Citizens seem to be clamoring for shutdowns to prevent the spread of COVID-19. There is one major difficulty, however. Once an economy has been shut down, it is extremely difficult for the economy to recover back to the level it had reached previously. In fact, the longer the shutdown lasts, the more critical the problem is likely to be. China can shut down its economy for two weeks over the Chinese New Year, each year, without much damage. But, if the outage is longer and more widespread, damaging effects are likely.
A major reason why economies around the world will have difficulty restarting is because the world economy was in very poor shape before COVID-19 hit; shutting down major parts of the economy for a time leads to even more people with low wages or without any job. It will be very difficult and time-consuming to replace the failed businesses that provided these jobs.
When an outbreak of COVID-19 hit, epidemiologists recommended social distancing approaches that seemed to be helpful back in 1918-1919. The issue, however, is that the world economy has changed. Social distancing rules have a much more adverse impact on today’s economy than on the economy of 100 years ago.
Governments that wanted to push back found themselves up against a wall of citizen expectations. A common belief, even among economists, was that any shutdown would be short, and the recovery would be V-shaped. False information (really propaganda) published by China tended to reinforce the expectation that shutdowns could truly be helpful. But if we look at the real situation, Chinese workers are finding themselves newly laid off as they attempt to return to work. This is leading to protests in the Hubei area.
My analysis indicates that now, in 2020, the world economy cannot withstand long shutdowns. One very serious problem is the fact that the prices of many commodities (including oil, copper and lithium) will fall far too low for producers, leading to disruption in supplies. Broken supply chains can be expected to lead to the loss of many products previously available. Ultimately, the world economy may be headed for collapse.
In this post, I explain some of the reasons for my concerns.
[1] An economy is a self-organizing system that can grow only under the right conditions. Removing a large number of businesses and the corresponding jobs for an extended shutdown will clearly have a detrimental effect on the economy.
Figure 1. Chart by author, using photo of building toy “Leonardo Sticks,” with notes showing a few types of elements the world economy.
An economy is a self-organizing networked system that grows, under the right circumstances. I have attempted to give an idea of how this happens in Figure 1. This is an image of a child’s building toy. The growth of an economy is somewhat like building a structure with many layers using such a toy.
The precise makeup of the economy is constantly changing. New businesses are formed, and new consumers grow up and take jobs. Governments enact laws, partly to collect taxes, and partly to ensure fair treatment of all. Consumers decide which products to buy based on a combination of factors, including their level of wages, the prices being charged for the available goods, the availability of debt, and the interest rate on that debt. Resources of various kinds are used in producing goods and services.
At the same time, some deletions are taking place. Big businesses buy smaller businesses; some customers die or move away. Products that become obsolete are discontinued. The inside of the dome becomes hollow from the deletions.
If a large number of businesses are closed for an extended period, this will have many adverse impacts on the economy:
- Fewer goods and services, in total, will be made for the economy during the period of the shutdown.
- Many workers will be laid off, either temporarily or permanently. Goods and services will suddenly be less affordable for these former workers. Many will fall behind on their rent and other obligations.
- The laid off workers will be unable to pay much in taxes. In the US, state and local governments will need to cut back the size of their programs to match lower revenue because they cannot borrow to offset the deficit.
- If fewer goods and services are made, demand for commodities will fall. This will push the prices of commodities, such as oil and copper, very low.
- Commodity producers, airlines and the travel industry are likely to head toward permanent contraction, further adding to layoffs.
- Broken supply lines become problems. For example:
- A lack of parts from China has led to the closing of many automobile factories around the world.
- There is not enough cargo capacity on airplanes because much cargo was carried on passenger flights previously, and passenger flights have been cut back.
These adverse impacts become increasingly destabilizing for the economy, the longer the shutdowns go on. It is as if a huge number of deletions are made simultaneously in Figure 1. Temporary margins, such as storage of spare parts in warehouses, can provide only a temporary buffer. The remaining portions of the economy become less and less able to support themselves. If the economy was already in poor shape, the economy may collapse.
[2] The world economy was approaching resource limits even before the coronavirus epidemic appeared. This is not too different a situation than many earlier economies faced before they collapsed. Coronavirus pushes the world economy further toward collapse.
Reaching resource limits is sometimes described as, “The population outgrew the carrying capacity of the land.” The group of people living in the area could not grow enough food and firewood using the resources available at the time (such as arable land, energy from the sun, draft animals, and technology of the day) for their expanding populations.
Collapses have been studied by many researchers. The book Secular Cycles by Peter Turchin and Sergey Nefedov analyze eight agricultural economies that collapsed. Figure 2 is a chart I prepared, based on my analysis of the economies described in that book:
Figure 2. Chart by author based on Turchin and Nefedov’s Secular Cycles.
Economies tend to grow for many years before the population becomes high enough that the carrying capacity of the land they occupy is approached. Once the carrying capacity is hit, they enter a stagflation stage, during which population and GDP growth slow. Growing debt becomes an issue, as do both wage and wealth disparity.
Eventually, a crisis period is reached. The problems of the stagflation period become worse (wage and wealth disparity; need for debt by those with inadequate income) during the crisis period. Changes tend to take place during the crisis period that lead to substantial drops in GDP and population. For example, we read about some economies entering into wars during the crisis period in the attempt to gain more land and other resources. We also read about economies being attacked from outside in their weakened state.
Also, during the crisis period, with the high level of wage and wealth disparity, it becomes increasingly difficult for governments to collect enough taxes. This problem can lead to governments being overthrown because of unhappiness with high taxes and wage disparity. In some cases, as in the 1991 collapse of the central government of the Soviet Union, the top level government simply collapses, leaving the next lower level of government.
Strangely enough, epidemics also seem to occur within collapse periods. The rising population leads to people living closer to each other, increasing the risk of transmission. People with low wages often find it increasingly difficult to eat an adequate diet. As a result, their immune systems easily succumb to new communicable diseases. Part of the collapse process is often the loss of a significant share of the population to a communicable disease.
Looking back at Figure 2, I believe that the current economic cycle started with the use of fossil fuels back in the 1800s. The world economy hit the stagflation period in the 1970s, when oil supply first became constrained. The Great Recession of 2008-2009 seems to be a marker for the beginning of the crisis period in the current cycle. If I am right in this assessment, the world economy is in the period in which we should expect crises, such as pandemics or wars, to occur.
The world was already pushing up against resource limits before all of the shutdowns took place. The shutdowns can be expected to push the world economy toward a more rapid decline in output per capita. They also appear to increase the likelihood that citizens will try to overthrow their governments, once the quarantine restrictions are removed.
[3] The carrying capacity of the world today is augmented by the world’s energy supply. A major issue since 2014 is that oil prices have been too low for oil producers. The coronavirus problem is pushing oil prices even lower yet.
Strangely enough, the world economy is facing a resource shortage problem, but it manifests itself as low commodity prices and excessive wage and wealth disparity.
Most economists have not figured out that economies are, in physics terms, dissipative structures. These are self-organizing systems that grow, at least for a time. Hurricanes (powered by energy from warm water) and ecosystems (powered by sunlight) are other examples of dissipative structures. Humans are dissipative structures, as well; we are powered by the energy content of foods. Economies require energy for all of the processes that we associate with generating GDP, such as refining metals and transporting goods. Electricity is a form of energy.
Energy can be used to work around shortages of almost any kind of resource. For example, if fresh water is a problem, energy products can be used to build desalination plants. If lack of phosphate rocks is an issue for adequate fertilization, energy products can be used to extract these rocks from less accessible locations. If pollution is a problem, fossil fuels can be used to build so-called renewable energy devices such as wind turbines and solar panels, to try to reduce future CO2 pollution.
The growth in energy consumption correlates quite well with the growth of the world economy. In fact, increases in energy consumption seem to precede growth in GDP, suggesting that it is energy consumption growth that allows the growth of GDP.
Figure 3. World GDP Growth versus Energy Consumption Growth, based on data of 2018 BP Statistical Review of World Energy and GDP data in 2010$ amounts, from the World Bank.
The thing that economists tend to miss is the fact that extracting enough fossil fuels (or commodities of any type) is a two-sided price problem. Prices must be both:
- High enough for companies extracting the resources to make an after tax profit.
- Low enough for consumers to afford finished goods made with these resources.
Most economists believe that an inadequate supply of energy products will be marked by high prices. In fact, the situation seems to be almost “upside down” in a networked economy. Inadequate energy supplies seem to be marked by excessive wage and wealth disparity. This wage and wealth disparity leads to commodity prices that are too low for producers. Current WTI oil prices are about $20 per barrel, for example (Figure 4).
Figure 4. Daily spot price of West Texas Intermediate oil, based on EIA data.
The low-price commodity price issue is really an affordability problem. The many people with low wages cannot afford goods such as cars, homes with heating and air conditioning, and vacation travel. In fact, they may even have difficulty affording food. Spending by rich people does not make up for the shortfall in spending by the poor because the rich tend to spend their wealth differently. They tend to buy services such as tax planning and expensive private college educations for their children. These services require proportionately less commodity use than goods purchased by the poor.
The problem of low commodity prices becomes especially acute in countries that produce commodities for export. Producers find it difficult to pay workers adequate wages to live on. Also, governments are not able to collect enough taxes for the services workers expect, such as public transit. The combination is likely to lead to protests by citizens whenever the opportunity arises. Once shutdowns end, these countries are especially in danger of having their governments overthrown.
[4] There are limits to what governments and central banks can fix.
Governments can give citizens checks so that they have enough funds to buy groceries. This may, indeed, keep the price of food products high enough for food producers. There may still be problems with broken supply lines, so there may still be shortages of some products. For example, if there are eggs but no egg cartons, there may be no eggs for sale in grocery stores.
Central banks can act as buyers for many kinds of assets such as bonds and even shares of stock. In this way, they can perhaps keep stock market prices reasonably high. If enough gimmicks are used, perhaps they can even keep the prices of homes and farms reasonably high.
Central banks can also keep interest rates paid by governments low. In fact, interest rates can even be negative, especially for the short term. Businesses whose profitability has been reduced and workers who have been laid off are likely to discover that their credit ratings have been downgraded. This is likely to lead to higher interest costs for these borrowers, even if interest rates for the most creditworthy are kept low.
One area where governments and central banks seem to be fairly helpless is with respect to low prices for commodities used by industry, such as oil, natural gas, coal, copper and lithium. These commodities are traded internationally, so it is not just their own producers that need to be propped up; the market intervention needs to affect the entire world market.
One approach to raising world commodity prices would be to buy up large quantities of the commodities and store them somewhere. This is impractical, because no one has adequate storage for the huge quantities involved.
Another approach for raising world commodity prices would be to try to raise worldwide demand for finished goods and services. (Making more finished goods and services will use more commodities, and thus will tend to raise commodity prices.) To do this, checks would somehow need to go to the many poor people in the world, including those in India, Bangladesh and Nigeria, allowing these people to buy cars, homes, and other finished goods. Sending out checks only to people in one’s own economy would not be sufficient. It is unlikely that the US or the European Union would undertake a task such as this.
A major problem after many people have been out of work for a quite a while is the fact that many of these people will be behind on their regular payments, such as rent and car payments. They will be in no mood to buy a new vehicle or a new cell phone, simply because they have been offered a check that covers groceries and not much more. They will remain in a mode of cutting back on purchases, not adding more. Demand for most kinds of goods will remain low.
This lack of demand will make it difficult for business to have enough sales to make it profitable to reopen at the level of output that they had previously. Thus, employment and sales are likely to remain depressed even after the economy seems to be reopening. China seems to be having this problem. The Wall Street Journal reports China Is Open for Business, but the Postcoronavirus Reboot Looks Slow and Rocky. It also reports, Another Shortage in China’s Virus-Hit Economy: Jobs for College Grads.
[5] There is a significant likelihood that the COVID-19 problem is not going away, even if economies can “bend the trend line” with respect to new cases.
Bending the trend line has to do with trying to keep hospitals and medical providers from being overwhelmed. It is likely to mean that herd immunity is built up slowly, making repeat outbreaks more likely. Thus, if social isolation is stopped, COVID-19 illnesses can be expected to revisit prior locations. We know that this has been an issue in the past. The Spanish Flu epidemic came in three waves, over the years 1918-1919. The second wave was the most deadly.
A recent study by members of the Harvard School of Public Health says that the COVID-19 epidemic may appear in waves until into 2022. In fact, it could be back on a seasonal basis thereafter. It also indicates that more than one period of social distancing is likely to be required:
“A single period of social distancing will not be sufficient to prevent critical care capacities from being overwhelmed by the COVID-19 epidemic, because under any scenario considered it leaves enough of the population susceptible that a rebound in transmission after the end of the period will lead to an epidemic that exceeds this capacity.”
Thus, even if the COVID-19 problem seems to be fixed in a few weeks, it likely will be back again within a few months. With this level of uncertainty, businesses will not be willing to set up new operations. They will not hire many additional employees. The retired population will not run out and buy more tickets on cruise ships for next year. In fact, citizens are likely to continue to be worried about airplane flights being a place for transmitting illnesses, making the longer term prospects for the airline industry less optimistic.
Conclusion
The economy was already near the edge before COVID-19 hit. Wage and wealth disparity were big problems. Local populations of many areas objected to immigrants, fearing that the added population would reduce job opportunities for people who already lived there, among other things. As a result, many areas were experiencing protests because of unhappiness with the current economic situation.
The shutdowns temporarily cut back the protests, but they certainly do not fix the underlying situations. Instead, the shutdowns add to the number of people with very low wages or no income at all. The shutdowns also reduce the total quantity of goods and services available to purchase, regardless of how much money is added to the system. Many people will end up poorer, in some real sense.
As soon as the shutdowns end, it will be obvious that the world economy is in worse condition than it was before the shutdown. The longer the shutdowns last, the worse shape the world economy will be in. Thus, when businesses are restarted, we can expect even more protests and more divisive politics. Some governments may be overthrown, or they may collapse without being pushed. I fear that the world economy will be further down the road toward overall collapse.
https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2020/04/08/coronavirus-la-corsa-contro-il-tempo-per-trovare-200mila-braccianti-la-coldiretti-il-40-di-frutta-e-verdura-rischia-di-marcire-nei-campi-dai-voucher-alla-sanatoria-tutte-le-ipotesi-allo-studi/5762779/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1586327243
The race against time to find 200,000 workers to labor in the fields to pick crops in Italy. Between COVID and limits on migrant workers, there is a problem.
https://www.facebook.com/1518147318236235/posts/3115949745122643/
Those that might benefit from the virus bonds support them; those that would have to buy them to support those needing them do not. Those that have no interesting buying them stay neutral.
Nice to see the UK finally colored in grey again, just like a real independent country. Ma’am must be secretly very pleased she has her kingdom back.
How about instead of using that tired old ‘conspiracy’ label you adopt the phrase ‘Orchestrated Litany of Lies’ as a description for the manufactured hysteria.
Governments have long and dishonourable history in manipulation.
The use of the pejorative phrase ‘conspiracy theory’ seeks to discredit the people who are questioning their actions. Its a comfortable bolthole for those to scared to step out and take the Red Pill.
Or perhaps model of what may happen (or what has happened) in the view of the powers that be. What they would like us to believe happened.
This feisty lady who works as a hospital courier and frequently visits several hospitals makes some excellent points about how empty they are and how medical staff are too intimidated to talk, and she lets loose a few well-chosen expletives.
FE, grab a cup of coffee. You are going to enjoy the next ten minutes immensely.
“The ER rooms are empty”.
Who would have thought that it would be a good idea having contagious people lying around in ER rooms? Perhaps the doctors, no?
“Doctors are scared to speak out”:
Name one. There are 1.1 million doctors in the US, no one is willing to speak out? Really?
Leading causes of empty hospitals:
1. Scheduled medical procedures being canceled
2. People refrain from going to the hospitals scared to get infected
3. Lock-downs cause less accidents from humanoid escapades
4. People does not want to burden the medical staff with their petty illnesses
I got this bad habit called “thinking”. But don’t engage in that activity if you enjoy to indulge in d00merisms and consp1rac1es.
https://www.idlehearts.com/images/i-have-this-real-moron-thing-i-do-its-called-thinking.jpg
I await the video showing pandemonium in a US hospital.
I’ll even accept on that shows a big queue in the lobby.
