Why financial approaches won’t fix the world’s economic problems this time

Time and time again, financial approaches have worked to fix economic problems. Raising interest rates has acted to slow the economy and lowering them has acted to speed up the economy. Governments overspending their incomes also acts to push the economy ahead; doing the reverse seems to slow economies down.

What could possibly go wrong? The issue is a physics problem. The economy doesn’t run simply on money and debt. It operates on resources of many kinds, including energy-related resources. As the population grows, the need for energy-related resources grows. The bottleneck that occurs is something that is hard to see in advance; it is an affordability bottleneck.

For a very long time, financial manipulations have been able to adjust affordability in a way that is optimal for most players. At some point, resources, especially energy resources, get stretched too thin, relative to the rising population and all the commitments that have been made, such as pension commitments. As a result, there is no way for the quantity of goods and services produced to grow sufficiently to match the promises that the financial system has made. This is the real bottleneck that the world economy reaches.

I believe that we are closely approaching this bottleneck today. I recently gave a talk to a group of European officials at the 2nd Luxembourg Strategy Conference, discussing the issue from the European point of view. Europeans seem to be especially vulnerable because Europe, with its early entry into the Industrial Revolution, substantially depleted its fossil fuel resources many years ago. The topic I was asked to discuss was, “Energy: The interconnection of energy limits and the economy and what this means for the future.”

In this post, I write about this presentation.

Slide 3

The major issue is that money, by itself, cannot operate the economy, because we cannot eat money. Any model of the economy must include energy and other resources. In a finite world, these resources tend to deplete. Also, human population tends to grow. At some point, not enough goods and services are produced for the growing population.

I believe that the major reason we have not been told about how the economy really works is because it would simply be too disturbing to understand the real situation. If today’s economy is dependent on finite fossil fuel supplies, it becomes clear that, at some point, these will run short. Then the world economy is likely to face a very difficult time.

A secondary reason for the confusion about how the economy operates is too much specialization by researchers studying the issue. Physicists (who are concerned about energy) don’t study economics; politicians and economists don’t study physics. As a result, neither group has a very broad understanding of the situation.

I am an actuary. I come from a different perspective: Will physical resources be adequate to meet financial promises being made? I have had the privilege of learning a little from both economic and physics sides of the discussion. I have also learned about the issue from a historical perspective.

Slide 4
Slide 5

World energy consumption has been growing very rapidly at the same time that the world economy has been growing. This makes it hard to tell whether the growing energy supply enabled the economic growth, or whether the higher demand created by the growing economy encouraged the world economy to use more resources, including energy resources.

Physics says that it is energy resources that enable economic growth.

Slide 6

The R-squared of GDP as a function of energy is .98, relative to the equation shown.

Slide 7

Physicists talk about the “dissipation” of energy. In this process, the ability of an energy product to do “useful work” is depleted. For example, food is an energy product. When food is digested, its ability to do useful work (provide energy for our body) is used up. Cooking food, whether using a campfire or electricity or by burning natural gas, is another way of dissipating energy.

Humans are clearly part of the economy. Every type of work that is done depends upon energy dissipation. If energy supplies deplete, the form of the economy must change to match.

Slide 8

There are a huge number of systems that seem to grow by themselves using a process called self-organization. I have listed a few of these on Slide 8. Some of these things are alive; most are not. They are all called “dissipative structures.”

The key input that allows these systems to stay in a “non-dead” state is dissipation of energy of the appropriate type. For example, we know that humans need about 2,000 calories a day to continue to function properly. The mix of food must be approximately correct, too. Humans probably could not live on a diet of lettuce alone, for example.

Economies have their own need for energy supplies of the proper kind, or they don’t function properly. For example, today’s agricultural equipment, as well as today’s long-distance trucks, operate on diesel fuel. Without enough diesel fuel, it becomes impossible to plant and harvest crops and bring them to market. A transition to an all-electric system would take many, many years, if it could be done at all.

Slide 9

I think of an economy as being like a child’s building toy. Gradually, new participants are added, both in the form of new citizens and new businesses. Businesses are formed in response to expected changes in the markets. Governments gradually add new laws and new taxes. Supply and demand seem to set market prices. When the system seems to be operating poorly, regulators step in, typically adjusting interest rates and the availability of debt.

One key to keeping the economy working well is the fact that those who are “consumers” closely overlap those who are “employees.” The consumers (= employees) need to be paid well enough, or they cannot purchase the goods and services made by the economy.

A less obvious key to keeping the economy working well is that the whole system needs to be growing. This is necessary so that there are enough goods and services available for the growing population. A growing economy is also needed so that debt can be repaid with interest, and so that pension obligations can be paid as promised.

Slide 10

World population has been growing year after year, but arable land stays close to constant. To provide enough food for this rising population, more intensive agriculture is required, often including irrigation, fertilizers, herbicides and pesticides.

Furthermore, an increasing amount of fresh water is needed, leading to a need for deeper wells and, in some places, desalination to supplement other water sources. All these additional efforts add energy usage, as well as costs.

In addition, mineral ores and energy supplies of all kinds tend to become depleted because the best resources are accessed first. This leaves the more expensive-to-extract resources for later.

Slide 11

The issues in Slide 11 are a continuation of the issues described on Slide 10. The result is that the cost of energy production eventually rises so much that its higher costs spill over into the cost of all other goods and services. Workers find that their paychecks are not high enough to cover the items they usually purchased in the past. Some poor people cannot even afford food and fresh water.

Slide 12
Slide 13

Increasing debt is helpful as an economy grows. A farmer can borrow money for seed to grow a crop, and he can repay the debt, once the crop has grown. Or an entrepreneur can finance a factory using debt.

On the consumer side, debt at a sufficiently low interest rate can be used to make the purchase of a home or vehicle affordable.

Central banks and others involved in the financial world figured out many years ago that if they manipulate interest rates and the availability of credit, they are generally able to get the economy to grow as fast as they would like.

Slide 14

It is hard for most people to imagine how much interest rates have varied over the last century. Back during the Great Depression of the 1930s and the early 1940s, interest rates were very close to zero. As large amounts of inexpensive energy were added to the economy in the post-World War II period, the world economy raced ahead. It was possible to hold back growth by raising interest rates.

Oil supply was constrained in the 1970s, but demand and prices kept rising. US Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volker is known for raising interest rates to unheard of heights (over 15%) with a peak in 1981 to end inflation brought on by high oil prices. This high inflation rate brought on a huge recession from which the economy eventually recovered, as the higher prices brought more oil supply online (Alaska, North Sea, and Mexico), and as substitution was made for some oil use. For example, home heating was moved away from burning oil; electricity-production was mostly moved from oil to nuclear, coal and natural gas.

Another thing that has helped the economy since 1981 has been the ability to stimulate demand by lowering interest rates, making monthly payments more affordable. In 2008, the US added Quantitative Easing as a way of further holding interest rates down. A huge debt bubble has thus been built up since 1981, as the world economy has increasingly been operated with an increasing amount of debt at ever-lower interest rates. (See 3-month and 10 year interest rates shown on Slide 14.) This cheap debt has allowed rapidly rising asset prices.

Slide 15

The world economy starts hitting major obstacles when energy supply stops growing faster than population because the supply of finished goods and services (such as new automobile, new homes, paved roads, and airplane trips for passengers) produced stops growing as rapidly as population. These obstacles take the form of affordability obstacles. The physics of the situation somehow causes the wages and wealth to be increasingly concentrated among the top 10% or 1%. Lower-paid individuals are increasingly left out. While goods are still produced, ever-fewer workers can afford more than basic necessities. Such a situation makes for unhappy workers.

World energy consumption per capita hit a peak in 2018 and began to slide in 2019, with an even bigger drop in 2020. With less energy consumption, world automobile sales began to slide in 2019 and fell even lower in 2020. Protests, often indirectly related to inadequate wages or benefits, became an increasing problem in 2019. The year 2020 is known for Covid-19 related shutdowns and flight cancellations, but the indirect effect was to reduce energy consumption by less travel and by broken supply lines leading to unavailable goods. Prices of fossil fuels dropped far too low for producers.

Governments tried to get their own economies growing by various techniques, including spending more than the tax revenue they took in, leading to a need for more government debt, and by Quantitative Easing, acting to hold down interest rates. The result was a big increase in the money supply in many countries. This increased money supply was often distributed to individual citizens as subsidies of various kinds.

The higher demand caused by this additional money tended to cause inflation. It tended to raise fossil fuel prices because the inexpensive-to-extract fuels have mostly been extracted. In the days of Paul Volker, more energy supply at a little higher price was available within a few years. This seems extremely unlikely today because of diminishing returns. The problem is that there is little new oil supply available unless prices can stay above at least $120 per barrel on a consistent basis, and prices this high, or higher, do not seem to be available.

Oil prices are not rising this high, even with all of the stimulus funds because of the physics-based wage disparity problem mentioned previously. Also, those with political power try to keep fuel prices down so that the standards of living of citizens will not fall. Because of these low oil prices, OPEC+ continues to make cuts in production. The existence of chronically low prices for fossil fuels is likely the reason why Russia behaves in as belligerent a manner as it does today.

Today, with rising interest rates and Quantitative Tightening instead of Quantitative Easing, a major concern is that the debt bubble that has grown since in 1981 will start to collapse. With falling debt levels, prices of assets, such as homes, farms, and shares of stock, can be expected to fall. Many borrowers will be unable to repay their loans.

If this combination of events occurs, deflation is a likely outcome because banks and pension funds are likely to fail. If, somehow, local governments are able to bail out banks and pension funds, then there is a substantial likelihood of local hyperinflation. In such a case, people will have huge quantities of money, but practically nothing available to buy. In either case, the world economy will shrink because of inadequate energy supply.

Slide 16
Slide 17

Most people have a “normalcy bias.” They assume that if economic growth has continued for a long time in the past, it necessarily will occur in the future. Yet, we all know that all dissipative structures somehow come to an end. Humans can come to an end in many ways: They can get hit by a car; they can catch an illness and succumb to it; they can die of old age; they can starve to death.

History tells us that economies nearly always collapse, usually over a period of years. Sometimes, population rises so high that the food production margin becomes tight; it becomes difficult to set aside enough food if the cycle of weather should turn for the worse. Thus, population drops when crops fail.

In the years leading up to collapse, it is common that the wages of ordinary citizens fall too low for them to be able to afford an adequate diet. In such a situation, epidemics can spread easily and kill many citizens. With so much poverty, it becomes impossible for governments to collect enough taxes to maintain services they have promised. Sometimes, nations lose at war because they cannot afford a suitable army. Very often, governmental debt becomes non-repayable.

The world economy today seems to be approaching some of the same bottlenecks that more local economies hit in the past.

Slide 18

The basic problem is that with inadequate energy supplies, the total quantity of goods and services provided by the economy must shrink. Thus, on average, people must become poorer. Most individual citizens, as well as most governments, will not be happy about this situation.

The situation becomes very much like the game of musical chairs. In this game, one chair at a time is removed. The players walk around the chairs while music plays. When the music stops, all participants grab for a chair. Someone gets left out. In the case of energy supplies, the stronger countries will try to push aside the weaker competitors.

Slide 19

Countries that understand the importance of adequate energy supplies recognize that Europe is relatively weak because of its dependence on imported fuel. However, Europe seems to be oblivious to its poor position, attempting to dictate to others how important it is to prevent climate change by eliminating fossil fuels. With this view, it can easily keep its high opinion of itself.

If we think about the musical chairs’ situation and not enough energy supplies to go around, everyone in the world (except Europe) would be better off if Europe were to be forced out of its high imports of fossil fuels. Russia could perhaps obtain higher energy export prices in Asia and the Far East. The whole situation becomes very strange. Europe tells itself it is cutting off imports to punish Russia. But, if Europe’s imports can remain very low, everyone else, from the US, to Russia, to China, to Japan would benefit.

Slide 20

The benefits of wind and solar energy are glorified in Europe, with people being led to believe that it would be easy to transition from fossil fuels, and perhaps leave nuclear, as well. The problem is that wind, solar, and even hydroelectric energy supply are very undependable. They cannot ever be ramped up to provide year-round heat. They are poorly adapted for agricultural use (except for sunshine helping crops grow).

Few people realize that the benefits that wind and solar provide are tiny. They cannot be depended on, so companies providing electricity need to maintain duplicate generating capacity. Wind and solar require far more transmission than fossil-fuel-generated electricity because the best sources are often far from population centers. When all costs are included (without subsidy), wind and solar electricity tend to be more expensive than fossil-fuel generated electricity. They are especially difficult to rely on in winter. Therefore, many people in Europe are concerned about possibly “freezing in the dark,” as soon as this winter.

There is no possibility of ever transitioning to a system that operates only on intermittent electricity with the population that Europe has today, or that the world has today. Wind turbines and solar panels are built and maintained using fossil fuel energy. Transmission lines cannot be maintained using intermittent electricity alone.

Slide 21
Slide 22

Basically, Europe must use very much less fossil fuel energy, for the long term. Citizens cannot assume that the war with Ukraine will soon be over, and everything will be back to the way it was several years ago. It is much more likely that the freeze-in-the-dark problem will be present every winter, from now on. In fact, European citizens might actually be happier if the climate would warm up a bit.

With this as background, there is a need to figure out how to use less energy without hurting lifestyles too badly. To some extent, changes from the Covid-19 shutdowns can be used, since these indirectly were ways of saving energy. Furthermore, if families can move in together, fewer buildings in total will need to be heated. Cooking can perhaps be done for larger groups at a time, saving on fuel.

If families can home-school their children, this saves both the energy for transportation to school and the energy for heating the school. If families can keep younger children at home, instead of sending them to daycare, this saves energy, as well.

A major issue that I do not point out directly in this presentation is the high energy cost of supporting the elderly in the lifestyles to which they have become accustomed. One issue is the huge amount and cost of healthcare. Another is the cost of separate residences. These costs can be reduced if the elderly can be persuaded to move in with family members, as was done in the past. Pension programs worldwide are running into financial difficulty now, with interest rates rising. Countries with large elderly populations are likely to be especially affected.

Slide 23

Besides conserving energy, the other thing people in Europe can do is attempt to understand the dynamics of our current situation. We are in a different world now, with not enough energy of the right kinds to go around.

The dynamics in a world of energy shortages are like those of the musical chairs’ game. We can expect more fighting. We cannot expect that countries that have been on our side in the past will necessarily be on our side in the future. It is more like being in an undeclared war with many participants.

Under ideal circumstances, Europe would be on good terms with energy exporters, even Russia. I suppose at this late date, nothing can be done.

A major issue is that if Europe attempts to hold down fossil fuel prices, the indirect result will be to reduce supply. Oil, natural gas and coal producers will all reduce supply before they will accept a price that they consider too low. Given the dependence of the world economy on energy supplies, especially fossil fuel energy supplies, this will make the situation worse, rather than better.

Wind and solar are not replacements for fossil fuels. They are made with fossil fuels. We don’t have the ability to store up solar energy from summer to winter. Wind is also too undependable, and battery capacity too low, to compensate for need for storage from season to season. Thus, without a growing supply of fossil fuels, it is impossible for today’s economy to continue in its current form.

About Gail Tverberg

My name is Gail Tverberg. I am an actuary interested in finite world issues - oil depletion, natural gas depletion, water shortages, and climate change. Oil limits look very different from what most expect, with high prices leading to recession, and low prices leading to financial problems for oil producers and for oil exporting countries. We are really dealing with a physics problem that affects many parts of the economy at once, including wages and the financial system. I try to look at the overall problem.
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3,503 Responses to Why financial approaches won’t fix the world’s economic problems this time

  1. Michael Le Merchant says:

    The western world has been given a rare, intimate look inside the confines of a Chinese Covid-19 concentration camp, after Financial Times Shanghai correspondent Thomas Hale was ensnared by the President Xi Jinping’s zero-Covid regime.

