Citizens seem to be clamoring for shutdowns to prevent the spread of COVID-19. There is one major difficulty, however. Once an economy has been shut down, it is extremely difficult for the economy to recover back to the level it had reached previously. In fact, the longer the shutdown lasts, the more critical the problem is likely to be. China can shut down its economy for two weeks over the Chinese New Year, each year, without much damage. But, if the outage is longer and more widespread, damaging effects are likely.
A major reason why economies around the world will have difficulty restarting is because the world economy was in very poor shape before COVID-19 hit; shutting down major parts of the economy for a time leads to even more people with low wages or without any job. It will be very difficult and time-consuming to replace the failed businesses that provided these jobs.
When an outbreak of COVID-19 hit, epidemiologists recommended social distancing approaches that seemed to be helpful back in 1918-1919. The issue, however, is that the world economy has changed. Social distancing rules have a much more adverse impact on today’s economy than on the economy of 100 years ago.
Governments that wanted to push back found themselves up against a wall of citizen expectations. A common belief, even among economists, was that any shutdown would be short, and the recovery would be V-shaped. False information (really propaganda) published by China tended to reinforce the expectation that shutdowns could truly be helpful. But if we look at the real situation, Chinese workers are finding themselves newly laid off as they attempt to return to work. This is leading to protests in the Hubei area.
My analysis indicates that now, in 2020, the world economy cannot withstand long shutdowns. One very serious problem is the fact that the prices of many commodities (including oil, copper and lithium) will fall far too low for producers, leading to disruption in supplies. Broken supply chains can be expected to lead to the loss of many products previously available. Ultimately, the world economy may be headed for collapse.
In this post, I explain some of the reasons for my concerns.
[1] An economy is a self-organizing system that can grow only under the right conditions. Removing a large number of businesses and the corresponding jobs for an extended shutdown will clearly have a detrimental effect on the economy.
Figure 1. Chart by author, using photo of building toy “Leonardo Sticks,” with notes showing a few types of elements the world economy.
An economy is a self-organizing networked system that grows, under the right circumstances. I have attempted to give an idea of how this happens in Figure 1. This is an image of a child’s building toy. The growth of an economy is somewhat like building a structure with many layers using such a toy.
The precise makeup of the economy is constantly changing. New businesses are formed, and new consumers grow up and take jobs. Governments enact laws, partly to collect taxes, and partly to ensure fair treatment of all. Consumers decide which products to buy based on a combination of factors, including their level of wages, the prices being charged for the available goods, the availability of debt, and the interest rate on that debt. Resources of various kinds are used in producing goods and services.
At the same time, some deletions are taking place. Big businesses buy smaller businesses; some customers die or move away. Products that become obsolete are discontinued. The inside of the dome becomes hollow from the deletions.
If a large number of businesses are closed for an extended period, this will have many adverse impacts on the economy:
- Fewer goods and services, in total, will be made for the economy during the period of the shutdown.
- Many workers will be laid off, either temporarily or permanently. Goods and services will suddenly be less affordable for these former workers. Many will fall behind on their rent and other obligations.
- The laid off workers will be unable to pay much in taxes. In the US, state and local governments will need to cut back the size of their programs to match lower revenue because they cannot borrow to offset the deficit.
- If fewer goods and services are made, demand for commodities will fall. This will push the prices of commodities, such as oil and copper, very low.
- Commodity producers, airlines and the travel industry are likely to head toward permanent contraction, further adding to layoffs.
- Broken supply lines become problems. For example:
- A lack of parts from China has led to the closing of many automobile factories around the world.
- There is not enough cargo capacity on airplanes because much cargo was carried on passenger flights previously, and passenger flights have been cut back.
These adverse impacts become increasingly destabilizing for the economy, the longer the shutdowns go on. It is as if a huge number of deletions are made simultaneously in Figure 1. Temporary margins, such as storage of spare parts in warehouses, can provide only a temporary buffer. The remaining portions of the economy become less and less able to support themselves. If the economy was already in poor shape, the economy may collapse.
[2] The world economy was approaching resource limits even before the coronavirus epidemic appeared. This is not too different a situation than many earlier economies faced before they collapsed. Coronavirus pushes the world economy further toward collapse.
Reaching resource limits is sometimes described as, “The population outgrew the carrying capacity of the land.” The group of people living in the area could not grow enough food and firewood using the resources available at the time (such as arable land, energy from the sun, draft animals, and technology of the day) for their expanding populations.
Collapses have been studied by many researchers. The book Secular Cycles by Peter Turchin and Sergey Nefedov analyze eight agricultural economies that collapsed. Figure 2 is a chart I prepared, based on my analysis of the economies described in that book:
Figure 2. Chart by author based on Turchin and Nefedov’s Secular Cycles.
Economies tend to grow for many years before the population becomes high enough that the carrying capacity of the land they occupy is approached. Once the carrying capacity is hit, they enter a stagflation stage, during which population and GDP growth slow. Growing debt becomes an issue, as do both wage and wealth disparity.
Eventually, a crisis period is reached. The problems of the stagflation period become worse (wage and wealth disparity; need for debt by those with inadequate income) during the crisis period. Changes tend to take place during the crisis period that lead to substantial drops in GDP and population. For example, we read about some economies entering into wars during the crisis period in the attempt to gain more land and other resources. We also read about economies being attacked from outside in their weakened state.
Also, during the crisis period, with the high level of wage and wealth disparity, it becomes increasingly difficult for governments to collect enough taxes. This problem can lead to governments being overthrown because of unhappiness with high taxes and wage disparity. In some cases, as in the 1991 collapse of the central government of the Soviet Union, the top level government simply collapses, leaving the next lower level of government.
Strangely enough, epidemics also seem to occur within collapse periods. The rising population leads to people living closer to each other, increasing the risk of transmission. People with low wages often find it increasingly difficult to eat an adequate diet. As a result, their immune systems easily succumb to new communicable diseases. Part of the collapse process is often the loss of a significant share of the population to a communicable disease.
Looking back at Figure 2, I believe that the current economic cycle started with the use of fossil fuels back in the 1800s. The world economy hit the stagflation period in the 1970s, when oil supply first became constrained. The Great Recession of 2008-2009 seems to be a marker for the beginning of the crisis period in the current cycle. If I am right in this assessment, the world economy is in the period in which we should expect crises, such as pandemics or wars, to occur.
The world was already pushing up against resource limits before all of the shutdowns took place. The shutdowns can be expected to push the world economy toward a more rapid decline in output per capita. They also appear to increase the likelihood that citizens will try to overthrow their governments, once the quarantine restrictions are removed.
[3] The carrying capacity of the world today is augmented by the world’s energy supply. A major issue since 2014 is that oil prices have been too low for oil producers. The coronavirus problem is pushing oil prices even lower yet.
Strangely enough, the world economy is facing a resource shortage problem, but it manifests itself as low commodity prices and excessive wage and wealth disparity.
Most economists have not figured out that economies are, in physics terms, dissipative structures. These are self-organizing systems that grow, at least for a time. Hurricanes (powered by energy from warm water) and ecosystems (powered by sunlight) are other examples of dissipative structures. Humans are dissipative structures, as well; we are powered by the energy content of foods. Economies require energy for all of the processes that we associate with generating GDP, such as refining metals and transporting goods. Electricity is a form of energy.
Energy can be used to work around shortages of almost any kind of resource. For example, if fresh water is a problem, energy products can be used to build desalination plants. If lack of phosphate rocks is an issue for adequate fertilization, energy products can be used to extract these rocks from less accessible locations. If pollution is a problem, fossil fuels can be used to build so-called renewable energy devices such as wind turbines and solar panels, to try to reduce future CO2 pollution.
The growth in energy consumption correlates quite well with the growth of the world economy. In fact, increases in energy consumption seem to precede growth in GDP, suggesting that it is energy consumption growth that allows the growth of GDP.
Figure 3. World GDP Growth versus Energy Consumption Growth, based on data of 2018 BP Statistical Review of World Energy and GDP data in 2010$ amounts, from the World Bank.
The thing that economists tend to miss is the fact that extracting enough fossil fuels (or commodities of any type) is a two-sided price problem. Prices must be both:
- High enough for companies extracting the resources to make an after tax profit.
- Low enough for consumers to afford finished goods made with these resources.
Most economists believe that an inadequate supply of energy products will be marked by high prices. In fact, the situation seems to be almost “upside down” in a networked economy. Inadequate energy supplies seem to be marked by excessive wage and wealth disparity. This wage and wealth disparity leads to commodity prices that are too low for producers. Current WTI oil prices are about $20 per barrel, for example (Figure 4).
Figure 4. Daily spot price of West Texas Intermediate oil, based on EIA data.
The low-price commodity price issue is really an affordability problem. The many people with low wages cannot afford goods such as cars, homes with heating and air conditioning, and vacation travel. In fact, they may even have difficulty affording food. Spending by rich people does not make up for the shortfall in spending by the poor because the rich tend to spend their wealth differently. They tend to buy services such as tax planning and expensive private college educations for their children. These services require proportionately less commodity use than goods purchased by the poor.
The problem of low commodity prices becomes especially acute in countries that produce commodities for export. Producers find it difficult to pay workers adequate wages to live on. Also, governments are not able to collect enough taxes for the services workers expect, such as public transit. The combination is likely to lead to protests by citizens whenever the opportunity arises. Once shutdowns end, these countries are especially in danger of having their governments overthrown.
[4] There are limits to what governments and central banks can fix.
Governments can give citizens checks so that they have enough funds to buy groceries. This may, indeed, keep the price of food products high enough for food producers. There may still be problems with broken supply lines, so there may still be shortages of some products. For example, if there are eggs but no egg cartons, there may be no eggs for sale in grocery stores.
Central banks can act as buyers for many kinds of assets such as bonds and even shares of stock. In this way, they can perhaps keep stock market prices reasonably high. If enough gimmicks are used, perhaps they can even keep the prices of homes and farms reasonably high.
Central banks can also keep interest rates paid by governments low. In fact, interest rates can even be negative, especially for the short term. Businesses whose profitability has been reduced and workers who have been laid off are likely to discover that their credit ratings have been downgraded. This is likely to lead to higher interest costs for these borrowers, even if interest rates for the most creditworthy are kept low.
One area where governments and central banks seem to be fairly helpless is with respect to low prices for commodities used by industry, such as oil, natural gas, coal, copper and lithium. These commodities are traded internationally, so it is not just their own producers that need to be propped up; the market intervention needs to affect the entire world market.
One approach to raising world commodity prices would be to buy up large quantities of the commodities and store them somewhere. This is impractical, because no one has adequate storage for the huge quantities involved.
Another approach for raising world commodity prices would be to try to raise worldwide demand for finished goods and services. (Making more finished goods and services will use more commodities, and thus will tend to raise commodity prices.) To do this, checks would somehow need to go to the many poor people in the world, including those in India, Bangladesh and Nigeria, allowing these people to buy cars, homes, and other finished goods. Sending out checks only to people in one’s own economy would not be sufficient. It is unlikely that the US or the European Union would undertake a task such as this.
A major problem after many people have been out of work for a quite a while is the fact that many of these people will be behind on their regular payments, such as rent and car payments. They will be in no mood to buy a new vehicle or a new cell phone, simply because they have been offered a check that covers groceries and not much more. They will remain in a mode of cutting back on purchases, not adding more. Demand for most kinds of goods will remain low.
This lack of demand will make it difficult for business to have enough sales to make it profitable to reopen at the level of output that they had previously. Thus, employment and sales are likely to remain depressed even after the economy seems to be reopening. China seems to be having this problem. The Wall Street Journal reports China Is Open for Business, but the Postcoronavirus Reboot Looks Slow and Rocky. It also reports, Another Shortage in China’s Virus-Hit Economy: Jobs for College Grads.
[5] There is a significant likelihood that the COVID-19 problem is not going away, even if economies can “bend the trend line” with respect to new cases.
Bending the trend line has to do with trying to keep hospitals and medical providers from being overwhelmed. It is likely to mean that herd immunity is built up slowly, making repeat outbreaks more likely. Thus, if social isolation is stopped, COVID-19 illnesses can be expected to revisit prior locations. We know that this has been an issue in the past. The Spanish Flu epidemic came in three waves, over the years 1918-1919. The second wave was the most deadly.
A recent study by members of the Harvard School of Public Health says that the COVID-19 epidemic may appear in waves until into 2022. In fact, it could be back on a seasonal basis thereafter. It also indicates that more than one period of social distancing is likely to be required:
“A single period of social distancing will not be sufficient to prevent critical care capacities from being overwhelmed by the COVID-19 epidemic, because under any scenario considered it leaves enough of the population susceptible that a rebound in transmission after the end of the period will lead to an epidemic that exceeds this capacity.”
