pressure on oil price again.
It seems like oil price is stuck where it is, about 50 a barrel. We’ll see if anything can jolt it out of that groove.
Rather fascièating: https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001900760001-9.pdf
very often, fiction is stranger than truth.
Strange!
And the interviewer took the subject’s answers and went on to write Stargate and was able to sell the script to a Hollywood studio thus making him a fortune, which was enough for him to retire from the CIA. He has been living the high life in Hollywood ever since, hobnobbing with stars and enjoying life! 🙂
The dollar is falling becaus investors are selling dollars and leaving the American economy for economies with higher growth rates?
http://www.institutionalinvestor.com/Article/3738634/Asset-Management-Green-Investing/Why-Now-Is-the-Time-To-Invest-in-International-Debt.html#.WYeK6khuLR0
The Saudi’s are going to remove their peg after their IPO sale. Then the dollar will collapse!
You may be right on this, but I need to think this through.
Right now, one Saudi Riyal equals something like .27 US Dollar, and that rate has been fixed for many years. Now suppose that Saudi Arabia allows the Riyal to float, the way, for example, the Russian Ruble floats. When oil prices were high, one Russian Ruble was worth about .031 US dollar, or a bit more. Since the price of oil has dropped, the Ruble is worth barely half as much. This means that when Russia sells its oil in dollars, it gets approximately as many rubles for the oil as it did before the devaluation. People in Saudi Arabia cannot afford to buy goods priced in US dollars any more. Any debt in US dollars becomes very hard to repay.
This does reduced demand for US goods somewhat, but not a whole lot, because Saudi Arabia is not a huge country. At the same time, Saudi Arabia gets close to twice as many Riyals for its oil (assuming oil is still priced in dollars), which is helpful for paying local citizens and keeping local businesses operating. Other currencies will change a little as well in this. The thing that I am missing, but should understand, is why the dollar will collapse?
Or would the oil be priced in Riyals? It seems like I have heard this before, but not really understood.
I know the Saudi’s wont put it up in New York because they are afraid they will get sued by the 911 victims families.
This is nonsense. Lol. The greenback is being suppressed by the Fed, in coordination with other CB’s, to keep deflation from reaching its ultimate destination. Global economic collapse.
is there deflation now and can you quantify it?
how much longer can CBs hold back deflation?
what is your guess on a timeline?
I don’t recall seeing any deflation data since 2008/2009.
Deflation in commodity prices is the biggest red flag. Shows the wind is ebbing out of the world economy. CB’s are doing whatever it takes to keep things bubbly, by propping up stocks, bonds and real estate – ever since 2008.
They had a very nasty scare last year when various foreign markets, notably China’s, started to derail, but they’ve injected trillions into the thing so far to keep it balanced.
But eventually the real economy of minerals, energy and food will overtake the fools economy of numbers and widgets.
I don’t guess on timelines, invariably one is almost always wrong in the short term, but when the day comes it sort of catches everyone by surprise – that’s the power of the exponential function. Things are always closer than they look, but not as close as you believe.
Having said that I don’t see how industrial civilisation can go on much past 2040, by which time I will be comfortably fitted out in my wooden suit. 🙂
By then, the world will need to consume twice as much oil, cut down or pave over three times as much of the natural world, and pump twice as much carbon into the atmosphere, just to keep square. Based on the IMF/WB’s requirement for 3% growth to maintain economic stability. This is with a population that is still increasing by 80m + p.a.
thanks.
China and India are both having problems now, although it may not being showing up in their reported GDP yet. So are a lot of other countries: Australia, many of the oil exporters, many mineral exporters.
It is hard to believe that the rest are doing well enough to save the day.
“The reactor deal was part of President Bill Clinton’s policy of persuading the North Korean regime to positively engage with the west.”
“The type of reactors involved in the ABB deal produce plutonium which needs refining before it can be weaponised. One US congressman and critic of the North Korean regime described the reactors as “nuclear bomb factories”.”
“ABB, a European engineering giant based in Zurich, when it won a $200m (£125m) contract to provide the design…”
lots of hands colluding on this one.
follow the money.
aiding and abetting a dictatorship for profit.
what could possibly go wrong?
oh, look, NK developing ICBMs in 2017.