    It’s not that Hale had tested positive. Merely being designated as a “close contact” was enough to sentence him to 10 days of confinement on a secret island camp identified only as “P7.”

    Hale provides a primer on framework of China’s system works:

    “PCR testing in China is an almost daily ritual and testing booths are common on many street corners. They look vaguely like food stalls, except they’re larger and cube-shaped and a worker inside sits behind Plexiglas cut with two arm holes.

    They are merely the surface machinery of a vast monitoring system. China’s digital Covid pass resembles track-and-trace programmes elsewhere, except it’s mandatory and it works. Using Alipay or WeChat, the country’s two major apps, a QR code is linked to each person’s most recent test results. The code must be scanned to get in anywhere, thereby tracking your location. Green means you can enter; red means you have a problem.”

    • Student says:

      It is exactly what they wanted to apply in Italy with the system:
      vaccination + green pass.
      At the moment it seems that the attempt failed.
      But it is not guaranteed that they will not try to find another system of control.

      • Rodster says:

        This was never about Covid. It was always about complete control over the Plebs. This crap started after 911 in the US when the Patriot Act was started which gave us the TSA.

        Boris Johnson is another example why the Covid1984 scam was called out for the fraud it was. He locked down his country and was later found out to be partying while everyone else had to live by his Covid rules.

        • Student says:

          If we consider for a moment the possibility that Sars-Cov2 escaped from a lab through a voluntary act, we could also consider the hypotesis that it has been released on purpose exactly because a vaccine was not ready yet.
          In other words: in order to make this plan fail.
          But this is only an hypotesis.
          In fact, if the Covid-19 vaccines had been effective, the plan would have been a success and we would all be living now under covid-passports regulation, everywhere….

          • Withnail says:

            But this kind of techno-repression will soon fall apart when the electricity stops working. It’s of no long term importance even if it had been installed.

          • ivanislav says:

            No, we would have civil war before that. 30% of the population has refused all shots. If people need shots to survive, the guns come out.

            • CTG says:

              Guns come out? You mean like in USA? Red lines gave been crossed many times…. I see no guns….

              This coming mid terms or any forced vaccinations, I am not expecting any guns.. same as before

        • sciouscience says:

          seems like it might have started in earnest in 1971. No politics nor ideology apparent here, just graphs. wwXXw.wtfhappenedin1971.com

    • Fast Eddy says:

      They did some of this in HK last year — high paid bankers got caught up in it — they packed them off to prisons with barely any warning .. fed them slop …

      As you can imagine these high flyers are very pissed off… they are quite pampered so locking them in boxes with slop quickly leads to mental illness.

      I would imagine there were some quite urgent discussions with the re tar ded CCP flunkies — informing them that if this continued there would be no financiers left to run the financial centre of China

      It stopped

    • Lidia17 says:

      All this must be fabulously expensive! How do they justify it?

  2. Michael Le Merchant says:

    Life Insurance Carnage

    Lincoln’s Shares Dropped 33% on a Net Loss of $2.6 Billion. Could it be the Jabs?

    Although I no longer make a sustainable income from it, I still have two weeks around earnings season every quarter where I edit and publish transcripts from publicly traded companies. It is that season and I have been busy with it for the past few days. I watch the life insurance space closely as all the carnage from the Covid “vaccines” and excess deaths of the working age population is going to show up in their numbers. My call for Lincoln Financial caught my attention this morning. The reinsurance company is bleeding red everywhere. From their press release:

    “Lincoln Financial Group (NYSE: LNC) today reported a net loss for the third quarter of 2022 of $(2.6) billion, or $(15.17) per diluted share available to common stockholders, compared to net income in the third quarter of 2021 of $318 million, or $1.68 per diluted share available to common stockholders. Third quarter adjusted loss from operations was $(1.7) billion, or $(10.23) per diluted share available to common stockholders, compared to adjusted income from operations of $307 million, or $1.62 per diluted share available to common stockholders, in the third quarter of 2021. 1”

    If I was a shareholder I’d be upset about that, but they took the hit and are restructuring for the future. Lincoln President and CEO Ellen Cooper had this to say.

    “In the recent years, we have been focused on shifting the product mix to a diversified set of solutions with lower guarantees, more risk sharing with the customer and improved capital efficiency.”

    That sounds a little bit like the solution to this is to not pay the life insurance policies of people who are dying. Now the Motley Fool explained that Lincoln’s 33% share price crash actually represented a great buying opportunity. I was hard pressed to find a single financial article regarding it that mentions what line of business the losses were in or why these losses were occurring. I had to go back to the earnings transcript for that.

    • Life insurance companies often provide guarantees on stock market returns in their annuities. (These may be funded by derivatives–I don’t know.) It is possible that such things are part of the problem.

      • Fast Eddy says:

        Can they not just copy what the UK public pension scheme did? That’s working out so well for them

    • Fast Eddy says:

      Haha… this will of course be the same story for all insurers…


    • I looked to see what else I could find.


      Net loss attributable to Prudential Financial, Inc. of $284 million or $0.78 per Common share versus net income of $1.530 billion or $3.90 per share for the year-ago quarter. [Not doing well!]

      “Our third quarter financial results reflect the impact of market conditions, including the variability in alternative investment returns and lower fee income, as well as an elevated level of COVID-19 hospitalization claims in Japan, partially offset by underlying business growth, including the benefit from rising interest rates.”

      I notice in the detail given that a lot of the problems seem to be related to investment results. – Gail

  3. Michael Le Merchant says:
  4. CTG says:

    French Nuclear Reactor Power Outlook Worsens Ahead Of Winter, Electricity Prices Erupt


    Read the comments. Seems to “doomier”

    • I received, “Sorry we are unable to load comments at this time.”

      To me, nuclear looks like it has been neglected for a long time in France. My guess is that rates have not been high enough for nuclear; the sector has been kept as low-priced as possible. There also have been bankruptcy problems with the French companies overseeing nuclear, plus scandals relating to not doing what they are supposed to be doing. I know that France’s uranium supply is now depleted. I don’t know whether that has any bearing on the problems.

      • Fast Eddy says:

        You need to login to see comments

      • Jef Jelten says:

        Also climate change induced droughts which are happening every year has forced dozens of NPP closures on an ongoing basis. This can’t be good for business.

        • I understand that quite a few nuclear power plants in France are on rivers. They have tended to raise the temperature of rivers too much. If water flow is lower (from climate change or natural variations in rainfall), the problem gets even worse. The site becomes unsuitable for nuclear, with its heavy use of water.

      • CTG says:

        For some reasons, one needs to refresh the website a few times to see comments. Maybe it is a software bug in ZH

  5. Fast Eddy says:

    Here I am in the common room of this hotel … the Great Fast Eddy pouring out brilliance on the interwebs… and 3 old geezers come in … flick on the mega sized Tee Vee — and on goes the ‘news’… Trump is on announcing his candidacy … and the geezers are moaning and wailing …

    You can see how powerful this Tee Vee thing is .. they are lip synching with the presenters… and reacting as if it’s all real.

    It’s a zoo.. a f789ing MORE-ON zoo!!! Fascinating stuff to see how the average person goes through life….I almost never get to see this behaviour… then they die… hahaha… they seem happy enough though… except when Trump appears on the Mega Tee Vee.

    I’ll get my power cable so I can watch them …

    • nikoB says:

      Are you travelling in OZ at the moment?
      If so are you coming to the east coast near Byron Bay?

      • Fast Eddy says:

        Exmouth + Coral Bay only …

        I am really keen to shoot some crocodiles though … but I am told that’s further north and it’s incredibly hot now so there is nowhere to stay… my timing is a bit off.

        It was 39C here the other day woo hoo… someone told me that before we started burning coal this place often had snow on the ground November and the ocean was usually still frozen.

        • nikoB says:

          Enjoy, a beautiful area I am told.

          • Fast Eddy says:

            Ya but there’s no VIP room in either place… nothing to do at night… and the restaurants are pretty … pretty … shite…

            Went to BBQfather https://thebbqfather.com.au/- really busy .. really shite… overcooked ribs with some sauce splattered on them … some frozen chips … not that it matters cuz I don’t eat chips — then a wilted side salad

            However all was not lost … I was seated across from two giant blimps – looked like it was a first date… the women was 25ish and looked to be pre-diabetic…

            she stuffed down a massive main … then the date enabled her offering up a couple of slabs of greasy pizza… (f789 ya I thought I heard her moan — e’ll be gettin rewarded for that later)… then they shared a huge plate of profiteroles… finger lickin good I guess…

            she poured back 3/4 a bottle of wine … (I guess he was driving) so she was properly wound up and Ready for Action

            This alone was worth the price of the shite meal… when nobody was looking I flicked the french fries into the bush for the rats to eat…

            On another night it was here on a recommendation https://www.whalersrestaurant.com.au/ – the photos are fake … greasy fish with more of those same frozen fries … sadly no bush to fling them into — thought about chucking them in the pool for the fish but then realized fish can’t live in chlorinated water…

            There was unfortunately no entertainment…

            So instead today I bought a dozen eggs and hard boiled them … two sacks of nuts.. some fruit… avos… I much prefer that over shite.

            Went diving this afternoon – there was a group of 5 uni graduates who are on working holidays… they’d be early 20’s… 4 of the 5 obese — probably pre-diabetic … also they’d be jabbed cuz they said they are going to some countries in asia and you need the jab so they all have VAIDS etc…. I’m thinking … what is wrong with these young people – what’s with the massive rolls of blubber – one of the guys had such a huge beer belly that he had trouble getting a wet suit to fit…

            Oh what the hell – they’ll all be dead soon … so live large in the short time you have left… I wished them tremendous success on their asian tour…. even though they are for sure all MORE-ONS.

            My dive buddy was a nice guy – works in the mines… he offered to send me the video he took… he was obese too… but jolly obese and very friendly… you know the type… jolly obese people are great – dontcha think?

            I wonder if they are jolly to compensate for the obesity… I wonder if a jolly obese person lost all the weight and was thin… if he’d no longer be jolly.

  6. Fast Eddy says:

    UK deaths https://t.me/downtherabbitholewegofolks/54236


    Warning NSW in early stages of next COVID-19 wave
    New South Wales residents have been warned the state is in the early stages of its next COVID-19 wave.

    • Xabier says:

      Send it up: get a hooter or klaxon and walk through town shouting ‘New Covid wave Imminent: get your booster to stay safe!’

      After all, you’d only be a concerned citizen assisting public health policy.

      Masked, you must be masked. Maybe double?

      • Fast Eddy says:

        Ya that would be fantastic… take the complete piss of this … but appear to be serious.

        Eeee Awwww… Red Alert — New Wave of Covid — Eeeee Awwww…. Red Alert Eeeee Awwwww


    • Spring is sort of a strange time for a new Covid-19 epidemic. We will see.

      Worldometers shows world deaths at about a record low, at about 1295 for November 3.
      (Scroll down)

  7. Fast Eddy says:


    Child Suddenly Collapses In The Middle Of Jab Enthusiast Dan Andrews’ Press Conference

    Dan Andrew pushed the experimental jab hard on the unsuspecting. Now this happens. Coincidence?

  8. adonis says:

    found another interesting clue pointing to the elders doing whatever they deemed necessary in an article from 1976 here are the main points that were made in the article which points to how far they will go to effect change. ԦInternational institutions must be adjusted or created to manage such common problems as the uses of the oceans and of space and the development of new energy sources.

    Summarizing the conference’s conclusions, Prof. Hell Jaguaribe, a Brazilian political scientist, said the danger to civilization if corrective measures were not taken was not that man would perish from a lack of food or raw materials, but that, long before that happened, democratic and humanistic institutions would he destroyed.

    Thanks for reading The Times.
    Subscribe to The Times
    “In the conditions of the coming times, the necessity of re‐establishing a viable world balance between population and resources—if the present generation is not able to timely adopt the necessary corrective measures—will inevitably tend to bring about a technocratic version of oriental despotism, of which Stalinism and Nazism have already given us an anticipated view,” Professor Jaguaribe said.

    Thus, in its most recent anal. yses, the Club of Rome contInues to hold firth the possihility of disaster if today’s pat. terns of growth and development are not modified.

    But the thrust of these warnings has shifted since the orga, nization’s first study, published in 1972, emphasized the physi. cal limits to growth, determined by the finitude of the earth’s resources.

    • I agree with your assessment that the warnings has shifted from the physical limits to growth. The Club of Rome has become a very “green” organization, pushing renewables and worrying about climate change.

      • MM says:

        If we assume that in the 70’s when LTG came out, there have not been wind mills or even wind farms by the hundreds with turbines offshore going to 5MW range and the amount of them needed unknown and the yields of them only a theory and the financial problems being out of the model, we can estimate that even when accounting for more resource deposits found, the outcome of the standard run is quite skewed into the “running out of resources” direction.
        Did we use rare earth elements to give any human on the planet a new smart phone annually or EVs with tons of rare earth elements in them (besides a lot of computing power)? Ah, data is the new oil.

        If you can’t make it, make it “green”.

  9. Fast Eddy says:

    Why Everybody You Know is Sick Right Now

    “For hospitals that have spent the past two years struggling to maintain capacity in the face of surging Covid-19 cases, this year has not brought any relief. The opposite, in fact. “We are very busy,” Kristina Bryant, an epidemiologist at Norton Children’s Hospital in Louisville, told me. “It’s different this year. … It’s not even Halloween, and many children’s hospitals are operating at or above capacity.”



    • Xabier says:

      Just starting to see vaxxed people I know coming down with nasty ‘Covid’. Yep, they are still testing……

      This is on top of the unusual ‘summer colds’ they had.

      The mild Omicron phase may be ending, let’s see.

      • Fast Eddy says:

        Good – let them suffer.

        I’ve just been schooled by an another old bag about how Putin is a villain who cannot be trusted…

        My eyes are bulging out of my head after that.. I can’t take it anymore … I tried to hob nob with the MORE-ONS.. but I’ll have to move to the Ritz where all the precious people are — the good thing about that is they are envious of each other so they don’t engage in MORE-ON banter.

        The old bag seemed a bit frightened by my reaction — she’s gone off to her room to check on her hubby… I betcha she was thinking of offering ol Fast Eddy a freebie Out Back by the Dumpster… which would have made for an uncomfortable situation cuz how do you turn down a freebie without causing offence….

        I suppose one could say — ya that would be great but I’ve been on the p-orn channel all afternoon and I just don’t have any power left… there’s always the faithful angle … but no one would believe that to be a valid reason to turn down an easy freebie… after all – when is anything in life free???

        Anyway this freaked her out and she’s gone now …


        • GBV says:

          I can relate.

          Not to being offered “freebies” by elderly ladies, no, but at least in terms of conversing with people about current events in Europe and being met with incredulous stares when I try to suggest that perhaps things are a bit more complicated than the mainstream narrative that Putin is simply a villain (i.e. Hitler 2.0).

          I suspect that our collective lapse of critical thinking here in the West will result in some great punishment for all of us (collapse?). But sometimes I feel as if it’s those of us who have maintained our wits who are punished the most – first, we have to be surrounded by zombies that cannot comprehend reality for what it actually is, and then we have to endure our collective punishment with said zombies when their illusion of reality is shattered.

          Seems unfair, but I suppose I’d continue to choose to keep my wits about me than to be a non-questioning, vaccine pin-cushion, war mongering zombie…


          • Fast Eddy says:

            I was having second thoughts about the freebie — what they hell — just for ‘the story’… I doubt M Fast would care — since it was just for fun + I’d of course take a photo so she could see it really was a weathered 75 yr old bag of wrinkles…

            A freebie from a geriatric zombie – they are the best! … worthy of a detailed post on OFW if I could make it happen.