I don’t expect that to be taken by a doctor because surely they would be too busy to take selfie-videos no?
Given the MSM had to PURCHASE the rights to use that Italian video….. I am betting that if someone can capture the White Whale (a busy hospital) on video —- they’d be able to make a few dineros selling it.
http://krapps.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/LadyHuhFINAL.jpg
Already had a coffee… I sense this deserves a fat goblet of red…….. ok …. ready set….
So the deaths are fake too ?
The thing is , and this has been noticed in many places :
– “usual” accidents have decreased a lot (like car accidents) for instance. Even strokes, not sure why
– People are getting scared to go to Hospitals, fearing to be in the middle of a covid-19 filled place.
No they are real.
Global Coronavirus Deaths Approach 90k
Flu – 650,000 Deaths Annually (I believe these deaths are real too)
https://www.globalresearch.ca/flu-bigger-concern-wuhan-virus-grabs-headlines/5701932
I wonder how people feel when I bust their bubbles like this.
I assume most don’t even realize their bubble has been busted… but for those who do:
Is there some sort of progression (like with grief)…..
Do you feel fooolish? S-illy? Insulted? Then angry… then do you hit this phase of acceptance where start to believe that you are not as smart as you thought you were?
But that would destroy your Ego … so does something kick and inside your brain (an as of yet unnamed defence mechanism) that causes you to Lash Out at the one who is only trying to help you?
Let’s put a name to that mechanism — let’s call it the Lash Mechanism…. if you give me an hour or so I’ll come back with a PHD thesis on that for you … just let me know if you want to learn more
Is it like — wow — I thought I was awesome swimming around in OFW eating all the juicy morsels….. I was like the king of the world!!!
But then this Fast Eddy Great White Shark showed up — and tore a big chunk out of OFW and blood was so thick I could barely see…. and that attracted more Great White Sharks….
And they are just hacking hunks of meat out of the OFW whale…. and now they are gobbling up the minnows and former kings of OFW….
Kinda like that … huh
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-f8XeacR8YBg/VmneNnKsvvI/AAAAAAAAAIY/ATNttfrkowg/s1600/jaws%2B2.gif
From Nomi Prinz:
https://riggedgame.blog/2020/04/07/wall-street-wins-again/
I’m not surprised if there are empty-ish hospitals. Maybe it’s a sign that the lockdowns are working (preventing COVID spread), and/or fear of the virus is massively changing behavior. I think even hospitals are being avoided (more than normal).
In the UK they are finding that even seriously ill or injured people are staying away from the hospitals out of fear and due to the lock-down, and then coming in presenting very late, thus in a much worse state and harder to treat successfully.
I’ve confirmed this with a friend who is a surgeon at one of the country’s major hospitals and who is now helping out on a COVID ward as well as doing general A&E work.
For first-hand reports from a young British doctor, try ‘Dr Hope’s Sick Notes’ on Youtube which give a good day to day view of how it is developing.
There are hospitals with 5 x the usual ICU demand at present, but great regional variability in the UK.
Xabier, any sane person stays away from a UK National Health Service hospital. Everything they do is controlled by ignorant middle managers with rules and checklists. And when he rules don’t work, they put you on the “Liverpool Care Path”, which means they deprive you of water and food until you die.
Nevertheless, life expectancies are higher in the UK than in the US, with our incredibly expensive program.
I expect that higher life expectancies in the UK as compared to the USA is due to better lifestyle choices, particularly diet, rather than our National Health Service, unless it’s the case that it’s much harder to get to see a doctor here. It has been demonstrated time and time again throughout the world that whenever doctors go on strike, death rates plummet. True, this is partly due to fewer deaths in surgery, but that doesn’t explain all of the difference.
Two nights ago I took a lady to A&E. She had stepped off the pavement to maintain social distancing from somebody coming towards her, but she stepped in a pothole and twisted her ankle. Ironic, I thought. She had a good reason to visit a hospital, because the medical system is good at cleaning wounds or setting broken bones. But for most conditions, intervention from doctors is best avoided and the body will heal itself given rest and a good diet.
Doctors and nurses rarely look healthy to me. If they can’t even look after their own health, why on earth would you trust them with your health? Robert wrote before how medical professionals and pharmaceutical companies exist for their own benefit, not the benefit of patients. Very true that.
This is a recent video that is part of Dr Hope’s Sick Notes. He talks about the fact that it is impossible when people come in whether they are COVID patients. They get bacterial pneumonia patients sent to the COVID section. They get unrecognized COVID patients on the non-COVID side.
Hmmm… let’s try using some logic here:
The MSM says their is pandemonium and queues at the hospitals.
But the hospitals are ghost town – you acknowledge that.
But it’s because the lockdown is working so there are very few Wuhan patients.
But the MSM says there are massive numbers of infected people — so many that the hospitals are overwhelmed…
But you disagree – there are not that many people at the hospitals because there are not so many Wuhan flu patients because of the lockdowns…
But the MSM says there are apocalyptic scenes at the hospitals —- but you disagree because how can their be apocalyptic scenes where there are not so many Wuhan sufferers because the lockdown is working.
If I have this circle j -erk wrong… feel free to break the cycle with some logic
I am wondering how OFW survived without FE…. I did pop in from time to time and observed the white bread quality mediocrity…. a few of the key players made an occasional guest appearance…
But GAWD what a depressing 6 months that must have been.
Tim, Xabier, World, Harry etc… you guys must have had to numb your minds with strong drink to survive…
Aren’t you hangers on and wanna be’s so happy that Fast and The Gang are back – in force?
Are you not praying that Ardern (the gr 3 teacher playing PM) extends the lockdown — because you know that FE has a LOT of time on his hands… to ENTERTAIN YOU?
You get all this content + contributions for the other Gods of OFW — for FREE!
When something is given to you for free… you really should not complain.
Did I mention a mate of mine build this really nice home in Bali — he wanted to get some good reviews so he let various friends stay for free… this is a place that rents for around 2k per night… so a weekend stay for free is a pretty good trade off in exchange for a review…
Well guess one — one of the guests reviewed the place and complained about the breakfast… you’ve got this place that’s worthy of filming a p o rrrrrn movie … a huge pool… free booze… just up from the beach…. and someone is complaining because there were no foooooking bananas or some sort of nonsense!!!!
My message to the moaners is — YOU will take your free foooooking CASTLE —- and you will accept whatever WE feed you for breakfast… and you will close your traps … and enjoy it.
John Galt is back. Along with his crew … are BACK.
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WelloffEllipticalAmericansaddlebred-small.gif
One possibility is that many people with corona like symptoms are just staying home and are avoiding hospitals so they are not quarantined. the messages we get from the media is sis that no one knows if a recovered person can EVER be clear of the virus .
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-particles-live-in-phlegm-poop-after-negative-diagnosis-2020-3
known infected people can never be trusted to not be a threat to public health. These people are basically social outcasts.
There are a lot of things we don’t know. Our coronavirus tests aren’t very good. Our antibody tests aren’t very good.
Now there is some indication that some recovered patients have low antibody levels. Newsweek is reporting COVID-19 reinfection risk questioned after low levels of antibodies found in recovered patients.
That information does not match with information coming from random samples in villages where it has been found that the people already have been quietly infected. But it does not say after how many weeks…
This would also make it difficult to let people stroll around freely when they recovered because the could become a new infected person. ouch.
There is so much out there that simply does not match!
Coronavirus.Is.Never.Going.Away
And we won’t hold together our societies long enough until a vaccine is rolled out (if there is a possibility of a vaccine to start off with)…
Yes possibly.
But why is the MSM insisting there is pandemonium?
I don’t expect an answer to that — cuz I have asked that 20x now…. and all I get is silence
Well, FE, there can be both. Overwhelmed hospitals in some areas. Emptier ones in other areas for the reasons I mentioned. I thought ye, of 500 iq, would be able to grasp this. But actually you long ago established you are not the sharpest tool in the shed. So I’m not surprised you don’t.
My observation about people speaking about their IQ is usually in contradiction with reality.
Being clever or not is totally irrelevant for curious people. Only elitist twatwaffles would bother about such measures of general cognitive capabilities.
The curious person will eventually always outpace the intelligent.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/cms/asset/568ef87f-8202-4561-92be-63260ef1134e/rsnr20170034f01.jpg
i always knew i had something in common with Einstien other than unruly hair
Thanks
‘Fast Eddy’s contributions …. are obviously the product of a 500-700 IQ.’ Albert Einstein
‘Fast Eddy is the geniuses’ genius’ Stephen Hawking
The problem is … no matter where I look … I cannot find pandemonium … I am googling … I am looking at Film My Hospital…. there is nothing.
If CBS can’t find pandemonium …. then maybe there is no pandemonium?
https://nypost.com/2020/04/01/cbs-admits-to-using-footage-from-italy-in-report-about-nyc/
huh
you forgot the bathroom mirror
Norm. Norm!!!!
Remember me? Fast Eddy…. and there’s Tim… and CTG…. And see – there’s Gail — under the disco light.
Tim — it probably wasn’t a great idea to give Norm 3 pills at the same time….
Let me see if I can bring him down…..
Moooon Norm. Moooooon.
M-O-O-N…..
https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/sudden_realization_star_wars.gif
The lockdowns (telling everyone to stay home and not go to the hospital unless they have corona only work) if they are in place. As soon as the lockdowns end, cases will go up and hospitals will be overwhelmed with corona cases and other cases.
I can’t believe there are people here who read this blog who really trust the media and establishment since they have been frequently dishonest with the public with all topics that are scientific.
They lied about electric cars and driverless car…and renewable energy….and fracking …but they are telling the truth about corona. Trust the Chinese government.
Trust the medical industry. Just keep the population quarantined in their homes forever and we’ll beat this virus.
Thanks for this.
Of course the vast majority of brainwashed fukkkwits that we share the planet (and OFC) with … will continue to hang on every shock headline coming out of the MSM….. and no matter how many empty hospitals they are shown … they will not doubt the narrative…
Here you go you brain dead cement heads… take a look at your pathetic selves:
https://youtu.be/LOEfL4k_zF8
This situation reinforces my assertion that the sooner we are eliminated … the better.
Come on block heads… can you cheer louder? I can’t hear you!!!! Louder. LOUDER!!!!
Sadly, I have to agree with FE. But now that the owners have complete blind obedience what will they do? Never let a crisis go to waste.
Ed, remember your response to someone a couple of weeks ago that Covid was just flu. That really shook me at the time. I felt, like many people do, that it wasn’t just flu but something much more severe, but that it was being over-hyped.
Now I see that wis so much hype and exaggeration and manipulation going on, it doesn’t necessarily have to be anything out of the ordinary. As far as I can see so far, the whole Covid scare could be being whipped up out of nothing more than a normal flue season.
We won’t know definitively until we see the next year’s overall mortality statistics. Will these Covid deaths be additional to the normal run of winter deaths, or will they be matched by a similar decrease in pneumonia deaths?
Imagine what they could have done with the 2017/18 flu season with 45M infected in the US – 810k hospitalized … 61k dead —– and tents set up to handle the overflow of patients… (those are updated numbers from https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2017-2018.htm)….
CBS could have shot their own ICU footage…. and wouldn’t have had to pay Getty for the Italian vid….
Apparently they had no use for a crisis at that time…. the CBs were obviously not desperate enough then.
So like any bad flu season … that one passed… nothing got locked down .. and life went on
Does anyone even remember hearing about that flu? I certainly don’t
out here in the islands, with a flattened curve, the local police have instituted a curfew from 11 pm until 5 am from Friday through Sunday. what’s up with that? muscle flexing?
Hi Tim – really interesting .. what sparked her off (link) ? Also, where is she from? Sounds like from a fairly sub-urban environment. Obviously bright and aware.. but we only tend to react to what is in our immediate environment. Corona virus seems primarily an issue of high density living – do listen to this (Bruce Shapiro is a highly respected and very straight commentator – living in Connecticut. – a regular on ABC (Australian!) radio). Seems there are very different worlds out there. https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/bruce-shapiros-america/12130676 (and listen to the rest of the program)
Sure it make it difficult to titrate the often screamingly opposite stories. Those of us in rural and remote areas are probably OK. However NONE of us will be unaffected by the chaos that follows!
Actually there is no opposing story… I beg someone to find a video showing pandemonium and massive queues at a hospital.
Yes – maybe those caught in the real hospital pandemonium don’t get a chance to generate videos – yes I agree it’s odd – but I wouldn’t discount the dynamics of a crazy situation. But even if we saw pandemonium – that’s just one data point. As I said – it seems an issue of high density – no surprise, and I understand that a number of “for profit” hospitals in the USA have shut their doors – as it has become unprofitable to operate. Profit before all.
I dont expect videos from nurses or doctors… they won’t take video in the ICU or ER generally…
But what about the areas outside the hospitals … the lobbies and waiting areas… what about the tents… if you look at Film My Hospital there are many videos of these areas at various hospitals and no patients at all… none
I have not seen a single video depicting pandemonium… nothing
Surely there should be loads of these videos — people just love to post videos … they video their food… their pets,… wouldn’t they be falling over each other to post videos of the pandemonium????
Oh btw – I have a mate in NYC — he hates when I send the vids of empty hospitals…. I said ok well why don’t you jump in the car and get some vids of the hospitals yourself then? Then we can see what’s really happening.
For some reason he won’t do that. If I was in NYC i would definitely be doing that
The mystery of the lack of any videos (or just flurry ones apparently shot with mobile phones from 2002) is one of the most intriguing aspects of many of the alleged terrorist attacks in Europe and in US.
I could mention the example of the disco in Orlando, or the Bataclan in Paris. But the most ridiculous of them all, maybe, is the famous killer-truck of Nice in 2016, that allegedly killed some 80 people and injured some 200. So, there was hundreds of people on the street, all equipped with topnotch smartphones, but the only footage we have is taken from a hotel’s balcony, 50 meters away and with trees in between, made by a german journalist who is married with a israeli politician and that, quite coincidentally, managed to be present at the alleged attacks in Munich a week later! is this credible? Of course it is. I believe everything i see on telly.
JMS – save this to your phone and show it to the doorman … your name is also on the list but you also need to show the phot.
https://www.uniqhotels.com/media/hotels/14/25.jpg
BOOM
NASA scientist David McKay explained that “There are isotopes in Moon rocks, isotopes we don’t normally find on Earth, that were created by nuclear reactions with the highest-energy cosmic rays.” The article went on to explain how “Earth is spared from such radiation by our protective atmosphere and magnetosphere.
Even if scientists wanted to make something like a Moon rock by, say, bombarding an Earth rock with high energy atomic nuclei, they couldn’t. Earth’s most powerful particle accelerators can’t energize particles to match the most potent cosmic rays, which are themselves accelerated in supernova blastwaves and in the violent cores of galaxies.”
So one of the reasons that we know the Moon rocks are real, you see, is because they were blasted with ridiculously high levels of radiation while sitting on the surface of the Moon.
And our astronauts, one would assume, would have been blasted with the very same ridiculously high levels of radiation, but since this was NASA’s attempt at a ‘debunking’ article, they apparently would prefer that you don’t spend too much time analyzing what they have to say.
FE, it’s about the length of exposure, not just the energy intensity. the astronauts were only visiting for a short time. the rocks have been there geting exposed for hundreds of millions if not billions of years. capice?
thanks, dooomphd…
does everyone know you have a phd in science?
that’s quite impressive…
probably not, but you can just call me Herr Professor Doctor. (just kidding).
Come on, we know you got expelled from Empire State University for conducting forbidden experiments in your dorm room. Sheesh, you really lost face with that incident!
no, but i did cause the evacuation of our summer high school chemistry classroom by making “salt volcanoes” in erlenmeyer flasks that were erupting chlorine gas from reduction of salt (NaCl) with ammonium hydroxide. looked cool, but forgot about the toxicity of dense chlorine gas, a.k.a. mustard gas of WWI trench warfare fame. i think i still got an A grade in that class, a miracle of forgiveness from the instructor for which i remain grateful.
(Reference to the comic book Dr. Doom, for those who didn’t get it.)
doomphd, if you think chlorine is “mustard gas”, I’m surprised you passed chemistry. Its chemical formula is (Cl-Ch2-Ch2)2-S. As my grandfather found out in the trenches.