Rumsfeld involved in Sale of Nuclear Reactors to North Korea (2000)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/may/09/nuclear.northkorea
Fake News A US Media Speciality
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/08/05/fake-news-us-media-speciality/
in the USA, data shows that most journalists lean strongly towards the left.
therefore, most “fake news” is produced by these liberal journalists.
bad as it is, will it only get worse?
That is because the right doesn’t hire journalists. You nitwit! Like Milo at breitbart, and Hannity, and Rush, etc. These people are just talk show hosts. Even Hannity says it on his show all the time “: I am not a journalist”.
‘Journalist?’
I prefer the Stockman term ‘Presstitute’
No such thing as a journalist….
MSM is a tool for control, and too powerfull a tool to be left in the hands of journalists, as you seem to imply. No, MSM is not made by journalists, it is made by their editors, advertisers, directors and owners. Journalists simply write/say what they are told.
MSM is a big business, owned by millionaires, therefore, they are all, by definition, right-wing. The only difference is some of them are far-right in the political spectrum, and others are center-right (aka as the liberals). Left-wing media exists only in Cuba.
+++++++++
And if you think about it — what would be the purpose of the news actually informing people — what would be the benefit?
And anyway — people don’t want the truth. They want to feel happy.
Imagine if the MSM were to run front page stories about how shale is a joke — how conventional oil is well past peak — how solar is nonsense — how EV’s are bullshit… how we shredded Iraq and Libya and Syria so that we could keep BAU alive and continue to live large….
This would cause mass hysteria
So since nobody wants truths — and giving them truths would only end badly for all involved… might as well use the MSM to keep the sheeple under control and entertained.
Agreed. And right now the sheep are all in a tizzy by Al Gores new climate doom trap! No need to startle the horses early!
Ye, everybody wins! The public get their puff of hopium, the MSM owners get their shot of and influence and wealth, and politics get their PR department for free, and doomsters get their laughs and (like everybody else) a few more years of life.
yes, definitely the owners make it say what they want.
the NYT is the personal blog of its owner Carlos Slim.
WashPo is the personal blog of ultra-lib owner Bezos.
many new gen billionaires are in fact ultra-lib like Zuckerberg.
the generalization that the MSM is owned by right wingers is absurd.
You mean Cuckberg!
oh, right!
so sorry about my mistake!
You don’t get it, maybe because you, like most americans, confuse “liberals” with “leftists”. For me a leftist is an anticapitalist, and a liberal is a social-democrat (search the definiton in wikipedia if you don’t what know what that is).
NY Times, W Post, Fox, etc, exists to defend the interests, the wealth, of its owners. That is their purpose, their core business. That is why leftist MSM is an oxymoron. And that’s why in the sections of politics and economics of the MSM you will only find lies, IOW, propaganda and advertsing. You’ll find the same of lies everywhere: in NYTimes, in Newsweek or USA Today.
It is only in sections that do not matter to the owners (society, life-style, etc.) that you find differences, and it is on the basis of these petty differences/ issues that “political” debates are made. It’s in these sections that the “difference” between liberals and conservatives is manifested: pro-choice/pro-life, pro-gay/anti-gay, etc.
Great comment JMS….you’re on a roll the last couple of days!! BTW, are you a night owl lol…it’s pretty early in your part of the world 😉
Thanks, Iteotwawki. I’m a night owl all right. I never get to bed before 4.30 am. It’s a nasty habit, I know, but too old in me to change. The last time I had to wake up early (i.e. at 10 am) was some 20 years ago…
And by the way, it’s time to go to bed. good night!
These are the most — and the least — trusted news sources in the U.S.
http://ei.marketwatch.com//Multimedia/2017/08/03/Photos/MG/MW-FR660_Truste_20170803172454_MG.jpg?uuid=3111a66e-7892-11e7-96b1-9c8e992d421e
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/these-are-the-most-and-the-least-trusted-news-sources-in-the-us-2017-08-03
Our Finite World didn’t make the list.