            Haven’t seen her though and I’m off for another dive then moving on to Coral Bay…

            I’m here in the lounge with 5 minutes to spare before the pick up … it’s not looking good.

          • MM says:

            Pretty true words GBV.
            You could say, we have a temporal advantage but in the end it will yield nothing.

            I’m done with it.

    • A big part of the problem is keeping kids away from other children for a long time. It destroys the normal pattern of building immunity. The article says:

      Every child will catch RSV multiple times, most before they turn 2, and eventually build up immunity to it. But the problem right now is a lot of kids, even 3- or 4-year-olds, have no existing immunity after two years of mitigation measures and are getting infected for the first time.

      • Fast Eddy says:

        It’s not as if they were locked in plastic bubbles… the problem is they have messed up their immune systems and now have varying degrees of VAIDS due to the injections.

        Which is actually awesome! Idiots

  10. Student says:


    Biden: we will free Iran

    Raisi: Iran was freed 43 years ago


    • Rodster says:

      What Joe Bidet really meant to say was he intends on turning Iran into another sh*thole like Iraq, Libya, Syria etc. so the US never has to worry about Iran making trouble again for the US. World domination baby!

      • Xabier says:

        Iranians I know don’t get it: they hate the mullahs so much – deservedly – that they are eager for Revolution.

        They are like the Iraqis who eagerly pushed for the US invasion to get rid of Saddam, and haven’t learnt any lesson from that episode.

        They estimate deaths of demonstrators in the high hundreds so far. The frustrations of many years are boiling over it seems.

        • Rodster says:

          From my reading about Iraq and Saddam, he was the Godfather in Iraq and kept both sides in check. Which allowed for a certain order in the region. Once he was removed all those checks and balances allowed for ISIS to emerge which was even worse than Saddam running the place.

  11. MG says:

    The war is a collective psychosis caused by the imploding reality. Today’s leader of such psychopaths is Vladimir Putin.

    Instead of promoting energy saving activities, he likes violence, torture and killing.

    Do you see any energy saving activities in Russia today? They burn natgas because they do not have no use for it. The current leaders of Russia do not see that as a cold country they need to improve their energy efficiency more than the warmer West.

    The illusion of the reserves deep underground makes you forget how much effort is needed to get them out.

    Venezuela, Iran, Russia – the same story of psychosis and fight of the Satan inside themselves…

    • Ivanislav says:

      Yes, yes, the “unprovoked war of aggression”, he screeches!

    • Very Far Frank says:

      Two-dimensional drivel.

      We in the West have spent the last 20 solid years at war in the Middle East, partly over energy resources. Well over 500,000 have died in Iraq alone. Because our societies emphasize energy efficiency, we’re supposed to be less psychotic? Of course not- we’re all as psychotic as each other.

      Our media is particularly astute at seeming impartial, while asking no difficult questions of our own actions. Instead, they point at others and say, ‘Oh, how terrible..’

      I doubt Russia is burning natgas ‘because they have no use for it’. They’re simply selling less and need to burn off excess as they draw down on extraction. That situation is almost entirely caused by the Western insistence for geopolitically damaging and sanctimonious support for Ukraine.

    • gpdawson2016 says:

      MG… you mean Vladolf Putler.!!?

      Seriously, you didn’t mean all that stuff, did you?

    • NomadicBeer says:

      You are an useful idiot.

      Let’s all wish MG for next year that all his dearest wishes come true: Putin shall never sell his dirty oil and gas to Europe. We also wish you and your country be saved by the US and enjoy a great future – just like Libya, Iraq, Syria and most of South America,

    • Lastcall says:

      Shheeeesh. Wild eyed rant alert!
      Meds time dude.

    • Fred says:

      Oh those poor Azov sweeties being hurt by big bad Vlad. It’s just not fair.

      The EU should um sanction Russia. Yes that will show them what democracy is all about.

  12. Zerohedge says that the US employment level is not nearly as good as the widely distributed report based on the employer survey says. The household survey gives much better numbers, and it indicates that part-time jobs are being substituted for full time jobs.


    Something Has Snapped: Unexplained 2.3 Million Jobs Gap Emerges In Broken Payrolls Report

    So what’s going on here? The simple answer: there has been no change in the number of people actually employed, but due to deterioration in the economy, more people are losing their higher-paying, full-time jobs, and switching into much lower- paying, benefits-free part-time jobs, which also forces many to work more than one job, a rotation which picked up in earnest some time in March and which has only been captured by the Household survey. Meanwhile the Establishment survey plows on ahead with its politically-motivated approximations, seasonal adjustments, and other labor market goalseeking meant to make the Biden admin look good at least until after the midterms.

    The article points out that this pattern seems to take place before earlier elections, as well.

  13. Since Gail has a Scandinavian background she would probably heard stories like this.

    There is a famous Danish writer, Hans Christian Andersen. Little Mermaid, Ugly Duckling and all that. His tales are kinda harsh, but are soft enough to be taken as children’s tales.

    There was also another Danish writer called Anderson, Martin Anderson. Since everyone confused him with the Children’s book writer, he came to be called Nexo (after the village he lived at, in the Bornholm island which briefly became famous recently for another incident).

    Nexo’s best known book series is Pelle the Conqueror, about a boy, Pelle, and his father sold to Sweden as indentured laborers. It had 4 parts, but only the first part where Pelle is still a child and the book ends with some modicum of hope has been translated into other languages; the rest were never translated because they were even more harrowing than the first part which was nasty enough. It is partly autobiographical, i.e. he did experience some of the events in that book.

    Knut Hamsun was an educated man from Norway , but he fell into deep poverty and at 1890 he wrote his masterpiece, Hunger. (His later dedication for the 3rd Reich made him a persona non grata, but he probably didn’t want to starve again.)

    Herbie has pointed out 4 children who were sold from Indiana around 1948, and I tracked their fates (both boys having mental issues and not reproducing, one daughter having a child while never bothering to marry – one daughter did have a normal family but died before reaching retirement age.)

    Astrid Lindgren, best known for the Pippi Longstocking series, wrote “The Red Bird”, which is naturally seldom read nowdays.


    Tl, dr: Two siblings, whose parents had ‘died’, are SOLD to a farmer’s house for 1000 crowns (around $5,000 in today’s money). They are worked from 5am to 10pm and are given some potatoes and water which was used boiling some fish. In other words they were supposed to work till they dropped dead.

    Once, outside, they follow a Red Bird, who lead them to a paradise, and at the end of the story they close the door leading back to the real world, meaning they chose to freeze to death somewhere in the forest.

    And I am very sure that the farmer who bought them were very, very angry.

    Such was the reality of life in Scandinavia around the Turn of 20th century. Where we are going back, with the landlords full of vengeance about the peasants getting uppity for the last 120 years and are very happy to teach the real location of power with a lot of beating and kickings, and some occasional shooting.

    • Indentured servants and slaves seem to be very common around the world. I have never run into them in hearing about Norway, but they may very well have been there.

      My father’s father came over from Norway about 1896. He was the oldest child in a large family and would have inherited the family farm, if he had stayed in Norway. He realized that the small farm in the mountains could not possibly support very many people. It was already heavily in debt. I imagine hunger was a major issue at that time.

      • MM says:

        No, no, there will be no slaves, we will have robots!
        We are currently setting up the robot work camps, the robot identification systems, and the robot rationing system so that they automatically go where work s needed as well as the robot repair drones that come with liquids to provide software upgrades.
        When we are done with that we will see, what kind of robots we will put where.

      • in general terms, slaves as an economic force, (as opposed to a few odd ones) were used in regions where the sun’s input did a lot of the work.

        no point in keeping a slave where most of the slave’s output had to be utlised in feeding him and keeping him alive.

        with sugar cane, and cotton that problem didn’t arise

        • Xabier says:

          Historically not at all true, Norman.

          The Ancient Irish, Norse, Scots, Icelanders, Saxons, etc, all had slaves.

          If it hadn’t worked for them, they simply wouldn’t have done it.

          • that abyss of conclusion again—sucks you in every time xabier.

            i actually said ‘slaves as an economic force’–ie supporting the national economic system–cotton sugar cane etc.

            slaves in colder lands were not part of an economic system, just individuals.

            look before you leap

            • Even if slaves are “only” assigned to individuals, I would still call them part of the economic system. Perhaps they did not make roads and work in mines, but they still supported the economy.

            • i thought my meaning was pretty clear

              slaves supporting an economic system–ie producton of sugarcane cannot have the same effect as a slave kept in the household, of a saxon merchant or viking warlord.

              the ‘sugar and cotton’ slaves were held in their millions, and delivered the same relative force as fossil fuels do for us. (with the help of strong sunshine)

              the relative situation for us would be trying to compare whale oil production with thousands of oilwells

              both would run IC vehicles, but the effect on the economy is negligble, bearing in mind the effort needed to catch and process each whale

            • Tim Groves says:

              Norman, you are falling down on your basics there. In an attempt not to have to own up to a small mistake, you make a bigger one, and if you keep doing that it snowballs to the point where you have to constantly tell serious porkies that neither you nor your audience believes.

              The societies of medieval Northern Europe were slave-holding societies that revered military prowess and expressed wealth and power through symbols of warrior-hood. They were intensely hierarchical and patriarchal societies in which control, guardianship and naked power over people equated with status. Despite the growth of governmental and religious institutions, they remained societies obsessed with notions of honor and shame, with lineage and kinship, identity and belonging. This chapter explores some problematic historiographical assumptions around the diminishing significance of slavery in these cultural contexts, arguing that only when we acknowledge and recognize the slave-holding nature of these societies are we are better able to understand them. Close analysis of the lifestyle, attitudes, and cultural conceptions of the slave-holder and the enslaver are therefore essential. Indeed slave-holding behaviours are evident in a wide range of medieval sources including sagas, poetry, myths, chronicles, legal texts, manorial records, wills and manumissions as well as penitentials, sermons and hagiography. These sources reveal that enslaved people were regarded as the weakest, most dishonorable and degraded of all individuals. Paradoxically, they highlight that the marginalisation of enslaved human beings was extremely important for these communities – underpinning broader power relations and defining and reinforcing the boundaries of community identity and belonging.


            • a slave owning society is not the same thing as a slave society being an economic force

              if you are determined to twist my meaning, which was made very clear in the first comment on this thread–then that is your privelege

            • Xabier says:

              Thank you Gail, Tim.

              Norman, darling, do stop trying to be a universal sage and historian, you fall flat on your face every time. Stick to ‘wordsmithing’, whatever that is, and your, er, poetry.

              You spent your life writing no doubt excellent instruction manuals; I studied Dark Age history and society under Dr Keynes of Trinity College and gained a First – of less practical use, I’d be the first to agree, but see the difference?

              By the way, the Church owned slaves en mass, traded them, and couldn’t do without them, which made them as a class an integral part of a developed economic system, not just random unlucky individuals as you so erroneously maintain.

            • Lastcall says:

              ‘i thought my meaning was pretty clear’
              Oh dear Norm another ass umption!

              My favourite Normism is where you state ‘ my argument still stands’.
              Nup, never stood; it was never established and just blew away like the puff of smoke that it was.

              I was mightily impressed how at the end of a short diatribe you ass ummed that I was a conspiraholic because I disagreed with your (as always) broad statement.


            • Fast Eddy says:


              norm you should start a line of clothing … NOF

            • Withnail says:

              i actually said ‘slaves as an economic force’–ie supporting the national economic system–cotton sugar cane etc.

              slaves in colder lands were not part of an economic system, just individuals.

              There was an Anglo Saxon economic system that revolved around wool exports wasn’t there, in the post Roman period?

              And didn’t they have slaves working in the wool industry?

            • i made it clear in my first comment of this thread, that i was talking about slavery as an economic force in itself.

              slaves on sugar plantations formed the essential link in the iron-weapons sent fro UK to Africa—which were used to capture slaves who were shipped to the Americas—who produced sugar products to ship back to UK.

              It was a trade triangle that used slaves as it prime energy force, (10 million of them), that depended on an ever increasing rate of production, to keep it functioning.

              Slave labour had been used for millenia, but never as a prime force on this scale

              As is made clear on another comment on this thread, slaves often became a status symbol. I t is questionable whether the output of the slave brought much in the way of actual material benefit it that context.

              The slave must be bought–housed–fed-clothed, and above all guarded. For obvious reasons.

              A paid employee would probably return more (willing) work, didn’t have to be bought or guarded, and wouldn’t usually be plotting to kill you.

              Large scale slavery became viable on sugar plantations because of the colossal energy return on the cane itself (via sunshine)
              They were thus an economic force.

          • Ed says:

            The Viking settlers of Iceland kidnapped women from Ireland to be wives. A special class of slave.

            • Withnail says:

              The Bronze Age Myceneans kidnapped women from Asia Minor to work in the military strategic industry of flax (used to make sails).

            • Fred says:

              I kidnapped a girl at Uni to be my wife 40 odd years ago. She’s a special class of slave too.

    • Tim Groves says:

      This is one more reason why it is essential for people to continue to have access to sufficient amounts of affordable energy.

      Otherwise, Greta will have to go back to living in this kind of squalor.


  14. Gail puts a lot of emphasis on wages.

    I recently saw a documentary on some Foxconn employees, who make IPhones for Apple (Foxconn is Apple’s best known contractor).

    Their factory is in Central China; there are NO separate living quarters for the employees, who have to find a spot somewhere in the factory, the warehouse, or any spot they could find. Housing cost – zero. Commuting cost- zero.

    When the zero-covid policy shook China, the workers were confined to where they had been staying when the warnings fell; no one moves from there, even if it might be a bathroom or a public dump, until the authorities allow it.

    Some of them decided to leave. There was no transportation cost paid by the company; they walked back to the bus station which would take them to their homes, to return to rural poverty.


    You might call it cruel, but that keeps the personnel cost to very minimum. No welfare, no workers comp and no need to bus them for hours. 24/7 surveillance camera to make sure the employees don’t damage the machines.

    Since these employees left on their own accord, they will not be allowed back and there will be no shortage of desperate people who will be willing to accept such conditions.

    The standard rate for laborers in the old days was “Three hots and a cot”. That will be the norm. Companies will be able to pay the employees very little, just like Russia 1992-around 1999 when just having an employer to be attached was enough and they were paid when the employers felt like.

    • When I visited some factories in Mumbai, India a few years ago, I was told that many of the workers slept on the factory floor. I was told that these men had families elsewhere in India. They sent some of their earnings home to help the rest of the family.

      These workers did not have any toilet facilities. They used a nearby field, as necessary.

      They didn’t have protective garments, either, to prevent injury by machines.

      • Xabier says:

        British capitalists in the 19th c discussed this, and decided that it was better to exploit Indians, who could live more or less naked, than the Chinese skilled workers, who had much higher expectations and needs: good clothes, nice little houses,better food, etc. This was the artisan class, not the rural labourers.

        Of course, in Britain they crushed the artisans ruthlessly and turned them into factory slaves: they had similarly lived at a good standard, with reasonable hours of work and little houses with gardens.

  15. Agamemnon says:

    How is peak oil going to play out? A gradual decline or a Seneca cliff that analysts are worried about? And how’s the resulting economic collapse going to play out? The number 1 worry is probably food (even this pandemic caused extra food acquisition). So how much energy is used for food? 2% whoa.
    Yep there’s transportation etc…
    It seems we have time especially considering how much we waste everything including energy. An electric scooter was beating me in my 2 ton car today.
    Yes BAU not possible but Maybe it skews are thinking more than it should?