Thus, even if the COVID-19 problem seems to be fixed in a few weeks, it likely will be back again within a few months. With this level of uncertainty, businesses will not be willing to set up new operations. They will not hire many additional employees. The retired population will not run out and buy more tickets on cruise ships for next year. In fact, citizens are likely to continue to be worried about airplane flights being a place for transmitting illnesses, making the longer term prospects for the airline industry less optimistic.
Conclusion
The economy was already near the edge before COVID-19 hit. Wage and wealth disparity were big problems. Local populations of many areas objected to immigrants, fearing that the added population would reduce job opportunities for people who already lived there, among other things. As a result, many areas were experiencing protests because of unhappiness with the current economic situation.
The shutdowns temporarily cut back the protests, but they certainly do not fix the underlying situations. Instead, the shutdowns add to the number of people with very low wages or no income at all. The shutdowns also reduce the total quantity of goods and services available to purchase, regardless of how much money is added to the system. Many people will end up poorer, in some real sense.
As soon as the shutdowns end, it will be obvious that the world economy is in worse condition than it was before the shutdown. The longer the shutdowns last, the worse shape the world economy will be in. Thus, when businesses are restarted, we can expect even more protests and more divisive politics. Some governments may be overthrown, or they may collapse without being pushed. I fear that the world economy will be further down the road toward overall collapse.
“The sinking global economy is suffering through a colossal disinflationary shock that could briefly push it into dangerous deflation territory for the first time in decades…
““A powerful disinflationary tide is now rising,” said Joseph Lupton, global economist at JPMorgan Chase & Co.”
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/04/06/business/economy-business/world-economy-dangerous-disinflationary-shock-coronavirus/#.Xorwy8hKjIU
“The global economy is already contracting, and is losing steam faster than in the early days of the financial crisis: That’s the main takeaway from Bloomberg Economics’ new global GDP tracker. The tracker reading for March shows the global economy contracting at an annualized rate of 0.5%, down from 0.1% in February…”
[The global economy as a totality really needs to be growing at over 2.5% p/a to not be in recession]
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-06/global-gdp-tracker-shows-recession-started-in-march-chart
Things are changing so rapidly that the chart very much understates how bad things are.
I take comfort in that it is only briefly.
If I don’t look to close I won’t notice.
Like 2008.
The debt bubble keeps everything up, including commodity prices and asset prices. Once those fall, deflation looks like a likely outcome.
“The global spread of COVID-19 has had a widespread and devastating impact on the aviation industry. The aviation industry supports $2.7 trillion of the world’s GDP. This represents 3.6% of global gross domestic product, and if aviation were a country, it would rank 20th in size by GDP.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesasquith/2020/04/05/global-airline-industry-may-now-need-a-1-trillion-bailout/#223829e4274e
“…the private corporate debt market is likely to completely implode, which risks pushing a substantial number of businesses over the edge.”
https://qrius.com/corporate-debt-is-in-serious-trouble/
The image in the qrius.com article reminds me of my image of how an economy grows.
https://qrius.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/file-20200402-74895-43gchz.jpg
Aviation is an important reason why globalization can continue. Without air transport of needed just in time parts, for example, we would be in deep trouble. There is also a need for workers to collaborate. This is much more limited, when meetings must be done over the internet.
“The so-called Frugal Four, the Netherlands, Germany, Austria and Finland (or the Frugal Six, if also Denmark and Sweden are included), will claim that every EU member state is responsible for its own borrowing and that prudent “Northerners” should not have to pay for profligate “Southerners”.”
https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-news/eu-affairs/104932/the-frugal-four-repeats-the-same-policy-as-in-the-previous-financial-crisis/
“[Spain’s] Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez has urged the EU 27 to issue so-called “corona bonds,” which would share the financial burden caused by COVID-19 across all member states.
“But the more frugal northern countries, including the Netherlands and Germany, argue against the move.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/pascaledavies/2020/04/05/coronavirus-threatens-spain-with-new-economic-crisis/#31d73ceb1893
“Something else is spreading virally across Europe. Anti-EU sentiment is surging in Italy, and Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte warned Brussels that if it mismanages this crisis, the EU will lose its entire reason for existing…
“The eurozone, and perhaps the EU itself, could be one of COVID-19’s victims.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/will-coronavirus-take-down-the-eurozone-and-eu
“The question that regulators and central bankers are asking themselves now is whether the measures they took in recent years to crisis-proof the [EU’s] banking system will be enough to prevent a credit crunch, bank failures and a financial meltdown with global ramifications.”
https://www.firstpost.com/business/coronavirus-outbreak-european-banks-are-well-prepared-for-a-crisis-just-not-this-particular-one-8231581.html
No country wants to bail out other countries!
Well then, no nice safe, sunny, holiday destinations in Spain and the South for them – or due they anticipate it being dirt-cheap from now, a la Greece?
On the other hand, in a way they are quite right to give the dirty grasping dagos the finger, as they are generally hated and only valued for their money.
‘To smell like a German’ is proverbial, and it’s not a compliment, (too clean and deodorized, not garlicky enough!).
“With some governments saying they’re unable to offer direct support, the fate of Africa’s large informal sector could be a powerful example of what experts predict will be unprecedented damage to economies in the developing world. Among the millions made jobless are casual laborers, petty traders, street vendors, mechanics, taxi operators and conductors, housekeepers and waitresses, and dealers in everything from used clothes to construction hardware.
“Unless the virus’ spread can be controlled, up to 50% of all projected job growth in Africa will be lost as aviation, services, exports, mining, agriculture and the informal sector all take a hit, Eziakonwa said.
“”We will see a complete collapse of economies and livelihoods. Livelihoods will be wiped out in a way we have never seen before,” she warned.”
https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/complete-collapse-economies-ahead-africa-faces-virus-69982974
“As the coronavirus crisis deepens in emerging economies around the world, collapsing currencies, commodity prices, export earnings and tourism revenues threaten to shred the finances of many governments, leaving them scrambling to avoid default….
“The plunge in most emerging market currencies against the dollar has sharply increased the cost of servicing hard-currency debts, creating a serious threat to financially weaker states.”
https://www.ft.com/content/e3634816-66bd-4355-bc71-156016761dab
“Fourteen Latin American and Caribbean countries have requested urgent help from the IMF as the region braces ifor its worst recession in 50 years, according to a senior Fund official.
“Alejandro Werner, head of the western hemisphere department, told the FT that Latin America was particularly exposed to the impact of the coronavirus crisis because many of its economies were struggling even before they were hit with multiple shocks from weaker commodity values, the oil price crash and capital flight.”
https://www.ft.com/content/dfd1aeed-6d56-466a-be6c-7bb73fc8da23
Isn’t this tragic: Africa is young, very young, and most of them would surely not die from COVID?
If it took out the weak, and above all the vast numbers of those with AIDS which is a staggering figure in many regions, it would surely be a blessing in a way – ending their lives and the chance of infecting others.
The real danger would be the loss of enough workers to get in the harvests if enough were off sick at that time of year.
I would have thought that if any people would know how to cope with disruption it would be the poor of Africa, they are very resourceful of necessity.
“up to 50% of all projected job growth in Africa will be lost”
50% of GROWTH lost?
DJ, that caught my eye, too. A bizarre under-estimation of the probable fall-out or an editorial error? Not sure.
Without jobs, Africa will have a starvation issue, I am afraid!
This is what is know as a Sh It Show of epic proportions…. what do you do when almost everyone refuses (can’t) pay the rent? Well…. apparently you sue them … suing a stone for water…. won’t work very well
https://wolfstreet.com/2020/04/05/lockdown-hits-uk-commercial-real-estate-retail-landlords-their-investors-most-property-mutual-funds-suddenly-gated/
Extend and pretend (that they can pay in the future) was used in the past. I suppose it can be used again, but for how long. Before, it applied more to the sale price. I expect that would be depressed as well.
How do you sue them when the courts are closed?
My BIL, a lawyer in CT, USA, said criminal courts are open, but they are not taking up civil cases. A Canadian blog commenter said their local housing court was closed, so evictions are suspended.
Someone send the no masks memo to the Czech Republic, apparently the sewing circles over there has stitched amok with the Singers.
https://youtu.be/jZtEX2-n2Hc
For some humour, can we all at one time press CTRL-Z or CMD-Z (on Mac) to undo this nightmare?
The virus is real. It is between flu and Ebola in terms of how lethal it is but the hysteria is off the chart, fueled by social media and MSM.
However, we have passed the event horizon for an UNDO. Perhaps if we all UNNDO together all at once, maybe it will work and we will wake up from this nightmare.
CTG – it is indeed real. It’s the flu.
Two years ago 650,000 people died from the flu globally (CDC website) — so far 69,000 have died from Woohan.
Did the world collapse in 2018? Did we lock everything down (and cause it to collapse)?
Bolsonaro has taken flack over his “It’s better to die on your feet than on your knees” — and I initially thought it was ridiculous… but he may have a point.
I know for a fact I am out of business if HK locks down (as are thousands upon thousands of other businesses in the city). I have planned for this so I won’t starve.
But I prefer to go down fighting… locking down means I am shackled and locked in a box… I cannot fight under those conditions.
So…..
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_C0Rt0pb-l1E/S_gO8NkR7TI/AAAAAAAAABs/soY7JJwIN70/old-time-rock-n-roll.jpg
Estimated 25,000 people died prematurely per annum in the UK due to diesel pollution, and no one turned a hair for years. Tens of thousands of the elderly every year due to lack of proper heating,a nd so on.
Even when it hit the MSM and was generally acknowledged, nothing happened – and yet we are crashing the global economy for this?
On pollution, the clarity of sky these dayz is unreal, the colors on anything in distance, sky, stars, everything, This is like teleportation & time machine many centuries into the past..
It sounds like another day in BAU of north Sweden. Stars flickering and the aurora borealis plasma sheaths dancing in the sky as it always has and always will.
https://www.kirunaaurora.com/images/s2dlogo.jpg
Sweden is doing a whole lot like other countries are doing. Cities are affected much sooner than outlying areas.
World, yes the air and sky are unique. I do not every remember them this clear, clean, beautiful. The sunshine is intense and warm. Please never bring back the massive air pollution from plane and cars.
It must be very polluted where you are, no change here at all!
Blue sky, hot sun, but that is quite normal – and it is still heavily polluted with micro-particles causing asthma.
China was in bad shape at the time, because its coal production had been flat since 2012-2013, hampering growth in industry.
Shutting in industry looked like a good idea, especially since they suspected it might be an escaped virus that was more virulent than most. Also, they didn’t realize how difficult it would be to detect. The shut-in economy deflected concern away from how badly the economy was doing.
All over the world, there is an unintended consequence. In Malaysia, only public hospitals are allowed to treat COVID-19. Private hospitals are not doing it. However, since there are no medical tourist (we have a lot from Indonesia) as there are no flights, locals are all staying safe at home and all unnecessary procedures are not required anymore. People under quarantine are not interested to go to hospital unless it is absolutely critical. So, the local private hospitals are all suffering.
Is that the same reason why it is happening in USA which FE is trying to show?
‘People under quarantine are not interested to go to hospital unless it is absolutely critical.’
Possibly the same in the US…. but the problem is the MSM is screeching endlessly about huge queues at the hospitals.
They are even using the word ‘apocalyptic’ … I see no … apocalypse…. I see empty parking lots….
13 Deaths in a Day: An ‘Apocalyptic’ Coronavirus Surge at an N.Y.C. (New York Times)
Wake me up when the US hits 61,000 deaths… cuz that’s what they hit in 2018.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/n9H9cS7tDVA/maxresdefault.jpg
They are certainly excelling themselves: ‘it’s a war zone’; horrifying surge’; ‘entering the week from Hell’. Laughable.
Meanwhile, Her Maj, – God Bless Her – has asked the British people to get the Blitz Spirit and show how tough we are by sitting on our backsides, having barbecues and getting beaten up by the wife (well, I suspect that is what is happening here, looking at the size and weight of the local women).
It would greatly help my Blitz Spirit if the spitfire which always appears here when the sun shines were still flying overhead, but it too seems to have been grounded.
The UK government has announced it will cement up the Channel Tunnel in order to keep out COVID-19. That’s a shame, as I had decided to teach myself French during self-isolation. In honour of our French cousins, I will post a French sentence to learn and a French song.
French phrase of the day: J’ai acheté un coup de grâce – I bought a lawn mower.
Now for the song. It’s “Blonde” by Guesch Patti.
“J’ai acheté un coup de grâce – I bought a lawn mower.”
What?! A lawn mower is a “tondeuse à gazon”. “coup de grâce” means knockout blow, or literally “mercy blow”, the final blow that kills the wounded enemy for mercy. Grâce is mercy in old French.
Malcopian is fighting hard for the title of greatest OFW joker.