+++++++++++++
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He is probably right.
http://imgur.com/a/hZFmC
Germany powers itself 40% by coal.
https://cleantechnica.com/2017/08/02/will-germany-ever-phase-coal-coal-still-accounts-40-energy-mix/
Germany is so green!
http://imgur.com/c9jqzvJ
He seems to excel when it comes to musicals 😉
“The global oil industry now appears to be in the early stages of a cyclical expansion which is likely to see prices rise over the next few years, slowly at first but then accelerating later.”
http://peakoil.com/production/macroeconomic-risks-for-the-oil-industry
who knew?
Haha feeling trollish tonight Davey boy!!
yeah, I’m out of control!
I’ll try better maybe tomorrow.
Maybe, maybe not. Who knows? Cheers!
yes, I agree!
You’re one of those that needs the last comment eh Davey boy…
https://www.facebook.com/EnergyFromThorium/videos/10159826414695377/
Abundant cheap energy!
Opps wrong link
http://www.transatomicpower.com/
national lab to make money off of new nuclear
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2017/08/argonne-lab-will-verify-transatomic-power-molten-fuel-salt.html
yet another molten salt nuclear reactor company startup, in the bay area.
http://kairospower.com/
Not to picking up on startups, but consider this, even the most advanced company today, churning reactor vessels somewhat regularly (in parallel fashion), works on one unit 3-4yrs! before shipping onto site for further install. Simply, there are so many procedures and details to work through..
When is the startup going to start churn theirs? In 10-15-20yrs?
World, Silicon Valley thinks everything can be turned as fast as slamming some code and compiling.
Silicon Valley seems to think that profits don’t matter,
http://www.businessinsider.com/analysts-wrong-about-amazon-profit-2015-1
if its biggest stars, Twitter and Amazon are any indication. Bezos does a lot of chest-puffing about cutting costs and working his workers to death and his company is still barely turning a profit.
https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2017-07-27/amazon-earnings-not-a-lot-but-that-shouldn-t-be-a-surprise
“But Amazon is Amazon. It’s grabbing revenue and market share at the expense of all other priorities. Don’t pretend Bezos is going to wake up tomorrow and run his company to squeeze fat profits. ”
I find Amazon’s strategy is interesting given how many people here have said the economy has grown since 2008. Did that growth mean more profits and more dividend payments or was it more debt creation?
I’m starting to think that economic growth can occur now, with almost no increase in profits or energy consumption, if the recent oil prices are any indication.
There is a common thread. It really isn’t about wealth creation, just wealth transfer. They’ve figured out a way to get rich within a declining net energy economic system.
https://www.forbes.com/pictures/mdg45eikkf/1david-shaw/#29dadb4d5139
“Silicon Valley seems to think that profits don’t matter,” – Well, if ventures are no longer profitable and no future ventures appear to be either, then to justify ones job one must then say profitability doesn’t matter.
If I went to a venture capitalist and said I need 20 billion dollars — I am going to sell product ___ at half the price of the competition — losing x dollars per sale….
Provided I had enough funding in place — I would drive all competitors out of business…. then I would raise my price and have a monopoly on that market
Would I get funding….
In 50 years or so.
Abundant, cheap energy? Potatoes maybe?
This has been in my head all day, reminds me of my relationship with BAU.
Little by little, I’m losing you I can tell. (Junior Wells) Here is a fantastic cover of the original.
Great song Snorp!!!
Damn. I played a lot a blues in a lot a good bands but that was some great stuff.
Chicks and electric guitars…
https://i.imgflip.com/1cckrb.jpg
Spraying the faith all over.
https://gfycat.com/limpadvancedarrowana
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVG98f8NL5g
(btw great comments JMS)
Powerful. I noticed the cameramen on the stage didn’t fall. Damn atheists!
And now for something even more comic/depressing:
Reminds me of the amazing skills of the kiai master and what happens when he tries to use them in a real fight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd7M4H0b62k
Priceless! No-one calls you senile when you are wearing funny clothes….
Strange! I presume this action is just for this strange video. I know that some varieties of churches (Catholic, some Episcopal, some Eastern religions) use incense, but they certainly don’t use anything like this.