    But yes yes wwwars there was 2 BIL so there is that.

    • Agamemnon says:

      Our thinking///covid brain damage

    • davidinamonthorayearoradecade says:

      nobody knows.

      but as energy per capita is already declining, the system is adjusting itself by casting out many “capita” from living in bAU:

      Yemen, Lebanon, Sri Lanka etc.

      I bet in those places it feels like a Seneca cliff.

      elsewhere it probably feels like a gradual decline: over 10% inflation in the EU and lower energy supplies as winter approaches.

      nearly economic contagion in the UK when bonds/pensions were on the cliff edge, and Credit Suisse at the edge of insolvency.


      then CBs created a bunch of digital money out of thin air and the crises were mitigated.

      it’s going to get even wilder as the Long Endgame plays out.

    • The chart shows that direct energy use by the agricultural sector is not very high. But there are no doubt other things. I doubt that this chart includes energy used to produce the hybrid seeds the farmer uses. I doubt it includes all of the energy that goes into making the many vehicles the farmer uses.

      I wonder if this chart includes energy after the food leaves the farm. The food needs to be transported, often in refrigerated vehicles. It needs to be processed and packaged. Sometimes food is shipped internationally.

      There is also the energy used in the stores selling the food, and by the workers involved at every stage of the process. These workers need vehicles to drive to the stores. Of course, roads need to be built for all of these vehicles to drive on.

      The overall amount of energy used to maintain the food system is higher than 2%, I am quite certain.

    • seneca cliff

      because everyone will be fighting over what’s left

      which is happening right now

      • RationalLuddite says:

        I agree Norman.

        I always liked the ballistic curve nature of the Net Energy Hubbert Curve, combined with the Land Export Model …

        … but then throw in your (i think) concept of “Wars of Denial” destroying most of the remaining energy infrastructure . This alone leads to a much nastier collapse than Greer’s stepped Catabolc Collapse, without even considering how short lived his proposed “Age of Salvage” will likely be, nor the thermodynamics of the triple energy cliff (wood, coal, Oil-Gas).

        The remorseless mathematics of the descent are already hard-wired in.

    • Cromagnon says:

      We are in a Seneca Cliff event right now!

  16. Mount Everest was first scaled by George Mallory and Andrew Irvine on 1922. However they did not make it back.

    Edmund Hillary later scaled it on 1953. However, after two world wars, even his will got weakened and he gave equal treatment to the sherpa Tenzing Norgay, who would NEVER have climbed the mountain on his own accord.

    Robert Peary was hailed as a hero when he scaled North Pole, but because he refused to give credit to his black sidekick Matthew Henson, even Peary’s achievement of scaling North Pole has been nullified.

    Now, the achievement of Mallory and Irvine is nullified even though they gave their lives to scale the mountain, because if they are recognized, Tenzing’s name will be erased from history books. A huge , blatant case of historical revisionism.

    Hillary was wrong giving an Asian the credit for scaling the mountain. The Nepalese had thousands of years to climb it but never bothered. Now the Sherpas act as if they own the HImalayas, just another territory lost to the West by the uppity natives who never really ruled it but were given it and now acting as if they owned it at first place.

    • davidinamonthorayearoradecade says:

      Mallory and Irvine were mere meters from the summit when they engaged in a slow motion struggle to be the first to stand “on the top of the world”.

      They plunged to their deaths, as their last words echoed around:

      “Moreon, you’re going to get us killed.”

      • We will never know who got there first, but it is not Tenzing Norgay.

        No Asians ever accomplished anything of permanence. Never/

        • Great Wall of China

          Amazing use of coal in China

          Very orderly society

          • Actually the surviving sections were rebuilt during the 1970s to show to the tourists.

            The original wall built by the First Emperor of China disappeared a long, long time. The second wall was built by the Ming Dynasty around 16th century, but as the Manchus conquered China on 1644, they had no need for the wall and it disappeared.

            Only during 1980s, after an American tourist who scaled the entire surviving sections of the wall reported that the walls were seriously damaged, the Chinese govt remodeled it so we can say that the Great Wall of China as we know dates from 1970s /80s.

        • Herbie Ficklestein. says:

          No Asians ever accomplished anything of permanence. Never/

          Not we here in the West care to know about!

          Kulm… I get it…and probably others here too.
          We, superior race, have done superb effort in turning the planet into cash…as our Norm likes to chant.
          Wouldn’t brag about it 😜

      • Tim Groves says:

        Nodaloda people know this, but the peak of Mt. Everest is not the farthest place from the center of the Earth. That honor goes to the peak of Mt. Chimborazo, an inactive volcano in Ecuador.

        Everest is the highest mountain above mean sea level, but due to the planet being an oblate spheroid that bulges around the equator Chimborazo is the highest above the geometric center of the Earth, while Mauna Kea is the highest mountain above its own base.

        Who climbed these mountains and how they are named and the stories told about the people doing the climbing and the naming are not “anything of permanence”—to borrow a phrase. All this trivia will disappear like tears in rain far far faster than the said mountains will be eroded down to sand and pebbles.

        • davidinamonthorayearoradecade says:

          so who climbed those first?

          Eddie Hillary never revealed if it was him or Tenzing Norgay who reached the summit first.

          we don’t seem to care, though Kthestatusquo does.

    • Withnail says:

      Hillary was wrong giving an Asian the credit for scaling the mountain. The Nepalese had thousands of years to climb it but never bothered.

      I’m sure they had better things to do than climb to the top of mountains just to say they had done it.

      • sciouscience says:

        Maybe it is just the phrasing but I do not believe that anyone ever (until social media) did anything first just to talk about it.

  17. Mirror on the wall says:

    o nce I was a man and I was love

    • Excess deaths is a cumulative number. This makes the chart hard to interpret. In the pre-vaccine period, excess deaths hit a peak of 60,000, and dropped back to something like 50,000 by the end of the “blue” period, which was December 2020. The first post-vaccine availability season, excess deaths rose to a total of about 110,000 (implying an addition of 60,000 excess deaths) and then dropped back to about 90,000 cumulative excess deaths. In the next round, excess deaths rose to close to 120,000 (implying an addition of 30,000, relative to the 90,000), but then dropped back down to something like 110,000.

      There are lots of things going on:

      1. The blue pre-vaccine period is shorter than the red period. If the same percentage of excess deaths had been taking place, we would expect the chart to look a lot more like a diagonal line.

      2. The virus is becoming milder in its impact, as we move into the red period.

      3. The vaccine probably having some effect: some good (milder symptoms for some), some bad (adverse reactions to the vaccine itself).

      4. Treatments are becoming better (or less awful).

      5. The most vulnerable patients were disproportionately killed off in the first round of the illness.

      If we look carefully at the chart, we see that there are fewer excess deaths taking place in the later (red) period than in the blue period, especially after about May 2021. But this is quite likely from the effect of the illness becoming milder, not the effect of the vaccine.

      The closest I could get from OurWorldinData.org is this chart, showing England and Wales:


      For some reason, this comparison provides information for each of the age groups separately, but not in total. You can see the effect, however. The size of the excess death humps starts falling lower, as time progresses. This is more or less what Joe Smalley’s chart is showing, but on a cumulative basis it is harder to understand this.

      In order for excess deaths to reduce, there needs to be significant periods below the expected level of deaths. This has not been happening to any significant extent, even when there are no covid cases around.

      I prefer using non-cumulative numbers in charts. The charts are a whole lot easier to interpret.

  18. Mirror on the wall says:

    Anyway, so…. everyone will face reality when the Irish step up.
    We are all Irish these days.

    Gail is my sister, and everyone is my brother.

    • If the Irish like fighting, I suppose that you are right in saying we are all Irish today. At least the music is good.

      • Mirror on the wall says:

        That is what the British and the Irish States do not realise – we are going to settle it when the time comes, just like they have done unto us, violence begets violence b /.c Jesus had his own thing to say…

        Judgment must come…

        • The Unionists would rather throw all Irish to the sea.

          The Irish and the Unionists can’t exist together – one of them has to go, for ever.

        • davidinamonthorayearoradecade says:

          McCartney says Give Ireland Back to the Irish:

        • Tim Groves says:

          Here’s one more excuse for you if you want get some revenge on the English. They made an entire folk tradition out of ridiculing the Irish.

          • Xabier says:

            And Taffy the Welshman too……

            Taffy woz a Welshman,
            Taffy woz a thief,
            Taffy came to our ‘ouse and stole a side of beef!’

            That’s why you, once upon a time, could get a reward for bringing a Welshmans head to the Sheriff…..

        • Tim Groves says:

          This Irish song about life, love and economics has one of my favorite all-time riffs.

        • Tim Groves says:

          And to complete your Saturday night boozing entertainment, here’s an entire pub full of Irish rovers.

  19. I don’t live in Mitteleuropa. It is finished anyways when Thatcher and Mitterand forbid Germany to expand further to the east and Kohl took the bait. It won’t rise again.

    Europe, in my opinion, is done. To be divided by Africa and Asia. The rich and famous will flee to their homes elsewhere in the world, to be pampered and their progeny married into the local elites and disappear.

    The Neocons, who hated USSR and Russia, chose the wrong enemy. The real enemies against civilization were China, Korea and India. If China, Korea and India had been eliminated , the rest of third world would have fallen like dominoes.

    Russia’ s pop is old. It won’t produce anything useful. The whole standard of the world will fall to the the level of China, Korea and India based upon current trends.

    • MM says:

      If someone says, China will soon be the world’s “leading” economy, I switch channels.

      • Maybe parts of China and some other countries can continue for a while longer.

      • Withnail says:

        If someone says, China will soon be the world’s “leading” economy, I switch channels.

        There just isn’t enough energy for China to continue growing. Already it’s on a massive scale that it’s having trouble maintaining.

      • JesseJames says:

        If you don’t count all the financialization transactions included in the US GDP, China might be close to being the leading economy

        • MM says:

          My, bad:
          I thought the economy was meant to produce “value”?

          I think I need to look look into a newer version of “Das Kapital” maybe.

    • Tim Groves says:

      India: A Wounded Civilization was the title of the second book in V. S. Naipaul’s “India” trilogy. And what a wonderful title, summing up the whole idea of an ancient civilization that has lost much of its vigor, its structural cohesion and even its sense of itself, but which still continues to hobble along. Almost like a grand old tree that has been battered for centuries by the elements, struck by lightning, and been damaged insects and fungi.

      And isn’t every nation and society with the pretension to think of itself a civilization a lot like India now? Aren’t they all wounded, battered, bent out of shape, and no longer fit for purpose? They all look like they are done to me, and it looks like a huge great fork is being stuck into their backsides as we watch, in order to turn them over and roast them a bit more on the other side.

      • Xabier says:

        I restored the 200 yr old blackthorn growing in my garden by giving it the most tremendously savage pruning.

        It’s now growing as if it felt like it was 17 again.

        Supporting ancient, half-alive, branches was doing it no good at all, but it obviously has good roots still.

        We cannot say the same for our industrial economies.

        Next year I hope for some sloes for my gin from that tree. I hope it will prove grateful for my services.

        • Tim Groves says:

          It will be interesting to see how that goes. If not next year, maybe the year after.

          Sometimes you have to be brutal to be kind! 🙂

          • Xabier says:

            I hope to live to see it, Tim! As you say it may take a few years to produce again, but the new growth is strong. I shall do my best to avoid being turned into Soylent Green until then.

            Cutting up some old fallen blackthorn in the woods recently, I realised just why the Irish once made their famous walking sticks from that wood, it’s as hard as steel!

            Many a skull must have been cracked after many drink….

  20. Dennis L. says:

    Thinking of a “Green God”

    The earth has an iron core which generates a magnetic field which deflects various radiation and makes life possible.

    God needs some iron, so he causes a star to go super nova and spit out iron, lots and lots of iron even though only a small part is required.

    A Green God points out this waste and associated pollution, God yawns states it is only a small bit of pollution and besides He only has seven days.

    Is it only I who is seeing a number of parallels in current “scientific” thought with the concept of “God.” The fabric of the universe is a current meme, at OFW it is referred to as self organizing, a fancy way of saying it is axiomatic, it just is.

    Karpthy has some interesting thoughts on memes; they are in our brains, evolution sorts out those that work and those which do not. Not good to hang on to a meme which does not work.

    Dennis L.

    • Another of Elon Musk’s ex clowns. Karpathy left Musk’s company in July 2022. Guess Elon was not what Karpathy thought as it was.

      Karpathy made a whooping $5 million from his 5 years employment under Musk. At least Karpathy was somewhat famous and will augment his net worth by making speeches and consulting work. He was from Slovakia, without any connection in USA, so he took the job while trading exotic derivatives in some hedge fund would have netted him about 10 times as much at least.

      • I have to add that going on his way basically means Karpathy’s contribution to civilization is over. He will spend the rest of his life promoting himself and his crazy ideas as a mini-Musk, get investments to blow it in some fancy mansion, enjoying the life of a celebrity without adding anything more to the progress of civilization.

        • Dennis L. says:

          At one time, in biology I was fortunate to associate with what some would think of the deep thinkers, one of whom won a Nobel while I was there. Don’t know if the colloquium in biology/molecular biology are still running.

          While only a lowly undergraduate I never heard money mentioned, there was an intense desire to learn, publish and yes, win the next prize(although none dared mentioned that goal.) Karpathy seems similar in bent, he mentioned not liking administration that much.

          Life seems to have its own path, we get to choose various paths, but the destinations are not really known to us at the beginning.

          Dennis L.

          • Must be half a century ago when few people worried about rent, health insurance costs, child care, etc.


            In today’s world, it is rather easy to simulate the future career path of someone. There will always be the black swan option of abandoning it all and entering in some ashram. But in most cases, the career paths would be quite obvious to trained eyes

          • houtskool says:

            It is the beginning nor the end
            Of the path we should enjoy
            Because in between
            It is uncertain of the kind
            For those who suffer the trend
            Would be left behind

    • drb753 says:

      The universe is to some extent self organizing too. Galactic clouds collapse yielding, simple, identifiable structures (points of distant light called stars). Giant galactic could collapsed in the past yielding swirling and easily recognizable structures (galaxies). Near stars there are plentiful smaller structures (planets), mostly unsuitable for life, but with some rich in metal elements becoming suitable for life after sufficient comet early bombardment. Needs a Moon, a Jupiter, sufficient iron, the aforementioned water, not present early on, sufficient atmosphere, orbiting a G star in the habitable zone.

    • Lots of things happen that are more than coincidences. Without them, this planet would not be livable by humans.

      The self-organizing system seems to pick out things that work, even if we do not judge the motives of those who are behind them to be proper. Elon Musk and his silliness and Bill Gates may have places in how things work out. Things will be sorted out in the long run.

  21. banned says:

    It would seem Kow has decided to end his participation on this forum. Best wishes! May many bushels of oats of the highest quality and e-bikes of the highest technology remain in your future!

    • davidinamonthorayearoradecade says:

      Baby Doomer went away 5 years ago. I think the Doom just wasn’t showing up like he thought it would.

      ChromeMags 2 years ago, though he was so looking forward to the arriving vaccines, I wish he would return and report the “results”.

      ITEOTWAWKI was a trip, Canadian?

      K urt, again no Doom showing up, so why stay?

      Kow was hugely entertaining, and Laplanders are now underrepresented here at OFW.

      • Kow has left and come back before. So he may be back again. Commenters come and go. In a way, that is good, because new commenters bring new ideas.

      • I liked B9K9. He now shows up at Moon of Alabama.