Robert, you caught me. Yes, mustard gas is a more complicated formula and contains sulfur as well as chlorine. The sulfur is probably what gives the yellow “mustard” color. Chorine gas is nevertheless also toxic, at least my instructor thought enough of it to evacate the lab/classroom. BTW, we put the flasks on an open window sill and the wind blew the gas away, and no one was hanging around outside, thankfully.
That’s not what he says.
I would paste the entire explanation here but I doubt Gail will appreciate me doing that
Read the entire paper.
And stop wasting my time.
What you need to wrap around that large brain is the fact that the Apollo astronauts did indeed take a radiation dose on their Moon trips. It was a calculated risk, along with all the other risks they were taking.
Radiation doses from solar and cosmic sources are serious concerns for all animal space travellors, especially anyone planning to stay up there for prolonged periods. Even the circuit boards can only take so much dosage before they cease to function properly.
I suggest you chew on this very slowly — otherwise you will choke…..
On June 24, 2005, NASA made this rather remarkable admission: “NASA’s Vision for Space Exploration calls for a return to the Moon as preparation for even longer journeys to Mars and beyond. But there’s a potential showstopper: radiation.
Space beyond low-Earth orbit is awash with intense radiation from the Sun and from deep galactic sources such as supernovas …
Finding a good shield is important.”
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/24jun_electrostatics.htm
You’re damn right finding a good shield is important!! Back in the 1960s, of course, we didn’t let a little thing like space radiation get in the way of us beating the Ruskies to the Moon. But now, I guess, being that we are more cultured and sophisticated, we want to do it the right way so we have to come up with some way of shielding our spaceships.
And our temporary Moon bases. And figuring out how to do that, according to NASA, could be a real “showstopper.”
As NASA notes, “the most common way to deal with radiation is simply to physically block it, as the thick concrete around a nuclear reactor does. But making spaceships from concrete is not an option.”
Lead, which is considerably denser than concrete, is actually the preferred material to use for radiation shielding, but lead also isn’t very popular with spaceship designers. In fact, word on the street is that one of the main reasons the Soviets never made it to the Moon was because their scientists calculated that four feet of lead shielding would be required to protect their astronauts, and those same scientists apparently felt that spaceships wouldn’t fly all that well when clad in four feet of lead.
Now NASA is thinking outside the box and contemplating using ‘force fields’ to repel the radiation, a seemingly ridiculous idea that, whether workable in the future or not, certainly wasn’t available to NASA in the 1960s.
Below is NASA’s own artist rendering of a proposed ‘force field’ radiation shield that would allow astronauts to work safely on the Moon.
As you may have noticed in the earlier photos of the lunar modules, our guys didn’t bring anything like that with them on their, uhmm, earlier missions to the Moon. And you may have also noticed that the modules did not have any type of physical shielding.
How then did they do it? My guess is that the answer lies in that gold foil wrap. While it may look like an amateurish attempt to make the modules appear more ‘high-tech,’ I have a hunch that what we are looking at is another example of the lost technology of the 1960s – this time in the form of a highly-advanced superpolymer that provided maximum radiation shielding while adding virtually no weight. So all we have to do is track down a few leftover rolls of that stuff and we should be well on our way to sending guys back to the Moon.
According to Charles Buhler, a NASA scientist currently working on the force field concept, “Using electric fields to repel radiation was one of the first ideas back in the 1950s, when scientists started to look at the problem of protecting astronauts from radiation.
They quickly dropped the idea though because it seemed like the high voltages needed and the awkward designs that they thought would be necessary … would make such an electric shield impractical.”
What a real journalist would have asked here, of course, is: “After dropping the electric shield concept, exactly what did they decide to use to get our astronauts safely to the Moon and back on the Apollo missions?
And why can’t we do the same thing now, rather than reinventing the wheel? Don’t you guys have some of that gold foil in a closet somewhere?” No one in the American media, of course, bothered to ask such painfully obvious questions.
http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/moondoggie-3/
Fast, i think the simplest answer is the Apollo astronauts took the radiation hit for the country. They probably got lucky with no supernovas during their short visits, but they were getting exposed to the solar flux on the RT journey out, back and on the Lunar surface.
Most of them lived long lives, so they missed any serious cancer. Others, that served in the US military nuclear testing programs, and many heroes of the Chernobyl disaster, did not get so lucky and died young of cancer or radiation sickness.
the photoshoppers will have a field day
I have pasted the entire commentary but that’s on hold – you can go to essay 3 roughly half way down the page to read it …. during recess time (if you are not on duty).
Do you miss your colleagues Jacinda and Justin? Do they keep in touch now that they are the most famous two incompetents on the planet?
Eddy, out of curiosity, what was your college major? Was it journalism?
I am guessing science fiction… 😉
LOL!
That was the plan… I was reading a lot of books from former Nam-era journalists and the idea of daily adrenaline hits + getting wasted and hooking up was … very appealing.
But I got steared wrong by HS guidance — told I needed to type 40 words and speak French …
I considered a PHD in quantum physics (I was accepted into the programme at MIT without having to complete undergrad or a masters) but opted for History because that’s always been an interest of mine.
Skip to 1:57 of this… heading INTO the madness…. more exciting than the cab right home with a hottie for a club … no?
My biggest regret is finishing school — being unsure of what to do — ending up in business — instead of doing what Tim Hetherington did…. (and the closest M Fast will let me get to that is the HK protests… a touch of Cairo… and the Haiti Quake…. the rest gets vetoed… even though I tell her the life insurance pays no matter what…) Hetherington exists Libya in a bag at the end … (as is obvious from the title)….
This is one of the most compelling documentaries ever made — I bet Tim had zero regrets:
https://youtu.be/QJ2dGAECRyc
as long as ‘fast’ doesnt involve evading creditors or jealous husbands
Norm – 3rd comment I open and there you are — 3rd time lucky…
So — are ‘in’ for the big night? Are you on the ‘team’
We’ve got your jersey ready — if you are on board, just let us know your number and we’ll finish it
https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server400/b247c/products/6077/images/53734/shack_60__30244.1424292039.1280.1280.jpg
still nothing that deals with the badly created photos that ‘prove’ the moon thing never happened
or the briefly touched on comment, i think, that might have suggested 9/11 was a ‘plot’ of some kind which takes conspiracy out of harmless nonsense into a more dangerous territory and serious loonyland,
Rather harks back to the jesusfreaks, as I said, where one points out, however gently, that there’s a big gaping hole somewhere, they just change tack to something equally fatuous and meaningless which only ‘they’ understand.
Thus, because one hasn’t a clue what they are talking about, (and nobody does) one is obviously someone of lesser intellect and thus stupid. Proof you see.
The Don uses the same technique. It’s quite common. Though to be fair, he hasn’t as yet started speaking in tongues like his religious advisor, Paula White.
But give him time.
———————-
though why i keep juggling these balls of nothingness i can’t quite figure out.
playing wordball is only worthwhile with an opponent of equal skill, rather than a dogmatic ranter
must be the temporary social isolation
The point about the message of Jesus is that the message could very well be true, even if Jesus never lived or if Jesus didn’t do the things that it is said he did.
As the world got more sources of energy supplies, it needed a different message than that given in the Old Testament. The new message that was given was more of “Love your neighbor as yourself.” It was a new message that was needed in a time of increasing trade. The story wasn’t just about keeping the ten commandments, plus a whole lot of other laws, and God would reward you, here on earth.
How we need to live on this earth depends on the energy supplies available to us, and this keeps changing, so the message needs to change. It is really a self-organized message–what works at the time. Governments want to present their own view of how we should live. China has a message that people can be forced to do what the central government tells them to. Other countries are now following CHina’s lead.
you are quite correct Gail
The problem arises when the Jesus freaks, (as opposed to normal followers of the given faith of the Christian church) convince themselves that blind faith in the supernatural will, in some way yet unknown, resolve the nonsense of ‘infinite growth and infinite energy availability’ into some kind of utopia, exclusive to their version of Christianity which has no bearing on the laws of physics.
Jesus will only return to a world when it has been made fit for his return.
All raving nonsense of course, but it carries a message of warning and hate to those who do not conform. I firmly believe Atwood set it out very clearly.
If society breaks down, this is where chaos will start. And it will be ordinary people who will suffer. Infinite energy cannot be—but jesus has promised it, so there must be something wrong with the world preventing it
ergo—purge the world!
and given the chance these people will do it. If the laws of physics prevent the return of the messiah, then the laws of physics are wrong and must be changed. It is still the same god of Galileo, the same belief system.
We make the mistake in thinking we are now ‘different’
We are not.
Totally insane, yet members of your government actually say it. (inhofe et al)
Trump is an atheist opportunist, but Pence and Pompeo have openly talked of rapture and second coming. Pence is certain that god put him as VP to take over as POTUS.
One can only assume they believe it. We see them as nuts—millions don’t
Pence has a horrendous record of pronouncements against those who do not share his twisted views of religion. One can only assume he would try to enact them if he could
Norm… your attacks on Trump are a bad idea. He’s a puppet. He doesn’t matter.
This is stuff we Dream Teamers learned when we are in the amateur leagues…
Your Dream Team second chance is turning to dust….
Norm – save yourself some time.
Just say — look guys — I don’t get it. It’s too hard. I don’t belong on the team. I am a gas station attendant and I am actually happy with that. I don’t know what I was thinking trying out for the Dream Team.
(deep down I hope you get it … but are unable to admit you were wrong – I think there’s about a 3% chance of that….)
Eddy, does the article say how the NASA got the rocks they analyzed?
Some of them are actually not rocks — they are petrified wood from Arizona — the astronauts from the first fa ke landing gifted some of those to the Dutch government …. they found out only a few years ago that they were f ake.
The author also suggests that the others are just pieces of asteroids that are quite easy to find on earth.
And the kicker (you really have to read it) — they say the rocks on the moon are bombarded with intense radiation all the time — that’s what makes them ‘different’ — but they fail to explain how the astronauts could survive in this intense radiation.
That’s the problem when you tell such a complicated lie and try to perpetuate it…. eventually you get caught in it. Actually not really a problem because most people enjoy being lied to… so it seems.
Gail, if you don’t want to lose the integrity of the comments section, you need to do something. I don’t come here to read hundreds of ridiculous comments about con spiracies.
Define ridiculous?
It is rather funny, you don’t like conspiracies yet governments and leaders have conspired across the globe to lock down countries and enforce draconian measures. You do not see the conspiracy in that?
These same people have just imploded the economy, even more so then if the energy clock were to run out, yet you do not believe in conspiracy. Do you not see these government fools enacting all kinds of measures to keep people inside? Do you see the medical doctors conspiring with government officials on what to do? All over something that has not and will not kill any more than the regular seasonal flu.
Your comments are laughable sir and the hallmark of a one track mind.
COVID-19 does have more deaths than the regular seasonal flu, but not as many as the models assumed.
Doctors can see only one side of the issue. Shutdowns did work in the past, in fairly different situations than we have today. At the early date they were making the decisions, they did not realize that this virus is different. And this global economy is very different from economies we had in the past.
If we cannot really control the virus much at all by shutdowns (besides the shutdowns being terribly damaging to the economy), we may be forced to live with it, plus whatever treatments we can find to mitigate its damage.
++++++++++++++
To paraphrase Barbara Streisand, commenters coming into the comments section and complaining about other people’s comments in the comments section are the most ridiculous commenters in the world.
Isn’t there enough censorship in the world without you turning up here and demanding the site owner add to her burden by engaging in more of it? Perhaps you’d be happier if she just shut the comments down completely on the very reasonable grounds that any comment might upset, offend of irritate somebody, and we can’t have that.
If you really want to contribute to improving the comments section, try to post something that will be universally appreciated. And if at first you don’t succeed, try, try again.
I thought OFW was about pursuing
http://www.stjohnstruro.ca/images/epif.png
Dave has reached out to us – from the grave — and given us the greatest one ever. FAR more interesting that the energy one…. this exposes the greatest ho .ax of all time (rivalling the Je.sus hoa.x)
How Dare We! dishonour Dave and his life’s work. How Dare anyone suggest the brilliant anecdotes be expunged from OFW – the home of the Core — the abode of thinkers and geniuses.
How Dare the weaklings and hangers on and wannabes insult Gail and OFW with their demands for censorship.
Shame!!! Double triple shame!
Crawl back into your holes and wallow in your delusion and ignorance…
For you are NOT worthy.
(are you not entertained…?)
You are the same people who would crucify Christ — if there was such an entity — and he returned to offer us salvation from the Woohan Virus.
Uh, who is Dave?
The now-deceased author of the “Wagging the Moondoggie” site.
https://www.spreaker.com/user/oppermanreport/dave-mcgowan-moon-landing-hoax
A website can either have a reasoned discussion, or go down hill with ridiculous comments not worth reading. Over the last year or so this has mostly been a reasonable site of discussion of problems facing all of us.
The sites where there the signal to noise ratio just stops reasoned discussion are the majority I’ve found. People just promoting their own beliefs without much thought. If you want reasonable people to contribute, you cut the noise factor as Tim Morgan has done on his site. You are still free to express views, without censorship.
It’s Gail’s choice to make this a reasonable place for discussion or lose a lot of valuable contributors, and be regarded as another loony site..
When reasonable people state their thoughts they do not need to go on and on with 50+ posts on the same theme, all in the space of a day or so. FE came back with some very good posts, earlier, but has descended into repetitave tripe…
I mostly agree. The “pandemic is fake” garbage is really disgusting, doesn’t belong here. Moon landing hoax garbage is about as far off-topic as you can get. It’s becoming a wasteland here. People should be respectful of the space Gail provides us all and not throw garbage in it.
Since John Galt and his merry band came back in force over the past month — what happened?
How many thousand comments on that last article?
Gail is no fooooool — she can see that the excerpts from Dave’s site are powerful…. and serve a purpose that can make OFW a better place — because they MIGHT just get more people to open their eyes across a range of topics….
Fast Eddy is not riding that horse out of spite … he is riding it because it is true genius. It is one of the most important series of essays that exist. They blow to pieces a 50 year old scam. They are IMPORTANT.
If you can’t ‘get it’ then I feel nothing but pity and disdain for you. It is you who do not belong
Unless of course Gail’s goal here is not truth — but mediocrity. I don’t think that is the plan… I hope not.
These are not the musings of crackpots…. in all seriousness — you have some of the greatest minds on the planet in agreement with what Dave has written.
This is not horn blowing … we are what we are … (and you could be too… )
If we were the best soccer team on the planet… or the best basketball team — and we let you know that … (by winning … always winning… always scoring the beautiful goals….) … would you say — you guys are crap?
Would you mock Lebron James and want him booted of the court so that you weaklings could bring things down the level of a grade 3 recess class????? Or would you admire Lebron and want to emulate his greatness?
Are you so petty and pathetic as to want the DREAM TEAM hoofed off the court so you can return to pretending you are ‘deep thinkers’
You do know that ‘because’ does not quality as deep thought — unless you are 5 years old….
So you would have OFW revert to checkers… when this is a world class chess match?
Come now….
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-FrdZIsBJZJg/UBaSJ6ixp-I/AAAAAAAAB9Y/XXLfxGvQTPk/s1600/are-you-not-entertained.gif
your horse is a genius?
Was he the one in all those old Roy Rogers movies?
I thought he’d been put out the grass years ago
yup
Very well said. Thank you, Tim.
This does bring out an interesting social phenomenon–namely, that the Doomster crowd also attracts believers in the moon landing hoax, the Sandy Hook hoax, the Elders of Zion, and a dozen competing non-mainstream coronavirus theories. We even had a favorable citation of David Icke, though not for his signature Lizard People theory.
(God only knows which of these terms got me modded. Was it “h o a x” or “Z i o n”?)
Perhaps, the Doomster crowd is willing to look at two different versions of the “truth.” The one portrayed by main street media, and other versions that various groups have figured out on their own. We have an awfully lot of government-sponsored views of situations that are based on mostly on hopium and a desire to tell the people a story that they want to hear, rather than on common sense.
– The economy can be expected to grow forever. At most, there will be a small dip because of coronavirus shutdowns.
– With this pattern of unending growth, climate change will be our biggest problem.
– Wind and solar will save us from climate change.
– Electricity can substitute for our current mix of energy products.
– The benefit of all vaccines outweighs their problems, no matter how much mercury and aluminum products have been added.
– If we can defeat COVID-19 locally with a few weeks of shutdowns, the COVID-19 problem will magically disappear forever.
– If a world money supply can be started, it can be used to work around the problems caused by the shutdowns. Or central bank interventions can save the day.
–Leader X will solve all of our problems.
Perhaps, the Doomster crowd is willing to look at two different versions of the “truth.” The one portrayed by main street media, and other versions that various groups have figured out on their own. We have an awfully lot of government-sponsored views of situations that are based on mostly on hopium and a desire to tell the people a story that they want to hear, rather than on common sense.
While I totally agree with the other points
however….
>– The benefit of all vaccines outweighs their problems, no matter how much mercury and aluminum products have been added.<
That one, has been well put to bed – thiomersal has been discontinued (and it has vanishingly small amounts of mercury anyway and people better stop taking antacid tablets which are largely Aluminum hydroxide. Sadly the anti vax fear dept sees well entrenched.
Vaccines, like any drug, are not all the same or of equal quality and safety. Nor are their intended recipients all the same. For some fairly rigorous research on how some vaccines appear to have net harmful effects in some settings, see the work of Peter Aaby.
Thanks – a search of peter lead me here — if you put out a vaccine that has not thoroughly tested… you can wreak a whole lot of damage ….. in fact the damage can be worse than if you just done nothing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-specific_effect_of_vaccines
The problem is that the MSM and truth should never be mentioned on the same day.
As we can see —- the MSM consists of thousands of tentacles — that are all connected to Don Draper’s office:
https://youtu.be/ksb3KD6DfSI
It’s a Giant Propaganda Machine.
Funny – that video and others are all over the web — and even if you show that to someone they will still insist the MSM is credible.
Truth is anathema to the MSM. Ya sure you might get a story here and there that is true (they do that so that they can say hang on — remember that My Lai story or….) … the sports scores are true — the weather…
But anything of substance… is coming straight off the Don Draper presses.
Not sure if anyone recalls the scene from Mad Men … Don gets his partnership and the old guy who owns the agency sits him down and says something like ‘you now have a seat at the table and get so see how it all works’ something to that effect.
I interpret that as — our job is to make and manage the Matrix — now that you are in the C Suite — you get to go behind the curtain…
Dave can you take you behind the curtain …
Hide-away.
I agree with you that the comments section is being ambushed by a fair bit of wasted space but I am not sure if Gail should intervene just yet. I always read the new articles from Gail and I appreciate her common sense style of writing. I have stopped visiting some other sites because of the amount of personal attacks which dominate the comments section.
I am posting for the first time here. I am trying to learn and absorb, not necessarily to comment. Personally I feel somewhat anxious and uncertain about the whole situation and as time goes by this feeling gets worse. I fail to comprehend how there can be so many commentators on this site who are so certain of themselves and their predicted outcomes. Humility and reflection swamped by a flood of hubris. Keep up the good work please Gail.
A good deal of humility in predictions is definitely warranted.
I would never have guessed that in modern times, leaders around the world would shut down economies. Perhaps China would, because of its control of the economy and feelings of guilt about letting out a virus out into the environment that researchers thought could be very damaging. But why would everyone else follow suit? I didn’t think about the huge concern of citizens, pushing the closures along.
One thing I have always wondered about was why we never went back to the moon’s surface, if getting there and back was as easy as it seemed to be. The theory discussed would answer that question. It would also raise questions about Elon Musk’ plans for future space travel.
It was easy?
What would the mission to the moon be? Collect rocks?
when you make a journey–it can only have 2 purposes
1 employment (that also covers food, schools health etc)
2 Recreation
An employment journey, by definition, must generate a return greater than the cost of the journey itself.
if your place of ‘work’ is a mile away, your wages would have to be sufficient to give you a profit after walking there
if your place of work is 20 miles away, your wages (ie the net profit for doing the journey 5 times a week)must bring sufficient wages to cover your energy costs for a 40 mile round trip each day. ie you need transport. plus everything else.
This arithmetic holds up for any multiplier
If your place of ‘work’ is 230000 miles away, the same figures apply, the return on the costs of the trip, must be greater than the cost of the trip itself.
There was and is, nothing on the moon which exceeds in value the cost of getting there, which explains why no commercial ventures followed.. the old EROEI problem.
A solid gold asteroid? Great— 5m tons of gold, We’ll all be rich.
Well, no we won’t. 5m tons of gold would wreck the world’s economic system.
50 trn barrels of oil then? Nope, oil is worth northing till you burn it. We wouldnt have such burning capacity, and we couldn’t absorb all the ‘stuff’ that was produced anyway. (and you’d have to ship it here)
Ship it to other planets then —-but to what purpose?
Remember our imagined wealth is solely derived from setting fire to things. Nothing else.
no resource is usable in current human terms without heat input
If you slip into Journey ‘2’, Recreation. Then the moon trip makes sense. We are inherently curious.What did they bring back? Souvenirs and photographs. Which is what most of us bring back from a holiday.
which is exactly what it was
and exactly why nobody went back. (hoaxers nothwithstanding)
very fine thoughts again… thanks…
Actually, the same people who trumpeted what a great feat the moon landings were also trumpeted their conviction that Apollo was just a prelude to a permanent Moon base. NASA was telling us in the early 1970s that they were planning to land a man on Mars by the late 1980s. There was going to be a Hilton Hotel in earth orbit by 2001 just like in the movie, etc., etc.
A very important point, Apollo was a soap opera with plenty of drama and thrills and spills that helped give the US some cover for its role the atrocities of the Vietnam War—a great power that goes to the moon and invents velcro and teflon can’t be all bad!—and once that war was over, the Apollo program was no longer needed and so it was quietly abandoned ahed of time. The initial plan to fly up to Apollo 20 would have given the US two extra years of feel-good coverage. But in the event, they were able to stop at 17.
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/32/ba/74/32ba74a6195cfc4e9c49eae524557b31–flat-earth-cover-up.jpg
thanks, T G…
I agree that it was good cover for Nam…
I’m sure they gave up on Mars once they did the math…
though some persons in this present day didn’t get the message…
to Mars! then on to the stars!
I’ve seen it mentioned elsewhere about how we are now in a predicament, a lot more than just a large problem.
With the whole Coronavirus threat, the many ‘solutions’ I’ve seen about just relaxing lockdown, or not instituting one in the first place, don’t seem to pass the scrutiny test. The virus was destroying BAU anyway. We simply do not have a modern economy that can handle a major pandemic. All the prior ones were minor, so the ‘west’ decided they were aberrations that happened in third world countries from time to time.
Instead we found a pandemic that can rip through our western lifestyles, and before governments were closing BAU down, we already had a massive change in the way people were doing things. In this country a lot of big businesses had already moved to a work from home strategy, restaurants had a huge fall in patronage, people redirected spending to staples (especially TP etc).
The economy was taking a huge hit anyway. Businesses had to protect employees for legal reasons, so a sniff of the virus was closing businesses down, left right and centre.
This virus is our predicament, we have trapped ourselves, not by lockdowns, but by setting up a society that cannot handle a pandemic without imploding upon itself.
Governments of all persuasions are not led by any people in charge ‘of everything’ as per the con.spiracy theorists. Unfortunately they more resemble a rabble. It would be a lot less scary if there WAS a plan. Perhaps it is just wishful thinking by those that complain/post the most about these things?
Economists are likewise flying blind in this pandemic, as their theories and research do NOT cover an event like this, so they are making it up with advice to governments.
Just as we have been discussing how col lapse happens for years here, about the energy predicament, we have just maybe found another predicament that leads to col lapse. We seem to have taken the first giant step down a seneca cliff, can we start to go up again, or just continue to roll down hill? As debt and the entire global supply chains col apse around us, going down the hill looks most likely.
Right now the prep pers are not looking so dumb after all.
thanks, Hide away…
the economy was wobbling as of 2019… now it’s going downhill fast…
the hill is definitely steep right now, but we can’t see up ahead…
I’m guessing it flattens out much farther down…
that might be too optimistic…
All over the world, men would sit in cafes and chew over the evidence for the latest conspiracy, from Cairo to Teheran, Marrakesh to Baghdad, Madrid to Rome.
Conspiracy theories are essentially comforting: even if you are a poor unconnected schmuck – , even billions – one of millions getting trodden upon, you can feel wise to the plot, identify the guilty. and tut tut with your cronies.
Of course, it doesn’t mean that someone, somewhere, doesn’t have plans for you; but I’d agree that in all of this we just see an utter mess, not a grand orchestrated event.
If it was planned, they are blowing themselves up as well.
I actually am not comforted by conspiracy theories — most of them are nonsense.
I suspect that those who want to keep people off the trail of the opps that are secret but real… invent these other (ridiculous) theories so that it creates a giant muddle… and people just ignore the whole lot
When I discover that something most people believe in (including yours truly) … something so totally massive (and I mean massive beyond the WMD conspiracy …) is fale…. that actually makes me uncomfortable… disorientated even.
See below the introduction on Moondoggie 1 …
I have questioned the story since watching Apollo about 6 months ago. Before that I never really thought much about it and just assumed we probably went to the moo n.
But reading these essays (now on 6)… he has so completely dismantled the entire narrative that if anyone were to actually read this stuff… you’d just sit there shaking your head… as I am
As stated in the essay — you then begin to question EVERYTHING. If this moo n thing can be false — something I’ve been sure was true since I was a kid…then how extensive and how deep is this rabbit hole????
Where does is start – and where does it end? Has my entire life been a mirage… a hallucination?
Have I been lead around by the nose for 50+ years with the the truth in front of me the whole time but being unable to perceive it.
Do I need to re-examine everything? Where do I even start?
Like Jack Nicholson said — we do not really want the truth — because we cannot handle it.
That I am quite confident is true. It explains why so many people won’t read these essays. To ‘see’ can be … mentally…. disorientating…
For some it could quite possibly lead to a mental breakdown… and I do not say that in jest.
And yet, despite the fact that it was a relatively benign lie, there is a tremendous reluctance among the American people to let go of the notion that we sent men to the Moon. There are a couple of reasons for that, one of them being that there is a romanticized notion that those were great years – years when one was proud to be an American. And in this day and age, people need that kind of romanticized nostalgia to cling to.
But that is not the main reason that people cling so tenaciously, often even angrily, to what is essentially the adult version of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. What primarily motivates them is fear. But it is not the lie itself that scares people; it is what that lie says about the world around us and how it really functions.
For if NASA was able to pull off such an outrageous hoax before the entire world, and then keep that lie in place for four decades, what does that say about the control of the information we receive? What does that say about the media, and the scientific community, and the educational community, and all the other institutions we depend on to tell us the truth? What does that say about the very nature of the world we live in?
That is what scares the hell out of people and prevents them from even considering the possibility that they could have been so thoroughly duped. It’s not being lied to about the Moon landings that people have a problem with, it is the realization that comes with that revelation: if they could lie about that, they could lie about anything.
Just off skype with one of my Bali mates… he was expecting a deluge of virus cases by now… that’s not happening.
What is happening is that there that there are epic numbers of break ins and thefts. He has fired his security and has taken on a fellow who he helped out of big jam years ago and got sorted with a van and helped him establish a business driving tourists around. He trusts this guy with his life.
This is the reality.
Another anecdote – we have many contacts in the Philippines including many nurses. They are all reporting no influx in wuhan patients. One mentioned that their hospital has 3 Wuhans.
This is the reality.
What you see on the MSM is fear-mongering. Yes there is a flu in circulation. When isn’t there???
42 MILLION flu infections in the US in 2017/18.
650,000 people die from THE FLU in most years.
What part of this can you not understand? Feel free to ask questions.
There has been some speculation to the effect that the coronavirus doesn’t survive so well in the tropics.
So why is the Philippines locked down tight — with soldiers on shoot to kill orders?
With starvation creeping in….
Two different problems seem to have the same solution:
(1) Too many people protesting poor living conditions.
(2) A new virus, that may or may not be a problem.
If everyone stays inside, the protests might stop for a bit. The virus might be passed around less. But the economy tends to implode, as a side effect.
Shoot a few people. They’ll tend to stay inside.
And if you PR it right… most people will blow sweet kisses to the soldiers…. because the The Virus is the real enemy.
That’s what they did in Cairo some years ago …. they are to this day … still inside (or behaving like pet poodles… even though the situation is actually worse than ever)
I think you have found a good way to describe our predicament:
This virus is our predicament, we have trapped ourselves, not by lockdowns, but by setting up a society that cannot handle a pandemic without imploding upon itself.
“governments of all persuasions are not led by any people in charge ‘of everything” There are plenty of centralized or simpler societies where a small number of people make all the major decisions. more complexities, there are more decision makers and on the surface they don’t appear to agree (China and India are rivals) (progressives and conservatives) but they generally seem to agree that technology is good and economic growth is good. Those who tend to go against the grain, tend to have examples made out of them. Sometimes, as we saw in Iraq, making examples/intimidation were staged. It made no sense for Saddam to turn against the people who put in him power but there are certain things that are agreed on and the purpose of the elites is to keep everyone behaving a certain way. There’s a reason why there is a campaign against “fake news” and “hate speech” and it’s because there are certain myths paramount to social stability that must not be questioned.
Norman — are you tossing and turning up their in the UK? We can’t wait for you to wake up … have a coffee — then weigh in on The Epiphany.
There are billions upon billions of people waiting to hear from you.
This is your Churchill moment.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jDP6XEbYtOw/maxresdefault.jpg
https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/04/07/andrew-cuomo-use-of-hydroxychloroquine-anecdotally-positive-in-new-york-hospitals/
“At the briefing, the governor noted that the antimalarial drug had reportedly helped many people infected with the disease, but official scientific data was yet to come…”
According to Charles Buhler, a NASA scientist currently working on the force field concept, “Using electric fields to repel radiation was one of the first ideas back in the 1950s, when scientists started to look at the problem of protecting astronauts from radiation.
They quickly dropped the idea though because it seemed like the high voltages needed and the awkward designs that they thought would be necessary … would make such an electric shield impractical.”
What a real journalist would have asked here, of course, is: “After dropping the electric shield concept, exactly what did they decide to use to get our astronauts safely to the Moon and back on the Apollo missions? And why can’t we do the same thing now, rather than reinventing the wheel?
Don’t you guys have some of that gold foil in a closet somewhere?” No one in the American media, of course, bothered to ask such painfully obvious questions.
The Van Allen Belts are not the problem rather:
On June 24, 2005, NASA made this rather remarkable admission:
“NASA’s Vision for Space Exploration calls for a return to the Moon as preparation for even longer journeys to Mars and beyond. But there’s a potential showstopper: radiation.
Space beyond low-Earth orbit is awash with intense radiation from the Sun and from deep galactic sources such as supernovas …
Finding a good shield is important.”
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/24jun_electrostatics.htm
You’re damn right finding a good shield is important!! Back in the 1960s, of course, we didn’t let a little thing like space radiation get in the way of us beating the Ruskies to the Moon. But now, I guess, being that we are more cultured and sophisticated, we want to do it the right way so we have to come up with some way of shielding our spaceships.
As NASA notes, “the most common way to deal with radiation is simply to physically block it, as the thick concrete around a nuclear reactor does. But making spaceships from concrete is not an option.”
Lead, which is considerably denser than concrete, is actually the preferred material to use for radiation shielding, but lead also isn’t very popular with spaceship designers.
In fact, word on the street is that one of the main reasons the Soviets never made it to the Moon was because their scientists calculated that four feet of lead shielding would be required to protect their astronauts, and those same scientists apparently felt that spaceships wouldn’t fly all that well when clad in four feet of lead.
Ok my little semi-DelusiSTANIS…. that’s enough for now … you digest that first…. then come back for more…. or if you feel up to crossing into RealitySTAN…. here’s the key http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/moondoggie/
I heartily recommend the articles collected in “Wagging the Moondoggie”. They are a gem of conspiracy theory selective quoting and special pleading. Take in small doses, as you would any other broad comedy act.
Hey Bob — since you are such a genius — and Dave is not hear to deal with you…
Answer this.
You can see the photos of the landing contraption. They used the SAME design for every landing.
Yet in the later landings they have dune buggy sitting out front of the contraption.
Did they strap the dune buggy to the roof of the contraption? It’s not exactly the size of a bicycle…. and I don’t think it would fit inside that contraption
You can start with that.
Then since you have identified so many fallible statements in Dave (The Genius) essays….. how about you post the ones you believe are claptrap and enlighten us with your genius by explaining how he has them wrong.
You see BOB — or do you prefer BOBBY.
You believe you have stepped into the ring with the heavyweight champ…. I do not care if you weigh 50 kg or are 80 years old – nobody forced you to try to get in here with me – I will tear your arguments to bits.
Unfortunately…. I see no argument here. So actually – you are not even in the ring.
It’s all in your mind Bob. You think you are being awesome. All that applause… it’s not real Bob.
It’s just a youtube clip mate:
https://youtu.be/barWV7RWkq0
Lash Mechanism imminent?????
I present no argument; none is necessary. The articles I referenced (and highly recommended, you may recall) speak for themselves. As they say, res ipsa loquitur.
BOB- I’ve going to put you on Team Because … Norm is your captain
ita sugit esse asinus
For those interested in the “moon buggy” hoax. The “contraption” did not fit inside the lunar module and was never intended to. It was housed in the Quadrant 1 bay, with the outer skin panel removed to allow some extra room. You can tell with the naked eye how it would fit. Of course, FE could have found this out for himself, if he had bothered to do a little research. But conspiracy theorists never do their own research; it might yield an embarrassing result.
hey—how come Mr Firth is suddenly getting all the flak that I usually get? I am bereft!
You haven’t gone off me have you Eddy?
And as a conversational exercise, anyone employing the term ‘mate’ in this context, (invariably to someone they’ve never met before), is always to be found leaning on a bar somewhere, a glass of something in one hand, and the other formed into a pointy finger,, while constantly repeating (variations of) his name (in shouty caps of course so that everyone hears) to give credence to some utterly fatuous diatribe.
While everyone else in the bar looks the other way, giving silent thanks that it isn’t their turn tonight,
a classic image the world over.
If you happen to find yourself on an otherwise empty bus, (those big red things poor people ride on) you can guarantee the same guy will come and sit next to you, and start the same ‘argument’ as your ‘mate’.
(btw, one of the prime laws of good writing—exclamation marks and shouty caps should never be used as a substitute for substance. They invariably expose a lack of it.)
Norman, I’m sorry to usurp your role as convenient whipping boy. Perhaps it was because I actually recommended the site FE was plagiarising, as an excellent example of conspiracy theory “reasoning”. Let’s have another example. Those moon photos don’t show any stars. But stars are so much brighter in the lunar sky, because the moon has no atmosphere! Which conveniently forgets that the Sun will be just as much brighter as the stars, for the same reason. Can you see (or photograph) the stars in Earth daylight? Then neither can you in lunar daylight.
That’s how conspiracy theory reasoning works: state a true fact, draw a false conclusion, and conveniently omit the evidence that proves it false.
https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/04/07/cdc-director-coronavirus-death-toll-will-be-much-much-much-lower-than-projected/
“… those models that were done, they assume only about 50 percent of the American public would pay attention to the recommendations. In fact, what we’re seeing is a large majority of the American public are taking the social distancing recommendations to heart. And I think that’s the direct consequence of why you’re seeing the numbers are going to be much, much, much lower than would have been predicted by the models.”
1. this is from the CDC who waited until April to finally decide that they should tell Americans that they all should be wearing masks in public…
2. these much lower numbers which he’s talking about could be only in the so-called first wave…
perhaps just delaying deaths until second wave third wave etc and not reducing the ultimate numbers…
Or it could be that this is a total load of sh . it. and you are being suckered and made to look like a stooge.
COVID-19 is not the flu…
https://imgur.com/gallery/1qoQcYy
All U.S.
https://i.imgur.com/BFXAZzW.jpeg
thanks…
the data seems to be showing that this past seven days has had more NY state deaths than ever in their history… (though it’s not showing week of 9/11/2001)…
the US numbers are just slightly below the 2017/18 flu season…
of course there was no social distancing back then… and no need for it with just the flu…
if there was none now, that red line would be many times higher!!!!!!!
obviously the red line will peak and decline at some point…
all those deaths, and we wrecked our economy too…
Look at this marvelous find…. who wants to be the first to blow Fast Eddy a sweet kiss…
https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2018/02/20180213_flu.jpg
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/02/13/u-s-hospitalization-rates-due-to-flu-have-increased-alarmingly-infographic/#3bffb28e3055
What? NO lockdown?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11349914/france-coronavirus-worst-world-death-toll/
“OUT OF CONTROL France suffers world’s highest daily coronavirus death toll of 1,417 as it becomes fourth country to pass 10,000″…
the great French composer Berlioz:
The one with the famous “March to the Scaffold” (Marche au Supplice). Most appropriate.
650,000 people die from the flu in a given year globally. This is a rounding error. Kinda like claiming Tesla is a major auto manufacturer
Gail, I really have to say that the comments section has really slammed into a wall in the last two weeks. While i don’t mind the conspira c y stuff I can go to other sites for that when in the mood. However, having to scroll through pages of comments to get to the interesting ones is frustrating. Maybe some moderation is required. I also agree with a previous comment that anyone new looking at this site will think it is a loon fringe site. That isn’t fair to you considering the amazing work you do and for free at that.
Niko
Niko and other members….those who deride the “Conspiracy Theorists”
So let us examine this Covid 19 for a moment shall we?
The same people, institutions, structures, who brought us outright false hoods about events such as 9/11 are the same people, institutions, structures, who are now bringing us the official story of Covid 19. How much do you trust them?
Take a look at CDC guidelines: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/coronavirus/Alert-2-New-ICD-code-introduced-for-COVID-19-deaths.pdf
If it is ASSUMED to have caused or contributed to death, then count it! LOL Gotta get those numbers UP!
Why isn’t malaria a pandemic? Malaria is killing more people than Covid. What about heart disease….same thing.
Why are animals being declared to have covid 19? Surely you know tigers at the Bronx Zoo tested positive, CNN/ABC said so.
Why is it that the supposed deaths are occurring mostly amongst the elderly and already infirmed?
Why is it that if this is a pandemic, those who are filming local hospitals show hardly anyone there?
Why did CBS news in New York show the American people supposed footage of an overwhelmed hospital in Italy, claiming it to be a New York hospital? Or how about CBS airing footage of a woman claiming to be a nurse working on the “front lines” that turned out to be totally false?
Why does the NYC ICU Doctor think the treatment is wrong for those who do have whatever “this” is. Video below.
Why does the Gates Foundation have investments into vaccines for corona viruses?
What is Event 201, a literal simulation of a pandemic ocurring that took place in October 2019……just before this event started?
Perhaps you all know in the NDAA 2012, President Obama legalized the use of Propaganda and Disinformation Campaigns to be utilized on the general public in the United States.
https://twitter.com/alexsalvinews/status/1247677398440525824
Dr. Birx, confirming today anyone with COVID 19, regardless of other health issues, if they die, it is counted as COVID 19 death. How amazing!
Yet everyone here believes this is real? How enlightened you all are.
Keep believing in governments, banks, fairy tales, moon landings, and any thing coming out of the television.
It’s a real virus like the flu, but our response is just too much. Across the globe 150,000 people die each day on average of all sorts of causes.
Kind of suspicious how all the western countries within days shut down everything in such a coordinated fashion though. I am not sure if this was for some reason orchestrated or just modern politics where you must follow the mainstream narrative and not think independently.
Yeah, Gail could use open thread posts for these fringe theories. Anyway it is all good, just crank up the filters to get rid of the noise.
I couldn’t agree more.
That’s priceless coming from you Niko. I am sure your stuff plays well with all your grade 3 fans – I don’t think anyone will notice if you exile yourself from OFW. Who is John Galt? Not you.
Why don’t you try going on a hunger strike? We will cheer you on.
Eddy I don’t mind what you have to say on it all – at all. There is very much thought provoking info you have shared. The problem for me at the moment is that there is too much noise as it were happening in the comments and it seems to mostly focus on moon landings. Would just like to move on and continue our use of logic with energy and economic issues and the future we face. But I do acknowledge that trying to perceive what is real now is a huge task.
PS. I do hunger strikes every now and then as it is great for your immune system.
kind regards
Niko
The energy issues? Ok.
We are out of cheap oil.
Demand for what’s left has collapsed and all energy companies are now insolvent.
The world is about to implode.
The End.
Do you really want to go to your grave not having read Dave’s magnetic opus? Niko – time is probably really short….
Did I mention my mate in Bali told me earlier that robberies are off the charts cuz people are desperate…. people in the Phils are running out of food …. the mayhem is not far off…
The mooooo-n ho—ax exposes the Matrix….
Like Dave says in Essay 1 in the first few paragraphs.
People do not want to believe this is a lie even though it so obviously IS — even if you SHOW THEM – because if they accept that such a massive story is actually no more true than the tooth fairy fable….
It explodes their entire world…. if this can be false —- then anything can be false…
Think about that — the landings are quite possibly the biggest thing to happen in the history of civilization … fire – the wheel – airplanes – cars – computers – this is BIGGER than all of those combined…. seek to go where no man has gone before – space the final frontier
And 70 crates containing every single film and tape of every landing —- just happened to disappear.
Come on Niko — get in there…. this is truly a life changing moment.
Don’t end our existence cloaked in a massive MSM fueled LIE.
Open your mind – open your eyes…… may your last words be:
https://media.tenor.com/images/a382f7bb27bc5218a0f9a7f8ca2f09c2/tenor.gif
https://78.media.tumblr.com/d6e83d105fd891e0480d6133e9721b22/tumblr_ozws19IAYC1vdg1n7o6_500.gif
I know they lie. What do you want to do with that info?
What can you do?
Just enjoy each day as it comes.
Voting today?
https://twitter.com/OmarJimenez/status/1247500202921078785
Even to our blind friends, it is obvious.
https://www.wired.com/story/the-asian-countries-that-beat-covid-19-have-to-do-it-again/
“Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, and Taiwan had flattened the curve. Then travelers from the US and Europe began reimporting the virus.”
if global travel continues, then this pattern will continue…
Let us hope a stronger virus than this one will come and eliminate the overpopulation of the human species.
This thought will gradually become acceptable as it becomes clear that it is the resources per capita problem which the current coronavirus crises hides and which is the reason why the living conditions of the humans deteriorate.
The living will envy the dead.
I may have repeated this too much, but world population is still growing at +200,000 per day…
the virus won’t reduce numbers, but the global lockdowns might disrupt food supplies enough to cause widespread famines…
if not plague, then famine…
Norm – you asked…
Part 3 is dedicated to answering :
If the Mo..on landings were fa..ked, then one question that naturally arises is: why would any government go to such extreme lengths to mount such an elaborate ho…ax?
http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/moondoggie-3/
THIS… IS PRICELESS!!!!!
Our spaceship is now so ridiculously overloaded that we may have had to add a roof-rack and we still aren’t quite done yet.
We still have a couple more items to pack, and we probably should have gotten them on sooner because they are going to require a lot of space. Since this is one of the later Apollo flights, you see, we also have to pack a dune buggy, otherwise known as a lunar rover.
And the rovers, according to NASA, are a full ten feet long, just two feet less than the diameter of our craft.
But not to worry – according to NASA, the rovers (pictured below) folded up to the size of a large suitcase. When released, they would just sort of magically unfold and snap into place, ready to roam the lunar terrain.
http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/9272098b-c84e-4aed-9f8d-998785760f90-2.jpg
That’s one aspect of it, there are way more. While others extensively tested 2-3x smaller vehicle for crawling .5m deep craters and sharp rocks this one on the picture would have to be able navigate even more, which obviously by bad design can not. Moreover the overall concept of such joyrides is Hollywood silliness extraordinaire, why leverage the risk of getting stuck away from the module in the first place. Plus the little gem, as the surface is evidently fake, the granular properties of the surface are joke, it lacks more diverse fraction (sizes) of the material. Simply the movie set people were not instructed properly, they used only same loose fraction of dust and larger rocks, nothing in between. Which is easily provable on contemporary competing or all other later missions..
Dave was smart — and Funny too! I am mourning Dave…
Although there is a silver lining to this… if Dave was alive he’d beat my world record IQ of 700 (on a good day) with his 1000….
And Guinness would take back my plaque… and the trophy 🙁
BTW – does Guinness Beer also own the World Record company?
If it proves not to be the case that this space radiation “showstopper” is a new development, then I suppose that the only explanation that we are left with is that we did indeed have the technology to shield our astronauts from radiation back in the 1960s, but at some time during the last four decades, that technology was simply lost.
What probably happened was that an overzealous night custodian simply threw the data away. The conversation around the NASA water cooler the next day probably went something like this: “Holy shit! Has anyone seen that folder that I left on my desk last night? It contained the only copy of the secret formula that I devised for building a weightless space radiation shield. It could be forty years or more before someone else can duplicate it! My ass is so fired!”
Drip feeding the logic …. If you hit a DelusiSTANI with the Mother Load all at once…. he/she will go into cardiac arrest…….
Slowly slowly…. we will bring the DelusiSTANIS out of their wonderland….. using tidbits like this … we attract them to the border of RealitySTAN….
Here you little bas tar..ds … come see what Fast Eddy has for you …. come closer… I won’t hurt you … a little closer… sniff it… smells GOOOD noooo?…. I know you want out of there…
Have a lick… pretty good huh?….. Fast Eddy tosses the treat across the border and the DelusiSTANIs …
We are also going to need to install a top-of-the-line heating and cooling system. Probably several of them, actually. Because the ‘weather’ on the Moon, so to speak, can be a bit unpleasant. According to the experts over at NASA, daytime highs average a balmy +260° F, but it cools off quite a bit at night, dropping to an average of -280° F. If you’re looking for anything between those two extremes, you won’t really find it on the Moon. It’s pretty much one or the other. If you’re in the sun, you’re going to be boiled alive, and if you’re out of the sun, you’re going to be flash frozen.
The DelusiSTANIS pounce on it ripping hunks off … savouring every bite of truth… but it’s just a small morsel… if you give them to much they will never stop eating … and then we get the cardiac situation …
You varmints relux…. that’s enough for now…. Fast will get you more of this throughout the day…
https://www.holidogtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/animal-wants-food-1-810×405.png
If that does not entertain you then watch me do this
http://blogs.coventry.ac.uk/uncovered/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2015/11/Front-flip.gif
We’ve seen the lunar module etc… now let’s take a look at the modern option — and mind you, as the NASA engineer said… this is in the testing stage… they do not know if it can survive outside of low orbit
And they are of course NOT testing it with a human inside…
Compare the photos with Dave’s photos of the machine that not only survived with men on board — outside of low orbit — but landed on the moon – and returned:
https://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/orion/index.html
Gail – I suggest publishing all of these posts — because the doubters will not read those lengthy articles…
And this topic has relevance to ALL topics on OFW because
1. This demonstrates how it is possible for the PTB to perpetuate massive lies
2. It hopefully will force people to question EVERYTHING
3. It will hopefully stop people from mocking others who present reasonable arguments about topics that are considered ‘conspiracy theories)
4. It will encourage more posts like that site on a wide range of topics — and it will allow people to have the opportunity to evaluate issues based on the facts that are presented.
This moon site is one of the most eye-opening things I have ever read. If they can convince 99.99999% of the world that we have walked on the moon … then obviously they are capable of ANYTHING. It is HUGELY important
This should end the ‘how can it be possible, when so many people are in on it, to perpetrate a hoax’. Edward Snowden debunks that — but this site DESTROYS it.
Norman — it would be useful to get your take on all of this – or anyone else who was trolling us.
And keep in mind — I changed my mind on The Virus….
We will absolutely not take the pi.ss of you if you come on board… we will welcome you… we will pat you on the back… we’ll buy you multiple rounds of beer,wine, whiskey whatever your tipple is.. we’ll even buy you dinner… maybe a lap dance (or two)…. a few lines… a pill or two…. then we’ll head to the Trance House… pick up some chicks… rent a suite at the Four Seasons… etc etc etc….
Like I said… it’s a lonely world….. it is always good to welcome someone into the fold…. we need all the friends we can get
The hits just keep coming…
While what is depicted in the images may initially appear, to the untrained eye, to be some kind of mock-up that someone cobbled together in their backyard to make fun of NASA, I can assure you that it is actually an extremely high-tech manned spacecraft capable of landing on the surface of the Moon. And incredibly enough, it was also capable of blasting off from the Moon and flying 69 miles back up into lunar orbit!