Faith has to grow exponentially too! Pump up sprayer will give way to fire hoses.
Typical religionists. Exactly what the Baal priests would do.
https://www.facebook.com/EnergyFromThorium/videos/10159826414695377/
Thorium reactors!
http://imgur.com/a/bDZNt
i think world stock market may never crash but countries will collapsing around
for ex venezuela stock market was best in the world in 2016
but we all now venezuela is collapse
The New York Times reported this week that the dollar has fallen 10 percent this year against a basket of currencies. The dollar is falling against the Mexican Peso. If the is a legitimate trend and not a short term aberration than it may be momentous. The mainstream seems to be picking up on the falling dollar phenomena. John Williams at shadow stats has been saying for at least five years that there could be a sudden onslaught of hyper inflation. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/04/the-dollar-index-is-doing-something-it-hasnt-since-1986.html
The hyper-inflation has already happened. That’s how we’ve gotten huge bubbles in every asset class around. Central banks, led by the Fed, are co-ordinating the devaluation of the U.S. dollar to prevent other currencies and economies from blowing up, as deflation picks up the pace. The trend otherwise would be for money to flow into U.S. dollars as “investors” look for a safe haven, as risk goes off.
BAU, there is no alternative! And the jokers in charge know it.
The falling dollar in 2017 is a big part of what has allowed the price of oil to rise, as measured in US dollars. At some point, the higher US oil price starts cutting back on US oil consumption, and the price of oil will fall again. When the price of oil falls, then we can expect a resurgence of pattern we had in the past–the dollar will tend to rise again.
australia looks like their having their first ‘occupy movement’ https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/video/2017/aug/05/sydneys-tent-city-homeless-people-rub-shoulders-with-the-elite-in-martin-place-video
How long do you think it will it last until it turns into a protest about lgbt rights, racism and feminism?
Yup, the ruling class knows how to rule.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/banks-discussing-negative-interest-rates-for-consumers-2015-10 i think the central banks will attempt this in their quest to help growth along with a digital currency it may keep bau ticking a little while longer i could be wrong though.
The crash can’t be too far away now. Talk about shovelling sh#t uphill…
The article is from 2015. The idea of course has been implemented in some slow-growing economies.
The Good Side of the Downside
http://www.placemakers.com/2017/08/03/good-side-of-the-downside-the-end-is-only-near/
2017 second-worst B.C. wildfire season on record
BC Wildfire has spent $204 million fighting 491,000 hectares of fires
https://www.surreynowleader.com/news/2017-now-second-worst-wildfire-season-on-record/
A bad guy with an IQ in the high double digits would be able to look at this and go hmmmmmm….
It is a very scaleable concept….. and if more built up areas were involved… the costs would be crippling …
It would be difficult to defend large areas of land and property from a motivated group of bad guys
And if you deployed soldiers all over the place — that sends a very unsettling message to the sheeple….
i can see where youre coming from fast eddie
the problem i seem to be intermittently suffering from is believing that there is some cabal of insiders that understand our predicament and have planned accordingly a solution to keep BAU going the only problem i haxe recently been finding is that after researching the evidence of the supposed insiders planning some sort of solution the evidence that i find reveals wishful thinking that they will overcome the hurdles presented by the entropy of our current diminishing returns system if i have wasted your time posting these ‘delusistani’ comments i apologize i guess once one realizes the truth that we are goners some hope creeps in to my thinking and then im off with the ‘fairies’ believing in bau- lite and all sorts of wishful thinking maybe thats what the ‘insiders’ may be suffering from.I truly am alone in my immediate circle of frriends family and work colleagues that know it.
Yep, wishful thinking.
This puppy is wildly out of equilibrium, and any illusion that elite’s have any control is wishful thinking by frightened and ignorant humans.
Simple stories are not the solution, even if we are in a predicament.
Later Comrades- I’m on the road and might be gone for quit a while.
yep see ya duncan well be here when you get back
http://www.placemakers.com/2017/08/03/good-side-of-the-downside-the-end-is-only-near/
The best post I’ve ever seen from planners. You there Froggman? Happy Trails, Duncan.