      • Xabier says:

        Perhaps K has met his long-imagined alien babe at last. Been secretly conscripted to fight Russia as a ‘volunteer’ in a high-mobility bicycle battalion. Or died, tragically, of a surfeit of oats……

      • DB says:

        Worldofhanumanotg was another very insightful commenter for many years. I have often wondered what he’d think of the last couple of years’ events.

      • Kowalainen says:

        Fear not dear fellow rapacious primates, Tryhards and MOARons.

        Kow’s busy simulating (all the rage these days, eh?) “work” and occasionally lurk OFW for the shits and giggles.

        Yeah, I think A. Karpathy did some outrageous blunders and doesn’t know shit from shinola in software engineering.

        One cannot appreciate life without a healthy dose dystopia circulating the mush in between the myopic eyes and deaf ears. That’s some negative optimism for you suckers.


  22. ivanislav says:

    Maybe the government is trying to play up UFOs to maintain unity in spite of declining energy.

    Reagan talking at the UN about how the world would unite if an alien threat existed:

    One of many recent US DOD announcements about UFOs:

    • banned says:

      What was that movie? The aliens decided to change the humans genes and keep them as pets rather than eradicate them. They were unsuitable as pets without modification.

    • NomadicBeer says:

      This was something that I mentioned before. As the fear of coflu subsides, the govts will try a million other things to push the panic button. How else can they control people if not through fear.

      Climate change seems to have stopped working, aliens were always ridiculous so the main focus now is Ukr and nuclear war (it worked for a decade in the 50s so why not?)

      Gail, can we have a betting pool on what will be the next big thing?

      • Xabier says:

        Omicron really back-fired, we were meant to be terrified by its super-infectiousness.

        Now whenever anyone has Covid’, no one looks even a little worried for them.

        Hence the bi-valent booster flop. Cry ‘wolf!’ too often……

        I desperately want them to try Alien Reveal, it would be so amusing!

        • Fast Eddy says:

          I was having a chat with a fat old British bag earlier — mentioned I work in HK and that I won’t go there due to mask requirements indoor and outdoor including when at the beach, hiking, everywhere.

          She mentioned no masks required in UK – she almost never wears unless in crowded place.

          Thinking she might not be a Total MORE-ON … I suggest that with HK it should be up to the individual – if they believe the mask protects from covid then wear the mask …

          She says – but the mask prevents you from passing covid to the other people…

          To which I respond but they have a mask so they are protected…

          The glazed look of a zombie came over her… she’s had all 6 shots no doubt…

          I was hoping she’d drop dead in front of me …

          I suspect there are far more zombies taking the latest booster than we are told

          Remember – there is no cure for stooopidity … it’s not as if they f789ing fools suddenly got smart and decided to stop injecting.

      • Fast Eddy says:

        Word of the Year:


    • Kowalainen says:

      It’s all fun and silly games until I’m flying in an UFO with a hottie alien broad (or sweet rear end AGI) piloting the vehicle.

      Until then it’s all smoke and mirrors.

  23. banned says:

    I was listening to a NPR “interview” radio show on inflation yesterday. I realized sometime ago that that NPR interviews are scripted. The questions are known before hand and the questions and answers work in concert not as a inquiry into a subject but to define it. Propaganda at its finest.

    The pieces premise this time was that Jerome Powells interest rate hikes are inappropriate and hurting the common people. The piece stated that the interest rate hikes may bring us into recession (true). The piece stated that inflation was caused by factors outside of interest rates (true). Basically it was a huge infomercial for returning to ZIRP and blue clown team social spending.

    There was no mention of government debts role in inflation AT ALL. This to me is a omission that defines the piece as propaganda, In all of our historical examples of hyperinflation goverment debt was a huge factor if not a direct causal. How can a “expert” have a show talking about inflation and not even mention government debt?

    One of the things I think is a problem is a lack of understanding about treasury bonds and how the government creates money to spend. Because the things we need to live come from money and we trade our labor for it fundamentally I think our emotions keep us from a understanding. There are things about the process that are contradictory.

    Why can the federal reserve just declare a interest rate for interest for instance? Since the fed can arbitrarily set a interest rate that interest rate is not determined by price discovery as our ideas about treasuries might believe. My idea about treasuries is that the interest rate is what incentivized the purchase of treasuries. Someone wanted the money to “grow” is what I was taught. But interest rates on treasuries have been below inflation for a long long time. Buying a treasury guarantees that the “money” shrinks not grows.

    The next logical question is why has their never been a failed treasury bond auction. My idea was if treasuries are not desirable to buyers at 3% they might have to go to 6% in order to sell. We already know this is incorrect because the interest rate is set arbitrarily by the fed. So if price discovery does not determine why every single bit of debt the government offers is always bought what does? The answer is that the fed gives the treasury bonds a status “prime collateral” that allows the treasuries to be a key to further borrowing with large margin. Effectively the treasury purchase are the equivalent of a credit card service fee. Since the amount of the treasuries are in the trillions and leverage up to 40x is granted on their purchase the money creation from this mechanism is astronomical.

    This astronomical money creation is probably the single largest causal in inflation IMO. It seems to me that no “expert” could possibly ignore it in any informed discussion of inflation. It seems to me the process of how the money the government spends comes into being is shrouded in mystery on purpose. Our emotional attachment to money as it provides what we need to live also stands in the way of understanding.

    USA debt to GDP is at 125%. Historically anything above 100% is considered insolvent but I think the situation is much much worse. USA GDP comes largely from financial transactions. Every loan created by a bank counts toward GDP. If the goverment reduces debt the leveraged money creation the debt creates is also reduced. Government spending IS the GDP! DEBT/GDP is a metric designed to downplay the huge amounts of debt. 125% doesn’t seem so bad compared to 31000000000000. But since GDP is created by debt debt to GDP is largely a sham metric.

    Thus I think the NPR show is largely deceptive propaganda designed to direct the ire of the people against the fed when the fed is only a cog in the mechanism of government spending. Jerome Powell gets put in the “elite” box. If people dont like hyper inflation they cant have unlimited money creation. This is simple and easily understandable truth but the premise of the “expert” interview on NPR was the exact opposite. IMO it ignored the principle cause of inflation while at the same time not exploring why exactly it is that the fed can arbitrarily set interest rates. This idea that the government can spend astronomical sums with the fed a intrinsic part of the mechanism to do so but the fed is a “bad guy” raising interest rates arbitrarily is deception. The fed is government spending. The fed at this point exists only for government spending. To make a argument against the fed while pretending government spending comes from “taxes” not fed offered incentivesis a deception of utmost magnitude. This argument of course includes that the government spending on military and social programs is for the peoples benefit. This is easy to believe is you receive benefit from social programs or are employed by a DOD contractor. Our emotional basis about living standards and earning works in concert with the propaganda to allow denial of the simple truths in this matter. The propaganda is effective. If you attempt to discuss goverment spending and debt as the root of many of our problems it is seen as a attack on standard of living. Since the propaganda tells us it is the “elite” the “fat cats” or the “lazy” that is the problem the spending and debt can not be discussed without conflict. Immediately one is placed in either a “elite” or “lazy” box and that box is subject to bad things. Luckily it doesnt matter. We are in a debt trap. The way out is also deeply impressed into our consciousness. War. That is far from all we are but it is part of what we are. As we proceed down this path seemingly unable to effect any change upon outcome the part of us that is war as a solution grows and the other parts shrink. The primary imaginary difference between red clown team and blue clown team is the illusion that the how where and why of the spending matters. That the unlimited spending itself creates a debt trap whose solution is war is hidden by the propaganda of both clown teams. No one seems willing to address the fundamental issues that involve our standard of living. We need money to survive. No one is acting on principles other than seeing their interests in terms of how the money creation effects their standard of living and that pursuit is seen as righteous. I dont think its the truth I think we could have another way but the people are unskilled in determining their future in any way other than trying to compete for a share of the money creation and war solution.

    • Dennis L. says:


      I scanned your post, so if I missed something, please forgive.

      Most banking seems to be about liquidity, not solvency. The world is insolvent, not enough stuff as collateral for “money.” Liquidity is about moving “money” around just in time to cover someone else’s need for liquidity, hence repos and reverse repos which are overnight loans not against collateral “stuff” but collateral “money.”

      Problem is velocity, with exponential growth it would be possible to exceed the speed of light(well electrons) and that is of course impossible.

      Dennis L.

      • banned says:

        I afraid I dont understand the relevance of your post in regard to mine. Im rather long winded let me be concise. These are my arguments

        The spending by the USA government is based on mandating USA treasuries are owned by financial institutions to support that spending.The “ownership” of USA treasury bonds is the prerequisite to becoming a financial institution. In return they get to create much much more money than the “value” of the debt/loan/bond/spending.

        The USA public has little understanding of this.

        Unlimited creation of Fiat money has historically always led to hyperinflation then war.

        We are in the exact position of countries prior. If we print more hyperinflation accelerates. If we print less the “economy” collapses.

        What I didnt specifically say is that resource depletion also creates inflation. That is far from the sole cause of the inflation we are witnessing IMO. I see circumstance accelerating inflation for several reasons.

        Agree? Disagree?

        I see that as the facts. Applying “economic” terms doesnt change the facts IMO. Yes liquidity is a issue as is the repo. I see those as completely different subjects. How does repo and liquidity apply to the arguments I have presented? Those are tidy technical terms they denote that we are in a process that is understood and under control. IMO their meaning and context is not relavent to the arguments I have presented. Perhaps i dont understand? In the end money gets exchanged for goods in the physical world and that is very inconvenient for tidy technical economic boxes.

        Agree? Disagree?

        If a dog is chewing your arm off his pedigree is unimportant.

        • reante says:

          As I said last week the energy deflation is the cause of the higher transitory deflation (transiting into deflation). M2/3 money has gone up for three years as energy has gone down, and has been on an undulating plateau this year as energy continues to tank. That’s the whole reason. There are no other variables to account for it.

          US government debt isn’t the problem. If nobody buys US bonds, nobody buys oil. The globalist quid pro quo is you borrow dollars to buy oil in dollars and park those dollars in treasuries and then, like you said, leverage those treasuries to create credit in foreign currencies, and those currencies can be converted to dollars as necessary to buy more oil.

          Historical hyperinflations were in non-reserve currencies. The dollar is hisory’s only reserve currency. All hyperinflations prior to the dollar reserve hyperinflated against declining gold holdings.

          • reante says:

            Higher transitory INflation

          • banned says:

            I see it different. A government is of course desirable. To provide for common defense. To create law and order. To have some social services.

            The extent it can do that depends on the peoples ability to pay taxes from a natural economy and productivity. When a government creates debt not as something to pay back but as a source of prosperity it changes things. Now the goverment becomes the source of prosperity not a natural economy. The efforts of the people become focused around using government as a source of prosperity and the natural economy gets abandoned. A direct effect of this is what we see in the corporate environment. Chasing productivity simply can not compete with chasing the created money so productivity is disassembled and things like stock buy backs using borrowed money are pursued. This leads to the completely unbalanced situation we have now where the economy consists almost in its entirety of debt being created. If the Government was to stop creating debt out of thin air there would be no economy. My belief is a healthy government debts should never exceed 25% of GDP.

            What inflation is is the real world pushing back eventually. Yes its energy and resources. The only thing humans can really add of value is productivity. Productivity is the relationship humans have to resources. Productivity is the relationship that creates value in a currency. If you remove productivity you remove value and that is reflected in the thing we call hyper inflation.

            Raising interest rates to bring down inflation as a concept is the dog wagging the tail. If printing infinite money didnt devalue the currency Jerome could just leave them at zero. If it was soley resource depletion causing inflation then Jerome could leave them at zero.
            What raising interest rates is is a desperate attempt to make the government debt return to some sort of value other than the imaginary perpetual motion machine of value created by designating them “prime collateral”. That is ending. If it wasnt ending then they wouldnt have to raise interest rates. That ending is what we know as hyperinflation. It cant happen if the value of a currency is attached to the physical world via productivity. This and government debts relationship to war was well understood after WW2 hence Bretton woods. Now Nixon didnt think WW3 would happen because he violated Bretton woods. This is a gradual but accelerating process. Now we are here again.

            Raising interest rates demonstrates just how precarious the situation is. Its like a lover coming back after 11 years after running off with the mail man and wanting back in the relationship. It doesnt work. The economy runs off fiat now. Its real links to the physical world are dissembled. To try to say the mirage of raising interest rates to where they might be if the economy was still attached to the real world via productivity is the same thing as that productivity is pathetic and very desperate. Exactly why gold wont work as a solution. These are just the tools of a productive economy not the productive economy itself. We have a fiat economy now just flaunting the trappings of a productive economy wont work and we can not survive in the time it would take to return to a productive economy. MAGA was never a real possibility it was a fantasy. Fiat economies always collapse and the potential energy contained in its sole connection to the physical world- military-is always consumed in war when it happens. Why? Because its all thats left. The world is a nail if all you have is a hammer.

            • reante says:

              I realize that you are pro-government. I would classify you as a national socialist: for responsible public banking and traditionally conservative values. I don’t believe in human subjection. Humans and all other beings are intrinsically sovereign under natural law.

              “If printing infinite money didnt devalue the currency Jerome could just leave them at zero. If it was soley resource depletion causing inflation then Jerome could leave them at zero.
              What raising interest rates is is a desperate attempt to make the government debt return to some sort of value other than the imaginary perpetual motion machine of value created by designating them “prime collateral”. That is ending. If it wasnt ending then they wouldnt have to raise interest rates. That ending is what we know as hyperinflation. It cant happen if the value of a currency is attached to the physical world via productivity.”

              They didn’t print infinite money. They lent into existence (it’s still on the balance sheet) just enough to continue Extend and Pretend until the pretending ran out real estate. They procrastinated because that epic procrastination was the path of least resistance and also the path to greatest wealth-stripping. But now we’ve reached necessity.

              Unless I’m mistaken, you’re complaining about the extend and pretend cheap money ZIRP policies and multi-trillion dollar bailouts during energy deflation that caused inflation and you’re also complaining about current Fed interest rate policies whose aims are to make money more expensive (by making borrowing more expensive) so that inflation comes down; my response to that is that you can’t have it both ways! 🙂 There’s a perfectly clear logic to global economic history since peak conventional oil caused the GFC: extend and pretend with ZIRP and quantitative easings until the pretending runs out of real estate (global peak total liquids), and then destroy industrial demand via manufactured crises while maintaining finance cornucopia (the blow-off top) such that the billionaires of the world (to say nothing of the trillionaires) increase their net worth by half in just a few years, then at long last pop the everything bubble (make transitory the early, runaway inflation) by tightening.

              They are popping the bubble out of necessity. If they don’t they lose control of inflationary forces. If they do pop the bubble they maintain control with deflationary monetary policy, and maintain control of their savings. Elites are net savers, not debtors. Savings (hoarding) is what makes a man rich. It’s not in their interest to let the dollar hyperinflated. They would lose all of their financial wealth. Deflation allows them to put their financial wealth to work one last time, in an epic orgy that allows them to buy shit up for pennies on the dollar. They need to do this in the next two years before Tulsi is elected and Ends the Fed, before pretty much everything gets nationalized or heavily regulated.

              They’re not raising rates in order to restore credibility to Treasuries. There’s going to be a monster flight into treasuries here this winter and spring, because it the global safe haven.

              And let’s not forget the structural financial reason for the inflation right now: the dollar value is inversely pegged to the barrel price. The higher the barrel price the less the dollar is worth. There’s your inflation right there
              – energy decline/deflation making energy more expensive making the dollar worth less. Let’s not overcomplicate this nor politicize it. The problem with believing in government is that it makes one politicize everything from one’s ‘chosen’ politics.