In french: Malcopian aime ses frites avec sauce à l’oignon.
The virus drives you all insane
Oh yes : coupe grass! Very twisted
This is bizarre! I am sure a lot of needed goods, including food, pass through the tunnel.
Do you have a link!
A google search does not show that happening, it is a joke most likely, slow news day for someone.
Dennis L.
‘This is bizarre! I am sure a lot of needed goods, including food, pass through the tunnel.’
My apologies, Gail. It’s one of my Brexit jokes. I didn’t expect you’d be taken in, but we live in such bizarre times of populist nationalism and wacky measures that I can hardly blame you. Apparently there was a meme going round in the UK that the government were building a fence round London during lockdown – and of course, some believed it!
One of my jokes is to tell Scots Nationalists online that the Scots should be taxed for speaking English – it’s only fair. 😉 I usually get called some very rude names.
Hey – could it be that the US hospitals are lock down?
This one looks just like what it looked like in Queenstown when I drove through the other day… eerily quiet…
https://twitter.com/i/status/1245644324122980353
Or maybe these are all —- ABANDONED hospitals?
I was supposed to have a minor procedure at a hospital it had to be re-scheduled until after CVV19. At hospital were family member works still super quiet. Still maybe one case but not actually tested.
Maybe just a test test of absolute arbitrary authority to test that there is indeed no legal system no political system, no brave souls, no means of communications.
https://www.breitbart.com/news/better-die-of-this-disease-than-starve-angolans-defy-virus-lockdown/
freedom!
Another reason the lockdown cannot work.
1. We will end up with mass starvation or people will riot and there will be blood baths in countries like this
2. No matter what we do we cannot eliminate the Woohan… so we need to remain in lockdown forever. Otherwise the virus comes back.
Fauci (the Colin Powell of our time) …. read my lips — it is NOT possible to eliminate a virus with a lockdown. So why would you bother trying when you KNOW that it will resurface the moment a lockdown is pulled.
Are you trying to starve FE Fauci if prikkkk? Am I asking for too much when I beg you for some Fentanyl?
Do the right thing mate. Take care of Fast….
Fauci is hopelessly compromised with conflict of interest. With numerous monetary and professional ties to Bill Gates and his vaccine pushing foundation Fauci should immediately be replaced by President Trump. This is why Fauci was against trials of the anti malarial drug.
Fauci has revealed himself as essentially a globalist tool of Gates in implementing the vision of a globalist vaccination/tracking/control of the world population, and devastating economies to do so.
can’t decide if this is an ant-vax comment
it seems to be–Gates wants to control world population and so on—and on–and on. Too silly to comment on really. The moon hoaxers are fundamentally harmless and i dismiss them accordingly. but anti vaxxers are a menace to society–and it’s not silly.
vaccination has shown itself to be effective at controlling diseases for 200 years.
Ahhhhhh—the pointy fingers are raised–“but can you PROVE there’s no cabal of billionaires controlling our brains from a bunker in the wilds of Montana?”
“Well—no I can’t”
“Well—there you are then–that proves our brains ARE being controlled through the effects of vaccinations we had when we were kids” (such are the essential arguments in all this rubbish) Billl Gates wants your kid’s brain!!! He’s vaccinating Africa—he must want to control africa through his PC.
Stop vaccinations!!!
And the unthinkers do just that.
Don’t people ever stop and read the stuff they write? (yes I do—and delete lots as idiotic)
Equally—“can you PROVE there wasn’t a secret MGM studio concocting fake moon landings?”
“well no I can’t”—-Ahhhhhh—that’s more PROOF then. NP is spouting nonsense as usual.
logic becomes illogical in some Orwellian way.
Does no one recognise that the same anti vaxxers and moon hoaxers are filling the same vacant thought spaces as the evangelical preacher-ranters? They too latch on to people who (for some reason) delegate their rational thinking to others who gladly do it for them, and deliver ready made conclusions which have no bearing in reality.
You see it in the faces of those standing behind the Don, listening to rambling incoherence that defies credibity. You see it in the face of evil in Kenneth Copeland. (freeze frame that guy sometime for really scary bits.
He rants about the devil—and no wonder)You see it in that weird Paula White woman who dances up and down the stages pronouncing that she is Jesus personified.
Before her it was Bachmann etc. All telling people what and how to think
when dangerous anti vaxxers start their hysterical nonsense, groups of equally gullible people stop vaccinating their kids, and they start to die. This creates infection groups who in themselves are a danger to everyone else
One look at the list of ingredients that go into a vaccine and there was not a chance my children were ever going to get a single shot. ‘First do no harm’. What a joke. Any doctor that administers a vaccine should immediately be struck off. Quite apart from whether the health benefit a vaccine confers is greater than the harm it does, I also believe in survival of the fittest, including for myself and my children, and I don’t approve of how medical research is carried out by experimenting on innocent animals. The way in which vaccines are developed is enough in itself to ensure I would never be vaccinated against anything.
What’s with the argument that children who haven’t been vaccinated are a threat to other children? Makes no sense at all. If the other children have been vaccinated then why don’t they have immunity? If some other children can’t be vaccinated because they have an underlying health condition, this just proves vaccines are harmful. I wouldn’t risk harm to my children to protect other people’s children in any case.
https://www.bitchute.com/video/AEPKoCE2uueR/
Ask the parents whose children have been damaged by vaccines who the gullible ones are.
fair enough
our mutual offspring are unlikely to come into contact with one another but do check out what Rubella does to an unborn child sometime, just as a ‘for instance’.
part of the routine MMR vaccine program here in UK. which has gone on for several generations without hysteria. Apart from a few idiots who would say an ingrowing toenail is part of a guvmint conspiracy.
let’s hope the ‘survival of the fittest’ works if it ever hits you and yours.. Decide then what to do with a blind and /or disabled child. Somehow I doubt if ‘survival of the fittest’ will mean much.
Most kids get born Ok—a tiny proportion aren’t. Screaming ‘vaccination’ is a natural outlet for the anger about chance. My eldest was born perfect and beautiful–a friend was in the same hospital at the same time—her baby was born blind, disabled and never came home. We cried for her mischance. but Nobody was ‘to blame’.
the rest of it just isn’t worth going into here—the wrong place with the wrong mindset
This is why parents used to have three day measles (Rubella) parties, especially for their daughters. If one child had it, they wanted to pass it around as much as possible, so it wouldn’t be a problem later.
As a parent of a child (now adult) with autism, I saw a fair number of anti vaccine movies and other material, over the years. It is frightening that children come home from the hospital and seem to be fine. Later, about the time they get some of their vaccine shots, some seem to develop problems. Autism seems to be much more common now, as children are administered more vaccines. There is a huge amount of solidarity of the medical community, saying, no, it couldn’t possibly be the mercury that we put in the vaccines.
After all of the activism by parents of autistic children, the medical community has moved away from the thimerosal in vaccines. There would be a clear liability problem if medical community would publish a study showing that thimerosal is even a partial cause of autism.
Gail
Do you think vaccines were to blame for your child’s autism? With so many pollutants in the air and food, you can never know for sure.
Norman
This creates infection groups who in themselves are a danger to everyone else
If you hadn’t tried to take the moral high ground with this statement, I wouldn’t have commented. If the unvaccinated are a danger to themselves and other unvaccinated then fine, they deserve what they get. However, you are suggesting that the unvaccinated are a danger to the vaccinated. How can this be? Do the unvaccinated go on a zombie rampage attacking the vaccinated if they catch the disease? Or do vaccines not work, so that the vaccinated are still susceptible to catch the disease?
There should be a vaccine that protects against infection of the MSM… its a disease that rots the brain
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/04/04/donald-trump-thinking-of-2nd-coronavirus-task-force-focused-on-reopening-country/
“We have to open our country,” Trump said, repeating that “the cure cannot be worse than the problem itself.”
of course his hotel etc businesses are collapsing…
motivation…
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_1FrrEj7ul8/maxresdefault.jpg
I am glad that Trump has some sense!
Dr Fauci is a deep stater with “deep” links to the Bill Gates foundation and to Gates funded vaccine companies. Hence his resistance to a common drug that might alleviate COVID symptoms. Enquiring minds would like to know if he has stock in his vaccine company and thus has vested conflicting monetary interests, or, if not monetary, just the run of the mill professional conflicts of interest.
motivation…
https://news.trust.org/item/20200404235657-jkjit
“Mainland China sees rise in new coronavirus cases…”
“… Beijing remains unable to completely halt new infections despite imposing some of the most drastic measures to curb the virus’ spread.”
“China remains worried about second wave of infections…”
second wave?
what is that?
is that some new theory?
As we can see from that Lock Downs cause collapses… they are du m b.
https://www.ctvscifi.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/resistanceBlog-1-1200×675.jpg
Perhaps it’s the feature of the specific haplotype strain of the disease for Chinese pop. And it seems as powerful trait hardwired in such fashion it doesn’t want to naturally mutate out of it quickly enough on its own. Also we are likely still very early “burning” into it as only ~5months since the outbreak.. so it’s returning and sloshing around.
I would say 8 months into the pandemic. Exponential growth passes under the radar for a long time. And then *boom*.
Except that the flu’s growth rate really isn’t exponential, especially with facial masks and social distancing.
If we believe the data from the Worldometers, the number of newly reported cases and newly reported deaths is down, in the last couple of days.
If we believe this information, the peak reported new cases outside of China occurred on April 3, and April 4 and April 5 take steps down from there. I expect that the April 5 number is not final, and may increase as more information is available. The peak in reported deaths occurred on April 2, and has been down from then.
Yes, with home made face masks it probably will slow down substantially. With N95’s and reasonable social distancing it’ll be over before it even started.
Am I the only one getting ready for a new fashion trend. It will be the latest craze in a couple of weeks. Custom made face masks with N95 inserts. Watch it unfold in real time.
https://raven.contrado.com/resources/images/2020-3/145555/personalised-fashion-face-mask-for-women-869721_l.jpg
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8189153/Coronavirus-peak-death-rate-strike-U-S-11-days-2-644-people-die-24-hours.html
“Coronavirus peak death rate will strike U.S. in 11 days when 2,644 people will die in 24 hours…”
“It shows New York – the epicenter of the outbreak in the US – will reach its peak in five days with 855 deaths…”
“Researchers also warn 100,000 Americans will die by August 4…”
so says the new model…
for a comparison, the most deaths in one day in a bad USA flu season is about 500…
a direct comparison:
2,664 in one day to 500 in one day…
it ain’t gonna take a mathematician to see… to see…
When do we break the 2018 record of 61,000 deaths?
The hospital situation in the US reminds me of this
https://youtu.be/LCfmi5C40D4
https://twitter.com/i/status/1246599826499702785
https://twitter.com/i/status/1246596132102258688
https://twitter.com/i/status/1244402262883041281
This guy is one of the most well informed Americans I have ever heard. God Bless him.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/money/spanish-government-aims-to-roll-out-basic-income-e2-80-98soon-e2-80-99/ar-BB12cizT
“The Spanish government is working to roll out a universal basic income as soon as possible…”
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/06/coronavirus-latest-updates.html
“Japan Prime Minister Shinzo Abe plans to declare a state of emergency over the coronavirus outbreak in the country, the Japan Times reported, citing a government official.
A surge in infections has swept Tokyo and other major cities and Abe’s move could come as early as Tuesday…”
“Australia’s daily infection growth rate has fallen — from about 25% and 30%, down to around 5% — as more people self-isolate…”
That’s great – but they need to get to 0. And even then they cannot allow anyone from other countries in ….
So breaking out the Champagne if they can get this to 0 … is premature…
Australia.. it’s an island… but it’s not an island
NZ is in very strict quarantine … 60-80 cases per day in spite of that
Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced the total number of flu cases in New York State has eclipsed the record number of seasonal cases since the New York State Department of Health began tracking flu cases during the 1998-99 season.
The latest influenza surveillance report for the week ending February 22 shows 131,604 laboratory-confirmed cases so far this season.
Previously, the most lab-confirmed influenza cases reported during a single flu season was 128,892 in 2017-18.
While this year’s flu season has reached historic levels, last week, the number of laboratory-confirmed flu cases decreased 26 percent and hospitalizations decreased 13 percent.
https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-record-breaking-total-number-flu-cases-new-york-even-number-flu-cases
Yes – this is a very bad flu season — but keep in mind those numbers are not all Wuhan Flu … they are ALL types of Flu.
Did the US lock down in 2018?
Nope.
thank you, FE…
I agree… this virus is worse than 2017/2018…
and the lockdown is stooooopid… (not sarc)…
That is strange, I agree.
Looks like we’re stuck with Fast Eddy, guys.
https://time.com/5815035/us-state-department-passports-stop/
these are tough times indeed… 😉
Actually looking at the State Dept website, it looks like if you’re eligible to renew by mail, you can still do that. It does not require appearing at an acceptance facility. You just can’t get expedited service.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/05/oil-drops-9percent-following-a-record-surge-last-week-as-opec-meeting-on-a-production-cut-is-delayed.html
“Oil prices dropped during overnight trading on Sunday after OPEC+ announced it was delaying its meeting initially scheduled for Monday, stoking fears on the Street that a production cut might face hurdles.”
holey cow! “might face hurdles”…
here’s a hurdle for them:
no country will willingly cut their production in half…
but that is what the world oil demand is “demanding”…
all the OPEC+ members know the real numbers…
so they will ALL be forced to cut by half…
THAT is what the delayed meeting is all about…
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/05/trump-could-impose-very-substantial-oil-tariffs.html
“Trump said he thought Saudi Arabia and Russia would ultimately agree on production levels because low prices are “obviously very bad for them.”…”
obviously Trump doesn’t get it…
tonight to honor Italy again:
Guidance from Dr. Schwartz of the CDC regarding COVID 19 death certification 3/24/2020. It is not necessary to test for COVID 19 and may it be assumed as the cause of death.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-introduced-for-COVID-19-deaths.pdf
This is a good move, IMO. Test results are still terribly unreliable.
In order to get reliable ratios of deaths to number of infections, a person really has to look at deaths compared to total number of people that have antibodies to COVID-19, because we really don’t know what the base is without antibody studies.
Just received this from a friend (in USA)
George Conway:
“For Trump supporters, let me make one thing VERY clear!
For the record NO ONE is blaming the President for the virus. Let me repeat. Coronavirus is not Trump’s fault.
Here’s a detailed list of what we are blaming him for:
* Trump declined to use the World Health Organization’s test like other nations. Back in January, over a month before the first Co-vid19 case, the Chinese posted a new mysterious virus and within a week, Berlin virologists had produced the first diagnostic test. By the end of February, the WHO had shipped out tests to 60 countries. Oh, but not our government. We declined the test even as a temporary bridge until the CDC could create its own test. The question is why? We don’t know but what to look for is which pharmaceutical company eventually manufactures the test and who owns the stock. Keep tuned.
* In 2018 Trump fired Homeland Security Advisor Tom Bossart, whose job was to coordinate a response to global pandemics. He was not replaced.
* In 2018 Dr. Luciana Borio, the NSC director for medical and bio-defense preparedness left the job. Trump did not replace Dr. Borio.
* In 2019 the NSC’s Senior Director for Global Health Security and bio-defense, Tim Ziemer, left the position and Trump did not replace the Rear Admiral.
* Trump shut down the entire Global Health Security and Bio-defense agency. Yes, he did.
* Amid the explosive worldwide outbreak of the virus Trump proposed a 19% cut to the budget of the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention plus a 10% cut to Public Health Services and a 7% cut to Global Health Services. Those happen to be the organizations that respond to public health threats.
* In 2018, at Trump’s direction, the CDC stopped funding epidemic prevention activities in 39 out of 49 countries including China.
* Trump didn’t appoint a doctor to oversee the US response to the pandemic. He appointed Mike Pence.
* Trump has on multiple occasions sowed doubt about the severity of the virus even using the word hoax at events and rallies. He even did it at an event where the virus was being spread. Trump has put out zero useful information concerning the health risks of the virus.
* Trump pretended the virus had been contained.
* Trump left a cruise ship at sea for days, denying them proper hospital care, rather than increase his numbers in America.
Repeat. We do not blame Trump for the virus. We blame him for gutting the nation’s preparations to deal with it. We blame him for bungling testing and allowing it to spread uninhibited. We blame him for wasting taxpayer money on applause lines at his rallies (like The Wall). We blame him for putting his own political life over American human life. I hope this clears things up.”
This is why the U.S. has the highest number of cases on the planet!!!
Wow Conway just destroyed President Q*Bert!!
Btw, would love be a fly on the wall at that guy’s house…would be curious what the vibe is like between him and his wife….how awkward lol
George Conway is a lawyer. His knowledge of viruses, epidemics, and health treatments is zero. But he is very good at telling lies about Trump, and has been doing so for years.
Gosh, I never realized what an evil man Trump was.
I have a funny story….my wife’s britsh brother in the UK messaged her about a totally unrelated family issue, then…at the end of the message he puts…”BTW, don’t believe Trump on anything. He is not taking this virus seriously.”
Queue laughter…
I have a mate who runs 24/7 Trump hate…. he can’t let it go.
I think he thinks I like Trump — so I sent him that UK take-down…. he must have been SO Happy… for about 12 hours…
Because I then followed with something very similar to the hate message I posted here re the Clintons mocking Obama for his 1.2M banking payday after coming out of office for 3 speeches… he’s riding the gravy train.
Yet people continue to vote …
http://krapps.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/LadyHuhFINAL.jpg
Let me show you your future:
We have two kids from a Philippine village with us – so have on the ground info on what is happening there.
In their village (and many villages) people are in lockdown. They cannot work. They have minimal or no savings. They live hand to mouth.
The government is distributing pitiful amounts of rice (M Fast and Fast Eddy have purchased quite a few large sacks of rice for the kids village because the people are in serious trouble)
Many people are at the end of their rope after only a few short weeks in lockdown — they have run out of food and cash —- and are attempting to break curfew and try to get back to work.
They are met by the military who are forcing them back into their homes at gunpoint.
It does not take a rocket science to work out what will happen to them as this lockdown continues (and how can it not continue… cuz you CANNOT stop the flu)…. they will starve.
Absolutely 100% guaranteed people will starve.
Same goes for India — hundreds of millions are being forced to return to their villages and lock down … they don’t even have enough food for the journey….
They too will be forced off the streets and into their hovels…. if they dare try to push back… they will be shot.
Oh look – https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/man-shot-dead-philippines-flouting-coronavirus-rules-200405072915819.html
Countries are rolling out hotlines and websites to report ‘covidiots’…. how much you wanna bet that as things descend into the depths of hell… and people try to break lockdowns in OECD countries…. that the military/police will end up shooting some of them….
And not only that — their neigbhours will be cheering on the killers.
The joke will be on them — it won’t be so funny when they are at their last can of soup and realize that they are trapped in their prison — and the government is not delivering the promised care package.
Alas… starvation is apparently not so bad…. (but can we get some Fentanyl…. PLEASE!)
Ceasing Food and Fluid Can Be Painless
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-mar-23-sci-schiavodeath23-story.html
Starvation in the poor countries of the world, especially, is a real concern.
I cannot imagine anyone considering locking down India for a month. This can only lead to disaster. It is too close to the edge, already.
You are a good man, Fast.
So let me get this straight. We aren’t testing enough humans to be sure of where this virus is but we got spare tests for tigers? This seems absolutely ridiculous, like something off the Tiger King. I almost think a wacky conspiracy theory play here seems plausible like someone thinks it will be trendy. “Hey Steve, make sure the tigers start having Covid19 on Sunday and throw a couple of gorillas get it too for good measure so we stir people into a frenzy.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52177586
A lot of primates can catch COVID-19 according to articles. Gorillas and other primates are definitely on the list. I don’t think masks are going to work well for these primates.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/05/us/tiger-coronavirus-new-york-trnd/index.html
Welp this is it!
A TIGER in New York has just tested positive for CORONA VIRUS LMAO!!!
YOU STILL BELIEVE THAT THIS IS REAL??
YOU ARE ALL SLAVES!!!
When will you all wake up to your reality?
I blame Carole Baskin.
The academic reports seemed to indicate that there was a very wide range of animals that could catch this virus. If a tiger had someone feeding it who was COVID-19 positive, it could infect the tiger, just as it infects house cats.
And then we have a single video repeated that show ‘dead bodies’ all over the place… no idea where they were taken and i doubt they’d just toss bodies like that all over the place… they dont even look like bodies
https://twitter.com/i/status/1245253014920757248
Considering my wife’s aunty just passed away from this virus in the UK, I’m saying you are wrong again. The virus is real! A fit and spritely 80YO, this woman had never had bad health.
She went to hospital but there was nothing they could do for her, no ventilators available. Now the family cannot have a proper funeral.
You can believe whatever you like, it doesn’t make it real.
This is a real disease ki lling people.
This is perfect evidence of the “System” you know when an event like 9/11, Sandy Hook, etc. happens and there is always someone who pops out of nowhere and says “I KNOW SOMEONE WHO DIED, THEY WERE MY (Blank) Relative!
More evidence that this event is a MASSIVE FALSE FLAG!
I AM CALLING IT RIGHT NOW 7:45 PM EST. CORONA VIRUS IS A FALSE FLAG!
(Sigh) Like I said, people who believe in one c-o-n-s-p-i-r-a-cy theory usually end up believing in others too. Not that there aren’t conspiracies in real life, but come on–you can’t let yourself be guided by the Peanut Gallery.
People believe whatever they want to believe, and only look for evidence that backs their current belief.
Some of the con.spiracy theories are just so unbelievable because of the tens of thousands that would need to be in on it. Even governments trying to do some minor things secretly, often get leaked, with embarrassment all around.
I also have an acquaintance that believes in just about every con.spiracy around until I show him enough evidence that his belief is wrong. Of course by the next time I talk to him, he’s back on the con.spiracy theme agian, even the debunked ones. Never any evidence, just that someone (important to him) told him it must be true.
I’m into science backed evidence of everything, plus Occam’s Razor, until proven otherwise.
Z, with a virus that is taking lives all over the world, it is harder to believe that people posting on this site would not be affected in some way, just on the laws of averages. Wait a week or 2 and you will in all probability find that I’m not alone in having someone close infected and/or worse.
Great post!!!!
“I’m into science backed evidence of everything, plus Occam’s Razor”
+++++++++
There is a worldwide conspiracy to spread conspiracy theories. It is run by the grey lizards from Epsilon Eridani, because when they finally invade the reports will be dismissed as conspiracy theories. And by the way, they are highly resistant to radiation, so now you know who *really* went on those Apollo missions.
Your are very correct, enough of these irresponsible nutters.
As independent gov scientists rightly commented and explained in colorful detail recently on the nightly show to our popular comedian, the recent studies had clearly shown that just to terminate single individual as in theoretical political assassination, would require massive deployment of large array of resources, specifically upto 750,000 individual people would be needed to pull it off according to collected data, starting from the neighborhood milkman to the taxi driver, and also local city councilor for public toilet facilities among other key personnel in the know.
Also as nicely summarized in recent documentary, it has been standard procedure for construction and demolition services to use small office fires for affordable and timely demise of compromised steel structure buildings reaching dangerous lifespan of twenty years of age, as using other devices and methods is deemed highly dangerous in highly urbanized areas.
/sarc and f. off
I present the ONE… the ONLY (out of hundreds of thousands of NSA employees)…..
https://ethereumworldnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/maxresdefault-2.jpg
Maybe they should have paid Edward more… he might have done like all the other NSA employees and kept their mouths shut.
Not only do you lose a cushy job if you open your fat hole…. you can find it VERY difficult to find another job (employers are not so keen on hiring someone who’s got that kind of background)
And another big deterrent is that you might end up like Chelsea Manning :
http://www.freakingnews.com/pictures/111000/Chelsea-Manning-111290.jpg
It might seem hard to keep a secret… but really … it’s not….
“(Sigh)”…
thank you, biedawei…
Nobody is saying it is NOT real.
It is a flu.
And in 2017/18…. 61,000 people died from the FLU .. in the United States alone. There was nothing that could be done for them either.
What part of this don’t you get????
And stop misrepresenting what I and others are saying — the Wuhan Virus exists. It is a flu. It is making many people sick – some are dying. And like ALL flu, it can be passed when you don’t show symptoms
It is….. just another flu.
China would not have locked down Wuhan if it was just an average flu…
it’s obviously far worse than an average flu…
these two realities can and do exist together:
1. it’s way worse than flu…
2. the governments of the world are still overreacting to it, even though #1 is true…
come on, we’re not ennemies…
we can discuss the death totals later this year when we have much better info…
for now, it’s on pace to exceed 2017/18 flu deaths, and that’s even with the (unreasonable) lockdowns…
oh yeah, but if the economy collapses and there are riots and vyolence everywhere in an attempt to get food, then perhaps we won’t be able to discuss it later this year…
and…
on the topic of riots:
this virus wasn’t invented to keep 2019 rioters down…
it will bring much more rioting later this year…
Yes I am told it is worse. Over and over and over again.
1. The normal flu kills 650k people per year. The Woohan has killed 69,000 so far (3+ months in)
2. The normal flu can damage your lungs – just like the Woohan flu
3. The normal flu can be passed without symptoms – just like the Woohan flu
Seems very similar to me … can you enlighten me on the differences?
Perhaps you can find another talking point in the MSM that I have not found or attempted to debunk yet….
If you can find some more then I will be happy to handle the investigation.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/8a39577cf3614d0212cff3745de579d4/tumblr_n7f95sG8OH1td2lvuo1_500.gif
“This is a real disease ki lling people.”
thank you, Hide-away…
from the beginning, with the Chinese reaction to it (lockdown of Wuhan) we have know it is way worse than just flu…
You don’t just lockdown 60M people for the fun of it like they did in Hubei, nor do you bother to build a large hospital in 6-8 days, nor do you mobilise 40,000 Health care workers into a region for “just the flu”.
It seems we even have people here that don’t understand this virus.
Our modern interconnected world is not set up to deal with a deadly pandemic like the coronavirus, and governments everywhere have struggled with how to deal with it.
The economic system we have would take a huge hit no matter what governments do. Those that think BAU could have continued with a crisis in the health care system going on around them, have not thought through what people would actually do.
In this country (Australia), businesses like restaurants were already having greatly reduced patronage before any social restrictions were mandated. Likewise for ‘working from home’ for large businesses. Public transport use had fallen off a cliff, likewise for cinemas etc.
People were changing behavior before the government told people they had to. Imagine what people would have done if the government did nothing. Luckily we seem to have a couple of examples in Sweden and Brazil (and Equador), however when the numbers start to get too high, governments seem to react with lockdown (because it looked like working in Wuhan), so the theory of just try and keep BAU going is moot anyway.
This is just something new that the world is not prepared for, so down the slippery slope of depression and or coll.apse we go. What we get to see is how resilient the system really is. At this point I think we all hope that it is more resilient than we have discussed over the years.
a very good summary… thanks…
we can hope for resilience…
Just because 60m were locked down meant there was a credible threat.Keep drinking the Kool-Aid and believe everything in the media is true. They would never lie to Mr. Hide-Away. They respect Mr. Hide-Away’s intelligence too much to do that.
Notice how Islamic terrorism is no longer considered a threat, nineteen years after 9/11. Is it because violent intimidation in the Middle East is working?
“It seems we even have people here that don’t understand this virus.”
I think it’s (not smart) people like you who consume mainstream media and think they know something.
Here’s the situation. The experts and leaders know almost nothing about the virus.
None of the current policies in place amount to anything that will defeat the virus.
Does social distancing by itself do anything to control the virus in urban areas?
It doesn’t matter if people stay in their homes. The population density is still too high. The v will NEVER run out of hosts with that many humans living closely together.
Here’s the other thing, we need a functional economy to provide us with the medical goods to even do what we are doing now. Shortages of medical goods are becoming a problem in areas not being inundated with corona patients. In areas not being inundated with corona patients, hospitals are turning people away with minor ailments that may become serious if not treated. The current policies make the medical establishment and politicians look good in the short term. In the long-term, many governments , outside of China, will have a hard time providing hospitals with medical good, along with food, clothing and many other things because the government cannot provide those things.
Telling me we can have a lockdown until we can control this is like telling a sick person not to eat until they are no longer sick. A decrease in food intake happens naturally during illness, but if the decrease happens for too long, the body grows weaker and will have a harder time fighting off any pathogens.
Good analogy:
Hospitals Overwhelmed by Flu Patients Are Treating Them in Tents
https://time.com/5107984/hospitals-handling-burden-flu-patients/
Check the date of that article .. it’s not 2020…..
And because America had 650k flu hospitalizations during the pandemic… I doubt there were videos of empty tents and hospitals.
Please can you show me how the Wuhan is difference from any other flu?
Please do not give me more of Fauci lies such as ‘it can be passed without an infected person having any symptoms’ The CDC site indicates that all flu can be passed while asymptomatic.
Seriously. This is the question I have asked multiple people outside of OFW. And they are unable to answer.
I also ask them why Fauci would be telling that lie. He knows very well that this is a lie.
No response.
Well unless Fauci is actually dead — he was a bozo with a 60 IQ who had the same name — and he was mistaken for the real Dr Fauci — and is now running the Big Show?
https://static.rogerebert.com/uploads/review/primary_image/reviews/great-movie-being-there-1979/hero_EB19970525REVIEWS08401010303AR.jpg
Too bad Peter is dead he could play Fauci in the movie about this.
Why is the Wuhan Virus different Dr Fauci.
B…e…c…uz ….. you can ….. CATCH it …. from …. some—-one …… who …. is ….. not … feeeeeliiiinnnnggg…. Sick. Excuse me —- it’s time for my nap… now. Good Bye.
We know that it is way worse than the regular flu in China, but that doesn’t necessarily tell use much about the rest of the world. China has a lot of smog, tuberculosis, and smoking. Prior exposure to SARS may also predispose bad reactions, according to one article, and but I don’t know whether that is true or not. China had previous SARS cases.
With a young population, China doesn’t “expect” many deaths in a a given two month period. Even if the death rate from COVID-19 was low, if it came at the same time as the regular flu, the total number of deaths could easily exceed the capacity of cremation sites.
Where was your pity for the 61,000 people who died of The Flu in 2018 in America?
What about the 650,000 who die in any bad flu year globally?
Dude — if you are going to bawl over every flu death you better drink a hell of a lot of water…. or you’ll end up looking like this
https://images.fineartamerica.com/images/artworkimages/mediumlarge/1/a-desiccated-horse-carcass-propped-joel-sartore.jpg
Hit after hit after hit…. the hits Just keep on Coming!
Stay tuned for more of Fast Eddy.
Respiratory ward – empty
https://youtu.be/XMIX54SSpN4
Another empty hospital in NY
https://twitter.com/i/status/1244517366731546625
Check the guys reaction at the end of this when the security guard tells him he cannot film outside of a public facility…
https://twitter.com/i/status/1245486010294730759
Keep in mind — for those of you of thick skull — that anyone can upload a video of their hospital to this account —- so if you dispute the premise that the MSM is lying — then where all the legions of brainwashed meeetheads…. who you would expect to counter the empty hospital ‘lie’ — who surely would be posting chaotic scenes (that the MSM is telling us are happening).
Take a browse…. it’s all about the empty hospitals…. yet America is locking down! And how many million have lost jobs????
https://twitter.com/search?q=empty%20hospitals&src=typed_query
Anyone still believe man has walked on the mo.on?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Fp7G2kMyTTk/UksGD_tiuYI/AAAAAAAAIks/esSBtA_sCZQ/s1600/Kirk+Smirk.png
Let’s go hunting:
Coronavirus: Man jailed after hospital visit social media boast
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52142052
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/D1EF/production/_111534735_stokemandeville.jpg
He should have said he was going to the hospital to get tested because he had a slight cough…..
Another empty hospital – in Florida this time
https://twitter.com/i/status/1245837093802323970
@ FE
Ha Ha Ha….now you all start to understand the nature of the “CON spiracy” ……
“They” want you all CHIPPED and programmed to be good obedient slaves for what is coming.
Guess what will happen? If you don’t take the vaccine…..you won’t be able to buy and sell! You won’t be able to travel! You will be declared a TERRORIST!
You mor o n s that believe in the corona virus are totally d e lu s i o n a l.
But keep listening to the Te LIE vision and believe everything “They” tell you.
Ever heard of Event 201? The simulation leading up to the Corona Virus outbreak! Funded by Mr. Depopulation “Bill Gates”
http://www.centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoLw-Q8X174&feature=emb_title
Wild Bill and the World Government have got you all fooled.
I wonder if reality of some hospitals being set up as Covid only hospitals, that are getting overcrowded in some places quickly, and other hospitals for all ‘normal’ uses are very light on because people are not having accidents, not on roads etc.
Sometimes logical thinking works…
From a New York hospital…
https://hoodsite.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/coronavirus-new-york-disturbing-crowded-hospital-er.mp4?_=1
LOL @ Random 1 minute 13 second clip.
When all is said and done…..this will go down as a bigger SCAM and PSYOP than 9/11
You all will give up all of your rights, the few you have remaining because you are total M O R O N S!
This dwarfs the 911 scam.
I don’t think it is about long term control… rather it is about stopping rioting and mayhem when the global economy (which was collapsing) is collapsed in a ‘controlled demolition’
I am 99% certain that this is what we are looking at here…. and it is looking like my theory is going to be tested fairly soon. This lockdown cannot continue for a whole lot longer without an implosion.
Talked to a nurse working on one of York Hospital’s covid-19 wards tonight. She said the hospital now has 56 covid-19 patients. That’s up from 6 a week and a half ago. Because of what she is witnessing, she is in total agreement with the current lockdown.
Last night I talked to another nurse from the hospital who doesn’t work on a covid-19 ward. She told me she had been bored at work because her ward now only has 4 patients, down from a normal average of 30.
I also know that A&E is quieter than it’s ever been, because people are too scared to visit unless really necessary and because people are having fewer accidents.
So, some parts of the hospital are busy, others quiet. There’s no way the epidemic is fake, because too many people would have to be in on the hoax. (Where have I heard that before?)
Hospitals cannot make money with this new patient mix, however. In the US, the money comes from non-urgent surgery and from emergency room visits. Hospital visits paid by Medicare (for those over 65) don’t reimburse the hospital very well for their costs. Hospitals are laying off staff.
Can you call that one person back and ask how many patients they had in 2017/18 when nearly 700,000 people were hospitalized with the flu.
I am trying to find video of overflowing hospitals – there is none.
I can however find tents full of people during the 2017/18 flu — assuming this is true https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2018/01/24/Hospitals-overwhelmed-by-influx-of-flu-patients/8171516800130/
Was there a lockdown?????
Nobody is disputing that the Wuhan Flu exists. Can we get over that.
It is a flu. People get sick and die from — every flu.
The US had 42 MILLION+ flu cases in a few months over the 2017 winter.
The US has 5000 Wuhan Flu cases……
Big f77775ing Deal.
Same reason I don’t go down to the filthiest Caclutta who re house… and seek out a two buck HIV infected ho…. and spend the night with her…
Same reason when when I pick up a bar for a class at the gym I have always wiped it down with alcohol… because I know someone who previously used it … might not feel sick but they are contagious and they might have dropped their disease on the bar.
Am I afraid of Wuyan? Nope – I know people who have had this flu. It’s like all flus… you get sick… you drink fluids… you feel terrible for a week… then you recover… And with some people (mostly old, diseased weaklings) you end up in the hospital on a ventilator — or you die.
I am not old – I am definitely not diseased or weak.
But I prefer not to spend a week in bed.
If this is not a big fat lie — then why is the MSM claiming NY hospitals are overwhelmed — and there is video showing them empty?
They are actually emptier than empty because people who might have normally come to the ER for an ailment — are not bothering because they assume the hospital will be too busy to help them and/or they prefer to avoid hospitals because they don’t want to catch the ‘death flu’
And why is the MSM now attacking anyone who dares to post videos of these empty hospitals on social media?
Feel free to pull a N.orman and avoid the questions — or just say ‘because’ in a 100 word essay
Unless a person has good health insurance, any hospital visit is going to be expensive. Most will put off going to any hospital just for that reason.
Yes that’s awesome….
But why is the MSM saying the hospitals are overwhelmed?
Yet the citizen videos show they are not.
Funny how so many people are telling me they don’t trust the citizens…. they trust the MSM…..
Crazy…huh?
I watched this with a fair amount of interest… CDC was hiring quarantine officers in October 2019…. for loads of cities:
https://youtu.be/xCz6S91CU1c
Strange!
@ FE
Did you ever notice that before any mass shootings, mass protests, riots, etc. Ads went up on the internet looking for “Crisis Actors” ?
Same thing here……that is a giveaway that this is a “staged event”
Did you happen to notice Mike Pompeo stating that corona virus is a “Live exercise” ?
https://www.globalresearch.ca/secretary-state-mike-pompeo-admits-covid-19-live-exercise-president-trump-comments-i-wish-you-would-have-told-us/5707223
yes i have seen that video
ooopsie, whoopsie.. good catch..
lazy mop up of past nefarious activity, well perhaps why bother in the great scheme of things.. billions dead, trillions printed, what’s that among friends, right..
to a con spear asea theowrist, there is no such thing as a coincidence…
what?
coincidences cannot occur in a world of 7+ billion people?
Birds coming home to roost for NZ suppliers
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/413543/covid-19-global-fuel-glut-will-cost-nz-companies-millions
We can expect to see more problems with excess oil supply around the world.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/nyregion/ny-coronavirus-usns-comfort.html
Or perhaps the hospitals are empty so they don’t need this ship and it was only sent there to foster a sense of panic…. and the NYT is pumping out excuses….
And the SStttttt uuuuuppppid humans are cowering under their beds sucking their thumbs and calling for mummy….
And if anyone DARES to challenge the narrative these fools will turn on them and scratch their eyes out.
Oh and they are stockpiling TP because they saw a video on FB of other people stockpiling TP … and it did not occur to them that there are far more important things they might want to stockpile (e.g sanitary napkins)…. because if push comes to shove you go out back with the garden hose…
And if the water stops pumping … the least of your worries is skid marks….
A stump has a higher IQ.
Crazy – huh?
Nah, deluded you are.
People staying at home watching Netflix won’t injure themselves in traffic and other humanoid escapades.
there is no need for corona denialism.
go back home,
Take your flu shot, mr.eddie.
and don’t forget to stock up on toilet paper.
Get 2% off with a 400 roll purchase with a free virus code .
https://bit.ly/2JTgRCd
It’s more like, these ships are only for those without CV-19, but in order to prove you don’t have CV-19, you’d need to have already gone to a hospital.
If tests for CV-19 are available, they often seem to be in drive through sites, outside of hospitals. No one wants people with CV-19 inside a hospital.
Boris Johnson admitted to hospital.
https://youtu.be/125EYoPIU_Y
🦠
Boris Johnson is 55 years old, so he is relatively young as world leaders go.
He looks terribly unhealthy …. I don’t like his chances:
https://cdn.thedailymash.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/20191003235957/boris-johnson-bad-teeth-667×375.jpg
Perhaps the El d-ers have decided to infect and kill him as a ‘sacrifice’ to the Gods of Panic and Fear. He’s a pretty good front man no?
Apparently British “0range man bad” is on oxygen now.
https://youtu.be/V5rXfOxvgVY
Now Boris is in intensive care.
https://youtu.be/AYK6kjxaMd0
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/1200px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png
I have just been informed that Boris going into hospital is definite proof that this virus is different from the flu.
Because….drum roll…. when was the last time the leader of a country went into the hospital … because of the flu….
Yep — world leaders never go into the hospital… they never get sick… they never die….
This is definitely proof that Wuhan is different from the other flu.
https://twitter.com/bethreinhard/status/1246822274755432448
In 2017/2018… 42M people contracted the flu — 700k were hospitalized … 60k died.
If the US is having trouble monitoring this version of The Flu and there are only 5000+ in the hospitals…. then imagine what the REAL numbers must have been … in 2017/18….
The MSM never had much in the way of credibility — and they are plumbing new depths with this flu.
Attacking anyone who dares to post a video of empty hospitals is disgusting… what’s next — encouraging people to attack anyone who uploads these videos?
We had a pipe burst under the house some months ago…. I had to scrape all the sludge out and then spread lime over what was left after the plumber replaced the broken pipe.
The stench emanating from the MSM right now is far in excess of that of the sludge….
Let’s give MSM a break for a while. We know that there was some over-estimation of illnesses done, at least at this point in time. It may be that part of the problem is one of timing. There may be more deaths later, if some of the current illnesses (many of which are not recorded anywhere) result in death. Clearly the modelers didn’t think about the people with regular illnesses staying away from hospitals in large numbers.
It also seems reasonable to believe that the masks will indeed cut back on illnesses. If this is the case, perhaps illnesses and deaths will start to level out before they rise to the level they would have without the masks. So it is really a different situation than what was originally modeled, if the masks work.
Of course, we may need to use these masks for a very long time, to keep the illnesses and deaths from bouncing back up.
thank you, Gail…
Those of you who are choosing lives over the economy don’t understand what you are saying.
” we may need to use these masks for a very long time, to keep the illnesses and deaths from bouncing back up.”
In addition to that, we will need to adoption a Communist-command economy devoted to treating an epidemic.
We may need to have an economy whose output is largely healthcare for a very long time to keep the illnesses and deaths from bouncing back up.
Lockdown will have to be a new way of life for everyone for a very long time. in order to keep the illnesses and deaths from bouncing back up.
We will have a lot of starving people around the world. Also, the medicines that we expect to get from India will disappear, making it difficult to treat illnesses of all kinds. It is just an illusion that we can reduce the overall death rate this way, I am afraid.
https://www.facebook.com/1518147318236235/posts/3110296022354682/
Quality analysis, thanks. Cool Centro btw..
Is It possible an war Economy for de momths? Whit grid and gasoline. And Police on street martial law. Before the collaps Total,?
We will find out.
If we still have a semi-functioning society in the next few weeks/months and since COVID-19 is here to stay, I believe like some have said here that we will be living a kind of “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others” scenarios.
The governments won’t have a choice but to re-open…they can’t keep everything shut until there is a vaccine as there won’t be any people to re-open to.
So maybe in this scenario we will see stuff like:
-You’re over 70 – you can never leave your house until a vaccine is found
-You’re under 70 but you have a pre-existing condition – you can never leave your house until vaccine is found
– Want to go back to work in your office or factory – You must provide proof that you have been through Covid-19 and that you are no longer a threat
– You are under 70, in good health but you’ve never had Covid-19…you have to work from home (you can’t work from home, tough luck) and your movements will be restricted (groceries, pharmacy, etc.)
-And other such measures
In Italy, Going Back to Work May Depend on Having the Right Antibodies:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/world/europe/italy-coronavirus-antibodies.html
Kind of an amalgamation of Gattaca, Brave New World and 1984:
You’ve have COVID-19 and survived it, you are in the superior class…you are over 70, you are under-70 with a pre-existing condition or under 70 in good health but never had COVID-19, you’re a second-class citizen and we will monitor your every step. 🙂
It seems like the only way people will risk having COVID-19 is if having the antibodies will give them some special privileges.
Way back when, families had chicken pox or three-day measles parties, so that children could pass the germs around while they were young and relatively few had bad effects. It may be that this approach would work with COVID-19 as well (if children really are spared bad effects, immunity is long lasting, and antivirals and vaccines don’t work out). Of course, medical practice today would never consider such a possibility.
Isn’t that what college kids essentially did over the extended spring break?
Dennis L.
Yep and the guy at the beginning of the video actually got infected, e ffin moron:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkYRI48bXRw
https://globalnews.ca/news/6730007/coronavirus-spring-breaker-apology/
I walked near the parking lot for a golf course near my home today. It was filled. A neighbor I talked to remarked that every day of the week, the golf course seems to be doing better business than they have in recent years. People find whatever is open and go there. I didn’t notice masks, either.
Well even if we are going to rape and murder the local Swedes a move to Sweden is looking better and better. Can my wife and I open carry our hand gun and shotgun?
Not yet.
Wait a few weeks until the virus starts ripping in the ghettos.
Then you’ll see what the ‘Humanitarian Superpower’ is capable of when it comes to violation of basic decency and crimes against humanity.
I got my backpack ready and plenty of 30-06 ammo if I have to run for it to the Finnish or Norwegian border when the institutional sociopathy decides to draft me into a civil war.
Did I mention in which country the Stockholm syndrome originated? Yes, that is the psychosocial state of mind where the populace, or sect, will take side with the perpetrator.
I hope I didn’t forget to inform the readers of OFW about the Swedish ruthless and opportunistic collaboration with nazi Germany? Oh, the Swedes also basically educated the Nazis how proper race biology is to be managed.
The Norwegians still haven’t forgiven Sweden for the deportation of soldiers using Swedish rail to “interrogation” in the gestapo HQ in Germany.
And the list goes on and on and on. Indeed the Geats and Swedes is two of the worst sects in the world. The most soulless form of pretentious existence defined by a people who never stopped being poor, no matter how much wealth is showed down their collective cookie holes. My contempt for them is boundless.
Does anyone think the internet is partly to blame for the hysteria around this virus? I mean now everyone has access to instant information about everything that is going on. Is it paralyzing us? Back before the 24/7 news cycle would there have been this kind of reaction?
It’s a factor sure but perhaps the bigger factors are the consolidation of big media in fewer hands, lack of critical thinking, fear-driven narratives that never seem to report on the larger perspective, and the astonishing faith people put in “experts” and manipulated statistics. We live in a time where we need to wake up from the groupthink to avoid heading off a cliff.
And if you get it, don’t notice, and life goes on, then don’t tell anyone….
I think the source of the hysteria is coming from those in charge. The 24/7 news cycle and the social media are constantly seeking more female participants because women are easier to manipulate than men and are able to manipulate others more easily than men.
Aside from women, there are emotionally stunted 20-something adults who look to the media and government to meet their emotional needs, which include safety and validation.These emotionally stunted adults tend to be very well off but anxiety and depression are unusually high among them.
On the other hand, most human societies are ruled by the emotional whims of those with power, whether it’s a monarch, a mob, a clergy, or “Experts”.
If one can deduce who is in charge, then the questions you raise can be answered.
As of now, no one is claiming to be in charge. The leaders are claiming they are just responding to current events and advice from experts. Experts are saying they are merely reacting to current events too…and are making recommendations based on scant information….
it can’t be helped!
More questions:
1. If a person with an ankle bracelet is caught leaving quarantine is arrested where is he/she put?
2. If placed in jail, then that jail becomes infected.
3. When the jail is infected, what happens to the guards?
4. Are the infected guards locked down with infected inmates?
5. If non infected guards in a sufficient number refuse to be guards, is it any longer a working jail?
6. What if that person was placed in her/his house along with family and the doors, windows nailed shut? Has that been tried? Would that threat enforce a degree of familial social enforcement?
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/ankle-monitors-ordered-kentucky-residents-crackdown-quarantine-quitters-begins
A simpler solution has already been proposed in a certain East Asian country not far from Japan. It would seem possible to employ that form of enforcement and yet maintain social distancing. Is that a solution for either the individual or society?
How does an individual make any long term plans if they have not been exposed to the disease and developed an immunity? If you hide out and wait for the all clear and potentially meet one carrier it is over for that individual. The longer the time lapse, the older one becomes, the poorer the immune response.
The young are getting out and being called irresponsible, are they? Their immune systems are at the highest level and will only decline going forward. Those who gain natural immunity will see another day, those who fail will be following what we believe is a law of nature, the immunity of the herd will be greater. Those who don’t make it will have had a hell of a going away party. Or, is it better to die in bed with a ventilator or die in bed with …..? Those with a choice have already made it to a certain degree – “Party Like It’s 1999” comes to mind.
Isn’t this what herd immunity essentially implies? Am I missing something?
Dennis L.
Speaking about South Korea, on 1950 it simply buried its prisoners alive, or drowned them, as the North Koreans were going deep into the country. At least 100,000 prisoners (most of them communists) were simply killed without firing a single shot.
Yes, there is no “herd immunity” for the influenza which have been ripping in the populace since the 1500’s. Now with SARS CoV-2, the ripping will require mitigation.
Luckily the mitigation is cheap and can be mass produced in copious quantities.
Lean back, grab some popcorn and don’t overthink this while you stay away from the sources of infection if you can’t source a N95 mask and PVP-I.
With India shut down, our access to generic drugs will be shut down. Where does PVP-I come from?
The ‘party option’ has much to recommend it.
I certainly hope my last companion will not be a ventilator…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM7fxi8Os-U
The snake pit is getting funnier each day, now the German msm (CIA poodles) stepped up the pressure. In one segment they claim these Q3 army games hosted in China, where US left some biological containers, resulted in mere malaria infection not SARS-Wuhan-bug type of virus. Apart from that all jolly good, return to sleep zombies, lolz. Interestingly, anti malaric treatment has been tested around the world with some %% success against it already.
It’s a fast spinning bowl of propaganda and counter propaganda from all sides..
And the take home away quote: “..have elevated conspiracy theories on the diplomatic level..”
No country wants to be responsible for this pandemic, so it’s devolved into a blame game.
Yes, but there are pearls (of understanding) to be found in this mud fighting..
One of those pearls: don’t trust whatever China tells the world.
Well, that’s the first half, the second half of the story is that attempts to weaponize modified SARS-Coronas took place well before Q3 2019 in other countries..
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/94/948a5e7947dc02b349234339c98054223c43b30e17de2c111b8e450cd73de96b.jpg
Wuhan is no more scary than any flu — what is scary is that the el de rs are destroying the means to put food on the table for billions of people….
Imagine you are a tricycle driver in India … you have no savings… and now you have no job….
That truly is scary.
The end game surely is not far off… the Indian fella is not alone … people will be facing starvation already.
Sorry, I’m not interested in Indian fella one bit, the colonial period forcing aside, their over pop to avail. resources is just of their own making as in other places of the world..
“”Everyone’s [in Inuvik] getting ready to go to their camps,” he told Al Jazeera via phone. “People are starting to panic. The shelves in the stores are getting empty.””
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/indepth/features/indigenous-canada-turn-land-survive-coronavirus-200401073446077.html
Canadian indigenous people are trying to go back to the land. I can imagine this will work during summer. During winter and spring, I expect it will be a major challenge.
I would like as a topic of the next article course the food shortage in Europe and the breakdown of Europe
Food shortage will be solved by import.
To bad for those we will import from.
The surplus goes to the highest bidder. Too bad for Africa.
it may be that our problem is not so much importing food ‘from’
as importing it ‘with’
food is the base energy resource, so the people we import food from (assuming we’re not actually stealing it) must receive some form of payment that enables them to acquire their own base energy resource in a different form—ie money with an actual value
if we can’t offer them anything with which to do this, then no foods with be forthcoming
Plunder.
I predict no calorie shortages in europe in the next few years, but very possibly somewhere else.
i hope you’re right
the uk imports about 50% of its food right now but a lot of that is non essential
I’m not sure that 65 m could be self sufficient here
No nation wllingly exports food when their own people are starving
Oh that happens all the time. The so called famines in Ireland or Sweden.
i did say ‘willingly’ for a reason
the irish landlords were mostly of English extraction and took food energy from their lands and sold it and didnt care that their own people starved.
in any event, Ireland and england were seen as the same nation
I don’t know much about the swedes but I imagine they had a similiar situation
Yes, better selling oats to english horses than giving it to lazy northerners.
I think we should think about corporations not countries.
But if I’m wrong … it is enough some countries produce a surplus then they will be willing selling it, and I believe europe will be better able to pay for it than some of the african or asian countries.
Just think how much of those imports to the UK must be wine and chorizo, etc. And dark chocolate.
Inessentials we wouldn’t even dream of as we dig our ‘Victory’ gardens, much preferring dumplings and cabbage with a cup of sawdust-grade tea.
The financial system is still functioning. Dollar demand is very high. VERY high compared to currency basket. There is not a viable alternative. BUT. Infinite money printing and monetizing debt can not continue indefinitely. THe future? Trade ends without a unit of exchange? SDR? Somthing else? Anti christ along in 3 2 1? I say three years of currencies still working minimum.
That seems as good summary of the situation. For SDR they need(ed) the other major hubs still operating on all pistons for allowing the big switcheroo, not merely demoting of the US through internal atrophy.. As you probably know it didn’t pan out, late 1990s early 2000s were about the promise of EUR dominance, and 2010s about the promise of China taking it all before ~2035. Instead the ERoE internal dynamics stalled rapidly for all the given hubs, and now we are into GFC_ver2, with M4A, MMT/UBI all the rage, ..
Perhaps situation-plans changed and the game has evolved into such wobbly state it’s non salvageable on macro control joy pad from now on, so it will be just chaotic disintegration starting within this decade. Remnants would eventually mount retro feudalism where possible with fraction of the pop.
Or perhaps the Wuhan bug over response really pushes austerity (demand) plateau policies as some speculate here, and the SDR regime with local digital currencies (and chipped pop) comes down as the savior of the day for a while..
Nah, it’s techno feudalism ramping up.
It is easy to enforce it by releasing the kraken as high-tech home brew pathogens and hobbyist grade “terror” attacks on infrastructure.
Either it’s the tech class that rules or it is the skimmers. I’m happy to side with the first.
I say fuck em’. It’s the end of the debt driven consumerism enabled by the scammers.
https://www.ivyexec.com/career-advice/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/shutterstock_694471627.jpg
you could be right
but
last Christmas we were all jollying along
End of Feb the same
then BANG
the world shudders to a stop, the shops empty, the roads empty, factories shut down planes and cruise ships cease to move.
World population suddenly terrified.
I always said it would be quick, and I had my own theories. But I always thought in a 10 year span as ‘quick’ , by no stretch of the imagination did i think 10 days.
as i keep blathering on—its not the money we have to worry about, it’s energy.
fossil fuels have no value unless we are actually using them, and with the above factors—we are not using them–hence oil is dropping through the floor. Nobody wants it because we dont have a use for it in a world that isn’t moving. (the old bike and ditch problem)
We cannot just print money to ‘use’ it without fuelburning. Money has no functional meaning unless it is underpinned by (surplus) energy. The more ‘surplus’ you have, the higher your standard of living.
(Hence the period of the ‘American Dream’ which lasted from 1945-1970)
Reduce energy towards ‘living parity’ and your standard of living falls.
Reduce it ‘below parity’ and your standard of living crashes sharply.
Anyone unable to grasp that should check out what happened in Zimbabwe when they stopped producing selling and using raw primary energy. (they started printing $5m notes, thinking the were printing ‘value’.
Some OFW’ers will scream hoax and conspiracy, having nothing else to occupy their thought processes, but normal ‘flu’ does not kill young fit doctors and nurses treating it, or 3% of those it infects.
This information is established and has no room for ‘conspiracy’ nonsense.
This has terrified the world, and crashed energy use. It isn’t possible to ‘force’ users to consume more energy than the economic system can absorb, no matter how cheap it is.
You can even give it away, but if there’s nothing to actually use it for, it will sit in fuel tanks.
Example—if you were offered free flights to some exotic destination right now—would you take it?
You wouldn’t, and no one would let you in anyway.
the don is screaming to open up the world because his hotels and golf courses are drowning him in debt. The same is happening all over
And all this in just a month.
I hate it when you use good reasoning Norm.
Stay well.
Yep Niko, I have been following Norman since circa 2010 when he had his End of More blog and then read his book End of More in 2013. Since then I have read his many detailed comments here and on the Resilience website (he kept bringing those degrowth, must transition to clean energy crowd back to reality) and his articles on Medium.
He is definitely high up on the list of people who have made me understand the predicament we are in.
And for that, I thank you Norman!
thanks for your kind words guys
have to confess that nobody hates the stuff i write more than i do
i have grandkids and with them in mind, i know what my words are saying. luckily they ignore most of my ramblings and get on with their lives, which is as it should be
Can you provide evidence that loads of medical professionals do not die from the flu each year?
BOOM – check this out:
Up to 650 000 people die of respiratory diseases linked to seasonal flu each year
https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/14-12-2017-up-to-650-000-people-die-of-respiratory-diseases-linked-to-seasonal-flu-each-year
We are at 69,000 deaths so far with Wuhan. We have LONG way to go before we bust that record.
And why am I thinking quite a few medical professionals die….
https://strangesounds.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/BOOM.jpg
with one wife and 3 daughters in the nursing profession, (one of whom is now at a very senior level)
and subsequent inevitable involvement with all things medical for years, I think I would have become aware at first hand if there had been any unusual rates of sickness catching in that field.
As it was (and is) there doesn’t seem to have been, other than in the current situation
As Tim has explained… and as you can see on Governor Cuomo’s website — the Wuhan Virus is a FLU.
Cuomo’s site does NOT differentiate between Wuhan and any other flus that are currently making the rounds of NY State.
There is no evidence that Wuhan is more contagious or in any significant way different from other brands of flu.
Yes yes we are told you can pass it without symptoms and it wrecks the lungs… but as I have referenced on the CDC site — the same goes for ANY brand of flu.
If flu is flu then how is that medical professionals would contract Wuhan from patients in any greater numbers than they contract it when dealing with other flu sufferers?
I deal in FACTS. And DATA. And LOGIC.
‘My wife’s sisters a men tally re t ard ed brother who got a a sympathy job at the local hospital mucking out bed pans said…’ does not count.
If you want to convince me then I leave it to you to get onto google and do the research. Cuz the onus is on you — and I have to go to my knife fighting lesson shortly …. so I am what is referred to as bizzy.
apologies about the typo—no relation to Martin I promise
don’t slip and fall on your sword
My crystal ball is a little cloudy, when it comes to differentiating one European country against another. The best I could probably do is talk about Europe generally.
Stopping everything at borders now seems like insanity. COVID-19 is everywhere, with or without stopping things at borders.
Correct. It is impossible to stop Wuhan Flu. Just like it is IMPOSSIBLE to stop or cure a common cold.
So why bother even trying?
Do what the US did in 2017/18…. nothing. That was an excellent strategy that did not cause tens of millions of people to lose their jobs — nor did is collapse the economy.
Of if governments want to do something to stop some people from getting sick, encourage hand washing – not only now — but all the time. If people washed their hands multiple times per day they’d get sick a whole lot less.
Don’t get me wrong — I am all for the containment strategy…. because I can see the Big Picture. It will collapse the economy and extinct humans.
It looks like the prevailing sentiment regarding this virus is that authorities are using it as part of a “managed collapse” strategy. Politicians of all political stripes will use it to reduce government budgets. Businesses will use it to reduce the the quantity of goods produced.
The question is will billions of people quietly starve to death to avoid spreading a disease?
I thinking that we are seeing in Italy that people won’t quietly starve to death.
It seems like we should start seeing an increasing amount of objections to what is happening as time goes on.
Sorry, but capitalism cannot run in reverse. Unless the debt spigots re-open, and soon, the whole thing is going to go over the precipice.
When did the regular flu ever come close to the projected numbers of what would happen without a quarantine and let the virus do it’s thing on all of us:
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-when-will-coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing-end
From the article:
“Since a vaccine is at least 12 to 18 months from being available (SN: 2/21/20), the fastest way to herd immunity would be to let the virus burn through the world’s population unimpeded. According to a March 16 report released by researchers at Imperial College London, in the United States, the pandemic would peak in about three months under that scenario.
But….
The costs of such a strategy would be overwhelming. Upward of 2 million Americans would die from infection alone, according to the same report. Roughly 81 percent of the U.S. population would get infected, the team estimates.”
Um 81 percent of the US population in 3 months is 262 million people infected..has that ever happened in a regular flu season??
When have 60 doctors in Northern Italy died from treating regular flu…in 1 month…let me know if you do have such a stat…
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/927753
Again, you let the virus rip, pandemonium ensues..
You quarantine, pandemonium ensues…
Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea
Two million social security, medicare, medicaid, welfare takers killed could be just what the budget needed. The Fortune Five Hundred corporations are making an effort to keep their staff safe. It will not be an equal kill across all levels of society. As always Bill Gates and Warren Buffet where are they? Way way way far away.
The stop windows are already boarded up in the cities. Interesting note local restaurants are taking this opportunity to remodel without losing revenue. Local are flying big American flags off of their cars and truck. The slums of NYC are “locked down” and their is no storage of army troops in addition to the governors private army of troopers (state police are called troopers in NY a bit honest). The troopers run in packs, always wear body armor, drive large black SUVs with large battering rams on the front, always carry gun and tazer and shotgun in car. I think they will have no issue running down or shooting as many as needed. I have never seen them deploy machine guns it sure would be interesting to know hoow many machine guns they have in stock. ITE there will be no pandemonium in New York State. Just the iron fist rule of a strong man who should be the next president of the United Sates.
shop shortage wish wp had edit
“I have never seen them deploy machine guns it sure would be interesting to know how many machine guns they have in stock.”
The homeland security budget has been quite generous.
Yes, a lot of people don’t seem to get this φίλε. There are only difficult choices now, and after the dust settles, we still have the fallout from the bursting of Bubblezilla to deal with too.
Psile, einai yemato malakes edo…YEMATO!!
Έχεις δίκιο…αχ
Can someone explain to me how someone could look at this formula:
5,000 infections in the US vs 42 million in 2017/18 + a string of videos showing empty hospitals + CBS news using hospital footage from Italy pretending it was taken in a US ICU…..
And not think they were being fu kk ed with?
Most people I have point this out to think I have lost the plot….
I probably won’t follow with my evidence of the Faked Moon Walk…. hahaha
A better question — why am I surrounded by billions of fooooking IDI o TS?
I won’t be surprised if at some point I am stoned to death or burned at the stake as a heretic. It is often the price that one pays for greatness…
https://www.mikeduran.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/heretic-nametag.jpg
Supply chain… supply chain….
European car plants close as industry crisis deepens
PSA and Fiat Chrysler to shut factories as demand tumbles and supply chains disrupted
Europe’s car industry is facing its worst disruption in a decade, as manufacturers announced plans to close dozens of plants across the continent amid the deepening coronavirus outbreak.
France’s PSA, which owns the Peugeot, Citroën, Vauxhall and Opel brands, said on Monday that it would close all its European plants, including Mulhouse in France and the UK’s Ellesmere Port. Italy’s Fiat Chrysler will shut eight sites, including six in its home market.
Volkswagen, the world’s largest carmaker, could shut production lines because of disruptions to supply chains as a growing number of European countries close borders and impose lockdown measures, according to people familiar with the matter.
The plant at the German carmaker’s Wolfsburg headquarters is set to shut within days unless the group can replace parts coming from Italian and Spanish suppliers.
In a day of turmoil for the region’s car industry, Renault, Ford and Nissan also shuttered facilities in Spain, and BMW’s home state of Bavaria declared a state of emergency.
“The situation will likely get worse from here,” said Philippe Houchois, a car analyst at Jefferies.
Coronavirus business update
How is coronavirus taking its toll on markets, business, and our everyday lives and workplaces? Stay briefed with our coronavirus newsletter.
Plans to close the plants temporarily came as shares in car companies tumbled as the spectre of widespread industrial shutdowns across the continent grew.
PSA will shutter all of its European sites this week until the end of the month, following meetings with its unions.
The company said that the decision was taken “due to the acceleration observed in recent days of serious Covid-19 cases close to certain production sites, supply disruptions from major suppliers, as well as the sudden decline in the automobile markets”.
VW’s Wolfsburg plant, which makes some of the brand’s flagship products, including the Golf and the Tiguan and Touran sports utility vehicles, is one of the German carmaker’s sites potentially affected by difficulties of securing parts from Italy and Spain. The facility is currently up and running, although on-site restaurants have been closed.
Staff working on assembly lines at the plant have been told to bring their own food, and to board internal shuttles from the back door in order to avoid infecting drivers.
“Things are getting more complicated and the situation is changing rapidly,” said VW. “We have far more suppliers for European production in Italy and Spain than in China.”
How coronavirus is hitting global business
Fiat had planned to reopen four factories on Monday that it had closed for deep cleaning and to be retooled to operate with fewer staff.
However car sales, particularly in its Italian homeland, have fallen sharply. Italian car sales dropped 9 per cent in February, but the country has been all-out locked down during March as the outbreak spread, with people banned from leaving home except for essential work or to buy food.
The shutdown allows “the group to be ready to commence production promptly once market conditions allow”, Fiat said on Monday.
Shares in Renault, which has closed two sites in northern Spain, fell 20 per cent on Monday, taking their losses to 80 per cent in the past year. PSA stock dropped 16 per cent.
Germany’s carmakers also suffered, with Daimler down 11 per cent, BMW falling 12 per cent and VW dropping 13 per cent.
“The reality is that auto stocks across Europe are getting hit as plants close and both supply and demand are going to be hit severely in the coming weeks,” said Thomas Besson, analyst at Kepler Cheuvreux
https://www.ft.com/content/dd76d42a-678b-11ea-a3c9-1fe6fedcca75
Behind paywall. need to search using Google.
Thanks! The most important part of this article would seem to be
With supply chains extending around the world, it is impossible for any one place to get up and running without all of the other places being up and running. If we use long shutdowns to try to control the virus, that takes an impossibly long time. If it were possible to shutter sites only when workers were sick (or rum them at less than 100% capacity), we would seem to be in much better shape to get up and running sooner.
Yes, let’s get those &*#%^+€+#%^ N95’s and air filters out en masse. Slap some PVP-I on the hands and face and call it a day.
https://i1.wp.com/lolzombie.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/fn-coffee.jpg
Best post ever. Man up. Its war. you do your best. You take some hits.
In war its understood. If you are not willing to take some hits you lose.
The academic “flattening the curve” is pure unadulterated bovine excrement. Locking up people at home in apartments sharing the same recirculated ventilation system is madness.
Once N95-N99’s are available en masse and mailed to the populace, the “curve” will be hitting the Seneca cliff.
SARS CoV-2 is an airborne upper respiratory tract infection causing virus. Breathing filtered air is of course the only effective mitigation in existence. Additionally slapping some PVP-I on your hands and face will kill viruses as you poke yourself in the nose and rub your instruments of vision.
Fsck “testing”, fsck “lockdowns”. It won’t cure the underlying problem, anyway, for how long and at what cost will this farce continue?
Sometimes collapse just doesn’t go the way we expect it too.
https://mronline.org/2020/04/04/why-coronavirus-could-spark-a-capitalist-supernova/
Saludos
el mar
This article has a lot of fine insights in it. For example:
It goes astray at the end, however, suggesting that what we need is a global health services to solve our problem. We don’t have the resources to fight this illness, no matter how we go about it. We would need a bigger “profit margin,” and a less crafty virus.
Just wondering … does anyone still think man has been on the moon?
Surely not….
Here’s a great video proving the moon landings were fake. Just don’t listen to the parts where SciManDan pretends to “debunk” it, listen to the parts in between:
Yes. an east test would be to find the laser reflector that were placed on the moon. They are three sided mirrors that form a corner. Regardless of the exact angle the light enters it returns exactly back the same path to the source. it is just geometry. There should be no shortage of academic paper on there use at the time. If they are not too covered with dust at this point yo may be able to bounce a laser pulse off of some of them your self,
Gosh, if only there was some way to search the internet and find the answer!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Point_Observatory_Lunar_Laser-ranging_Operation
Bah, the Internet is a hoax. All information is already stored and played back inside your portable computer, a semiconductor and software miracle of fakery and delusion.
Who in their right mind could believe that wireless information transmission is possible. I mean, there is obviously nothing physical connecting the devices. Ergo fake. Electricity too, that is one of the epitomes of fake. How can energy be transmitted in stationary solid metal wires? Totally impossible. Real energy transmission uses explosions, pistons and pushrods. It is so obvious it hurts.
And why stop there, Enron Musk is certain the universe is a simulation. Yep, there you have it. The whole shebang is fake. Except for explosions, pistons and pushrods.
Yes there are more than 40 years of Lunar Laser Ranging (LRR) data. Various observatories around the world (in Nice France, New Mexico US) are still sending laser beams over there. It is these days for example used to test with great accuracy general relativity principles…
Back to basics, there had been laser beam experiments both in the early/mid 1960s before the landing missions and also afterwards, moreover also differentiated by using either placed “mirror” on the Moon surface (Soviet-French) or just experiments when shooting lasers on the bare Moon surface, which again could be of different material properties (~glass from meteor impact or just dull low reflective material).
It has been also discussed in the comments to large depth:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz09H_qwQ-U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeflhPWk1QY
ps frankly, again, don’t get the interest in these tangential issues, when the astronots are clearly caught on footage faking the ~deep space~ flight placing cut outs and transparencies on the windows inside the module when still in Earth’s orbit..
this case has been closed years ago, sorry,
humanoid = bad can’t travel to moons..
Norman disagrees. He cannot refute anything. He just disagrees.
Every tried to argue with a 6 year old? Their main strategy when faced with facts that they cannot refute is to say ‘because’
Norman has a similar strategy — he just dresses it up with verbosity.
Proof that humans (atheistic scientists, anyway) could never have traveled to the moon:
https://krishna.org/nasa-moon-landing-hoax-explained-by-srila-prabhupada/
they broight back Moon rocks to study and left a laser beam repeater at Tranquility Base.
to use your terminology, these are “fact bombs”.
The photos look fake because we don’t usually see such conditions. Do you think we would build such enormous rockets, landers, etc. just to fake the landings?
the gold foils are useful in space and NASA still uses them on landers and rovers.
we lost a lot of fine humans in the effort, e.g., Apollo III. we almost lost more, e.g., Apollo XIII. it was an enormous effort to fulfill the promise of a fallen US president.
yup
without going there—what point could there possibly be to it all, other than job creation schemes for Phd’s
would love to have theories on that—it has to be the ultimate question that nobody asks or answers
Cmon Eddy—you must have an answer to that
Again, Norman, you are asking doubters to speculate as to why an organization would try to sell a false narrative as true. Speculation is all very well, but it isn’t the doubters’ job to explain why somebody else might be not telling the truth. This narrative you are asking them to analyze the motive behind isn’t their story. So what you are doing is dodging the issue. Your questions about motive should to be addressed to the people selling the story, not to the people doubting it.
BS, DJ, BS, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you claim something as a hoax, the burden of proof lies upon you.
Norman is asking for a rationale behind the claims. Flat earthers, anti vaxxers, fake moon landings, empty hospitals and instadoom. It’s all hunky dory for sensation seekers trying to fill an intellectual void which never can be topped up.
But you know what; it’s all good. Many outrageous claims have been found to be grounded in reality. And it is good food for thought if it was relevant to the subject and backed by strong reasoning. Which unfortunately sorely is lacking.
This is nothing else than myopia laden pure and unadulterated bovine *********.
https://www.signs-derby.com/i//tn_No_BS.jpg
Not DJ, Tim, I meant.
“Flat earthers, anti vaxxers, fake moon landings, empty hospitals and instadoom.”
A facetious type of argument K… lumping together these beliefs…they have nothing in common. Some may be flat stupid, others not so much. There is abundant evidence to any moron who can search for it that many vaccines are flat dangerous.
As I have proven in my post today…there ARE empty hospitals.
Instadoom has never been promulgated on this blog by anyone….so why do you throw it in?
Please make better arguments.
Why did we f ak e the mo- on landings?
Answer: http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/moondoggie-3/
repeating the same answer, no matter what the question, leaves one with the certainty that you have nothing else worth saying
Norm — you are fast approaching complete …. irrelevance….
https://www.valsparpackaging.com/assets/js/pojector/theme/noise.gif
Are you for real? The whole laser beam issue is just discussed above in astonishing details, refers to old msm articles, the comments incl. math and links to science papers etc.
Moon rocks, you mean the ones from the NASA meteorite impact site expedition to polar regions before the mission, or the one donated officially to Netherlands govs, which after recent “unscheduled” box unsealing showed to be petrified wood (and the msm tried to spin it as possible theft)?
Enormous rockets are needed to reach orbit with humans on board.
“Enormous rockets are needed to reach orbit with humans on board.”
Saturn V was an American human-rated super heavy-lift launch vehicle used by NASA between 1967 and 1973.[7] The three-stage liquid-propellant expendable rocket was developed to support the Apollo program for human exploration of the Moon and was later used to launch Skylab, the first American space station.
The Saturn V was launched 13 times from the Kennedy Space Center in Florida with no loss of crew or payload. As of 2020, the Saturn V remains the tallest, heaviest, and most powerful (highest total impulse) rocket ever brought to operational status, and holds records for the heaviest payload launched and largest payload capacity to low Earth orbit (LEO) of 140,000 kg (310,000 lb), which included the third stage and unburned propellant needed to send the Apollo command and service module and Lunar Module to the Moon.[5][6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V
This doesn’t raise any doubts in your mind? Not even a little?????
SpaceX CEO Elon Musk has now given four presentations about his company’s Starship rocket, but all of those updates mostly focused on the vehicle’s external stats. Musk has barely touched on the technologies needed to keep people alive and healthy while on Starship — technologies that need to be developed relatively soon if the spacecraft has any hope of carrying people to deep-space destinations like the Moon and Mars in the near future.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/4/20895056/elon-musk-starship-spacex-human-health-life-support-radiation
“Beyond Low Earth Orbit, space radiation may place astronauts at significant risk for radiation sickness, and increased lifetime risk for cancer, central nervous system effects, and degenerative diseases,” NASA writes on its website. “Research studies of exposure in various doses and strengths of radiation provide strong evidence that cancer and degenerative diseases are to be expected from exposures to galactic cosmic rays (GCR) or solar particle events (SPE).”
https://www.inverse.com/article/42407-elon-musk-space-radiation-worse-than-we-thought
i heard a NASA JPL scientist give a seminar basically admitting the same thing about the radiation. what it means is it’s probably OK to visit the Moon and perhaps even Mars, but once there, the astronauts will have to inhabit natural or artificial shelters to escape the long-term exposure to ionizing radiation. because Mars trips will likely take much longer, they may even have to live in built-in radiation escape shelters, if the Sun acts up and starts throwing flares into space, like it did in 1859.
thank you, dooomphd…
NASA apparently lost all the original video tapes from the lunar landings. However, every photograph taken on the moon is still archived. This is curious because the film used in those Hasselblad cameras will degrade significantly when exposed to a vacuum due to off-gassing. Not to mention the damage done from ionizing radiation. It is certainly a painful lesson for former Apollo fanboys such as myself.
“NASA apparently lost…”
what kind of unfactual unreferenced opinionated opinion is that?
this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_landing is loaded with references…
perhaps it will rekindle your fanboydom…
peace to all…
Oooh the moon rocks …. how do you know they are from the moon?
Might they not be pieces of asteroids?
SpaceX CEO Elon Musk has now given four presentations about his company’s Starship rocket, but all of those updates mostly focused on the vehicle’s external stats. Musk has barely touched on the technologies needed to keep people alive and healthy while on Starship — technologies that need to be developed relatively soon if the spacecraft has any hope of carrying people to deep-space destinations like the Moon and Mars in the near future.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/4/20895056/elon-musk-starship-spacex-human-health-life-support-radiation
“Beyond Low Earth Orbit, space radiation may place astronauts at significant risk for radiation sickness, and increased lifetime risk for cancer, central nervous system effects, and degenerative diseases,” NASA writes on its website. “Research studies of exposure in various doses and strengths of radiation provide strong evidence that cancer and degenerative diseases are to be expected from exposures to galactic cosmic rays (GCR) or solar particle events (SPE).”
https://www.inverse.com/article/42407-elon-musk-space-radiation-worse-than-we-thought