Though not immediately apparent, it is actually a two-stage craft, the lower half (the part that looks like a tubular aluminum framework covered with Mylar and old Christmas wrapping paper) being the descent stage, and the upper half (the part that looks as though it was cobbled together from old air conditioning ductwork and is primarily held together, as can be seen in the close-up, with zippers and gold tape) being the ascent stage.
http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/57b1d83f-3203-40bd-b807-28d20d119eaf-2.jpg
http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/4a7179f9-18bd-4e43-852d-6645fe31429d-2.jpg
About the Australian wages bailout – aka, the Jobkeeper Program, introduced to keep people off the dole queue. Around 6 million workers (1/2 the workforce) will receive (before tax), $1500 per fortnight through their employer, where the later can show a 30% reduction in income.
The Jobkeeper program is not really helping. Most businesses that can’t show a 30% drop in income until next quarter are making people redundant and putting pressure on workers with no case to argue, or negotiate. Also, the Jobkeeper payment has not kept up with rising costs of rent (there is still no comprehensive rent relief), food, bills, etc. Unemployment benefits are less than this.
It appears that the rivets will be busting out the side of the sinking ship called the Australian economy (really just a house-flipping operation), sooner rather than later, because, as mentioned before, you cannot bail out a black hole.
The devil is in the details in these things. It becomes impossible to get enough money out to enough different people with enough different problems to keep the whole system together. Of course, world factories goods production has to be pretty simultaneous. If one maker of parts is closed, that impacts many others. If credit isn’t available for part of the supply chain, there is likely to be a delay for a while longer.
Exactly, it’s always the final mile in the supply chain that’s the most critical.
thanks for the Aussie update…
In Hong Kong the government will extend a line of credit to businesses…. 7% interest if I recall correctly … a mate of mine has tapped it….
He was recommending we tap it …. I’ll take a pass on that.
The reason being — I would personally have to guarantee the loan — even though the loan is being made to a corporate entity —- so assume this (f.ake) crisis continues… and we sink into an insolvent situation… we tap that line of credit to keep the doors open ….
The crisis drags on and on … the line of credit runs dry….. the company is unable to service that 6%….
Carrie Lam (the fi.lthy CCP flunky shylock hag) …. will send her lawyers after me who will hack chunks of flesh off my body….
So you see when they say ‘we are all in this together’ that’s a load of ___________. The banks are in it for the 7%…. on a loan that is essentially guaranteed…. If I wanted to go that route I’d take a mortgage on a property for 3.5% …. duh….
And Carrie is moving forward with her raise….. and there is no way to vote the p i g out.
Who knew, by the way, that the European Space Agency had the technology and the budget to send a spacecraft off to orbit the Moon? Who knew that the Europeans even had a space agency?
I wonder, given that they obviously have the technology to send spacecraft to the Moon, why they haven’t sent any manned missions there? I would think that it should be fairly easy to send some guys to at least orbit the Moon … right?
I mean, all they have to do is add a couple seats to the spacecraft design that they already have and they should be ready to go.
https://hdc-image-uploads-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/post/featured_image/123/common-sense-cropped.jpg
Dave is George Carlin…. on STEROIDS!
Several nations can send probes to Moon and Mars and are doing just that as we speak, but the budget for manned mission is about several factors higher to begin with. And as the experts in the industry acknowledged recently it is still impossible to pursue it due to the radiation and micro meteorite risks, for which there is currently no suitable technology proposed nor developed-engineered for advanced testing etc.
Out of curiosity, what would the mission to the moon be about? Perhaps collecting rocks for the fun of it?
https://meme.xyz/uploads/posts/t/l-52765-we-got-here-with-a-computer-less-powerful-than-your-cell-phone-and-a-rocket-a-fucking-huge-rocket.jpg
Explained here — I am too lazy to copy and paste – and I prefer not to give away the plot.
If the Moon landings were faked, then one question that naturally arises is: why would any government go to such extreme lengths to mount such an elaborate hoax?
READ more http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/moondoggie-3/
Dave is such genius…. I am 10 shades of deep green with envy….. I am but a drop of water in the ocean whereas Dave is
http://plunderbund.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/wave-ocean-animated-gif-14.gif
Oh Dave how could you have left us — we need your genius —- the DelusiSTANIS are too many …. they are coming over the wall Dave….. we need some of your IQ to hold them off!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUiUH7uaAM8
A flower shop owner who has been closed for over a month and is a father of 5 children, said so far he’s received no assistance from the government. We have no where to turn.
If you go to 5:39 and freeze frame the video, you can read what Italy is warning about regarding their current situation. The economy is in trouble, bound for a major contraction. The precariously situated workers, self-employed, seasonal, informal are suffering the most. It’s not clear how much longer they can survive.
Also, wasn’t it that clip from CH4 about ICU in Welsh hospital a week ago? The doc said they are just about managing and increase in number of patients would be problem from this threshold up, among other things saying at times 6 personnel deals just with one patient, lot of ~young age cases with no precondition etc.
thanks, chrome…
I’ve heard it was said that the Great Depression wasn’t too bad IF you had a job…
if we’re headed for a Greater Depression, then the suffering will be massive…
Haven’t done the Italian numbers but if Spain were to have the level of infections of the US 2017/18…. they’d need to have nearly 7.5 million (they have 120k+)
650,000 hospitalizations out of 300M
Spain needs to have 100,000+ hospitalizations to match up with the US…. can’t find those numbers for Spain but is it 20% of infected go into the hospital?
So 120k infected….24k in the hospital?
Spain needs to have 5x more people go into the hospital to match the US 2017/18 numbers.
Feel free to correct my loose math while you enjoy your tasty
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/668632266063548416/OU0YI8mX.jpg
Gosh, I hope this comment section doesn’t turn into a stream of ridiculous, oft rebutted, conspiracy theories.
I will have to admit that the conspiracy stories are not much to my liking either. There are some parallels to what is happening now, so I have been pretty lenient in letting them through. Just skip the threads, if they are of no interest. You will not find many comments from in those threads.
Gail, if the pages get filled up with the usual con.spiracy stuff, we have to skip lots. It very much detracts from the overall sensible discussions on real world issues.
For people that get directed here for the first time, they will quickly decide the blog is not worth reading as it is just another ‘wacky’ site…
Just saying…
I disagree.
If one is able to expose the biggest hoax in the history of mankind then it needs to be discussed.
Because if something that nearly all 8 billion people believe is proved to be FALSE.
Then that is relevant to every other topic that is being discussed on OFW.
What else is False?
Norman — it would be useful to have you weigh in here…. Have you come on board? Are you at least sceptical now? Do you have any more questions? Do you dispute anything?
I just placed a $1000 wager with a mate and told him he needs to give me 30 minutes of his time then he has to decide on something. I have not told him what. He was off to a meeting so we will revisit later. I will require that he read Part 1 and 2 of Moondoggle… then he has to tell me if he still believes the man on the moon fable. If he does – I lose.
Stay tuned for the update.
watching the to and fro in here, with various comments flying, I can’t help but see the similiarities between all this, and trying to engage with a rabid jesusfreak on the doorstep or street corner.—
Google Kenneth Copeland if interested and want to watch god-rage
The outcome of any such exchange, at least in my own experience, is to watch a rising anger(in said godbotherer) that ‘you’ can’t see or understand or are too stupid, or worse, (take your pick).
This anger rises to the point where it becomes a matter of personal affront to the holy warrior, and ‘you’ become the focus and reason why ‘he’ is in the mental state he’s in. ie–on the point of constant rage at others who will not accept his ‘righteous’ certainty. ‘You’ become the sole reason why his pet conspiracy has not been accepted as mainline fact.
At the extreme end of this condition, you have mobs screaming for blasphemers to be executed. In here things take on a milder note by virtue of ‘social distancing’. Just as well I guess.
To me it is a matter of mild amusement, having no material consequence. I treat road ragers in precisely the same way. Particularly in my later years I feel little inclination to get annoyed at anything (not enough time left to waste).
What used to be a useful and interesting exchange of balanced points of view in here, plus a thread of humour, seems to have morphed into a hotbed of conspiracy theories (choose your favourite).
Sometimes threads get so convoluted that it is difficult to decide which side of the ‘conspiracy’ the commenter is on.
For instance Eddy (and I hope I’m wrong here) you seemed to touch on the ‘twin tower attack. 9/11’ somehow being a plot of some sort. Presumably by the deep state again, or something. Who knows. It seems to be a favourite)
Please confirm or refute. I like to know what kind of mind I’m dealing with.
—-
On dealing with ‘faked’ moon landing pics, I know that sensitive electronic instruments are wrapped in gold foil for protection.
What I cant figure out is why the landing leg of the lander is also wrapped in gold foil, just to sit on moon dirt?
The most naive moonscammer wouldnt make that mistake surely?
It has been possible to do amazing things with photographs lately. You can make anything exist that never existed. Armies, Starships, Dinosaurs.
And its impossible to know what is real
This isn’t a subject I’ve been following since 1969, but (you’ll correct me if I’m wrong, I know) it seems to me that almost all the photos ‘proving’ fakery seem to have been appearing since every teenager could produce them in his back bedroom.
Photos fly around the internet like confetti
A thick kid, (otherwise brilliant photoshop manipulator), WOULD wrap gold foil round a moon lander leg, because he would know no different. Do you really think a bunch of guys putting it together in a studio would make such a silly mistake?
But of course they would have to–or the conspiracy thing falls apart.
Same with the men in suits, they look ridiculous in the way they are lit and posed. I would be embarrased to put out such crap. But even more so in believing it. I spent my working life adding light and shade to artwork to give depth and perspective to stuff . And i was just an amateur by comparison to the talent available to NASA
I suppose its why I prefer old movies. There what you see is what was real at the time, not added later.
very well said, Norrman, and thank you…
Norm we are well beyond my feeble attempts to disprove the moon landings….
We are dealing with true Genius now … the professional …. think Wayne Gretzy of ho-ax busting ….
Please let’s not quibble over my assertions….
I am sure you have seen the chunks I pulled from Daves ‘mangum opus’…. yesterday….
As I go through the responses …. am I going to find you attempting to rebut any of them?
Or are you planning to ignore them and remain mired in your polluted swamp?
Dave is offering you the penthouse with a view Norm – if you prefer the ooze then fine.
This
https://www.galeriemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Dining_3-1920×1200.jpg
vs
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qg4eE1a7PGc/Uyr4urjZFsI/AAAAAAAAD9k/tXihr97Uv24/s1600/recto+-+abad+santos%252C+manila+2.jpg
To be serious for a moment …. this is a truly sad moment Norm. We thought you had what it would take to be on the Dream Team. No, you would never be one of the stars…. you don’t have the scoring touch…. we had you pegged in for the 3rd line. Not bad considering this is the pinnacle of intellectual achievement in the world…
But alas… you have disappointed us. The GM has just informed the team that you are bust Norm. You just don’t have the horsepower and after this total Disaster….. it has been determined that you never will.
You can pick up your one way bus ticket back to buttfooook wherever…. and go back to pumping petrol …. on the bright side of things… you can be a superstar down at the local pub where you can tell all your mates (over and over again) how you had a shot at the big time…
How you met Fast Eddy and the other superstars…. you almost got to go to the Techo House with them… and the LEGENDARY after party….
I have to go now Norm as I am rather busy… You have yourself a nice life….
Fast Eddy jogs up the steps of the OFW Private Jet …. the HOT HOT HOT flight attendants smile demurely ….signalling…. “We are available – for anything….”
Norm stands on the tarmac — with his bus ticket … wondering WTF have I done????
yes mike r it seems about half of all comments are now what you describe…
only about a month ago, it was so much better…
can anyone figure out what happened here?
and…
absolutely spot on, Hide away…
There are only two big groups of answers to it..
FE is basically a contractor for someone measuring the attitudes around Surplus/OFW circles, provocateur + database filler / analyst.
And the second option, probably more on the money, FE senses end of an era as many of us around here, the curtain might drop pretty soon, yet for him it’s still worth it to compare the notes along the road with others so to speak..
I totally agree – while I don’t like too much moderation on forums such as this – but the conspiracy posts are getting tedious. Sure FE can be funny – it gets overwhelming, and detracts from what we are trying to get our rather limited brain power around. Hey wait – I saw a little green thing out of the corner of my eye… alien? (actually a rather large Katydid).
the shouty caps and lots of exclamation marks are the giveaway that even conspiracy ideas are running out
Mike … it’s not a string — it’s just one…. and it’s not actually a conspiracy theory anymore — it’s an exposed hoax.
I highly recommend not skipping any of FE’s post on this —- this is some of his best work ever —- this is Pulitzer quality stuff.
Norman — you really need to chime in here… if you can change your mind then … surely others will perhaps become….
http://i.ytimg.com/sh/ESVpnqLEKXE/showposter.jpg
not the full carillon these days since Notre dame burned down
Seriously, often rebutted by whom, where, when? That never happened either.
The track record on verifiable extraordinary claims emanating especially from one specific gov entity is simply atrocious in the court of world opinion – so it is linked in some ways to current developments as well. Although I agree it does not belong to this blog much. Lets take it only then as brief test into the logical abilities (or lack there of) for the audience frequenting this site.
I appreciate Gail’s lack of/minimal censorship across the board. I still believe in the Apollo landings, for now, but I also am grateful for Fast Eddy’s and Worldofhanumanotg’s rational arguments. The only way to learn is to question one’s own beliefs and be open to new evidence. I note that FE in particular exemplifies this – perhaps more than any other commenter on OFW – with his recent change of view on the coronavirus as just one example.
DB – please take some time and read more than just my anecdotes.
Then come back and tell us what you think. Take your time — I’ve only read the first 3. Will continue tomorrow.
The articles are very well written and hugely entertaining. I suspect you will enjoy them regardless of whether you agree or not
Talking of Fast Eddy changing his opinion, perhaps you (Fast) could explain something for those of us without an IQ in excess of 500. Correct me if I am wrong, but before your sabbatical you believed that since the GFC of 2008 the Eld er’s were desperately working to keep the financial ponzi afloat, because without the financial system the oil on which we depend could not be extracted, grids would go down, and we’d all die (including the Eld ers) due to lack of spent fuel pool maintenance, no productive farmland, etc. However, now you seem to believe that those in charge want to use the virus as an excuse to crash the moribund financial system and force the useless eaters to starve in their homes.
How do you think the Eld ers plan to survive in the absence of the financial system and their slaves?
Mike – feel free to step in at any time and rebut some of the excerpts I have posted.
Hey Mike and others…. I do not have a TV — well actually I have a TV but I don’t have any cable or other feeds.
We have an old TV that was packed in the garage — I took it out and put it in our rental cottage (because there are no more rentals….because the world is ending)…
And we use it to stream Les Mills On Demand.
But I digress… we don’t have subscriptions because we realized about 10 years ago that we were not watching the TEE fing VEEE… So we cut it. Great decision.
Some people love TEE VEEE they watch it even when they are having dinner.
But the great thing about the TEE vEE and the internet is you can curate your content…
The same goes with OFW…. guess what I do when I see 250 comments in the queue…. I have a list of contributors whose ideas I value… the list is around a dozen… I use the filter to search for their latest comments…. I often save my favourites for last … (when you eat your smarties to you eat the red ones last… kinda like that)
If you are a moaner and a complainer … safe to say — you don’t make the cut. You are not Dream Team material… in fact I have another list… the Mediocre Team… and I also apply the filter — then I delete all…. I’ve given them a chance but they have nothing worth reading….. I am not a checkers type of character….
Sorry to ramble on but if Fast Eddy is not entertaining (or enlightening)….. you can type Fast Eddy into the filter…. you will get my 250 comments from the day…
And guess what…
You can… delete them.
It really is that simple. See you learned something today
Now say thank you master Eddy.
Now this is FUNNY!!!!
Such was the case with a ‘Moon rock’ that the Dutch national museum has been carefully safeguarding for many years now, before discovering, in August of 2009, that they were in reality the proud owners of the most over-insured piece of petrified wood on the planet.
The ‘Moon rock’ had been a gift to the Dutch from the U.S. State Department, and its authenticity had reportedly been verified through a phone call to NASA. I’m guessing that NASA was probably running low on meteorite fragments and figured the Dutch wouldn’t know the difference anyway.
Or maybe Washington was a little peeved over the fact that Dutch newspapers reportedly called NASA’s bluff at the time of the first alleged Moon landing.
Original source http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8226075.stm
It was given to former Prime Minister Willem Drees during a goodwill tour by the three Apollo-11 astronauts shortly after their moon mission in 1969.
When Mr Drees died, the rock went on display at the Amsterdam museum.
At one point it was insured for around $500,000 (£308,000), but tests have proved it was not the genuine article.
https://cdn.newspunch.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/fake-moon-rock-holland-678×320.jpg
This is not to suggest, of course, that all of the Moon rocks passed out by NASA and the State Department are obvious fakes.
Most, presumably, are of lunar origin – but that doesn’t necessarily mean they were gathered by American astronauts walking on the surface of the Moon; they could just as easily have come to Earth as meteorites. It is also possible that they are of otherworldly origin but not from the Moon at all – such as meteorites from other sources that have been collected here on Earth.
The only way to know for sure what NASA’s Moon rocks are, of course, would be to compare them to a ‘control rock’ that is known to be from the Moon.
The problem, alas, is that the only known source for ‘authenticated’ Moon rocks is NASA, the very same folks who are known to occasionally hand out chunks of petrified wood. The other problem, it turns out, is that most of the Moon rocks are, uhmm, missing.
Does anyone see a pattern developing here?
Yep, I mentioned it earlier, the msm tried to explained it as possible theft.
Soviet 1970s probe missions returning few hundred grams from the Moon for example showed much higher water content in the rock samples then previously thought, that even different location won’t easily explain it. Wikipedia editors filed-link the accompanied original studies under some “occult” summary article, so few bother to pursue it further, and so on.. i
Also, Youtube made algorithm search and copyright cleansing in recent years vs situation say 10-15yrs ago, so quality authors and channels on the topic don’t pop must be directly addressed first vs over load of tainted disinformation. It’s harder for people with zero knowledge to approach it these days.. yet common sense always triumphs in the end anyway.
Too bad Dave didn’t have a go at the Pro to cols of Z…..eye—on…..
That’s actually where the story all begins…..
z AND eDDIE, I think you should accept trustworthy news reports about corona cases. If they say someone has corona, they really got it, man.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/harvey-weinstein-tests-positive-coronavirus-prison-69749470
https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2020/04/02/spokesman-says-harvey-weinstein-never-tested-positive-for-coronavirus/
and i believe–yes, I know you guys hate that word–believe that the corona virus is real.
given our behavior on this planet it is inevitable that new a zoonotic would emerge.
I just don’t think it warrants shutting down the entire global economy.
The shutdown is about something else.
I don’t know what that something else is but it wasn’t about containing a virus.
The virus is definitely real. But shutting down the entire global economy to try to stop it is really iffy.
thank you, Nope and Gail…
“The shutdown is about something else.
I don’t know what that something else is but it wasn’t about containing a virus.”
we can disagree here…
I tend to go with what others have said… that world leaders/govs were unprepared for this and didn’t know what to do, so they are making it up as they go…
unfortunately they made the wrong choice when they (mostly) chose lockdowns…
100 years ago, we couldn’t do anything about it, so 50m died and everyone else got on with their lives—we are here as proof of that
corvid 19 is just the same as a massive hurricane.
its possible to built flood defences, but nature’s power is infinite
ours is finite.
whatever nature knocks down sooner or later is going to stay down
unfortunately that includes us
that is something our leaders cannot grasp
The hysteria generated by MSM and social media is so intense that people will just continue to self-quarsntine and be very cautious even after the lockdowns are lifted. Those who have the money will continue to hide at home. Those white collar workers will continue to work from home. Those blue collar workers will be shafted again because people are not going to dine out, buy things, socislize en mass.
I believe the event horizon was sometime early February where we can still make a u-turn. We are just merely feeling the after effects for the decision made to lockdown. There is nothing positive forthcoming.
As stated in my earlier posts, MSM, social media and instant messaging are the root causes of this epic big step down (probably the last atep) of the industrialized civilisation.
Debating on where the virus comes from, cons piracy theories or facts, what help can government give to middle class, business, poor, how to restart the economy is as good as arguing which dress should I wear before the sinking of The Titanic.
The Fed cannot save everyone; in fact central banks are just buying time, a few months? Shutdowns are exponential, mind you, shutting down for 1 month does not mean that it will take 1 day to restart and things will revert to normal the next day.
Few can survive a head on collision with a wall at 50mph. Those who survive will suffer lifelong disabilities. That is what the economy is currently doing. Deflation will be so great because the velocity of money (money changing hands) will be so close to zero that most businesses will not survive.
The psychological strain will be so immense that it will break many people. I believe this is one of the reasons why Singspore term it a circuit breaker instead of lockdown because cramming 4 people into a 800sqft apartment and only allowing one person to get food is a psychological disaster waiting to happen.
Unpaid loans, zero tourism, very low international trade and many others are just the effects of deflation. Coronavirus is just a catalyst, speeding up the inevitable by a a hundred fold.
I could recall vividly during my childhood days when we were playing around and were told the story/myth of why the elephant is afraid of the mouse. The mouse can go inside the war and kill the mouse. We laugh it out especially when we played the card game because no matter how big you are, there is always a weak point. Guess the little pesky virus happens to be the catalyst that speed this up. All the steps down are all compressed into one large step down.
Colour me pessimistic but I see no way out for this predicament.
Don’t forget that we are just 2.5 months into this virus thing (from the date of Wuhan lockdown). We ain’t see nothing yet from what this virus can do in a couple of weeks/months time but it looks like we are already so exhausted over this. We have spent so much energy on this real/perceived threat now that we are totally screwed on how to move forward.
Make peace with God. Take one step at a time and live life the fullest (even if you are so bored in lockdowns).
Sorry. Typo. The mouse can go inside the ear of the elephant and kill the elephant.
II’m pretty sure the learned men and women reading my posts think I’m illiterate with the typos in my posts.
Thhe goood reaader rarelly gett huung upp oon tyypos, ratther wwithh baad woordingg.
Which is a worse problem for non-native English writers, trying to wrangle out some comprehensible sentences colored by their own native language(s), such as me.
the conspiracy theories can be helpful if it shows any one benefiting from the shutdown. For the longest time, I believed no one could benefit from it. Now, I think there is at least one possibility. a epidemic can be blamed for the looming collapse of industrial civilization sor there is that.
Other than that, look around. Who is looking at this crisis as an opportunity?
Think of the Hegelian Dialetic here…..you create the virus…..spawn the reaction……offer the solution
Who is involved in the creation of viruses? Bio-labs? Real or fake?
Who offers the reaction? MSM
Who provides the solution? Vaccines? Biometric ID’s?
Perhaps look into what the Bill Gates Foundation puts their money into…..ding ding ding vaccines……who are the Gates allied with?…..Rockefeller….ding…ding…ding……Who was William H Gates?……think planned parenthood…..eugenics….like Rockefeller……
CDT. (TM FE)
We better change the to CDT 2.0
Since CDT is already in use
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Cw8_YPQLH5I/maxresdefault.jpg
Typical example of pyroclastic clouds from slow burning office fires.
Nothing to see, move along, ~this will continue as in COG (quasiBAU) we trust.
Typical shoddy 1970s NYC construction.
I’ve avoided all airplane and elevator travel ever since that awful day.
I have been concerned about HK doing a NZ and totally locking down… but when you have 10 people or more in a 400sf apartment — I am now thinking that is not going to happen.
Recall that experiment where they fed the rats and let them fornicate — they were crammed into every space in the cage… and went insane and started gnawing on each other…
And I agree — even if this ended now it would take months to recover (if recovery is even possible).
People are scarred by this — they’ll forever be worried about another virus and they are unlikely to spend and support the consumer economy…
Debt loads will be astronomical… so they won’t be able to spend even if they wanted to.
The el d ers have created this hyped up situation for a reason — and it surely ain’t a reason that involves a long term plan… cuz they are right now running their fancy machine without oil…
It’s smoking and hissing and screeching … the damage is too great and cannot be repaired…
No… I do not see this crisis ending with some sort of reset…. they’ve thrown a wrench into the works and they have a near term agenda.
And BTW:
For at least two decades now, since the launch of the Hubble Space Telescope, we have been promised dazzling images of the lunar modules sitting on the surface of the Moon. The Hubble technology, needless to say, never managed to deliver.
More recently, in 2002, the European Southern Observatory’s Very Large Telescope (whose inventor apparently coined the name while watching Sesame Street) was also supposed to deliver the promised images.
And seven years later, the fabled images have yet to materialize.
Plausible deniability for the win, as the adversary (incoming bioweapon attack) is unsure is it really the threshold to answer in full force aka pummel the intruder with nuclear salvo? Hence nothing major happens again, all it just boils down and then rots for a while, rinse and repeat.. Very interesting game play if you can saddle on top of it, some can and do, even apparently enjoy it, for how long, unclear..
As it turns out, however, NASA doesn’t actually have all of that Moonwalking footage anymore.
Truth be told, they don’t have any of it. According to the agency, all the tapes were lost back in the late 1970s. All 700 cartons of them.
As Reuters reported on August 15, 2006, “The U.S. government has misplaced the original recording of the first moon landing, including astronaut Neil Armstrong’s famous ‘one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind’ …
Armstrong’s famous moonwalk, seen by millions of viewers on July 20, 1969, is among transmissions that NASA has failed to turn up in a year of searching, spokesman Grey Hautaluoma said. ‘We haven’t seen them for quite a while. We’ve been looking for over a year, and they haven’t turned up,’ Hautaluoma said … In all, some 700 boxes of transmissions from the Apollo lunar missions are missing.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nasa-tapes/moon-landing-tapes-got-erased-nasa-admits-idUSTRE56F5MK20090716
The moral of the story — whenever someone suggest you are being lied to about something — particularly if they present a reasonable argument — do not dismiss them as a crackpot….
Do not mock them without listening to what they have to say… do not refuse to read their sources.
Because that would make you an im b ecile….. a donkey…. a stump…..
Bob Lazar (remember him?) maintains that in 1989 he examined a generator that actually produced gravity. It was his job to find out how it was done. As he says, once you have cracked gravity, you can warp time and sp ace.
And those, um, cra-ft he was trying to back-engineer, well, he tells us they were ‘archeological’. So maybe you should go searching the antique shops, FE. You never know what you might find. Just because we humans can’t do it.
Joe Rogan Experience – Bob Lazar & Jeremy Corbell
They scrapped it all. incl. engineering blueprints, telemetry data, and recorders..
No follow up, no nothing..
While Soviet engines where licensed to NASA in the 1990s and still the ISS on Orbit must had been manned from Russian vehicles anyway for decades, moreover all extra terra rovers be it US/Jap/Chinese use their conceptual framework developed in 1960-70s not that joke Jeep Moon buggy from “Nevada film set”.. Why..
That’s simply how the world rolls, one is working hard another is just living on high heel printing money, apart from carpet bombing. twisting arms and false flagging around..
Now isn’t that truly AMAZING.
All the original footage audio and data of all the landings — 70 crates of it? — just plain old DISAPPEARED.
Conveniently making it impossible for anyone to analyse it and determine if it is f ak e
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nasa-tapes/moon-landing-tapes-got-erased-nasa-admits-idUSTRE56F5MK20090716
Lash Mechanism time….
https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-10-2015/XR2cEQ.gif
Consider this peculiar fact: in order to reach the surface of the Moon from the surface of the Earth, the Apollo astronauts would have had to travel a minimum of 234,000 miles*.
Since the last Apollo flight allegedly returned from the Moon in 1972, the furthest that any astronaut from any country has traveled from the surface of the Earth is about 400 miles. And very few have even gone that far. The primary components of the current U.S. space program – the space shuttles, the space station, and the Hubble Telescope – operate at an orbiting altitude of about 200 miles.
To briefly recap then, in the twenty-first century, utilizing the most cutting-edge modern technology, the best manned spaceship the U.S. can build will only reach an altitude of 200 miles. But in the 1960s, we built a half-dozen of them that flew almost 1,200 times further into space. And then flew back.
And they were able to do that despite the fact that the Saturn V rockets that powered the Apollo flights weighed in at a paltry 3,000 tons, about .004% of the size that the principal designer of those very same Saturn rockets had previously said would be required to actually get to the Moon and back (primarily due to the unfathomably large load of fuel that would be required).
http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/moondoggie-1/
Oh Wow…. revelation after revelation after revelation …..
He should call this The Book of Revelations….
To put that into more Earthly terms, U.S. astronauts today travel no further into space than the distance between the San Fernando Valley and Fresno. The Apollo astronauts, on the other hand, traveled a distance equivalent to circumnavigating the planet around the equator nine-and-a-half times!
And they did it with roughly the same amount of fuel that it now takes to make that 200 mile journey, which is why I want NASA to build my next car for me. I figure I’ll only have to fill up the tank once and it should last me for the rest of my life.
IDIOCRACY has not completely overwhelmed the world – Evidence:
And yet, despite the fact that it was a relatively benign lie, there is a tremendous reluctance among the American people to let go of the notion that we sent men to the Moon. There are a couple of reasons for that, one of them being that there is a romanticized notion that those were great years – years when one was proud to be an American. And in this day and age, people need that kind of romanticized nostalgia to cling to.
But that is not the main reason that people cling so tenaciously, often even angrily, to what is essentially the adult version of Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. What primarily motivates them is fear. But it is not the lie itself that scares people; it is what that lie says about the world around us and how it really functions. For if NASA was able to pull off such an outrageous hoax before the entire world, and then keep that lie in place for four decades, what does that say about the control of the information we receive? What does that say about the media, and the scientific community, and the educational community, and all the other institutions we depend on to tell us the truth? What does that say about the very nature of the world we live in?
That is what scares the hell out of people and prevents them from even considering the possibility that they could have been so thoroughly duped. It’s not being lied to about the Moon landings that people have a problem with, it is the realization that comes with that revelation: if they could lie about that, they could lie about anything.
http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/moondoggie-1/
Norman — you really need to have a read of that …. (if you are to claim you are a deep ‘thinker’)
Or not.
‘Again, the question that immediately comes to mind is: Why? Why has no nation ever duplicated, or even attempted to duplicate, this miraculous feat? Why has no other nation even sent a manned spacecraft to orbitthe Moon? Why has no other nation ever attempted to send a manned spacecraft anywhere beyond low-Earth orbit?’
‘Is it because we already learned everything there was to learn about the Moon?’
Ya gotta be. The boys scooped up a bit of dirt… took some photos and the book was closed on the moon. Nothing to see here — instead let’s send multiple rovers etc to Mars… (using the latest Hollywood tech).
Surely there has to be some merit in revisiting the moon.
And consider this — Elon wants us to move to Mars — but we are not quite there in terms of the technology….
But what does Mars have that the moon doesn’t have? Neither have air – or water — or the ability to grow food…. they are both clumps of dead rock…
Does Mars have a better view? Perhaps it’s that red colour — Elon prefers red over gray?
Could it be that Elon fears ‘the man in the moon’ …. or maybe Elon is allergic to cheese so he prefers the more bland Mars?
Or could it be that colonizing the moon is just too easy. Elon likes a bigger challenge.
Hey Norm… help me with this….
Lots of stuff to go through on the sites…. this could be a very busy day on OFW!
FE, those are the same questions I asked in regard to Sarah Palin’s faked pregnancy: if the media would lie to us about that.. what *wouldn’t* they lie about? [Search YT for “The Perfidy of Sarah Palin”.]
I’m trying hard to think of a major event during my lifetime when the .gov and the press did *not* lie. Not coming up with anything but am open to suggestions.
Those who pull the levers certainly enjoy mocking the sheeple…. they even released a series of movies that are loosely based on their business model…
It’s called ‘The Matrix’
It’s so laughable that they could actually come out from behind the curtain and say – he meatheads — this and this and this and this and this —- are all li.es. Really they are! And almost nobody would believe them.
I have said it many times in the past — if Al Gore came out and said the GGGGGGGGGGGGG WWWWWW is a crokkk of shiiiiittttt….. he’d be crucified (and accused of selling out to big oil).
For those who don’t believe that — well one of the top guys in Greenpeace – Patrick Moore — did EXACTLY that…. and he was immediately attacked from all sides.
We are living in one big fat matrix fueled by lies…. and there are probably no more than a few dozen (maybe less) who realize it.
There is no reasoning with those who do not know ‘know’ — you can show them evidence… and if there is no absolute evidence — you can apply common sense — you can punch them in the face with it….. but with most people — they will not become a seeker — they will mock you — they will insult you — they would probably stone you to death if you persisted and they could get away with it.
It’s a rather lonely existence… this ‘knowing’….
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BlackShabbyBighornedsheep-size_restricted.gif
https://www.iltascabile.com/scienze/coronavirus-collasso-petrolio/. ” We was waiting the peak oil. But arrived peak demand and now go down”
Joe Walsh – Life’s Been Good
Our finite worlders are just as dumb and mentally enslaved as the rest of the population….believing in outright hoaxes.
https://i.redd.it/6h2rfqm21br41.jpg
“They” are literally mocking how dumb you all are with tigers and animals getting COVID yet you still don’t understand do you?
When the time comes, the vaccines will be ready, they will abolish cash, you will be forced to take the “mark” and because you are little more than a brainwashed slave you will accept.
Fast Eddy….your IQ is that of a M O R O N!
Yes, banning cash has been the wet dream of TPTB for a long time. Banning cash will allow them to watch every move you make because you will be tracked at all times. When cash goes bye bye, they will control your life because if you decide you want to start a Yellow Vest movement in your country or you decide to protest and revolt like in Hong Kong, they can cut you off where you won’t be able to sell or buy anything. If you are not spending enough to keep the economy going, they will pick your pockets until you start spending.
George Orwell didn’t even come up with this stuff but here we are and it’s coming to every country on the planet. Covid 19 was their excuse to get the ball rolling.
Yep, the issue being many W govs envy and ust for these Chinese/Asian authoritarian powers and control schemes, so it’s only question of the right – convenient opportunity to phase them in their locale as well..
The only time I can recall using cash in the past 6 months is when I played summer league hockey and paid 20 bucks for the ice time. Other than hockey I doubt I use cash more than a dozen times per year.
So mission accomplished.
And Trump is a very stable genius.
@FE
Ha Ha Ha…..someone had to give you a hard time atleast once for these antics I’ve read over the years?
I enjoy your posts!
Good day Mate.
I am so disappointed to read that Dave is dead… http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/about-dave/
We may be looking at the digital footprint of the only 1000 IQ person in history http://centerforaninformedamerica.com/
The whole shabang will only stop when we have reached the Dunbar numer
Dear International Readers, which countries offer mail order CV19 testing? I would like to be tested. Even better tested redundantly. If you know of a lab offering service by mail/fedex please let me know. Thanks.
The envelope could have tiger germs on it. Imagine if you turned into a weretiger with COVID-19. You would be persona non grata with any doctor.
My father age 89 is getting bored. He longs to play canasta with his friends. There is only so much garden planting one person can do.
Buy a cloth face mask for yourself, your dad and his buddies, soak them in PVP-I. Apply topical solution on his hands, face and nostrils. Put some in a spray bottle and give the old timers clothes a good douse and instruct him to keep his distances.
If it is possible, source a HEPA air filter and place it in the same room with the card players.
It is how all of us will be doing once the quarantine BS ends. It will be as good as it gets in terms of viral load control.
Much of the world peaked two weeks ago. Most of world on the easing down slope of deaths per day. Even NYC on down slope. Poor Cuomo will have a hard time keeping the crisis going. Minor kill rate world wide and many of those old and sick. Looks like a big nothing. The theatrics to keep this going will be painful to watch. Oh the babies in the incubators……
you forgot the second wave…
and the third wave etc… 😉
This event is staged and fake. There is no COVID.
Really?
Today……………..
Russia reports another concerning jump in cases
Downing Street offers update on Johnson’s condition
Abe kicks off Japan’s 1-month state of emergency
Spain reports jump in deaths following drop over the weekend
Wuhan lifts lockdown
US death toll tops 11k
Italy reports another deceleration in cases + deaths
Spanish deaths tick higher
UK reports deadliest day yet
New York State reports biggest one-day jump in deaths with 731
Spain reports nearly 900 deaths
Germany reports another jump in deaths
France reports massive jump in deaths breaking above 10k; case total breaks above 100k
Global deaths pass 80k while recoveries pass 300k
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-outbreak-worsens-european-numbers-continue-fall-global-covid-19-infections-near-15
Fully agree, Worldof, events often cast their shadows some time before,and it’s always an interesting subject for speculation, how this wounded beast will twist and turn, lash out and crush….
How anyone can expect ‘De-growth’ to be in any way benign, or usher in a better world, utterly defeats me though!
Although I’m wary of sounding too cynical or pessimistic, nothing bodes well.
Now it is personal. Ethanol was for the farmer a source of cashflow, it transferred money from driving society as a whole to the farmer, helped maintain food supply, helped support agricultural manufacturing which provided good, union jobs. Helped support local coops which provided good off farm jobs for farmers, helped support local communities and schools. It was a redistributive process, it never worked thermodynamically as most of us know.
Of course, all the armchair farmers can now rejoice that as Kunstler says, more people will be working on the farm. Wait until they find it is one of them who is back on the farm, it is very hard, low margin work and it looks like the margins just got worse. All margins suck without cheap energy.
https://www.agriculture.com/news/business/poet-idles-ethanol-plants-corn-farmers-lose-home-for-27-billion-bushels?hid=ae2deb48cf78968d3b2abd8d78eb3d470b87f160&did=509530-20200407&utm_campaign=todays-news_newsletter&utm_source=agriculture.com&utm_medium=email&utm_content=040720&cid=509530&mid=31934382485
Dennis L.
So the largest ethanol producers is reducing production, because people are driving fewer miles. I thought this was humorous:
Yes, of course hand sanitizing is more than a small stretch.
Ethanol was a somewhat stable market as long as miles driven remained consistent, it was a consistent price for farmers to sell into at almost any given time. It was also a source of feed(some have opinions as to the actual value) to cattle producers who one would not expect to require other sources. Ethanol was in effect a baseload for grain farmers in the midwest.
Even in something as local as corn and ethanol it is a very interconnected market.
Ethanol never worked as a fuel source, but ethanol did lesson the need for direct subsidizes to farmers. Farming has year long lead times assuming no crop failures, buffers need to be built in especially given the size of the world population.
Farmers are old, lose a few of them and it is a significant part of the producer population. Around me more land is showing for sale signs.
This is a hell of a mess.
Dennis L.
COVID rates seem to be low in farm states. The population density is too low. People don’t spend enough time in shared transit options, or in restaurants. So I don’t think we have a lot to worry about directly from COVID-19 directly affecting population. Low food prices and disrupted markets are likely to be a problem, however.
The remainder that was left after making ethanol from corn was fed to livestock of various types. It isn’t very good food for them, but they can tolerate some of it in their diet. So either this type of food will need to be replaced by something else (such as just plain corn), or livestock production will fall. Perhaps that is not an issue.
Help, help
Americans struggle to delay mortgage payments as lenders ‘can’t handle’ 1,896% spike amid coronavirus
Dhara SinghReporter
Yahoo MoneyApril 7, 2020, 10:01 AM EDT
While loan servicers can allow homeowners and landlords with mortgages backed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to delay payments for up to a year due to the coronavirus, they haven’t been able to keep up with the demand from borrowers.
The Mortgage Bankers Association reported Tuesday morning that mortgage forbearance requests had increased by 1,896% between March 16 and March 30. This is an uptick from the week before when forbearance requests jumped by 1,270%.
Hold times for calls jumped to 17.5 minutes from under 2 minutes just three weeks ago, while the percentage of callers who hung up hit 25% from 5%, according to the MBA
Lenders across the board, they’re doing the responsible thing in that their employees are working from home like the rest of us, so the typical efficiency of servicers is now down 25%, 30%,” said Federal Housing Finance Agency Director Mark Calabria in a recent conversation with Yahoo Finance. “They can’t handle the call volume.”
Cheques in the mail…. sort of
God help us….this has just begun
Nissan laying off 10,000 workers, Honda putting thousands more on leave
Zac Palmer
AutoblogApril 7, 2020, 9:40 AM EDT
As of now, Nissan has announced plant shutdowns lasting through late April. The report says Nissan plans to rehire the workers that are being laid off once work is possible again, but they won’t be getting paid in the meantime. We’ve asked for comment from Nissan to learn if everybody will be brought back on, or if Nissan has other plans in mind for restarting its factories.
Meanwhile, the report also says that Honda will be putting half of its U.S. staff (over 10,000 employees) on temporary leave. The move affects factory workers in Ohio and Alabama factories, but it will reportedly extend to other states, as well. This temporary leave will be up at the end of April, according to the report. A Honda spokesperson says that salaries will be guaranteed through Sunday.
Try finding another job now with everything shut down…
There will be massive begging in the parking lots soon at the grocery stores.
I’m always amused by the Greenies such as Greta Thunberg who want to eliminate fossil fuels from our lives. And yet the Automobile is still such a large part of the global economy. Not only does it affect the manufacture and it’s employees but it filters down to Banks who make the loans possible, the repair shops, car care specialty services and so on.
It’s not just factory workers who get hurt.
Our global economic system is a ponzi scheme, we constantly need to grow and add more and more humans….our species is a ponzi scheme….we are in complete overshoot!!
These 12 charts show how the world’s population has exploded in the last 200 years:
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/07/populations-around-world-changed-over-the-years
Thanks! Of course, the forecasts to 2100 assume that business as usual will continue.
Isolation saves lives!
https://www.nsc.org/road-safety/safety-topics/fatality-estimates
-“How Did Industrial Civilization Collapse?”
-“Two Ways. Gradually (2008-2019) and Then Suddenly (2020).”
-ITEOTWAWKI 😉
I am afraid you may be right. But even the suddenly part may have steps to it, and may vary by part of the world.
I agree that it’s over, what we once had. We must have the global banks/credit markets working, and they are.
When they go, we are over the cliff.
I summarise Gail, from this and prior posts and her recent interview on Collapse Chronicles, where she begins by outlining the imminent dangers of our world economy and living patterns prior to the coronavirus shutdowns. I take it she thinks the global economy, national and maybe state governments, and even our industrial civilisational patterns of living will probably collapse within a few months. I extrapolate this to mean that within several more months control by local authorities, or some emergent perhaps war lord type systems depending on the local situation, will increasingly ration food, movement, electricity, gas, water supply, etc. using emergency laws enforced by police or military.
I am in Perth Western Australia and conclude that the system will decline in a relatively gradual step-wise manner compared to other nations and states. I am hunkering down, prepping, and planning for home-self defence. Paraphrasing Gail and other posters (apologies), I tentatively foresee, mainly in my national, state and local communities:
1. Wage and wealth disparity will greatly increase creating big problems and leading to an increase in individual and organised crime burglaries, crime, and assaults.
2. The total quantity of essential goods and services available to purchase will decrease and those available will rise in price perhaps markedly.
3. It will become increasingly that the world economy is in worse condition than it was before the shutdown. The longer the shutdowns continue the worse it will be. I fear things will be even worse than the 1930s.
4. There probably will be more local wars, and threats of war as the world solidifies into defence pacts blocs and trading blocs. Military conscription will probably be re-introduced.
5. Extreme weather will increase due to the changes already underway and worsened by a reduction in global dimming. This will worsen everything.
6. There will be an increase mass migration world wide and boat people hitting Australia’s shores.
7. Unemployed eligible persons on welfare will be asked to work in various mainly government public projects including transport, energy, water, agriculture, para-military, police, etc.
My question is about buying or trading in cryptocurrencies. Is it worth it? I mean is the effort worth the money one presumably probably will make out of it. Or is it better to relax, live large, and thoroughly enjoy our last few weeks or months of freedom and luxury?
My question is about buying or trading in cryptocurrencies.
Hint:
I doubt it will make it into the top 100 of your concerns.
I agree that there may very well be steps involved. Some parts of the world may fare better than others, at least when looking at results on a week to week and month to month basis. Looking at the world ten years from now, there may be more uniformity, or more different partial solutions that sort of work in different parts of the world.
I think electricity is one of the big question marks. Where electricity disappears, there is definitely a problem. Australia with its coal is probably in better shape than a lot of places, at least in the part of Australia using coal. The problem may be keeping the price of electricity high enough that the coal producers can make money.
I don’t have much faith in cryptocurrencies myself. Once electricity is gone, it is clearly gone.
Spend your money on things that you enjoy now. Some people may feel that they can plan somewhat for the future. I planted a couple of tomato plants, an eggplant, and a pepper. It doesn’t hurt.
Maybe the electricity will be gone but don’t worry at all, you will still be able to use batteries to get your bitcoins off of the internet, that’s just so obvious. I say go for it, buy some crypto and let us know how it works out!
Seriously though, thanks for the crypto currency chuckle, I really enjoyed that! lol
The internet does not run on batteries. Gigawatts of power used by the the repeaters, servers, NSA over site, domain name servers, etc….
I agree all
In Italia Will be more bad. No coal
“St. Louis Federal Reserve Head says Americans should be tested for COVID-19 daily and forced to display a badge on their clothing with the result.”
Testing, testing…
https://twitter.com/i/status/1247510309990010880
Only a badge for now? What an incrementalist with rising career potential.
/sarc off
Bad dog!
stay in the dog house
wear a mask
wear a tag
get vasuenuated
roll over
beg
fetch
Well, you could test negative today and then get sneezed on by the postman tomorrow.
The St. Louis Federal Reserve Head is a minion of the El-ders, isn’t he?
Yeah, and carrying that stuff around as particles on your sexy new badge, clothes, hair, hands and shoes. It is all BS. The only effective mitigation strategy is:
1. PPE, N95-N99 face masks for everybody
2. HEPA air filtration in houses, apartments, hospitals, offices and public spaces
3. Antimicrobial coats on surfaces and PVP-I on humans
These so called “medicines” and “ventilators” is merely addressing the consequences of not implementing effective mitigation in steps 1-3.
The US military seems to be a bunch of practical people, have you guys got down implementing 1-3 yet?
There are people who are allergic to PVP-I (which I think of as “Betadine”). I know that my husband is, for example. I expect with widespread use, the allergy problem would get worse, rather than better.
I expect that PVP-I would inadvertently get into the food supply as well. Don’t you think that having this chemical around in large quantities could be a problem?
Povidone Iodine seems to have become the go-to antiseptic/anti viral – however it comes in a variety of strengths (although these never seem to be specified) 10% in alcohol is the standard 1% available iodine. It’s our standard first aid treatment. People with iodine sensitivity are rare. However I don’t see the point of drinking a diluted solution (unless you have goiter). I suspect a 20:1 dilution with alcohol or even water would be a quite effective anti viral wipe down. Of course it was developed as a no-sting substitute for tincture of iodine.
Sounds like lots of money for those making COVID-19 tests. Too bad they don’t work terribly well. Control of population, as in China!
There’s either something very bad about this virus…or…they use it for population control during the collapse.
Or maybe both…
I really don’t know.
What is happening is very difficult to understand. It may well be that those who have learned how to grab the levers of power understood that in an age of excess energy, perception was reality and they manipulated perception across the spectrum. Financial reality was perception, governing perception was reality. It is probably self organizing and no one is even close to being in control.
Man is most resilient, what does not work is discarded one way or another. Currently the issue is a virus, with us as individuals we are wondering if we are one of those who survive due to genetics or one who needs intervention.
Groups that chose the wrong way are not unlike lemmings, periodically so it is said they go off a cliff, but not all. It is well known the earth is past carrying capacity for humans, perhaps it is time, the metaphorical Greta’s of the world may be having their time. Most likely that time will not resemble the media events to which they have habituated themselves, reality will be somewhat different, close and personal.
Many on this site have expressed interest in enjoying their popcorn as the world fails. It will be interesting to see their reactions as it becomes up close and personal.
Dennis L.
Those people probably imagine they will be in the auditorium, when in fact they will on the stage, in the limelight…..
Collapse comes to one person at a time. You get trouble paying bills, lose your job, eating scraps, moving to cheap run down living arrangements. Getting robbed. No televised collapse with spectacular nukes going off or zombie hordes moved down.
There is no “virus”
It is 5G directed.
If it is to control population numbers, dont it have to kilo way more?
Covid has so far killed about 8 hours of population growth.
Here are terrible news for you: 100 (hundred) percent of all people who died or will die where or will be alive before.
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