              The idea that a government will go into debt til it hits 25pc of GDP and then happily stop taking on debt, and then, tralalalala, happily run current account surpluses to pay down its debt so that it can once again get back to 25pc is pure fantasy. Civilization is involuntary. It’s a grand Shadowplay. Debt dynamics are involuntary, because year-on-year structural surpluses must be had or instability reigns, such as is the case with this terminal instability that we’re in the early stages of.

            • MM says:

              From what I see inflation and deflation is just a game to keep you distracted.
              As banned says, the reality of prosperity is hoarding.
              It does not matter what the value of a currency is, if you own all the assets that you can use them to produce without any money as in slave farming.
              I think to know what is going on you need to look for where you can buy what on the cheap and who buys that.

              For example when BASF will leave Ludwigshafen, the economy in the entire region will collapse. If you have money and people seek to sell soon as in selling squeeze, you can make a lot of good bargains.
              Then you bring in some slave workers and use the old factories for whatever is in demand.

              We do not need a money, we need a record of property ownership and blockchain is being developed in this direction wit breath taking speed. It is already happening in third world countries.
              We need proof of ownership and some sort of an army to enforce that.
              (banned: yes, kinda national socialism : state guarantees property rights, everything else for the plantation owners).

              That is not dependent on any money, it is dependent on:
              You play along and we feed you, otherwise go die.

              We had that implemented with the vaxx: you go along or you deserve death. So the reeducation strategy was a full success already.
              This will all play out nicely.

            • MM says:

              not @banned, but @reante, sorry.

            • banned says:

              “I realize that you are pro-government. I would classify you as a national socialist: for responsible public banking and traditionally conservative values. I don’t believe in human subjection. Humans and all other beings are intrinsically sovereign under natural law.”

              I have lived in countries where there is little law and order. It creates suffering. Family and gang feuds go on for generations. On the other hand their are grave problems with our criminal justice system. Just because anarchy is not a good place to live doesn’t justify the excesses of a prison state. A honest government is a association that is created for the common good. It is run by the people for the people. It is a service created by the people. A honest government never loses track of that and that certainly includes where it receives its funding. How can a country be for and by the people if it creates its own funding and that funding is limitless? How many times do we hear about sins to the “taxpayers”? Their are no taxpayers. What funds government is debt. If government reduced spending the economy would cease because it revolves around debt now not productivity. Infinite debt is infinite power. No man or institution should hold infinite power. People have conflict. The system by which that conflict is tempered and we live in peace is known as justice.

              I consider myself a naturalist. I believe it is natural for tribes and civilizations to own the technology they create and their productivity. Its far from a mean or authoritarian theme. It means the people own their own prosperity it is in their hands. Arguments that that is “national socialism” are IMO borne from propaganda. Everything must be owned by the corporation or its “national socialism”. You must be a slave or you are a “national socialist”. Express a certain idea you are a “national socialist”.

              While we are on the topic we might consider the strong role fiat creation played in the creation of our textbook example of national socialism and WWII. One might come to the understanding that fiat creation is bound to and associated with world war. War in lands other than your own is IMO the defining characteristic of national socialism. My posts have been clear I do not condone war I in fact condemn it. It is my primary issue in regards to government. If you are a leader of any flavor who allowed participation in these endless wars you do not have my consent. Now realize that if a nation has the ability to create prosperity and abundance through natural means wars in lands other than there own are not necessary. If the people own their own technology resources and technology war is not necessary. Thus the sham of calling the peoples self evident right to benefit from the gifts of their land “national socialism” becomes evident as the primary characteristic of national socialism is war.

              Yes lands and peoples require resources be allocated to common defense. What holds this allocation in check from abuse is that these resources are limited by the productivity of the land. Infinite debt is the only thing that allows war on a large scale.

              Infinite debt is not natural. Creating prosperity out of fiat always fails. No creature or organism gets to break from its relationship to the planet. Prosperity exists it is finite. Abundance exists it is finite. Debt that is not payed is theft. Infinite growth is unnatural and infinite debt is a direct expression in the idea that infinite growth is “OK”.

            • reante says:

              Thanks banned. I use ‘national socialism’ very broadly. Most broadly we can call it the Third Way implicitly anti- industrial politics that lies outside of the two industrial behemoths in International Finance Capitalism and International Marxism. National Socialism is the agrarian-hearted decentralized republican umbrella politics spanning Left and Right. The core of NS revolves around Strasserism and encompasses thinkers like Evola, Hayek, and even Proudhon.

              Here’s an excellent very long essay that surveys the NS terrain in its heyday. Not required reading to be sure but if you’re interested then you might start halfway down, where it gets into the structural ideas, maybe somehere starting at about this quote:

              Now turning to the Strassers’ primary writings, we see that the feudal character of Strasserite “socialism” is clear and unmistakable. Otto Strasser reveals it explicitly when he writes that “…capitalism is ideologically linked with liberalism, prior to the dominion of which there was an entirely different economic system ideologically akin to socialism, though of course differing from socialism in form.”29

              The watchword, and main task, of the supposedly socialist and pro-worker Strasserite project, is de-proletarianization. The urgency of this task is justified on the grounds that the proletarian condition is incompatible with independence, and is only made possible by “finding possessions for every German,” to give him “independence of thought and development.” Strasser does not mean by this private property, however, which is to be turned over to collective feudal self-management—for ownership belongs to “the whole of the German people”—but rather the land and tools required for small production.30

              In order to accomplish this, Strasser proposes the apportioning of land and means of production on the basis of Erblehen, which can be translated as “hereditary fief” or “inheritance loan.” In agriculture, the state’s role is to loan land as usufruct, through peasant councils, which are passed down to male offspring after death, or else are re-allotted if no male offspring can be found. It is worth mentioning that this was implemented as National Socialist policy, if in a more limited form, with the Hereditary Farm Law of September 29, 1933, which had as its goal the preservation of the peasantry through the “ancient German method of inheritance as the blood source of the German people.”31

              In the case of an industrial enterprise, workers and managers are assigned from their respective vocational councils in fief to a “factory fellowship.” The managers would constitute a “functionary aristocracy” that, Strasser assures us, is much different than a class of capitalists, since it cannot buy shares of any industry, but only inherit their portion from the state. Naturally, the manager’s share of the profits is much lower than that of the workers, since such “copious profit-sharing may foster [an] … overdriving of the means of production and the neglect of improvements.”32 Agricultural workers were to be converted into peasants, and workers not assigned to “factory fellowships” will join the ranks of petty proprietors, craftsmen, and
              professionals, who are organized into guilds.”


            • banned says:

              National socialist will always mean one thing to most people as they reach for their .45.

            • reante says:

              Because the elders wrote history. NS is kryptonite to the elders, so as the OT supremacists and fascists that they are, in shadowplay they call NS white supremacism and fascism. The reason I hammer on NS is because it should be known for the truth’s sake, that at the end of history, their coup de gras was to turn to NS themselves, under cover, in order to save their own asses. Smart.

            • Kowalainen says:

              The problem with grand social engineering projects is that it interferes with people’s desire to:


              You know; get on with life.

              It is technology that is the enabler of new paradigms. Unfortunately with a species heavily vested in the myopia of ordinary; that means war as the prime mover is new tech.

            • reante says:


              A successful social engineering creates desire. Creating desire is the high-grading of manufactured consent.

              Technology is only the enabler of new paradigms on the way up. On the way down the new paradigms are the old, tried and ‘true’ paradigms. We all know that from our preparations.

      • It seems like what goes wrong with the financial situation can be explained many different ways. It sounds to me as if you and Banned are looking at somewhat different aspects of what goes wrong with the financial system.

        The system can fail in many ways. Trying to which one crashes the system is impossible for me. Too much debt can run up prices to an impossibly high level. Too little liquidity for foreign buyers can crash the system in a different way.

  24. Student says:

    A little skit for a bitter laugh about the Mediterranean nightmare.

    – Ocean Viking is a Norwegian-flagged ship with 234 migrants and wants to dock on a Italian port.

    – Italian government asks Norwegian government to take some of them.

    – Norway replies: not at all, it is your problem.



  25. Tim Groves

    But kids, what about the older generation’s wealth, which you will inherit in time if you are good boys and girls? One day, all of this will be yours!

    I answer:

    What wealth?

    A lot of the parents’ wealth are consumed in their final years, leaving nothing for the progeny.

    And, I don’t know about other countries, but in USA it is not uncommon for older parents, just to spite their progeny, to leave everything to universities (usually Harvard, Yale and that kind of institutions) and nothing for their descendants.

    There is often nothing to inherit, and ‘in time’ might mean 50 plus years. In pre-industrial England, first marriges for men at ages over 50 were not too rare, since sons had to wait till their parents to die to inherit their properties. Not surprisingly a lot of men died unmarried.

    The younger generation is not going to fall into the lies the older gen told anymore.

    • Most things we have today will not be very usable without electricity or oil. Today’s jobs will be mostly unavailable. Everything needs to change. How do people get food and water? This will be an important consideration. Also, how do they pay for it, if someone else provides it for them.

      • in uk right now they are discussing ‘contigency plans’ for power outage lasting a week

        that means;

        water gone, and without constant water flow, thats sewage fouled up.

        freezers gone. Freezers are ok for 24 hours, after that, it’s eat it or lose it, for frozen food.

        lifts gone..higher than 5 floors, forget it.

        and that just for starters

        • banned says:

          sawdust from the mill to compost poop good thing to have about.

        • drb753 says:

          Pro tip. If you have an unheated garage or a backyard, put your freezer there in winter.

          • i was told by my (old established, trusted) freezer supplier, that only certain freezers work properely in outside locations

            • banned says:

              The process by which the heat is moved expanding the liquid refrigerant to absorb heat inside insulated box with the evaporator and then discarding that heat at the condenser requires a certain temperature range. Refrigerant pumps may have radically reduced life in very cold environments.

              In moderate climates or in a outbuilding having the refrigerator in lower temperatures may be ok. Outbuildings with some passive solar can provide intermediate environments suitable for refrigerant but cool enough to reduce losses. In a perfect world the condenser and insulated box is where it is cold and the pump is in moderate temperatures with a in situ installation.

              Insulated boxes with a degree of thermal mass ala rocks can be very useful without any electronics if placed out of the sun in a intermediate environment in winter.

          • Adam says:

            That’s more of an amateur tip!!

        • Replenish says:

          We fill our fridge and freezer at the cabin with filled-up one gallon water bottles so when the power goes in our absence the bottles keep everything cold longer. Transfer perishable food to freezer or cooler until power comes back on. When the water thaws out you can use it to wash and/or treat with chlorine bleach to drink in the worst case scenario. You can also invest in a couple cheap styrofoam coolers and keep them full of ice from your freezer with an eye out for cold snaps or heat waves in the forecast. Tarp attached to paint extension poles with zip ties, duct tape and a five gallon bucket to collect rain water from your flat balcony. 4 cinder blocks to anchor pole bases over railing with room underneath for bucket. Extend and retract as needed for back up water supply. Buy a 32-50 gallon plastic trashcan and fill it with tap water, treat with the chlorine bleach as needed. Good luck!

  26. MG says:

    Seeing the situation, I have to stress it again:

    Vladimír Putin is an elderly dementia
    -stricken person: there are huge quantities of costly oil and natural gas around the world, not just in Russia.

    • Student says:

      And you should consider that younger Russian politicians are even more angry with us, therefore it is better to cheer for him 🙂

    • drb753 says:

      His last two hours speech without teleprompter was clearly a Biden-worthy performance.

      • Xabier says:

        Exactly, drb,

        I doubt any younger politician in the West could match him.

        Putin is of course ageing, but far, very far, from senile and incoherent.

        He can provide more than illogical sound-bites; in fact speeches worthy of reflection and analysis.

        • Xabier says:

          Ursula v.d. Leyen actually referred to the fact that Putin was ‘incredibly well-briefed’ and has bright, sharp eyes, as surprising and somehow spooky.

          So funny.

          Compare to creeps like Mark Carney and all those globalist bigwigs who told us to ‘get injected to be safe’. Zombies repeating their lines.

        • MG says:

          He is a solid bard, a rhetoric master, no poor young squeeking creature can match him…

    • Ditto to a lot of ‘leaders’ in the western world


    • Unfortunately, it is deluded thinking that high priced oil and natural gas are helpful to the world economy. It is only inexpensive oil and natural gas (and coal) that work.

      Economists have, for years, made the mistake of thinking that high energy prices would work. Food is, of course, an example of an energy product. In fact, it is the single biggest source of expenditures for very poor people. High food prices leave very little, or nothing, to spend on other goods and services. Thus high energy prices tend to bring the whole economy down.

      Wind and solar cannot possibly work to provide the types of energy taht we really need. The models they are based on are basically un-useful. George E. P. Box supposedly said, “All models are wrong, but some are useful.” Unfortunately, modelers have not understood that intermittent electricity is close to useless.

      Thus, EROEI models, and models that provide the “levelized cost of electricity” suggest that wind and solar are far more useful than they really area. They are too unreliable and too focused on the wrong time of year (summer for solar, spring for wind) to be helpful for heat in winter. They are not very adaptable to help more efficiently grow food.

      Even with the best intentions, modelers helped fuel unrealistic hopes for wind and solar.

      • ivanislav says:

        My interpretation is different. We have “necessary work” (food, energy, heavy industry) and we have the rest of the discretionary/consumer economy. Expensive oil and gas works just fine, as long as they last, but it requires a reorientation of the economy: shrinking of the discretionary sector and enlargement of the energy sector.

        What is especially painful is the transition to less excess “stuff”. The economic disruption involves transfer of jobs from one sector to another. But we can have a steady-state working system so long as it makes sense from a physics perspective. The 70% discretionary economy may shrink to 30% while the number of people involved in maintaining basic energy flows will increase.

        • A relatively smaller number of people can probably live in a less complex economy, it somehow the economy can re-form in such a way. You say

          ” The 70% discretionary economy may shrink to 30% while the number of people involved in maintaining basic energy flows will increase.”

          We know that without fossil fuels, nearly everyone needed to work in agriculture, perhaps with some other work on the side. Agriculture is our most basic “energy flow.”

          The question is how the economy shrinks back and which remainder group can be successful with the relatively higher-cost energy supplies.

          Clearly, hunter-gatherer societies worked for a very long time, but with very few people. The question is the extent to which the fall can be stopped at a much higher level, leaving some subset of the world population to continue with homes, food, fresh water, and a few other amenities.

          • the hunter gatherer society had a 1 : 1 EROEI

            hence no ‘society’ as weunderstand it.

            • Hunter-gatherers still outcompeted other animals. I think that the wood and other biomass they burned helped leverage their human energy. They were able to cook some of their food. This made the energy of the food they ate more available to them. It broke down cell walls to make food more easily digestible.

              It is really the return on human energy that is important. The burning of biomass helped leverage human energy back in hunter-gatherer days, just as the burning of fossil fuels does now. It is more a question of quantity per capita of the energy slaves than anything else. Hunter-gatherers had fewer energy slaves per capita than we do today. Even dogs trained to help in hunting helped to leverage the energy of hunter-gatherers.

              I don’t find EROEI very useful. In part, the problem is that the number has to be “per capita.” Energy slaves per capita is much more useful. Wind and solar are close to useless as energy slaves, but this is not reflected in EROEI calculations, either. It is really the total quantity of usable energy, relative to current population that matters.

            • yes i agree

              adding fire to the mix puts a different take on the hunter-gatherer existence

          • Artleads says:

            Shelter from cardboard is dependent on industrial production of sorts, but at so low a a level as to to be within distant sight of the hunter gathering level of energy use.

          • Ed says:

            “The question is the extent to which the fall can be stopped at a much higher level, leaving some subset of the world population to continue with homes, food, fresh water, and a few other amenities.”

            Yes, this is the interesting question for us to consider.

        • banned says:

          If you say so boss.

    • banned says:

      Dont hear Biden talking about taking him out “out back” for a beating like Trump. Probably being diplomatic and realizing threatening is not becoming for a world leader with the worlds most powerful military.

    • NomadicBeer says:

      MG, is that projection?

      You do seem completely in denial about the state of the world and your own pisspot of a country. No offense, I am also from a tiny country but at least I can see how stupid they are attaching themselves to the sinking ship of the EU and US.

      Good luck with the rest of your life and maybe pick up an outdoor activity – it does help aging brains.

  27. Tim Groves says:

    FE, have you seen this yet? It’s yet another sad story of hubris and nemesis, or if you prefer, of karma richly deserved, and served up garnished with schadenfreude. I know you will appreciate it to kick start your weekend.

    A food writer by trade, Julie Powell wished death on the unjabbed, and you can guess how that ended up.

    • Tim Groves says:

      According to Wikipedia, Powell died of cardiac arrest at her home in Olivebridge, New York, on October 26, 2022, at age 49.

      Cardiac arrest is in the ballpark of jab side-effects.

      However, there’s much more to chew on here:


      Author Julie Powell, whose book Julie and Julia was turned into a hit 2009 movie starring Meryl Streep and Amy Adams, died of cardiac arrest on October 26 at the age of 49, according to a new report from the New York Times. But it’s Powell’s last tweet, sent the day before she died, that’s garnered a lot of attention on social media as fans try to make sense of the tragedy.

      “So I woke up with something that’s literally Black Hairy Tongue. People, including my doctor, seem to think it’s no big deal, and will go away soon, but it certainly is gross,” Powell tweeted on October 25.

      The Mayo Clinic’s website describes black hairy tongue as a “buildup of dead skin cells” that accumulate on the tongue, explaining that while it can look alarming, “typically it doesn’t cause any health problems, and it’s usually painless.”

      Many Twitter users started discussing Powell’s last tweet, with some suggesting her untimely death, along with her diagnosis of black hairy tongue, could have been caused by a covid-19 infection. Others, more inclined to conspiracy theories about the covid-19 vaccine, tried to frame the death as a result of vaccination.

      Based on a search of her tweets, it appears Powell’s husband recently contracted covid-19 twice in the span of just one month and Powell herself tweeted about having the disease in mid-September.

      “Decided to take a nap and woke up sick like a dog. This is how the covid hits, I guess. All of a sudden like,” Powell tweeted on September 10.

      A few days later she shared another tweet about how painful it was living with covid-19.

      “Weirdly, my Covid is getting worse. Terrible headache, cough, probable fever, fatigue,” Powell tweeted on September 13.

      Powell had previously tweeted that she was vaccinated and boosted, and by September 19 the author tweeted that she no longer had covid-19.

      Many right-wing influencers like Tim Pool have seized on the premature deaths of people in the news to suggest that the covid-19 vaccine has caused the deaths, and Powell’s passing was no different. And while adverse reactions to the vaccine can occur, they’re believed to be extremely rare. There are also people who treat every early death in the news these days as something that was almost certainly caused by covid-19. While it’s possible Powell’s death had something to do with covid-19, we simply don’t have any evidence either way right now.

      The U.S. is currently averaging about 39,000 new cases each day, according to BNO News, one of the few places still aggregating data for the entire country on a daily basis now that the CDC has stopped providing updates. The seven-day average for deaths from the disease currently sits at 324. The U.S. has reported over 97 million cases of covid-19 since the start of the pandemic, likely a vast undercount as cases detected at home aren’t added to the official tally, and over 1 million deaths.

      Examining the last tweets and other social media posts of famous people has become a common occurrence now, especially when those people died relatively young. As just one example, fans of musician Chris Cornell were shocked when the Soundgarden frontman took his own life at the age of 52 in 2017, given that his last tweet showed no indication that he was struggling emotionally. But it just shows how we never really know for certain what’s happening inside someone’s head, even as we get a historically unprecedented glimpse of their lives through social media.

    • Xabier says:

      Oops! That’s what Greer the Druid calls the ‘sticky jam’ effect of cursing people.

      Whatever you fling at them will also stick to your own fingers, and may miss the target anyway……

      My gipsy witch cousin says that curses can ‘bounce back’ – same thing really.

      So, Tim, don’t be tempted by any wizardry yourself!

      • Student says:

        I have always thought the same.

      • Tim Groves says:

        I know what your cousin means: Curses, like chickens, come home to roost.

        Julie also expressed reservations about allowing her unjabbed relatives into the house. Conversely, I have no problem with vaxed visitors. I invite them over for tea and smile happily at them while always keeping a bulb of garlic, some holy water, and a crucifix close to hand—purely for medicinal purposes, you understand.

      • NomadicBeer says:

        I agree completely, we should really try to keep our humanity and not become the evil we face.

        Emotionally it is difficult not to feel some schadenfreude when this happens though.

        Can I also say that rationally, it’s hard to believe that people like this will ever change. I am hoping they do but history teaches us otherwise.

        Does anyone know if the witchhunters and the “good Germans” that cheered them on ever got their comeuppance? From what I know they enjoyed their long lives with the stolen goods of the murdered. Only centuries later the historians admitted the evil that was done.

        I don’t expect this time to be any different, so the only justice we can hope for is divine – just like this one.

        • Xabier says:

          Old Spanish proverb current among lawyers, Nomadic:

          ‘You’ll certainly see justice in court – when the Virgin Mary herself manifests there!’

          On the whole, the worst liars, murderers, traitors, torturers and thieves, etc, great or small, have always got away with it.

        • Fast Eddy says:

          This is one of the rare times that the MORE-ONS pay for being Stooopid.

          Enjoy it.

    • drb753 says:

      By definition, evolution always kills the right people. Some times they lose the life lottery due to poor understanding of reality (such as this case), sometimes because they are weak, sometimes because they can not cope with a serf (near vegan) diet.

      We are at a time of rapid depopulation and even mentioning her case is not needed. There are too many like her, and whether they expressed their feelings or not, it does not matter. People will die (before their time) of poor understanding not just due to the jab, but in great numbers also due not knowing when to prepare and get out, or In Ukraine, not knowing that they are being used to poke the bear.

      • Xabier says:

        ‘Let the dead bury the dead: let the living follow me’. Eh, drb?

        • drb753 says:

          It is what it is, Xabier. I was really bad when I understood, two years ago, that members of my family will be part of the great die off. They are not equipped. But we are at war, we mourn for a week, and then attend to what can be done.

          • Xabier says:

            Yes, I agree drb.

            Although I’ve noticed that I’m self-protectively distancing myself slightly from people, given what is likely to happen.

      • reante says:

        drb, indeed, on average it kills the ‘right’ people. and the wrong people get more and more wrong to kill, on average, as time goes by.

    • Fast Eddy says:

      Thanks for this … it makes my day!

      I so enjoy when Stooopidity has consequences… I hope as she felt that stabbing pain in her chest she had the chance to say ‘oh damn – I was wrong’ hahahahaha

      norm – I’ve come clean – I feel joy — your turn….

      • Rodster says:

        The funny part is that even if it wasn’t the vaccines that killed her, the fact she and her hubby got Covid several times after getting “The Jab” should have told her the vaccines don’t work as advertised.

        In the end a death well deserved. Thank you Julie for taking one for the team !

      • one can only hope you make joy as happy as you appear to be eddy

        • Fast Eddy says:

          It doesn’t make you happy when a total f789ing re tar ded MORE-ON pro vax imbecile who mocked anyone who questioned the safety of something that was invented and tested in under a year….

          Falls dead after a jab….

          This is Shakespearean stuff!! hahhahahahaha

          Say hi to your mate dunc… hahahaha… he doesn’t dare show his face here these days hahahaha

          Did I mention a former neighbour – heart damage kept boosting now neuro degeneration – she’ll die soon. Keep boosting norm – safe and effective

          SAFE. EFFECTIVE. repeat after me

          • lol—great imagination eddy.

            I’ve never mocked any ONE about getting vaxxed or otherwise. You are the one who tries to mock–(not very good at it) Check the archives

            Vaxxing is personal choice, nothing more. That seems to drive you nuts.

            I use a little humour on those who tell me that covid was a hoax, the bodies were crisis actors, or about millions of dead babies, (all hidden of course).
            Especially when the same person tells me that Sandy Hook parents were ‘crisis actors’, (and the same about Ukrainians getting killed.
            Plus lots lots more, too tiresome to go into again.

            You really expect other than mockery?

            There isn’t enough substance there for loathing.

            Only sympathy.

            Dunc, and many others have just ‘moved on’—I said at the time you would be doing victory dances on their departure–they have better things to do.

            I was right, Their departure has diminished this forum.

            I should do the same, but I have a morbid fascination on how low your words can go to ‘score” (you like scoring don’t you eddy?)
            Sandy Hook crisis actors was the lowest so far i think.

            • Xabier says:

              Once again , Norman, you are not telling the truth.

              No one has claimed ‘millions of dead babies’.

              But tens of thousands of children have been made seriously ill, neo-natal deaths and miscarriages have shot up, and the UK government actively suppressed the stats on child deaths post vaxx as ‘not being in the national interest’

              All on record.

              If you can’t stick to the truth, and apparently you can’t, you might be best off saying nothing. .

            • Xabier

              the exact term you used was millions of dead and maimed children

              for which of course I am personally responsible– it is that which brings out the hoots of laughter

            • banned says:

              Your full of it Norman. You compared people not choosing to inject the gene modification to Alex Jones and whatnot just like you always do. Now your spouting this new line which amounts to “i dont want to talk about it” only because its crystal clear that every single concern about the gene “therapies” is true cubed. You advocated the injections every single post. Now “personal health choice”. YOU go back through the archives find me one post by you that says “personal health choice” from a year ago. Doesnt exist. Playing the victim to boot. JIVE

            • Banned

              ive always used the concept (worded in various ways) that vaxxing is and can only be a personal choice

              i have never sought to influence others–either way–on it.

              My ridicule is reserved for those ‘blaming me’ for ‘millions of dead and maimed babies’–(actual words used) worth nothing more than derision. You are entitled to think otherwise. I dont get uptight about it.
              I ridicule those asserting that post-vax, metal objects are sticking to skin—and so on, and on, and on.

              For some reason, my take on vaxxing drives some people crazy.
              Fair enough.

              Those same people tell me that Alex Jones (as an example) is a sage of social wisdom. and Sandy hook school shooting was staged by crisis actors (and other major events) There were no moon landings etc. Global warming is a hoax.

              At the start of 2021 covid was also a hoax

              Which makes them somewhat unreliable in the truth department. (And I’m the one making stuff up???????)

              If this applies to you–so be it.

            • “I ridicule those asserting that post-vax, metal objects are sticking to skin.”

              Why? This seems to be a real effect, observed by many people. Do you ridicule other impacts of other diseases or treatments people receive?

    • United Kingdom wished death on anyone who wanted to unify Europe and use all of its resources to advance civilization

      United Kingdom also deserves the same fate as this woman and it seems it is not too far away from receiving its comeuppance.

      • Tim Groves says:

        Well, the UK has been all over as a country apart from a bit of wailing and gnashing of teeth for some years now, and you continental revelers and fans of the Prussian vision of Mitteleuropa have more pressing problems as once again the lamps are going out all over Europe.

        I hope you’ve all got plenty of good thermal underwear and outerwear and plenty of canned dog food to help you get through the next few long cold hungry winters. I would wish you plenty of firewood too, but I understand that the German and Austrian governments are not going to allow the proletariate to heat their homes to temperatures sufficient to stave off chilblains, frostbite and hypothermia in any case.

        • I don’t live there so it is no problem for me, just like you who will try to weather the storm in warmer southern Japan

          United Kingdom will have to suffer for 70 years to pay back for its history of destroying European unity and probably also for ending any possibility of entering the new phase of civilization by destroying all these lives and resources for nothing and by propping up the Third Worlders who will eat the world up.

        • Artleads says:

          I believe that small things win over nothing at all. One small thing won’t save anybody, but billions of small things might help some for some time.

          Flattening out cardboard and trying to use existing bends got me an A-Frame “cold frame” which I put cheap glazing in an used over a most productive tomato plant. I just checked the tomato plant yesterday after several freeze, and the great majority were firm and well formed.

          You can use the cold frame approach over the bed.

  28. Fred says:

    One of Mike Adams’ best.

    An interview with Attorney Todd Callender talking about the GMO/gene altering/sci-fi/body ownership aspects of the vax. Ties a few strands together for me and answers the question of why they were so desperate to jab everyone. Hint: It wasn’t because they were “safe and effective”.

    Todd talks logically, sounds like the lawyer he is and is actively involved in various lawsuits about the jabs, especially helping military people against the DoD’s mandates.

    He comes into the podcast at around 44:30. It’s worth listening to Mike’s Intro from about 42:00 on. Before that he’s talking about the usual prepper/doomer stuff.

    There’s more important material starting at the 1 hour mark. Listen for yourself and decide.

    Todd says at 1:21:45:
    “We really are in the final spiritual battle. The purpose of this enterprise is to genetically modify every plant and animal species for the purpose of spiting God. That’s a stated goal. This is a spiritual battle, build your relationship with God. This is about souls and who gets them in the end days.”

    Some good news comes at around 1:24:00 where Todd outlines how ‘their plan’ isn’t working and Mike talks about ‘antidotes’ to the jabs. Various geopolitical events are tied into the jabs and the efforts of the bad guys.

    Yeah, I know we’re all going to die anyway from energy decline, but it’s good to get a geopolitical overview and understand what the bad guys are up to. It’s not just random chance.

    Shout out to the Russians too. They’re doing the hard yards for us.



    • Xabier says:

      This effort to achieve ‘total genetic dominance’ hasn’t come out of the blue: it is the logical consequence of the whole Western scientific endeavour since the early 17th century.

      As Lord Bacon put it then, systematic scientific study and continual innovation would ‘enlarge the Empire of Man’.

      The ‘secrets of Nature’ had to be ‘broken open’, in order to dominate and control her.

      Of course, they are also quite mad, and very, very bad…….

    • Oh my,

      ““We really are in the final spiritual battle. The purpose of this enterprise is to genetically modify every plant and animal species for the purpose of spiting God. That’s a stated goal. This is a spiritual battle, build your relationship with God. This is about souls and who gets them in the end days.”

      Also, what Xabier says:

      “This effort to achieve ‘total genetic dominance’ hasn’t come out of the blue: it is the logical consequence of the whole Western scientific endeavour since the early 17th century.”

      The story gets really strange!

      • Xabier says:

        Cruel experiments on living dogs go back to that century, too.

        Good intentions, strange dreams and fantasies, cruelty and psychopathy, curiosity and ambition without ethical limits, have always been a part of science.

        And things going wrong in unexpected ways: Lord Bacon himself died after experimenting with a frozen chicken!

      • Cromagnon says:

        “As in the days of Noah”

      • Dennis L. says:

        God has a huge stake in we humans, it will be fine; this is not the first time that a group of humans have made a bad bet.

        The images from the JWST show a huge, violent, beautiful universe developing over billions of years. God has a large palate, evolution is truly on a cosmic scale.

        Lex Fridman has had two recent guests who mention the fabric of the universe, evolution, sentience, and life itself through two different lenses, biology and GAI. The podcasts are long, but worth listening to maybe even twice.
        Andrej Karpathy GAI and Michael Levin biology.

        God is not done with us yet. He is allowing us to explore ideas at an incredible rate; this is producing strains in our world between the new and the old.

        Dennis L.

    • reante says:

      I find this train of thought to be totally overblown, religious mythology. Propaganda for the ‘resistance.’ The genetics of everything has already been modified. When you decrease global biodiversity by 50pc, that modification has a way of happening. Epigenetics is modification in action. Gene expression — activating and deactivating genes — is modification. The vaxx modified gene expression. Has it modified some genomes, too? Probably. Someone should look into that. But that doesn’t mean it’s modified the genome of every cell in the body. And genomes aren’t set in stone, obviously.
      What we eat effects our gene expression. exercise, sleep. Everything does. They’ve been drastically modifying gene expression with pharmaceuticals for a long time now. The heavy childhood vaccination schedule is so that they can heavily modify the gene expression of childrens’ pathways to healing well in advance of their tearing children so that family pathways of disease (intergenerational gene expression) turn into deep ruts.

      Turning everything GMO — with hard genetic modification — makes no sense. It’s impossible in the first place, amid ongoing collapse, but it also implies the belief that elites want to live in knee-deep shit. GMOs are extremely poorly adapted organisms that have to live in controlled conditions or they will be outcompeted, because the modification affects the whole system and destabilizes it.

      The reason I hammer-on about national socialism is because most of the ‘resistance’ content out there is elite propaganda — whether it be self-organized (grassroots) effective propaganda, which is a positive feedback loop (reactionary dynamic) of the elite false dialectic, or whether it be manufactured propaganda by agents — in service of the coming manufactured, global, reverse- color revolutions.

      Collapse management 101: create rock-bottom expectations for a future, totally unrealistic politics (global technofeudalism) to the point where the pressure cooker is a-rattling. Bring in the national socialist color revolutions which drastically exceeds the expectations of the demographics better suited to collapse, so as to partially offset standard-of-living declines, and to run the rock-bottom, rotten establishment demographics that are highly unsuited to collapse, off-of a cliff.

      So let’s not forget that in the future politics, ‘we’ (not me that’s for damn sure) become the new establishment, and the cultural Progress Myth lives on for another decade, maybe, so they can use it to their advantage once again, commit atrocities of control in ‘our’ names against anyone who doesn’t do what they say. Twas ever thus.

      Rinse and repeat. I ain’t buying it. It’s like we’re in the movie “Speed” right now. It’s easy to fall in love when things spin out of control and you need something of superficial beauty and seeming solidity to hang onto. It’s a nested kind of capture bonding.

      • Cromagnon says:

        If secular objective viewpoint is true the epigenetic forces upon human genome will drive hard to put us into full “ mini me “ Sasquatch status. The removal of most of the planets mega fauna makes reversion to pack hypercarnivore status unlikely.
        The quiescent DNA will be forced into activation creating a smaller, highly omnivorous lower IQ creature.

        if the ancient texts are documentary. The past is merely a template of the future, then we may well see “ impossible things”,….. vapor canopy, the release/emergence of a highly competitive adversary into the surface world ( Homo Annuna), re emergence in Homo sapiens of gigantism, hyper intelligence and extreme sexual dimorphism. Megafauna may well re-emerge rapidly into this reality.

        Anyone every notice how much the typical rendition of an
        “ Alien”. looks so much like “ human mole rats “????

        Think it through…..

        • reante says:

          I don’t have the background to think it through. You have to take the lead on that.

          If pockets of Soay sheep survive a catastrophic pole reversal or whatever, where there are also pockets of humans, then Soay sheep will also survive, because wherefore the two did survive, there must be vegetation that survived, and the human will only have survived due to the Soay. Which would make it a reversal in more ways than one. I know that much. Soay experienced 30-70pc dieoffs every winter for 2000 years.

          I agree with your first paragraph for other pockets of humans. I hadn’t thought about the deeply divergent paths humans may take. Extreme landraces of men.

          I can’t speak to the second paragraph. I’ll believe it when I see it. I do believe in aliens as I’ve mentioned before but I cannot make rational sense of the idea that an alien can truly adapt to earth biology. But I think you’re talking about something other than aliens. If natural (biological) law can’t explain it, then I won’t understand it.

          • reante says:

            then HUMANS will also survive…

          • Cromagnon says:

            There are no aliens. There never were.

            Humans adapted to underground living completely….ergo: classic “Aliens”
            Diminutive status, large eyes, pale skin.

            We share the planet currently with several other Homo types.

            I suspect that the biblical “wormwood” will in fact be a open reemergence onto the surface world of these species.

            A massive near extinction level event with the first sky dragon (solar micro nova and lithospheric displacement) followed by the second sky dragon and the armies of the apocalypse ( demons erupting into the physical world) pouring up from the underground.

            The simulation must simulate.

        • read your comment several times

          you still lost me Cro

          • Cromagnon says:

            Lol, that happens a lot!

            Our reality is not real. But it is mathematically derived. Ancients understood this.
            It took a lot of repeated assaults on my intellect before I could fathom this old truth.
            Nothing is “ new”, everything has been repeated, earth is a school.

            Sky dragons are a medieval term for comets.
            Read Revelations and the apocryphal texts of Enoch and Jasher.
            Try to view the old writings with modern eyes.

            I don’t like to talk about wormwood because it appears too bizarre and supernatural for modern secularists.

            Better to discuss energy restriction and perhaps the first sky dragon ( which is probably solar in essence and not cometary truly). Solar nova event and lithospheric shift….. cataclysm.

            As for second sky dragon ( 15th century prophet Mother Shipton) and Nostradamus.

            The very real prospect of underworld “ demons” pouring into this reality creeps me out also. For what little that’s worth.

            The similacrum is a very strange place.

            • reante says:

              So what’s up with UFOs if there are no aliens?

              What exactly do you mean by reality being mathematically derived?

            • Cromagnon says:

              UFOs appear to be machinations/mechanisms/holographic projections of the simulacrum. Much of their “ miraculous” capabilities fades when one recognizes that they are not “ craft” and they are not extraterrestrial.
              They may well be rangerfinders or monitoring mechanisms utilized by either the AI running this farce or by the entities responsible for the “Dyson shell like structure “ of this “universe”.
              The mathematics of reality are known. In practical terms isometric analysis can be utilized to accurately predict both near term and long term events in the simulasphere.
              Nostradamus was using isometrics in his predictive works ( not looking into a bowl of water,…. although the ripples moving away from any given impact are a good analogue for events in the timeline past and future). What has happened in the past will repeat within certain constraints in the future. Individuals however move inside reality tunnels that do twist and turn within the repetitive matrix of the simulacrum Itself.
              I am a neophyte in this, there are far more knowledgeable Homo sapiens than I.
              I expect there are Homo anunna who almost everything.

            • with all due respect I think I’ll pass on that Cro

              I’m in enough trouble as it is on OFW, with accusations of trying to inflict my style of insanity on people who are not in possession of the necessary documentation which would prove that they are sane

              Whereas I have all the essential paperwork, signed by 2 psychiatrists, confirming that I am safe to live in the community.

              For the time being.

        • Lidia17 says:

          I think the first case is more likely. Our brains are already shrinking. If we survive, it may be as a kind of more-devious lemur.

  29. Under Flowerpot says:

    In the book, “Stay Alive, My Son” which is a first hand account of a guy who gets to sidestep the ripping-off-faces (ROF) elements of the Khmer Rouge, the author describes trying to start a monetary system, justifying that through force of greed and a new normalcy bias, that trust, of a sort, could be geared and a trade system could be manufactured. He was a highly educated and chief city engineer. He experienced such anguish at the madness of everything after being marched out of Phnom Penh with his nuclear and extended family because he thought problem solving might get somewhere. He kept his faith in rationality alive by trying. As the title suggests, he lost this faith and walked out of Cambodia without his children.

    His account, made before the documentation flood from Cambodia, gives the hope of personal competence and duty without the full understanding of how entirely the situation was oriented against determination.

    FWIW. The more I watch current events, the more they seem like the Sack of Phnom Penh in super-slo-mo. I think UEP/CEP is the G-rated version. The more I re-inspect Pol Pot, the more I detect proto Neo-Marxism. I might be a wildly small minority even contemplating such, but knowing that Herbert Marcuse wrote what he wrote, and Pol Pot believed what he believed, and the French versions of anti-colonialist activism, there is something there. It is as if Pol Pot engaged in a Neo-Marxist Communist Revolution. All civilization perspectives must be appalled at draining one’s own capitol city and putting all its residents into forced labour regardless of station, education or affiliation. The first rule of Cold War Politics, “No one talks seriously about the Khmer Rouge”.

    Of course, those who want civilizations to implode have to be giddy that city folk can be cowed in under a week to accept slavery, deprivation and arbitrary capital punishment. Give them a lie wrapped in personal accountability for guilt by association, and they’ll swallow it. “The Americans, your former protectors, will now bomb you too for being part of us, join us in the jungles for survival.” And the civilization auto-destructs with each seditious affidavit “I am an exception to needs of jungle survival.”

    The whole situation was likely the most complicated geo-political, geo-historical mashup ever. It does not excuse the death and cruelty, but it does demonstrate how to drive a people group, which had a breathtaking history overrun by new, competing and overlapping realities, insane. It is instructive because Pol Pot, the gentleman’s C guy that he was, was a true believer. Although his actions were not schooled by debt or money, and the jargon did not exist yet, the Khmer Rouge implemented an Anti-Racist Green New Deal.

    • All is Dust says:

      One thing that interests me is the remnant aspect mentioned in the old testament. I’m not particularly religious (I tend to lean on the nine noble virtues of norse paganism and stoic teachings), but I think that without a cohesive mental framework to bind a group together in mutual respect and cooperation it seems people are susceptible to terrible ideas. Gad Saad calls this something like “parasite ideology” where bad ideas are potentially lethal to individuals.

      I’m not saying that a remnant is the way out of this mess, but I think it is the best way to remain sane as aspects of our civilisation collapse around us. It would also serve as a means of building trust in an ever deceitful world.

      The psychological assault on civilisation over the last 3 years has been amazing (and disturbing) to witness. Just think of how powerful it has been to break down maternal bonds. I think of a mother with a buggy on the platform at a train station. If that buggy were to roll off the platform and onto the track putting the child inside in harms way she would instinctively leap down and pull that child to safety without even thinking. Now contrast that with the jabs – mothers are willingly injecting their children with junk for a disease which doesn’t affect them. I suspect the nihilistic nature of existence has made people so mentally weak.

      • Xabier says:

        And look at how all the authorities in the various churches – Mormon, Church of England, Catholic – caved in: masked up, then holding virtual services and brutally excluding the unvaccinated.

        They showed that they don’t really believe in Eternal Life and a protecting deity, and their religion is all theatre.

        Just scared conformist apes.

        A few honourable exceptions, thankfully.

        Some orthodox Jews resisted, ironically, given the policies of the Israeli state.

        • All is Dust says:

          That is a good point, Xabier, and it was bizarre to see. It makes me wonder what these people have faith in… Maybe there was a caveat in scripture that I didn’t see…

          You shall have no other Gods before me*

          * except Anthony Fauci and Bill Gates

          • Xabier says:

            The Christians who take the Book of Revelations to be a prophecy are in a strong psychological position in some ways: prepared to deal with persecution, resisting vaccination, world war, etc. Walking the walk.

            Better than our Archbishop of Canterbury, and his ‘Get vaccinated to show your love for others’……

            • JesseJames says:

              Many US Christians now foolishly believe they will be “raptured up and away” during the tribulation. They have no desire or need to prepare for anything. “No worries” …let the world go to hell cause I am going to be out of here.

            • Fast Eddy says:

              And unlike the doomies who use waste their money and what little time is left stacking cans of tuna … these Christians have the right idea — do nothing — and hope there is an afterlife… cuz nobody’s making it through this bottleneck.

              The Christians can use their $$$ and time to frequent VIP rooms and get a nice feature dancer to perform in the private room

              Now that’s winning! And if there’s not afterlife you’ve already experienced heaven a number of times

              Sooo EEEEEE… Fast update – now in Coral Bay .. the Tiger Shark swim beckons… Tuesday.

              I booked the manta ray thing and asked them if I could rent a spear gun… they asked why? Why? Well because I want to spear a ray and get it mounted and bring it back to NZ — that’s why. Then I asked if there is a VIP room in town.. not that there’s much of a town … there’s not much of anything here… cept the Tiger Shark.

              They think I am mentally ill now…

          • Xabier says:

            What do they believe in is the question. Not the God they preach about, who promises them Paradise, that’s for sure.

            Nor did they try to protect the sanctity of their places of worship.

            I read a sad comment by a Mormon lady, who was suspicious of the vaxxes, but the elders told them all to get vaxxed-up, and after much praying she did. They see the elders as ‘prophets’. Nasty injury in consequence.

            Her actions were at least consistent with the beliefs of the Mormon community, and she wasn’t acting in fear, but such a pity that she didn’t follow her intuition.

  30. Lastcall says:

    Interesting comments re amnesty for Cov idiots on Z hedge article.


    Remedies range from piano wire, to woodchippers, to liquid nitrogen, to the old favourite, burning at the stake.
    Not much middle ground left for most issues these days.
    I have passed on our end of year functuion; can’t be bothered being in a confined space with the cov idiots/ Ukraine suporting/climax chunge/wokester zombies.

  31. CTG says:

    Elon Musk Reportedly Expands Private Jet Fleet With This $78 Million Gulfstream

    Interesting article…


    Interesting comment in the comment section :

    My ex was basically a flying concierge for a high ranking Saudi prince’s 777. When he was in Courchevel with the plane parked in Lyon, he wanted his favorite melons from Spain. He flew the 777 to Spain to pick them up. You would expect the plane to return directly to Lyon, right? Nope. It flew to KSA so his melon inspector could give them a once over before allowing them to be flown back to Lyon.

    And there’s several pictures of this prince with the ever so eco-conscious Leonardo DiCaprio.

    so much for the sheep believing in klimat change. Wow… such hubris… do what I say and not do what I do

    • I AM THE MOB says:

      I read one of the former CEO’s of GE used to fly in the top private jet. And had a second jet trail him everywhere. Just in case there was any mechanical problems, he could switch.

    • Fast Eddy says:

      Yep – but believe they will no matter what…

      It’s a form of mental illness…

      It’s like showing a gay guy this photo and his response will be .. so?

      Control yourself norm


      • Xabier says:

        We are tiring, Norman, of your many pointless posts pointing out the number, and now it seems timing, of FE’s.

        Maybe you could try to contribute something informative and relevant for a change?

        Then again, probably not: it’s beyond you.

        • c’mon now Xabier— inmates of OFW have occasionally complimented me on my input at different times—at least try to be aware (or at least not in denial) in that respect

          If eddy falls out of bed, and his first thought at 7 am is of me, wouldn’t you say that’s a bit odd?
          Not my doing that eddy posts 100 comments for every 1 of mine. (count ’em)

          Are you trying to catch up or something?

    • Xabier says:

      Great anecdote.

      ‘The Pope can have his mistresses, but you can burn at the stake, sinner, heretic, enemy of society!’

    • Fred says:

      You go Elon! BAU baby, Mars here we come.

  32. Slowly at first says:

    I wonder why it is that so few of us can be said to have figured it all out? I refer to our acute awareness of the human predicament.

    • CTG says:

      People choose not to.. example : don’t take the vax, it is not even fully tested yet…

      Oh.. it is fine…. for the good of everyone. You seriously think this group of people will figure out our predicament?

      • Adonis says:

        I just got back from the doctor to get some prescribed medicines for a heavy upper respiratory infection im battling doctor says have you had your covid vaccination i saidyes doctor says breath out through your mouth as he listens with his stethoscope isaid to doctor whats with all the wheezing will it go away doctor says nothing to worry about your immune system will fix that up.

        • Xabier says: