Is it possible that the world is approaching end times?

I frequently write that the world economy is, in physics terms, a dissipative structure that is powered by energy. It can grow for a time, but eventually it reaches limits of many kinds. Ultimately, it can be expected to stop growing and collapse.

It seems to me that the world economy is showing signs that it has reached a turning point. Economic growth stopped in 2020 and is having trouble restarting in 2021. Fossil fuel energy of all types (oil, coal and natural gas) is in short supply, relative to the world’s huge population. Ultimately, this inadequate energy supply can be expected to pull the world economy toward collapse.

The world economy doesn’t behave the way most people would expect. Standard modeling approaches miss the point that economies require adequate supplies of energy products of the right kinds, provided at the right times of day and year, if they are to keep from collapsing. Shortages are not necessarily marked by high prices; prices that are too low for producers will bring down the energy supply quickly. A collapse may occur due to inadequate demand; in fact, such a scenario is described in Revelation 18.

As strange as it may seem, we may be approaching what some of us would think of as end times, if our economy collapses for lack of cheap-to-produce energy supplies. In this post, I will try to explain what is happening.

[1] In some ways, the self-organizing economy is like a child’s building toy that, with the use of human energy, can be built up to higher and higher levels.

Figure 1. Thought map by Gail Tverberg.

The economy is gradually built up by the addition of new customers, new businesses and new products. Governments play a role as well, adding new infrastructure, laws and taxes. Adequate wages for employees are important because, to a significant extent, employees are also consumers of goods and services made by the economy.

Adequate energy supplies of the right types are terribly important because every process used by the economy requires energy, even if the only energy used is electricity to light a light bulb or operate a computer. Heating and cooling require energy, as does transportation.

Human energy is an important part of the economy, as well. Humans eat food to provide them with energy. An individual human’s own energy output is relatively tiny; it is about equal to the output of a 100-watt light bulb. With the use of supplemental energy of various kinds, humans can do many tasks that would not be possible otherwise, such as cooking food, creating metals from ores, heating homes, and building cars and trucks.

The economy cannot “go backwards” because, if a product is no longer needed, it will no longer be produced. The economy represented by Figure 1 is in some sense hollow inside. For example, once people started using automobiles, buggy whips were no longer made. If cities went back to using horses as their main means of transport, we would need manure removal services. These, too, would be missing.

[2] Another way of thinking about the world economy is that it is somewhat like a rocket that needs fuel. It also has waste outputs. Both of these limit the growth of the world economy.

Figure 2. Chart by Gail Tverberg.

The economy uses a wide array of inputs. At the same time, it produces a whole host of undesirable outputs. Inputs need to be inexpensive to produce, or citizens will not be able to afford the goods and services made by the system. The waste outputs cannot become too significant, or they can lead the economy to fail. In fact, with the world’s growing population, we seem to be reaching many limits with respect to both inputs and undesirable outputs, simultaneously.

[3] Strangely enough, the major energy limit that the world economy is hitting seems to be “energy prices that do not rise high enough for producers.”

This energy limit is exactly the opposite of what most people are looking for. They assume that “demand” will always rise. In fact, the cost of production of energy products keeps rising because the easy to produce energy products are produced first. It is the market prices that energy products can be sold for that do not rise adequately.

When we trace the problem back, we discover that the problem with prices arises from the equivalence between producers of goods and services and consumers of goods and services indicated on Figure 1. In order to have enough “demand” to keep energy prices high enough for providers, it turns out that even the very low wage people in the world economy need to be able to afford necessities such as food, water, clothing, basic housing and transportation. In fact, if the cost of extracting fossil fuels rises too quickly because of depletion, or if the cost of getting renewable electricity into a form in which it is useful for society rises too much, there may be a situation when even a price based on full demand from all consumers is too low for energy producers.

Let’s define “return on human labor” as what a person without advanced training can earn by selling his physical labor as unskilled labor. Rather than dollar or euro terms, wages need to be thought of in terms of the physical goods and services that these wages can purchase. If supplemental energy per capita is rising rapidly, the return on human labor tends to rise. This happens because with higher energy consumption, humans can have more tools and technology requiring energy at their command. For example, the period between 1950 and 1970 was a time when energy consumption was rising rapidly. It was also a time of rising standards of living, even for workers without advanced training.

Figure 3. World per capita energy consumption, with the 1950-1980 period of rapid growth highlighted. World Energy Consumption by Source, based on Vaclav Smil’s estimates from Energy Transitions: History, Requirements and Prospects (Appendix) together with BP Statistical Data for 1965 and subsequent years, divided by population estimates by Angus Maddison.

The world economy can be expected to run into a major problem once supplemental energy consumption per capita starts falling because then human labor is necessarily less leveraged by fewer machines, such as trucks and airplanes. In total, fewer goods and services can be produced.

If energy supply is inadequate, businesses often find it advantageous to substitute computers or other machines for some work previously done by low paid workers. While these machines use a little energy in their operation, they do not need food, housing or transportation the way human workers do. With fewer actual workers, demand for finished goods and services tends to fall, pushing commodity prices, including those for fossil fuels, down. This further adds to the low-price problem.

It is the lack of jobs that pay well that tends to hold down commodity prices below the prices producers require. Ultimately, it is the lack of sufficient jobs that pay well that tends to bring the whole economy down. Most researchers have missed this important point.

[4] In the period leading up to collapse, wages fail to rise with the cost of required services. This leads to increasingly unhappy workers. Healthcare costs and college costs are especially problematic, because their costs have been rising faster than costs in general.

Figure 4. Illustrates the issue that seems to be occurring:

Figure 4. Chart from Washington Post based on a Cost-of-Thriving analysis by Oren Cass.

When energy consumption per capita is growing rapidly, the economy adds items that were not previously considered necessary. Instead of a basic education for all being sufficient, advanced education (often paid for by the student) becomes necessary for many jobs. Healthcare costs keep rising rapidly, making it more difficult to make wages cover all necessary expenses (Figure 4).

We can see additional evidence that workers have been tending to get poorer in recent years by looking at the trend in the number of light vehicles purchased. With rising population, a person would expect the number of automobiles sold to increase, year after year, if citizens found their incomes as adequate as in the past. Instead, we see a pattern of falling automobile sales, practically everywhere, starting well before 2020. For example, peak light vehicle sales in China occurred in 2017.

Figure 5. Auto sales by country based on data of

[5] An increase in debt can temporarily be used to hide both inadequate inexpensive-to-produce energy supply and inadequate wages of workers, but we seem to be reaching limits using this approach to hide energy problems.

The last time the world had relatively stable low oil prices was in the years prior to 1973. As noted previously, low energy prices tend to make finished goods, such as homes and cars, inexpensive to buy and operate. Thus, they tend to be affordable.

Figure 6. Inflation-adjusted oil prices based on data of BP’s 2021 Statistical Review of World Energy.

The big issue if oil and other prices rise very high is that the selling prices of goods and services tend to rise too high to be affordable to consumers. The workaround that was developed to fix this unaffordability problem was to change the economy to use more debt. To be affordable, interest rates had to fall lower and lower. Peak interest rates occurred in 1981; they have been trending downward since then.

Figure 7. 10-Year US Treasury and 3-Month Treasury yields, through November 2021. Chart by St. Louis Federal Reserve (FRED).

If debt at ever-lower interest rates is available, assets such as homes, farmland, factories and shares of stock become more affordable, allowing prices of these assets to rise. Owners of these assets feel wealthier. In fact, they may borrow more money against the inflated price of these assets and use this money to buy more goods and services made with commodities, thus helping to raise commodity prices. The lower interest rates make the purchase of automobiles more affordable as well, helping to raise the price of commodities used to make and operate automobiles.

There is a limit on how low these interest rates can go, however, especially if inflation is a problem. Current interest rates seem to be down near where they were during the Great Depression of the 1930s. This suggests that the economy is truly doing very poorly.

Today, Brent oil prices are about $69 per barrel. This price is not high enough for producers to want to prepare more fields for drilling. As far as I can see, the price needs to be up in the range of $120 per barrel, and stay there for many years, for oil producers to consider putting major effort into developing more fields. Natural gas and coal have similar low-price problems.

While governments cannot seem to be able to fix the low-price problem for fossil fuels, they can find ways to pay their citizens money for doing nothing, or next to nothing. These payments will add to a government’s debt, but they don’t really produce more goods and services. What these payments tend to produce is inflation in the prices of goods and services that are available.

Over time, we can expect the lack of growth in energy supply to lead to an increasing number of broken supply lines. Without long-term high-price guarantees, producers will not be willing to increase production. Without adequate fuel supply, an increasing number of products will disappear from the shelves of stores. A smaller number of people will have jobs, especially jobs that pay well. The economy can be expected to head in the direction of collapse.

We can think of debt as a promise of future goods and services, made with future energy production. If energy supplies are rising rapidly and can be expected to continue to rise rapidly in the future, this promise can be expected to hold. Of course, if energy supplies start falling, all bets are off. Supply lines are likely to break. We consider money and other securities issued by governments to be a “store of value,” but, if there is little to buy (for example, all international flights are cancelled and automobiles of the desired type are permanently out of stock), its ability to act as a store of value will start to disappear. If the economy collapses completely, neither stocks nor bonds will have value.

[6] Nothing happens for a single reason in a self-organizing economy. Lack of energy affects every part of the economy, from jobs to finished output, almost simultaneously.

In a self-organizing economy, everything is interconnected. Inadequate energy per capita leads to low selling prices for commodities of all kinds. Inadequate energy per capita also leads to low wages for workers, low benefits provided by governments, and uprisings to protest these low wages and benefits. These uprisings began in 2019 or even earlier.

The unhappiness of workers leads to the election of increasingly radical politicians, in the hope that something can be done to fix the problems. There are basically not enough goods and services to go around, but no one wants to admit that this could be a problem.

[7] Citizens cannot imagine a declining and eventually collapsing economy. Businesses, governments and individual citizens all demand “happily ever after futures.”

Figure 8. Chart by Gail Tverberg. Amounts through 2020 based on an analysis of historical energy consumption using the same sources as those used in Figure 3.

If there is a history of growth, nearly everyone is happier if forecasts pretend that economic growth can continue forever. Newspapers want such stories, because this is what their advertisers, such as automakers, want. Automobiles need to be usable for a long period in the future. Universities want favorable forecasts because they want their students to believe that their degrees will have great future value. Politicians want a story of growth forever, because this is what voters want and expect. They have come to believe that governments can save them from all problems; there is no longer any need for religion.

As energy supplies get scarce, the rich tend to become richer and the poor tend to become poorer. François Roddier explains that this is because of the physics of the situation. Wealthy individuals and corporations discover that they have a rapidly growing ability to influence the narrative provided by Mainstream Media. If influential citizens and groups want citizens to hear a “happily ever after ending” to our current problems, they can make certain that this is the predominant narrative of Mainstream Media. It is only people who are willing to hear sources outside of the mainstream who can learn what is really happening.

The fact that the world economy would run into energy limits about now has been known for a very long time. For example, US Navy Rear Admiral Hyman Rickover talks about the close connection between energy and the economy in this 1957 speech. He points out that the world is likely to run short of fossil fuel by 2050. Later modeling documented in the 1972 book The Limits to Growth indicated that the world economy was likely to collapse in a similar timeframe. The modeling done in that analysis considered rising population relative to total resources, without looking at energy resources separately.

[8] It is easy to create models that predict growth will continue forever, even if the physics of the situation says this is not possible.

Economists provide their work to politicians. They certainly cannot provide forecasts of a coming calamity such as economic collapse. They also are unaware of the physics of the situation, even though many researchers have been writing about the issue from a physics point of view since at least the mid-1980s.

Economists have chosen instead to make models that assume no limits are ahead. They seem to assume that all problems will be fixed by innovation, substitution and the pricing mechanism. They produce forecasts suggesting that the economy can grow endlessly in the future. Based on these forecasts, they provide input to models that reach the conclusion that amazingly large amounts of fossil fuels will be extracted in the future. Based on these nonsensical models, our problem is not the near-term limits that we are reaching; instead, our chief problem is climate change. Its impacts occur mostly in the future.

A corollary to this belief system is that it is we humans who are in charge and not the laws of physics. We can expect governments to protect us. We don’t need any outside help from a literal Higher Power who created the laws of physics. We need to listen to what the authorities on earth tell us. In fact, in troubled times, governments need more authority over their citizens. The many concerns regarding COVID-19 make it easy for governments to increase their control over citizens. We are told that it is only by following the mandates of governments that we will get through this strange time.

With nearly everyone on board with the idea that somehow the story of near-term collapse must be avoided at all costs, every part of the economy bases its actions on the narrative that the world economy is voluntarily moving away from fossil fuels. In this narrative, renewables will save us; electric vehicles are the way of the future; the world economy can continue to grow, but in a new way.

In fact, we are colliding with resource limits, right now. This seems to be what produced the bizarre situation experienced in 2020.

[9] As 2020 began, many sectors of the world economy were squeezed simultaneously. With limited energy resources, large parts of the economy needed to be cut back. The self-organizing economy acted in a very strange way. Shutdowns supposedly aimed at stopping COVID-19 from spreading acted very much like energy rationing, without mentioning the world’s energy problem.

Figure 9. World per capita energy supply by type of fuel, based on BP 2021 Statistical Review of World Energy data.

Several years before 2020, it should have been clear that the world economy was doing very poorly based on the continued need for very low interest rates (Figure 7) and Quantitative Easing. China, in particular, was doing poorly, as indicated by its low sales of automobiles (Figure 5). Of course, China doesn’t broadcast its problems to the rest of the world, so few people were aware of this issue.

China had been able to boost the world’s per capita supply of inexpensive-to-produce energy by ramping up its coal production after it joined the World Trade Organization in 2001. (Note the world ramp-up in coal, starting after 2001, on Figure 9.) Unfortunately, because of depletion, China’s coal production since 2013 has been close to flat. Furthermore, China had had a big recycling business, but discontinued it effective January 1, 2018. Discontinuation of this program was necessary because oil prices had fallen in 2014 and had never recovered to their former level. With low oil prices, most recycling in China made no sense economically. The loss of jobs from recycling and cutbacks in coal operations no doubt contributed to the declining sale of vehicles in China.

In the years before 2020, another big issue was that the wages of many workers were not keeping up with the rising cost of living. Figure 4 illustrates this issue for the US. The problem was especially acute for lower wage workers. During this period, the prices of many commodities were too low for producers. This led to layoffs and low wages for workers.

In early 2020, the world became aware of a new coronavirus that had been identified in China. The response to this new illness was very strange, compared to how previous pandemics had been handled. The response looked a great deal like intentionally scaring people (especially older people) into staying at home. If this were done, much less oil could be used. Natural gas and coal consumption could be reduced, as well.

This story is perhaps not so strange if we look at it in context. On January 8, 2020, I wrote that we should be expecting recession and low oil prices in 2020. I included this oil price chart.

Figure 10. Inflation adjusted weekly average Brent oil price, based on EIA oil spot prices and US CPI-urban inflation.

On January 29, I wrote, It is easy to overreact to a coronavirus. In this article, I pointed out that the economy already seemed to be headed in the direction of recession. Shutdowns would only make the problem worse.

Politicians choosing to shut down their economies in early 2020 were likely not aware that the real underlying problem within their economy was inadequate availability of inexpensive-to-produce energy. They were aware that China had decided to shut down part of its economy, so perhaps there might be some usefulness to such an action. Local leaders outside of China knew that their own factories were underutilized. If their own factories could be shut down temporarily, perhaps they could operate at closer to capacity, once they reopened.

Furthermore, a shutdown would give an excuse to keep workers protesting low wages inside. After the shutdown, there would be an excuse to raise the debt level, perhaps keeping the financial part of the economy going for a while longer. So, a shutdown would have many benefits, apart from any potential benefit from (sort of) containing the virus.

It became apparent as time went on that the vaccine story for COVID-19 was playing multiple roles, as well. The healthcare industry was becoming very large in the US. In fact, the size of the healthcare industry was beginning to interfere with the economy as a whole (Figure 4). Furthermore, manufacturers of medicines and vaccines were having problems with diminishing returns because the big, important drug finds had been discovered years ago. It was becoming difficult to profitably fund all of the research needed for new drugs.

Behind the scenes, the vaccine industry had been working for years on creating new viruses and preparing vaccines for these same viruses. The theory was that the same approaches that delivered vaccines might be helpful in treating diseases of various kinds. Vaccines might also be helpful in responding to bioweapon attacks. If drug manufacturers could market a blockbuster vaccine, the manufacturers, as well as the individuals holding the vaccine patents, could become rich.

The US was not alone in the research with respect to viruses and vaccines for these viruses. Many major countries, including Canada, France, Italy, Australia and China had funded this research, partly through their budgets for health research and partly through military budgets. There was virtually no chance that anyone would figure out the source of any problematic virus because so many major countries had had a part in funding this research. If citizens could be convinced that the virus was extremely dangerous and mandate the use of vaccines, the vaccine industry could greatly profit from vaccine sales. The vaccine could be created and marketed quickly because all of the research (but not enough testing) had been performed earlier.

A great deal of planning had been done before the pandemic appeared, based to a significant extent upon what outcome vaccine makers would prefer. Johns Hopkins University completed a SPARS Pandemic Scenario in October 2017, rehearsing responses to a pandemic. A training exercise called Event 201 was held on October 18, 2019, for the purpose of training high level government officials and news writers what their responses should be.

The sponsors of Event 201 were “The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.” The latter two organizations are representatives of the very wealthy individuals and very large corporations. The primary interest of these organizations is enriching those who are already wealthy. The World Economic Forum is known for proclaiming, “You’ll own nothing and you’ll be happy.”

As time went on, it became very clear that the true nature of the COVID-19 epidemic was being hidden from citizens. It was, and is, not a terribly dangerous illness if it is treated properly with any number of inexpensive medications including aspirin, ivermectin, antihistamine and steroids. In fact, the severity of the disease could also be lessened by taking vitamin D in advance. There really was not a great deal of point to the vaccines, except to enrich the vaccine manufacturers and those who would benefit from the sale of the vaccines, including Anthony Fauci and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

It also became clear that the vaccines don’t really do what a person might expect a vaccine to do. They do tend to stop severe illness, but taking vitamin D in advance would provide pretty much the same benefit. They don’t stop COVID-19 from circulating because vaccinated people can still catch COVID-19. The vaccines seem to have any number of side effects, including raising the risk of heart attacks.

The historical period most similar to the current period, in terms of shortage of energy supply, is that between World War I and World War II. At that time, the Jews were persecuted. Now, there is an attempt to divide the world into Vaccinated and Unvaccinated, with the Unvaccinated persecuted. When the economy cannot produce enough goods and services for all members of the economy, the economy seems to divide into almost warring parts.

We are basically trying to deal with an energy scenario that looks a lot like Figure 8, and the self-organizing economy comes up with very strange solutions. If people can convince themselves that it is OK to ostracize the unvaccinated, then maybe the move down the collapse will go more smoothly. For example, the military can be cut back in size by dismissing the unvaccinated, without admitting that with current resources, there is a need to reduce the size of the military.

Europe is the part of the world where the push for vaccinations is now highest. It is also in terrible shape with respect to energy supply. By ostracizing the unvaccinated, European countries can attempt to cut back their economies to the size that their energy supply will support, without admitting the real problem.

[10] The world economy is increasingly acting like economies that have collapsed in the past. In fact, there seems to be a connection with some of the strange statements from the book of Revelation.

We are living in a world now in which even if there are temporary price spikes, there is little chance that fossil fuel providers will ramp up their production. In order to ramp up supplies, they would need to start several years in advance, preparing new fields. Oil, coal and gas prices have stayed so low, for so long, that there is no belief that prices can rise to a high enough level and stay there, as the fuels are extracted. Thus, the fossil fuel will stay in the ground.

At the same time, it is becoming increasingly clear that renewables cannot be depended upon. In fact, low generation of electricity by wind turbines is part of the reason Europe is having to import the large quantity of natural gas and coal supplies it now requires. There is concern that rolling blackouts may be necessary during the winter in Europe, if not this year, sometime in the next few years.

It is becoming increasingly clear that the future energy scenario will look something like Figure 8, causing world population to fall dramatically within the next thirty years. This is the kind of situation most of us would associate with collapse. I think of it as being equivalent to end times, since our modern civilization will be disappearing. It is possible that there will be a remnant of people left, but they will be living a much simpler life, without fossil fuels or modern renewables.

There are several parts to what is happening that remind me of Old Testament writings in general, and of the book of Revelation (from the New Testament), in particular.

First, the willingness of the ultra-rich to look out for themselves and keep what look like perfectly good, cheap cures for COVID-19 from the world population seems to be precisely the kind of despicable behavior that Old Testament prophets despised. For example, in Amos 5:21-24, Amos tells the Jews that God despises their prior behavior. In verse 24 (NIV), he says, “But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!”

As I noted in the introduction, Revelation 18 talks about lack of demand being an issue in the collapse of Babylon, and presumably in any future collapse that occurs. Revelation 18:11-13 reads:

11 The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore— 12 cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble;13 cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and human beings sold as slaves.

The need for vaccine passports in some countries reminds a person of Revelation 13:17, “they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.” In fact, people in Sweden are getting microchip implants after its latest COVID passport mandate.

Some people believe that Revelation 12 describes the Antichrist; that is, the polar opposite of Christ. Before the world comes to an end, Revelation 12 seems to predict a great fight against this Antichrist, which Christ wins. I could imagine Anthony Fauci being the Antichrist.

We are not used to living in a world where very little that is published by the Mainstream Media makes sense. But when we live in a time where no one wants to hear what is true, the system changes in a bizarre way, so that a great deal that is published is false.

It is disturbing to think that we may be living near the end of the world economy, but there is an upside to this situation. We have had the opportunity to live at a time with more conveniences than any other civilization. We can appreciate the many conveniences we have.

We also have the opportunity to decide how we want to live the rest of our lives. We have been led for many years down the path of believing that economic growth will last forever; all we need to do is have faith in the government and our educational institutions. If we figure out that this really isn’t the path to follow, we can change course now. If we want to choose a more spiritual approach, this is a choice we can still make.

About Gail Tverberg

My name is Gail Tverberg. I am an actuary interested in finite world issues - oil depletion, natural gas depletion, water shortages, and climate change. Oil limits look very different from what most expect, with high prices leading to recession, and low prices leading to financial problems for oil producers and for oil exporting countries. We are really dealing with a physics problem that affects many parts of the economy at once, including wages and the financial system. I try to look at the overall problem.
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6,123 Responses to Is it possible that the world is approaching end times?

  1. Michael Le Merchant says:

    Look at this “mom”. She is happy to inject her kid with an experimental product made by Big Pharma so she can post a selfie online for brownie points from her soccer mom friends. The government and media propaganda got her.

    • Fast Eddy says:

      This is exactly what I am referring to when I read with glee about another child going down with a vaccine injury.

      The moment post vax when they notice something is wrong and their child is permanently damaged is a precious one… I wish I could be there to share it… and laugh and this MOREONS…

      There now — see what you did you duuumb bit ch? Are you happy now? You’ve f789ed your kid up real good… then I’d hand her the noose and whisper in her ear ‘do the right thing… hang the child first to put it out of its misery… then finish yourself off — because if you do not you will live your life with a bottle in your hand and a fist-full of xanax to get you through your guilt-ridden days’

      M Fast knows someone who is injecting their 12 yr old shortly — and she says she has no problem with boosters every 3 months….

      • Bobby says:

        Sure! just being honest? It’s a rear thing in today’s world!

        I have a sardonic humour myself at times, however Schadenfreude is not helpful and not funny even as an attempt to wake people up or express frustration or emphasize moronic behaviour…everything has consequences. Soon these treatments may be administered at schools (in lollipop form) without parental consent..What then? Will that just be good entertainment too …if so might backfire for you.. just saying

  2. Michael Le Merchant says:

    Warning from Austria: Up to 1 year in prison if you don’t vaccinate. You have to pay the cost of your own detention. Prisoners are to be held in custody rooms, which are separate from prisoners.

    All details about the law against vaccination opponents: Up to one year in prison
    The fine is now milder at € 2,000 (instead of € 7,200), but the amendment to the law against anti-vaccination opponents is explosive in terms of democratic politics: In Austria, vaccination critics face a year of custody in the future. The amendment already passed the parliamentary committee. There should be separate detention rooms for the vaccination critics, and the costs for food will be charged to “the obligated”.

    • Fast Eddy says:

      Bolivia beckons… I am holding 4 seats on what will be one of the final commercial flights out of Saigon for the unvaxxed final week Jan… Need to go to Dubai then Spain then La Paz… after that the only option will be (maybe) private… if that is not possible then we go with the hack saw escape

      • The sale of property in Donkeyface paradise is handled by whom, RE agent? Or it does not matter in the great scheme of things..

        • Fast Eddy says:

          That’s definitely a consideration … M Fast would not want to sell because that would destroy all hope of the future… so would have to organize someone to house sit…

          Bolivia is the nuclear option – however if we see Austria actually do this … and Donkey gives the slightest whiff of this coming to NZ … you gotta push that button. Don’t want to wait till the water is boiling

          • I’m starting this conversation angle – because there are also “fast panic” scenarios cascading very quickly, say in next 7months certain type of RE dives down brutally, dozens of percent.. perhaps even ~50-70%

            Sort of combo of surviving middle upper classes and up looking for very different segment boltholes -suddenly leveraging notable market overhang caused also from depop trends (informally acknowledged then).

            But it most likely pans out slower..

          • Ed says:

            Why Bolivia? I have been looking at Ecuador. Funny thing they have water issues. They used to have a melting glacier that supplied water for part of the country but it is now all gone. Much of the country is rainy six months of the year but no system of reservoirs and aqueducts yet.

    • cassandraclub says:

      What, no camps for the unvaxxed?

    • Slow Paul says:

      Got to protect the vaxxinated criminals from the lesser unvaxxed vermin.

  3. It will probably lead to the elminaition of nonwhites from any kind of discourse, though The nonwhites did not build the modern world, and so they will be exlcuded.

  4. No it is not.

    It will just shed enough peop,e, maybe 80-85% of , and continue on.


    A most excellent piece of high art w/ a lovely poem to accompany

    If wasnt so tragic would be funny

  6. Rock says:

    In the spring of 2008 a gentleman told a prominent talk show host oil will go to $150/bbl in the summer. It sounded so crazy other talk show hosts would not have him on. Everyone thought he had a screw loose.

    That summer it did.

    That same summer, while oil was at its highest price ever, the same gentleman was hailed as a profit and was invited back to speak. He said before winter oil would go to $35/bbl. Everyone thought he was bonafide crazy. The economy was going great.

    That fall oil hit $25/bbl.

    The whole talk show circuit invited that gentleman back and hailed him as a profit. But he flatly rejected the calls he was a profit.


    Certain people in oil told him, that was what they were going to do to the price of oil, and that he can tell the public.

    In the 1970’s a different gentleman predicted the peak price of gold, exactly to the day. Check his mothers family name and history. He was put in charge of winding down the Hunt family silver hoard.

    Two of the most significant value chain price manipulations told in advance with remarkable accuracy.

    This is why most simulations, models, and predictions don’t work.

    George Carlin told everyone on stage decades ago: it’s a big club and you ain’t in it.

  7. MG says:

    Great Britain with its old uninsulated houses is not prepared for the inevitability of the heat pumps:

  8. Somebodyy says:

    Gail – when will you learn, that useful work is important, not energy? Untill you do, you will spawn these articles untill your end.

    • Energy is a necessary input to useful work. For useful work, additional inputs are required as well. Fresh water is one such input. Adequate topsoil is another input. Metal ores are required inputs. Reasonable temperature is another requirement. Correct time of day and time of year are important as well.

      Energy is only part of a bigger system. Useful work can be defined as the most important item. Hunters and gathers can do useful work, picking fruit off trees and catching fish. But first there needs to be an overall system that grows sufficient food for them to hunt and gather. Humans require at least part of their food to be cooked (with perhaps a few small exceptions). Hunter gathers learned to control fire, in order to be able to cook their food, scare away wild animals, and make better tools (sharper stone implements).

      Our problem, as population has grown, is that there is not enough biomass to burn for all of our needs.

    • er—i might have missed a critical point here, but i thought ‘doing useful work’ needed energy?

      if you still don’t ‘get it’, try walking 20 miles, or digging over a patch of ground without food intake.

    • Tim Groves says:

      I think this is a distinction that’s worth bearing in mind. While energy is a requirement for doing useful work, there is also another requirement: that the work itself be useful.

      So, we should be asking, how much of the work people do is useful and how much is useless? That’s a debate with endless opportunities for casuistry and hair-splitting right there.

      But if we can identify the useful and the useless work and separate them and stop doing the useless work, our available energy should go a lot farther.

      Then another batch of questions includes, can the economic system survive on useful work alone? What is a good balance between useful and useless energy? If we define the rich or the poor as useless and eat them, would this be beneficial or detrimental to or medium- and long-term health as a species?

      • Tim Groves says:

        That line should have read: What is a good balance between useful and useless work?

      • Halfvard says:

        Jevon’s “Paradox” would seem to invalidate this difference between “useful work” and “useless work” as long as there’s still energy flux though the Dissipative Structure to support the current level of complexity.

        The phrase “useful work” belies the real operation of a complex system and is weirdly Marxian. For example, in a traditional society does a priest do “useful work”? As an example, human history shows us that in any society beyond the complexity of a HG band priests are there but are “useless eaters” in a Neoliberal or Marxian material-economic sociology.

        • Fast Eddy says:


          norm… how do you feel about playing a role in creating MOREONIC Mutant…

          Is it a coincidence that FE has a penchant for referring to most people as MOREONS… and the Final Solution … is a rearrangement of that term.

          Do you now see what Fast Eddy is? Why HE is here…. HE is the Messiah… you still have a slight window of opportunity to get on The Team…

          (I’m actually beginning to seriously believe that may be true… surely there is a seat on the bus given all the time I have contributed to this project)

        • Tim Groves says:

          Good points! Jevon’s paradox is only a paradox because nobody defines “useful work” and “useless eaters” and forces the rest of us to restrain ourselves from being involved with the latter as friends or enablers or in “un-useful work” either as a consumer, a producer or a broker. Once a suitable system of coercion is in place, the system will function adequately on less fuel than a comparable laissez-faire system, although the arrangement would only be temporary as all things must pass.

          My Exhibit A would be North Korea. Their energy use per capita was 475.35 kg of oil equivalent in 2014.

          Compare this with neighboring South Korea. Their energy use per capita was 5,413.35 kg of oil equivalent in 2015. That’s over eleven times as much energy used per person.

          Obviously, much of South Korea’s energy consumption is being wasted on “un-useful work” for “useless eaters”.

          By the way, the US, Canada and Australia all have higher energy use per capita than South Korea does, but France, Germany and Japan have lower use and the UK uses only half as much—2,764.52 kg of oil equivalent in 2015.

          The UK now ranks alongside China in this metric and is well on the way to emulating North Korean levels of making all work useful work. So well done, Brits!

  9. Michael Le Merchant says:


  10. Michael Le Merchant says:

    How I Beat COVID-19 in 48 Hours with Ivermectin, Just Like Joe Rogan and NFL Quarterback Aaron Rodgers

  11. Michael Le Merchant says:

    NEW ZEALAND: Apartheid Has Begun

    On 3 December, NZ officially became an apartheid nation. Those who have chosen not to be double jabbed have been shut out of society. Apart from being able to access food, health care, petrol and pharmacies, hard working Kiwi’s are being denied entry to all other public areas of society.

    On the eve of this new Traffic Light System, Counterspin Media was at Texas Tea Bar & Grill, Picton, NZ, enjoying a last supper with a group of freedom loving friends.

    We spoke with Lisa Wakeford about how she was feeling, having already lost her job and now having lost her ability to go out socially to any establishment or even to get her hair cut.

    Sheryl, a Texas Tea employee, was heartbroken about the fact she was loosing her job due the new rules and was still unable to go and visit her daughter in Melbourne, Australia, who needed her support as she is in an abusive relationship.

    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is fast loosing popularity as these draconian laws are dividing NZ society and is hitting people hard.

    • drb says:

      I hope they are not thinking they will get to vote her out of office.

    • Adam says:

      This has been the Situation in NS, Canada for months now. I have been restricted from public life, ignored by all levels of government, now I’m not working. We have been FAT and happy for far too long.

      • Sorry, to come in front of you as pompous smart as..xx.. stranger, but the off urban (beyond rural) opportunities in Canada are just enormous, if possible get there before many (stampede eventually) of the friends south of the border move up to grab it.

    • Fast Eddy says:

      I don’t mind the segregation … it makes it easy to avoid MOREONS.

      Was at a gathering on Saturday — the one where the CovIDIOT told me anyone without a jab should pay their bill if they end up in hospital with covid — and a CovIDIOT who seemed to think Fast Eddy is a really fun guy was inviting FE and M Fast to meet up the next day with some of the other CovIDIOTS at the gathering at a pub…

      Fast was like oh ya that sounds great – we should be able to make it .. then as we were leaving he said hey Fast 3pm tomorrow — yes of course… this was the same guy who I meet through a friend a few weeks earlier who was fearful of the Aucklanders being let loose on Dec 15… even though he and his wife are triple Pfizered or as I like to say Triple F’789ed.

      He must have been severely disappointed that Fast instead hopped on his mountain bike and did a 3 hour ride instead of attending the pub…. but his disappointment would have been short-lived when a mate told him I’d had to skip due to apartheid… he will no doubt believe he Dodged a Bullet … (even though he is Tripled)

      New lingo being spoken by the CovIDIOTs… hey man… have you Doubled Up yet… ya dude I got me second last week… oh cool… I’m Tripling in a week… oh ya? ya… well dude… I am trying to push my Tripler forward a bit … the popup clinic at the supermarket said just wait till next weekend and we’ll do you … oh wicked man… ya … and I am getting her to dose me up with a bit extra… ya that makes sense — with this omicrom thing floating around… ya – hopefully the Quadrupler will be available before Christmas… F789 ya… the Quadrupler rules man!

  12. Herbie R Ficklestein says:

    Caught my eye 👁️…

    Sun, December 5, 2021, 6:00 AM
    TEJON RANCH, CA AUGUST 06, 2018: The oak studded mountain tops of the Blue Ridge Range of Tejon Ranch; a small portion of the 90% of protected area of Tejon Ranch set aside for permanent preservation in exchange for environmental group promise not to oppose development. At stake is the 12,000 acre proposed master planned community named Centennial on the flat grassland of the ranch off Highway 138, if approved, would bring in up to 19,333 residences, a mix of single-family, multi-family and apartment units, with a business park and open space around their periphery. (Al Seib / Los Angeles Times)
    The oak-studded mountains of Tejon Ranch sit near where the nearly 20,000-home Centennial development will be built in the far north of Los Angeles County. (Los Angeles Times)

    LA Times .com
    To the editor: We all know California is in a severe drought, and soon we will surely have to make mandatory cutbacks in water use. The California Department of Water Resources, according to one of your recent articles, has just issued a “0% water allocation, a milestone that reflects the dire conditions in California.”

    Yet now we are to welcome the development of nearly 20,000 homes in the brand-new Centennial community at Tejon Ranch in the far northwest portion of Los Angeles County?

    Even as the developer claims Centennial will be a “net-zero” emissions community designed to “combat global warming,” where will this community get its water? Again, aren’t we in an ongoing and severe drought? And don’t we all think there are just too many people in California at this point?

    Endless growth and entire new communities cannot be the answer when water resources are becoming more and more scarce. Until we have established new ways to collect water during storms, created more reservoirs, and expedited desalination plants, it’s the height of irresponsibility to build a new huge community in Southern California, no matter how “net-zero emissions” the developer claims it will be.

    Sandy Johnson..Woodland Hills

    Here in South Florida, experiencing the same and in my city there are numerous High Rise, Apartment projects spouting up all over the town. One developer even purchased several single family properties and will demolish them to create a dream residential community on the waterfront intercoastal way!
    Nevermind when the Kings tide, as we call it, comes the streets flood and portable pumps are called in to keep it at bay.
    It’s the cash and grab mentality. Same happened in the subprime loan mortgage crisis. The Banks and others knew what they were doing to enrich themselves, didn’t care. Saw easy money took it and let the public pay….
    As in the movie “Margin Call” the actor Jeremy Irons laments “We just can’t help ourselves”..
    !maybe 🤔 the higher power will?🙄I doubt it

  13. CTG says:

    Mike Robert’s… this is a repeat post since you said you did not see my questions. Here it is. It is the main thread. Plesse answer them. Thank you.

    Mike – explain to me why you believe the peer-reviewed studies so much that you believe them 100% without any questions asked? I have a lot of experience where I was told to “follow” what others have written without questioning it.

    I asked my supervisor “What if the study was wrong?” He shrugged and said “just follow them”.

    Since then, I have no trust in this “peer-reviewed” papers unless it is easily proven by mathematics. Any studies related to “data collection”, “economics” or any subjects that are just “words”, I never believe any of them.

    Tell me what is your experience. Real life experience that you have gone through that dictate to you that you have to believe all peer-reviewed papers 100% without any questions asked.

    Tell me something about yourself. Which country you are in? What is your job if you had one before? What is your qualifications?

    Tell us something that shows you are a human. Something with emotion like laughter, sadness, sympathy or any experience that you have encountered like your friends, colleagues having vaccine issues or died from COVID or anything related to human emotion or sarcasm. I hope it is not too tall an order.

  14. CTG says:

    When investors read the link above, does it strike them that something fishy is happening and have to be cautious or they are “there is no harm in getting vaccinated in order to fit in with the governmental views and be able to get around more easily than the unvaccinated.”

    • Ed says:

      What I got from listening to Elon talk: he expects an up coming liquidity squeeze and he fears Sapcex will not have its Starlink revenue flow in place in time. This cash will allow him to weather the storm.

    • Fast Eddy says:

      Who wouldn’t agree to inject themselves with an untested ‘vaccine’… to get around?

      Everyone wants to get around… there are pie shops with hot chicken pies to be had if you can get around… there are sports events with moreons on steroids to watch… then there is that promise of freedom to travel that is always a couple of months away and never after the second jab…

      I’d poison myself too to get around … IF I was a MOREON. It’s the thing that MOREONS do..

      + there is the need for MOREONS to fit in with the other MOREONS… you don’t want to rock the boat — it might tip over and MOREONS can’t swim… so you get injected just so you can put up a selfie and proclaim I Am on Team MOREON.

      Michael – please deliver us some video and stories of CovIDIOTS being damaged….

  15. Kurt says:

    The End Times are always two years and 10,000 FE comments away.

    • We are already in the end times. This is why Mainstream Media is publishing such a distorted view of things.

      • CTG says:

        Gail is a realist. She changes when the environment changes. I remembered that she was not really into collapse just a a few years ago. Yes the data shows that it is going to hit the wall but she held out on timing and look forward to better times (hopefully). But then the situation now does not warrant time and for me personally, I see no way out of this mess. That is why it is called a predicament.

        It is like an asteroid hitting earth. The fact that you inform the population 10 weeks early would have caused instant collapse because we are all connected. The truck drivers decide not to work and spend time with his family and the the pilots quit their job to spend the last days with family. Within 2 weeks, the entire system would have collapsed and everyone is dead and the asteroid missed earth.

        Even Tim Morgan says the same time (someone posted this link here before. Hat tip to him)

    • CTG says:

      End times for olden civilization dragged on for years because they are not connected and they can live their own lives. End times already started for the Iraqis in the first Gulf War in early 1990s. The Syrians about 1 decade ago. The unvaccinated Austrians just a couple of weeks ago (unless they overthrow the government).

      The problem for me is that I am a realist. Realist are fluid and will change when the situation change. I don’t cling to old dogmas, outdated concepts and ideas. I change when the situation change. What happened last time, does not mean that it will happen exactly the same like last time.

      Again like broken record which I have posted here so many times that the regulars are probably tired of what I have said.

      The government changed the rules, moved the goal posts and controlled the media. Were were to follow the investigative reporting in 1960s-1970s; were we using the old accounting rules like mark to market instead of mark to model; were we to engage in health discussion without any censorship; we would have collapsed a long time ago.

      The very fact that the government is doing all is is to postpone collapse. It does not mean that if a person is wrong the first time, he will be wrong forever.

      Normalcy bias and perhaps some cognitive dissonance are strong. However, it seems to me, they are waning in developed countries.

      • Good post, in lieu how Gail listed the age of notable personalities in ~energy collapse studies~ some had been on it for ~50yrs already.

        In my non scholarly case almost two decades of various intensities, and winding tangents.. but the general trend as well as the tricks used to postpone it as you mentioned are getting very visible and more desperate, it’s a pattern.

        Until recently I was very partial for sort of 2025-27 type of more serious threshold for IC and it’s immediate periphery entering irreversible phase (step) change. Now, this seems a bit ridiculously optimistic – naive.. given the events spooling up on all continents concurrently..

      • Fast Eddy says:

        One of the reasons that some of us expected collapse earlier is exactly as you point out — if the old rules were applied e.g. TBTF zombified companies would fail rather than be propped up with trillions of dollars of new loans just to allow them to service the interest on the old ones and fund operations …. this shit show would be rusting at the bottom of the ocean by now

        There are countless examples of unprecedented measures… but as we were discussing in 2018/19 … there were signals that they were running out of bullets… for instance…no matter what they did cars sales were tanking …

        We also became aware of the issues with shale….

        Then it became obvious that the crisis was entering a dangerous phase… then Covid arrived.

        It does not take a crystal ball to see that this was throwing in the towel on BAU… the fight was over.

        Now we are just waiting for BAU to die…

        I think I’ll start to dig my grave tomorrow — when the time comes I will just crawl into it and die.

  16. Mirror on the wall says:

    A welcome reprieve from insane human dramas, constructs and imaginations? Plankton made possible the formation of mountain ranges. Piles of rock have a welcome ‘no nonsense’ reality to them?

    It seems obvious that ‘concerns’ about global warming are inevitably anthropocentric, and that all human ‘values’ reflect human instincts and perspectives. A completely ‘dead’ planet would be just as ‘valid’ as a living one – but that too is obviously a human perspective.

    Perhaps the long-term ‘end purpose’ of life is to form mountains of rock? It is obviously all ‘meaningless’ – which is a relief?

    > Hot news from two billion years ago: plankton actually moved mountains

    The mighty forces that created our planet’s mountains in ancient days got some unexpected help, scientists have discovered. Their research shows some of Earth’s greatest ranges got a boost from primitive lifeforms whose remains lubricated movements of rock slabs and allowed them to pile up to form mountains.

    If it had not been for life on Earth, the surface of our planet would have been flatter and a lot more boring, say scientists at Aberdeen and Glasgow universities where the research was carried out.

    “Mountains are formed by slabs of rock piling up on each other,” said lead author Professor John Parnell of Aberdeen University.

    “But piling on that scale would have been impossible because of the friction between the rocks. Something had to help those rocks slide over each other.”

    Parnell and his colleagues have discovered that the source of this lubrication came from an explosion in the growth of primitive plankton around two billion years ago. This took place in the wake of a major climatic change that affected Earth and had a lasting effect on its surface.

    Plankton are microscopic plants that lie at the base of the marine food chain and are vital to the health of ocean life today. Their role in influencing our planet was even greater two billion years ago, however. “They sank quickly when they died and were buried to make a rock with unprecedented amounts of carbon, which was turned into graphite by heat and pressure,” said Parnell.

    “Graphite makes a great lubricant. Locks, hinges and zips all move more easily with graphite, and so do rocks,” he added.

    “Two billion years ago, it lubricated the piling up of mountain ranges. Tectonic plates caused rocks to push together, and the graphite laid down by plankton let those slabs slide over each other and build higher and higher piles. The end results were mountain ranges.” ….

  17. CTG says:

    I can only saw “wow!”

    FDA/CDC whistleblower wanted: Name your price

    • CTG says:

      Steve Kirsch was the same guy who offered $5m to Newsom to come clean on what happened to him. Where is Newsom by the way?

    • Tim Groves says:

      In case that doesn’t come out, Right Said Fred says that Jacinda had a net worth of $800,000 last November and $25 million now. Her salary is $470,000. So where the expletive is all this money coming from?

      My guess is she isn’t streetwalking but I suppose she could be a very highly paid model.

  18. Gail, just a note (with less atrocious spelling than some of my more impulsive comments earlier on) to thank you for this excellent and comprehensive (yet concise) analysis of the situation and for your measured and balanced approach, also bringing in the spiritual side of things, which I beleive will increasingly be necessary as we go forward.

    Currently, the global response to the virus is a huge distraction and is majorly disruptive and is causing confusion and turmoil – it saps a lot of energy that people would have been able to channel into preparing for the economic and resource decline. This aspect of the overall transition will hopefully resolve itself during the next 2 to 5 years (as per the Bible the Tribulation period lasts 7 and a half years and we will be 2 years into it in March of next year – if we start to count from when the virus appeared), but it’s not clear yet how much more chaos will be caused by all of this, but probably a lot.

    Besides all of that, practical ways and methods for riding the decline is probably something we should all be seriously thinking about. Some people are of the view that one should get out of cities while others are of the view that smaller cities should not be written off depending on how competent and organized their municipalities are in dealing with crises. My view is that small towns located near to farming communities would be the best bet for people who are not farmers themselves or who don’t see themselves adapting to rural living.

    • PS: Regards considerations for adapting to the decline, I can recommend this writer who’s at the forefront of prepping for it by already living it – excerpt of his latest post with link below:

      “City, rural, suburban, and wilderness will greatly influence how collapse proceeds. The networking of strong or weak communities likewise are a variable. The geography of collapse is a critical element. Desert, mountain, swamp, lowlands all have a collapse character. The temperature of a location is a critical element. Mild conditions year around naturally offer advantages and bitter cold or extreme heat challenges because energy and food will no longer be a global commodity. Water is a profoundly critical benchmark. The world is now moving water around with large energy inputs that no longer will be available. Population densities and consumption profiles rank high and generally will favor low densities with low consumption.

      Some high population densities but low consumption profiles may fare better than low population high consumption. This has a ratio where the combination of the two have a sweeter spot and the divergence an increasing risk. Social capital is of great importance. Populations that have cohesive populations with good behavior will naturally fare better. Multicultural or homogenous will have a risk factor. In those places where a healthy consumption allows multicultural stability there will be problems when affluence drops. Homogenous populations will likely fare better generally but this can also allow bad group think and lack of diversity of action. Luck is a huge variable. Collapse is a gamble where some odds are known but overall most of the population is conned into believing they will win when the house is always favored.”

    • Fast Eddy says:

      Hahaha… seriously?

      • Yeah. Seriously.

        • Fast Eddy says:

          You had the opportunity to walk that back… I gave you the chance to rethink it and respond with an ‘s’ for sarc… or a smiley face…

          But nope… and now look at you … The Core is thinking… who is this ridiculous person?

          • Ha! As if I owe you some kind of response just because Gail gives you free reign to comment even on replies directed specifially to her personally. I suppose you don’t get much attention at home.

            • lol eddy

              somebody else has sussed this is your only audience

            • machival66 says:

              Friend, you may be new here and you probably don’t know this but please understand that the person who comnents as Fast Eddy is a disabled person and writing comnents here gives him a bif of comfort in an otherwise totally failed life. Please be more compassionate. We need to show kindness to the handicapped people in our community. Thanks.

            • Machival, all people are handicapped in some way or another. Fast Eddy is obviously quite capable of speaking for himself. He dishes it out all the time, and he seems to take it back quite well too. I don’t feel ‘sorry’ for him (I very much doubt he would want me to) and neither do I expect him to feel ‘sorry’ for me. We are all adults here quite capable of adult debate. Thank you for your concern.

            • Fast Eddy says:

              I can see why MOREONS would feel sorry for Fast Eddy… unlike them HE has only a handful of friends… and the 1500HP IQ can be a bit of a burden at times… creating frustration when having to endure the stooopidity of the MOREONS…

              But don’t fret over Fast Eddy… generally HE turns this into a positive… the MOREONS make FE’s life fun… HE quite enjoys ridiculing them … and as we can see they haven’t an ounce of intelligence or creativity … they respond by calling HIM what they are…. mentally challenged im be ciles…

              Then they band together and laugh amongst themselves at their feeble attempt at humour… thinking they have best Fast Eddy.

              You see… this is what MOREONS do… and they don’t even know they are stooopid… and that is rather amusing ….

              Then of course when they are done having their little MOREON laugh… they go and get another booster.

              hahahahahaahahahahaha… now THAT is … funny.

              Oh and they murder their babies by the thousands hahahahaaha…


              Question – if a MOREON pumps out a hunk of dead grey meat … are the other MOREONS still willing to …’get with that female MOREON’… it’s kind of disgusting no? How do you .. perform… knowing that rotting meat was squeezed out of there?


              I wonder how many more brain dead and otherwise damaged MOREONS there are who will be incapable of speech because their mothers injected them…. hahahahahahaah

              Not laughing now are ya? Of course you are… 1 in 2 of you could die from the poison … and that would be ok — because Covid is more deadly – right?

  19. Fast Eddy says:

    I always wonder when this happens… if the kid was retaliating for bullying

    • Very well could have

      My youngest son socially inept/introverted had difficulty w/ bullies in Public school 3rd 4th grade that school not managing well. Fortunately Florida had instituted a program of funding (“scholarships”) for autistic/special needs to attend private schools (that way they didnt have to deal with them or the additonal expense.) My ex (trained as social worker) managed the system to get him “diagnosed” as Aspergers (which he may well be if you want to label him) and thus qualified him for State funding toward private schooling (at a lower amount than the avg public school per capita cost and significantly less than what spent on “special needs” public school student.)

      Over the first week after he was moved to the private school, another student provoked/bullied my 10 yo son. Apparently with out warning at lunch one day the other student provoked my son one time too many and suddenly found himself with my son holding a plastic picnic/lunch knife at his throat. Luckily no one was injured and they were separated.

      Now if he was in most Public Schools in US there is no doubt that my son would have reflexively been the focus of attention with suspension assured, expulsion possible, and takedown and/or arrest by an on-site “Resource” officer (sheriff/prison guard) not outside the realm of possible

      Luckily the private school was run by progressively minded but pragmatic older couple with many years of experience with children – they patiently determined the facts of the situation and while not excusing my son for his inappropriate action ended up suspending the bully while limiting remedial actions for my son to in-school disciplinary supervision.
      For the rest of his 7 years through a normal High School academic curriculum at the school there were no further incidents and his interactions with others were generally within social bounds/expectations and a happy experience.

      Fitting the educational experience/resources to the need of the child rather than child to the needs of a one-size fits all educational factory need not take more funding or exotic facilites – just thoughtful and experienced educators working in interest of child rather than their own or systems “interests”

  20. Herbie R Ficklestein says:

    Thirty years after Ukraine gained independence from the Soviet Union, it lacks a functioning waste management system and requisite resources to tackle a garbage crisis that is perpetuating public health and ecological concerns.

    The president’s office concedes that most landfills are overflowing and fall short of safety standards. It estimates some 33,000 illegal dumps have proliferated throughout the country.

    “It’s not a secret to anyone that Ukraine is drowning in garbage. And every day, every minute the situation is getting worse,” then-deputy head of the presidency, Yulia Svyrydenko, warned in September.

    She made the comments at a meeting of local and regional officials after President Volodymyr Zelensky voiced concerns. But the problem has much wider ramifications.

    To address the problem, Kiev introduced a law in 2018 requiring households to sort waste to aid recycling efforts.

    The order has largely been ignored and just four percent of the approximately 10 million tonnes of household trash produced annually is sorted, according to the presidency.

    Added to that, there is only one waste incinerator — dating from the Soviet period — to serve the entire country of 40 million. It lacks capacity to handle waste even from Kiev.

    The crux of the problem is that Ukrainian authorities are either unwilling or unable to pay more to better process garbage, analysts said.

    Kiev shells out less than 10 euros ($11) to process a ton of waste compared to 100-170 euros in Western European countries, explained Svyatoslav Pavlyuk, executive director of the Ukrainian Association of Energy-Efficient Cities.

    ‘It’s scary’

    “This sum isn’t enough to actually treat waste. It only covers its transportation to a field and its placement in the ground,” Pavlyuk said.

    Yevgeniya Aratovska, a 42-year-old economist, took matters into her own hands six years ago, launching a small sorting site in Kiev called No Waste Ukraine.

    “I realised that a lot of people didn’t even know that it’s necessary to sort,” Aratovska said.

    Think this is a silent crisis🙈 we folks in BAU land ignore or just don’t care.
    Very true we just make and dispose of stuff.
    Back in the 1970s the eco- Economist, Barry Commoner., warned of this problem, but fell on deaf ears…like so many others we face today.
    BAU does not like to be poked at.the show must go🤣❤️🎪on

    • Ed says:

      Sorting made sense when China was willing to take plastics but now that they have stopped what is the point of sorting? Ukraine can make a pile in one field of glass, in second of metal, in third of plastic, in fourth of paper, in fifth of organics, in sixth of other?

      • Herbie R Ficklestein says:

        Sure, So can “We”😜.
        BTW, there was an article centering on the Plastic Industry and their claim of recycling. For my memory of internal documents, they knew full well that the recycling for all practical purposes was bogus…it was all greenwashing

  21. Genomir says:

    Dr Tim Mirgan latest article. Bot sure if anyone has posted it so Here You Are:

    ‘When and how can we know that a change of direction is fundamental and lasting, rather than a temporary departure from established trends?’

    • Fast Eddy says:

      In the science of materials, it’s observable that fractures happen quickly, even if the stresses that cause them have accumulated over a protracted period. We can spend hours, days, weeks or even years gradually increasing the tension applied to an iron bar, but the ensuing snap in that bar will happen almost instantaneously.

    • Fast Eddy says:

      That is an excellent article.

    • ssincoski says:

      Excellent article. Thanks for the link.

  22. Fast Eddy says:

    Well… I suppose this is the price one pays for being stupid and trusting the government and MSM

    Who in their right mind experiments on their unborn child with a substance that has been in existence for barely a year

    Keep in mind the mothers injecting will be Extreme CovIDIOTS – they will have taken the hook deep and hard. You’d have to to sign up your child for this insanity.

    So they are more than likely to be the ones posting proud vax-selfies on FB and Vax Shaming anyone who rejects this garbage.

    Popping out a hunk of dead grey meat is rather vicious karma.

    • Ed says:

      evolution in action

      • Fast Eddy says:

        I remain hopeful that the whole covid this is about cleansing the human gene pool to remove the MOREONS…

        This is why people need Hold the Line.

        All of these tricks to try to convince people to get the injections may just be tests…

        They hacked off the Super Moreons very early … then they are whittling down the semi – MOREONS … eventually they will be left with only the ultra resistant … the clear thinkers… the few rational ones… the ones who will use a hack saw and take a real bullet before they accept this garbage.

        Hold the Line. Keep the Faith. For we are the chosen ones.

        • Not sure about that.

          For the moment the early prelim stats show like ~6% death rate and perhaps upto ~20% mid longer term serious health effects.

          And that translates more into scenario of ~mere intentional reset vehicle into different [ fin / societal / energy density.. ] framework aka “de-growth microBAU plantation”.

          We are all watching together how it evolves.


          On the other hand some of the recent desperate? escapades of Brandonistas also allow for expecting the scenario of very abrupt and volatile discontinuity – shock emanating from the US outwards very soon, say Q1-2 2022. Very doubtful to be tamed by some elite faction pre-planning and such, apart from some oligarchs pushing for hard enclosure of Europe first, which only then perhaps starts making more sense in that light.

  23. Fast Eddy says:

    28X increase in stillbirths in multiple parts of Canada

    But get this… it’s only happening to vaccinated moms. I wonder what is causing this? Nobody has a clue.

    GREAT!!!! Imagine giving birth to a hunk of dead meat? It would like giving birth and out popped norm’s brain


    • vbaker says:

      Kirsh…. he is moving into the champion category. This is for Canadians in particular, and especially for BC.

      Ive been using this example to friends and others who just cant get their head around what is happening. Lions Gate Hospital (North Vancouver) had a melt down in maternity a couple weeks ago. The staff we inconsolable apparently. 13 stillbirths in one night. Evidently a bad lot was pushed to pregnant women earlier that day.

      I suspect the reason for this is was what Dr Noack was ostensibly killed for questioning. “Why is there graphene hydroxide in most vials?” It turns out that the hydroxide version of this chemical is also an acid. Your internals just get slice up… especially if you have a very high heart rate… such as athletes tend to have… or… unborn babies.

      Graphene Presence – PhD Mr. Pablo Campra – Current Professor at Universidad de Almería, Spain

      Because I dont have researcher credentials, I managed to find the paper on another site. Well, its real. Its horrific.

      RAMAN infrared spectroscopy

      Dr Campra’s summary, in his words.

      We present here our research on the presence of graphene in covid vaccines. We have carried out a random screening of graphene-like nanoparticles visible at the optical microscopy in seven random samples of vials from four different trademarks, coupling images with their spectral signatures of RAMAN vibration.

      By this technique, called micro-RAMAN, we have been able to determine the presence of graphene in these samples, after screening more than 110 objects selected for their graphene-like appearance under optical microscopy. Out of them, a group of 28 objects have been selected, due to the compatibility of both images and spectra with the presence of graphene derivatives, based on the correspondence of these signals with those obtained from standards and scientific literature. The identification of graphene oxide structures can be regarded as conclusive in 8 of them, due to the high spectral correlation with the standard. In the remaining 20 objects, images coupled with Raman signals show a very high level of compatibility with undetermined graphene

      Therefore, we can affirm with a high level of confidence that the identification of graphene material in all the analyzed samples of Group 1 IS CONCLUSIVE,

  24. Fast Eddy says:

    BTW – people who are diabetic of riddled with heart disease – caused by a life time of sloth and jelly donuts … should be denied free health care. Anyone who smokes and gets lung cancer will f789 you too… and those of wrecked livers due to booze… kiss my ass.

    Fast Eddy is ok with all of that cuz FE has what is known as self control… HE Is tired of subsidizing the weaklings

    • JMS says:

      (rap mode)

      Don’t be so dogmatic
      you health fanatic!
      Some people were fantastic
      in deeds and words bombastic
      who drank as orgiastic
      and could even smoke plastic!
      people really iconoclastic,
      when their brains were made elastic
      or at least most unscholastic
      with all kind of stuff sarcastic
      and ideias flabbergastic


  25. Fast Eddy says:

    Health issues in the vaxxed ‘will inevitably lead to a collapse of our health system’

    He encouraged his Austrian listeners that the only fight they have is “the fight for your health, [in] not getting vaccinated.” In accomplishing this, all of the other measures will not be sustainable.

    Though he expressed great concern for “the vaccinees,” stating “we need to help them as much as we can because they will need extensive treatment in many cases,” he observed that the percentage of this group now being hospitalized “is now steadily increasing. Whereas more and more, with training of the innate immune system, with more exposure to the virus, more and more non-vaccinated people get protected.”

    “This will lead inevitably — and I am not a doomsday preacher — but this will inevitably lead to a collapse of our health system. It cannot be otherwise,” he said.

    hahahahaha… HELP THEM??? Hahahahaha F789 THEM. Let them die in the streets like diseased dogs

    Someone who does not know I am unvaxxed told me yesterday he has no problem with the unvaxxed but that they should have to pay for their medical treatment if they get sick.

    I am good with that actually but only if the vaxxed who get sick from covid OR from the vax itself… pay too.

    • D. Stevens says:

      Health spending system is doing well. From

      Ok, so how is it that in the fiscal year ending in September the Federal Government spent $354.3 billion on hospital charges and the year before, which I remind you was mostly before Covid-19 existed with the exception of the spring surge, it spent $404.5 billion? Oh, and the year before that, which was entirely before Covid-19 as that fiscal ended in September of 2019, CMS spent $407.1 billion on hospital services.

      How is it that by anything other than intentional misconduct designed to remove people from being on Medicare, and there’s only one way to do it my friends, that during the worst alleged pandemic in 100 years which mostly seriously sickens and kills old people the government spent less on hospital care than the year prior and as said pandemic has progressed and killed even more old people said hospital spending has gone down?

      I noted this disparity in the spring when it became obvious that the Winter from Hell for our Seniors did not translate into greater hospital spending by Medicare — in fact it was the opposite. How is that possible if the hospitals were stuffed to overflowing with older people, all of whom are on Medicare? Something doesn’t jive — perhaps we should look at whether we pulled those people forward into the hospital and stuffed them full of a drug that caused them to expire and thus not need the expensive heart surgery.

  26. Fast Eddy says:

    Renowned virologist warns of ‘collapse of our health system’ due to complications from COVID vaccines

    Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche warned of the damage being done to the immune systems of the vaccinated, and the inevitable grave consequences that would result.

  27. CTG says:

    I certainly find it interesting and fascinating that if Gail pens a piece that is a little “controversial”, then there will be people coming out from nowhere with the standard first liner :

    “I have been reading this blog for many years and I am commenting here for the first time. I agree to what is being said but….”

    There are also some commenters who will appear once a post perhaps, post a long write up of support or rebuttal and then disappear. I find it strange that why that person is not interacting with others. You need to defend what you have written. Isn’t that what humans do?

    We have to lay off mike roberts. During the quiet period between posts, his creator is actively tweaking its AI trying to counter the menacing and unpredictable the human side of FE 😉

  28. Fast Eddy says:

    1) Look at what gets banned and censored. This is what they are especially sensitive about, it is where they feel the most vulnerable. Vaccine side effects are the locus of their greatest anxiety; it is here also that they blatantly withhold data and even lie the most. Note the great contrast with lockdowns and masks, which hardly anybody has ever been banned for criticising. This is a place to push, even though I’m not totally sure how right now.

    Distribute this×533.jpg

  29. Tim Groves says:

    It looks like the UK is not going to go the Mittleuropa route. At least, not yet.

    From the British Medical Journal:

    Evidence is insufficient to back mandatory NHS staff vaccination, says House of Lords committee

    House of Lords committee has raised several concerns about the proposed legislation to make vaccination against SARS-CoV-2 mandatory for all NHS staff in England, particularly whether the benefits of vaccinating the remaining 8% of NHS workers were proportionate and how the NHS would cope with losing the 5.4% who don’t want to be vaccinated.1

    The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee said that the government’s plans had not been thoroughly thought through, leaving the House of Lords unable to scrutinise the proposed legislation.

    On 9 November England’s health and social care secretary, Sajid Javid, announced that all staff who work in health and social care settings regulated by the Care Quality Commission will have to be fully vaccinated by 1 April 2022.2 “We must avoid preventable harm and protect patients in the NHS, protect colleagues in the NHS, and protect the NHS itself,” he said.

    But in a report published on 30 November the committee said that the benefit of increasing the protection from vaccinating staff who had not yet taken up offers of the jab “may be marginal” and that the government had failed to publish any contingency plans on how it would cope with the loss of staff who do not want the vaccine.

    The report said that of the 208 000 NHS staff who weren’t currently vaccinated 54 000 (26%) would take up the vaccine under the law and 126 000 (61%) would leave their jobs.

    “Given the legislation is anticipated to cause £270m in additional recruitment and training costs and major disruption to the health and care provision at the end of the grace period, very strong evidence should be provided to support this policy choice. DHSC [Department for Health and Social Care] has not provided such evidence,” it said.

  30. Michael Le Merchant says:

    Ursula von Der Leyen calls for dispensing with the Nuremberg Code and making vaccination mandatory across Europe.

    Here’s Ursula last month with Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla

    • Her neck to also be extended in the Nuremberg 2 trials

      • Tim Groves says:

        She has certainly stuck that neck out, that’s for sure, going further even than Rod “Do-Ya-Think-I’m-Sexy?” Stewart.

        As I keep telling Kulm, these Continentals always revert to type and then eventually the English have to come across the Channel to sort things out and ensure fair play.

      • CTG says:

        I would expect a war to happen before any of these COVID restrictions lifted

    • Lidia17 says:

      Her “noble” husband is a bio-tech mucky-muck:

      “Heiko von der Leyen is the Medical Director of Orgenesis, a US biotech company that specializes in “cell-based vaccines” and gene therapies and deems itself “the Uber of the cell and gene therapy space”.

      He has held this position since September 2020 and served on its Scientific Advisory Board since 2019.”

      No conflict of interest there.
      None whatsoever.

      At the link, there’s the same pic that Michael shared, of Ursula embracing Bourla as she confers upon him some kind of Scuzzball Award to Scuzzballs.

      • T.Y. says:

        It’s so brazen in your face. It’s spelling out to anyone with a functional brain: “if you are going to lie steal and cheat, go big. really big.”
        The fact that they no longer try to even hide it anymore is very disconcerting. Either extreme arrogance or they think the win is already in. Or they have gone all in on their bluff.

  31. Michael Le Merchant says:

    COVID disrupted supply chains depleting inventories. This created an opportunity for price gouging, which led to panic buying accelerated by the wealth effect, all conflated as “inflation”.

  32. Michael Le Merchant says:

    U.S. should expect cyberattacks in any struggle for Taiwan

    Several U.S. defense leaders said Saturday they are worried that a confrontation with China over Taiwan would lead to a wave of significant cyberattacks against U.S. critical infrastructure that could disrupt day-to-day life.

    “I’m particularly concerned about them in terms of what they might do in terms of cyberattacks on our critical infrastructure here in the United States,” Army Secretary Christine Wormuth said at the annual Reagan National Defense Forum.

    “There’s a real possibility that if we ever got into a conflict you could see attacks on our power grid, for example, or the transportation sector, which would have implications not only for how we would be able to project our military, but also have substantial consequences for the American public.”

  33. Michael Le Merchant says:

    Brutal, brazen crimes shake L.A., leaving city at a crossroads

    Los Angeles Residents Stunned As Violent Crimes Creep Into Wealthier Communities

    • Fast Eddy says:

      Excellent. Imagine what it would be like without any police if the CEP failed.


      ‘But there is no harm in getting vaccinated in order to fit in with the governmental views and be able to get around more easily than the unvaccinated.’

  34. James says:

    This is what Jacques Attali (Bilderberger) said in 1981, who was then an advisor to François Mitterrand:

    “The future will be about finding a way to reduce the population. We start with the old, because as soon as they exceed 60-65 years, people live longer than they produce and that costs society dearly. Then the weak, then the useless that do not help society because there will always be more of them, and above all, ultimately, the stupid. Euthanasia targeting these groups; Euthanasia will have to be an essential tool in our future societies, in all cases. Of course we will not be able to execute people or build camps. We get rid of them by making them believe that it is for their own good. Overpopulation, and mostly useless, is something that is too costly economically. Socially, too, it is much better when the human machine comes to an abrupt standstill than when it gradually deteriorates. Neither will we be able to test millions upon millions of people for their intelligence, you bet that! We will find or cause something a pandemic targeting certain people, a real economic crisis or not, a virus affecting the old or the fat, it doesn’t matter, the weak will succumb to it, the fearful and stupid will believe in it and seek treatment. We will have made sure that treatment is in place, treatment that will be the solution. The selection of idiots then takes care of itself: You go to the slaughter by yourself. ” [The future of life – Jacques Attali, 1981] Interviews with Michel Salomon, Les Visages de l’avenir collection, éditions Seghers. “

    Attali today:

    “The common thread shared by pandemics throughout human history is a shift in power, Attali said. In the 15th century, legitimate authority transitioned from religious institutions to secular authorities. As people better understood science, legitimate power again moved from the secular authorities to medicine. Now, the world could belong to technology, for better or for worse, said the adviser to former French President Francois Mitterrand.”

    Say goodbye to your “government”, you now belong to technology and it will shape you to its liking.

    • Azure Kingfisher says:

      “There is also room for an economic realignment, he said. ‘This crisis shows that the economy that has value is one that protects our life,’ Attali said, citing health, hygiene, clean energy and innovation as some sectors that fit the description.

      “They already represent 50 to 60% of the [gross domestic product] of each country. The percentage should be higher.

      “Attali said the international community is entering into a ‘war economy’ that will last for a long time, and that resources should be distributed to correspond to this new context.

      “For the global economy to recover, the international community should pour cash and resources into vaccine research, said Attali. Investment into vaccines lags behind funding for other areas, he said, describing the trend as ‘ridiculous.’

      “The number one priority… is to put lots of money — which we don’t do — into vaccines and treatment research.”

      This is madness.

      • Tim Groves says:

        And, M. Attali continued, “A well-maintained sewage system being absolutely vital for the wellbeing of our society, and our civilization, our number two priority should be—ow you English say?—to pour lots of money down the drain.”

        • These kinda speak for themselves:

          Covid pale in comparison to past “pandemics” and is no worse or similar to relatively recent flu outbreaks

          Majority of “Public Health” reductions in infectious disease mortality not due to modern medicine rather treatment of water, wastewater and other sanitary advances such as solid waste disposal, food handling etc. The medical profession major reduction in mortality primarily due to reduction maternal/infant deaths childbirth – probably much of that nutrition related. Antibiotics came on scene when mortality rate already significantly reduced and by time vaccines no real significant progress when viewed versus where we were pre-public health.

          • Fast Eddy says:

            This is irrefutable evidence that the entire Covid narrative is a LIE.

            There is zero justification for lockdowns masks and dodgy vaccines

    • Thierry says:

      the first quote is fake.
      We have enough to think about, let’s not be distracted by disinformation please.

    • Calibob says:

      That was incredible James, thank you. It’s all spelled out right there clear as day

    • If I recall it correctly, Attali was (meant to) bigly into euro computers and early all things ~digital govs at that time (1970/80s early) it was not so clear cut that Americans would eventually take the such a lead in this domain..

      Hm, authenticity of these quotes aside, there is not such a leap frog ahead to another investment figurehead (Attali’s junior) in IT tech space, notorious for ehm vacuuming other’s ideas on the cheap.. and taking decades of slowww progress to make it finally somewhat working.
      That guy is now supposedly hell bent big time on depop+ as well..

  35. Fast Eddy says:

    You wanna know how duuummmb a CovIDIOT is?

    If you told them the vaccines would kill or maim 3 out of 10 who received them…. they would respond with … that’s ok … Covid is deadly so we need to do whatever it takes to stop it.

    I realized this yesterday when I picked up a message that my Pfizer damaged mate had gone to hospital — someone asked if all was ok and I said well… my mate has severe chest pain since Pfizer yesterday and is in hospital – I have another who is more severely damaged because he did P2…

    There response was that’s too bad but I guess we have to look at the other side of the coin.

    Oh right the other side being that 2 extremely healthy guys might have had flu like symptoms if they contracted Covid… you cannot sure stooopid so I said nothing

  36. Michael Le Merchant says:

    7-Year-Old Girl Has Stroke and Brain Hemorrhage 7 Days After Pfizer COVID-19 Shot

  37. gbell12 says:

    Hi Gail,

    A lot hinges on Figure 8, which shows a precipitous, disastrous, unrelenting decline in available energy, starting now. Have you published the analysis that went into this chart so I can have a read?

    Like you, I’ve watched this unfold for years and years. I expose myself to counter-claims, optimistic developments, etc., but almost always find them to have fatal flaws. I remain extremely negative (not pessimistic, which is a bias I have, but try to fight). Maybe we don’t need all that many solutions, and the few that don’t seem to have flaws are what will save us.

    Do you entertain the possibility that you’re wrong about important parts of what you’ve written above?

    A few things that give me pause, personally:

    1) This topic seems to attract the crazies.

    2) The people opining about this, with the exception of you and Catherine Austrin Fitts, are almost all white men older than 50. I despise profiling by age/race/etc., but I can’t help but notice this oddity. My leading hypothesis is that those are the people most secure in their station, who have time to read and ponder these things.

    3) The people opining about this are immovable – they never express doubt, or seem willing to consider other viewpoints. They’ve decided, and that’s that. Hardly a way to arrive at the truth. This even goes so far as for them to not be modest/suspicious of predictions, which I’ve watched fail for 20 years now.

    For the record, I can argue the opposite points to everything I say above.

    Anyway, thanks for all the articles over the years, and for letting me ramble.


    • gpdawson2016 says:

      Greg, you say “1) This topic seems to attract the crazies. ” … I don’t find this to be the case. You’ve been in it for twenty years you say, have you met any crazies who bring up this topic? I haven’t. In fact, I come onto these forums to find someone, anyone who is interested in discussing it. I’ve lived a long active life and I know of no flesh and blood person who raises these topics in earnest. The crazy friends I have are fully ‘woke’ and unreachable. How ’bout you?

      • Replenish says:

        Calling crazy is a low effort way to isolate/aliennate yourself from potential allies and to derail an honest conversation of controversial subjects. It arouses jealously, spite and self pity instead of an informed, friendly atmosphere conducive to learning. If you are inquisitive, well read and dwell on the pessimistic side my first thought is you are aware of the threat but struggling with acceptance and the preparedness you need to survive collapse. However, the squeeky wheel does get the grease.

        I share the long struggle and most of the time I have patience to sift through relevant posts and comments comparing them to MSM coverage, legislation and policies that affect my life. Lately, there are fewer MSM sources whose messages jibe with evidence-based medicine, principled living and first hand experience. The current movement gives the taste of state-sponsored propaganda, collectivism and coercion by the “one size fits all” approach. The rules apply to the rabble not the elite.

        There are some relevant experiences from my activism I could share for self defense. Enduring gaslighting, stalking and covert harassment, growing thru recovery from toxic thinkng, relationships and addictive behaviors can free you and put you in a position to help other sufferers. Someone is reading this part and taking notes. Keep it up!

        We have a saying..

        For one without experience no explanation is possible, for one wiith experience no explanation is necessary.

        Crazy people tend to be honest and laugh at the comedy of their errors. They have the ability to recognize their misperceptions while asking for help to reach clarity. Sonetimes they are passive-aggressive, confrontational and mean and other times weak and frightened. Maybe you are more like the crazies than you think, maybe not. Thanks.

    • Mike Roberts says:

      If, by crazies, you mean the likes of Guy McPherson, then, yes, the end of days does attract crazies. Clearly, humans have made a complete mess of the world but it doesn’t have to be as bad, as the crazies claim to know it is, to be irretrievable. But then, to some extent, humans were simply behaving as one might expect. Sadly, the fairly recent propensity to reproduce has made matters worse very quickly and humans have had the tools to make such a rapid rise in population possible. What it isn’t is sustainable.

      But, yes, people opining generally have made their minds up and will fight hard to avoid being seen to change their minds (maybe it’s because of the backlash that their followers would likely unleash). Fortunately, there are some simple ideas that are very difficult o refute – that all resources are finite (though renewable resources can be harvested sustainably, if the rate is kept below the renewal rate), that not every scarce resource has a readily available substitute, that the loss of a single critical resource would be devastating, that destroying habitat drives reductions and extinctions of other species and that such destruction will eventually impinge on humanity’s ability to survive and thrive. There are probably a few other. So this civilisation is undoubtedly doomed and the big question is just when is its demise going to become apparent? Many bloggers have been making guesses for a long time but it’s impossible to know. Humans can be clever (rather than intelligent) and so might find ways to put off the inevitable for a while longer.

      • Herbie R Ficklestein says:

        Professor Guy McPherson crazy? Who’s to judge? …as Jiddu Krishnamurti
        would like to ask in our society?
        Anyway, Dr. McPherson appears to be doing spot on according to Harry’s website.
        BTW, if you visit his website of Nature’s Bats Last Dr McPherson provides the research to back up his claims.

        • Mike Roberts says:

          His interpretation of the research is crazy, generally (some is OK but his tendency is to try to make his view look reasonable – it isn’t).

          • Herbie R Ficklestein says:

            But he agrees 100% with our standard of sanity in the Universe, Fast Eddie! The Doctor states the spent fuel for ponds will end all life on our planet.
            So, what about those apples, Mike?

      • Fast Eddy says:


      • Tim Groves says:

        No, don’t delete! This subthread could be a lot of fun.

        Guy’s been jabbed, so even Herbie may come to revise his views of the man.

        Field Mouse says:
        July 25, 2021 at 3:02 pm Edit
        For me, the most interesting part of this story would be how Guy and Pauline decided that getting the covid vaccine would be a good idea. He needs to take us on a step by step journey via his reasoning on this. Otherwise I have no other option except to think that they were brainwashed, and I mean that literally… Guy was a high profile AGW proponent, and had all the evidence documented. Were they targeted by directed energy weapons? Who knows. But something happened.
        Every hero has the fatal flaw. Did Guy fly too close to the sun? Did his ego sabotage his message? So many questions. So few answers.

        Pauline Schneider says:
        July 26, 2021 at 11:21 am
        The only thing that happened is that Guy is a scientist, an ecologist and evolutionary biologist.
        He is not scared of science that heals. Like most vaccines, we’ve all had polio and smallpox vaccines. Some of us even had rabies vaccine if we work with animals.
        The covid vaccine is now saving lives and preventing severe cases of covid thereby giving our nurses a break. Except for the covidiots who refuse to mask up or vaccinate.
        We are in Vermont which enjoys 80% vaccination rate, the lowest infection rate, and lowest death rate in the USA. Feeling very happy to among other intelligent, compassionate people who were diligent about wearing masks.

        admin says:
        July 27, 2021 at 2:32 am
        Mea culpa. How could I have been so silly, listening to:

        – a Nobel prize winner
        -a vice-president of Pfizer (the same way as Guy – you know – retired)
        -numerous vaccinologists
        -hundreds of doctors.

        I should instead, have listened to the words of the great “scientist, ecologist and evolutionary biologist” who knows so much more than anyone else.

        Please accept my apologies.

        P.S.Isn’t he actually a retired professor with qualifications in forestry management and evolutionary biology?

        • Herbie R Ficklestein says:

          Go to the source Tim and FE and Mike..

          And for more evidence…

        • Fast Eddy says:

          AGWers and CovIDIOTS overlap just about 100%… because both groups consist of MOREONS

          • you get promoted to moreon when you become an eddy-denier

            i was often accosted in the street by people who see my eddy-denier moreon lapel badge, wanting to know what it is.

            when i explaied–the universal response was:—” where can i get mine? i qualify for one of those!!!”

            That’s been going on for quite a while around here

            so much so it’s unusual to see someone without one these days.

            • Fast Eddy says:

              There is also overlap with the clowns who think we have been past the Van Allan Belts even after watching American Moon…

              This is a signal of brainlessness

    • Hi GBell12,

      I did answer a question about Figure 8 previously. It can be found here.

      I explain in the that comment that energy production is dropping by 6.6% per year in my model.

      Where I got this is really based on what the (somewhat crazy) folks who want to get off fossil fuel are aiming for. They want fossil fuel consumption to disappear by 2050. I think that fossil fuels are going away quite quickly, but it is hard to say how long. If other people think that some fossil fuels will still be around until 2050, I am willing to assume that some will be along that long. There are already signs that the decline is starting, because of low prices.

      I think that renewables will disappear simultaneously with fossil fuels, but to keep from being too pessimistic, I have assumed that the production of renewables will continue to grow until 2050. Once I figured out how much renewables I thought that we could perhaps have in 2050, I worked backwards to figure how quickly total energy supply would need to be falling to get to this level by 2050. This is where the 6.6% annual decline came from.

      We really are dealing with a situation where many things are going wrong simultaneously. Water supply is too low in many parts of the world, already. China, in particular, has a problem. But so do India and Taiwan. Also, as I discuss in the post, oil prices have been falling too low for producers, over a long period. This will, of course, bring the system down.

      A 6.6% decline is not too far from the decline already being experienced. The EU experienced an 8.5% energy consumption decline in 2020 and the US experienced a 7.7% energy decline in 2020. The world experienced a smaller decline than this (-4.5%), because China (which is by far the biggest energy consumer in the world) reported that it increased its energy consumption by +2.1% in 2020.

      I can see several reasons why older people are involved with the energy situation:

      1. People don’t get rich quick working on energy issues. Businesses want people who will give high estimates. Government grant money goes to people in academics who will find supposed solutions. Blog writing is not a “get rich quick” scheme. Writing books does not generally pay very well either. Young people do not see this as a lucrative field.

      2. The topic has been around for a long time. People who got started in the topic early on (Dennis Meadows – 79, Charles Hall – 78, Colin Campbell – 90, Jean Laherrère – 90, Robert L. Hirsch – 86, William Catton – 88) are getting quite old now. There are younger people as well, but you don’t necessarily hear about them. Also, it is hard to know how old the somewhat younger people are. Dmitry Orlov is 59; John Michael Greer is 59; Chris Martenson is 59; Ugo Bardi is 69; James Kunstler is 73.

      3. The topic can be depressing. It is not necessarily one that young people would seek out.

      • Hugh Spencer says:

        I fear you are right – but, there are “young-uns” who want to take up the cudgels. We need to support them – but there is such a horrendous mish-mash of information and mis-information, that it is very difficult for young people, let alone us oldies, to navigate. As a conservation biologist who has been watching this for years, I have found nothing to alter my course, as it were. It is a pity that you brought up the Invermectin and related nostrums – not relevant – and will get you cast into the further realms of Hades! But – you do wonder the degree of “malice afore-thought” that existed before dear old Corona V gave an excuse to Governments.

      • Gail, would you pls expand on why you included Chris Martenson on the top rooster as well? Did you attend – share some PO / surplus energy related public venue in the past? Or is it because his token adherence to “first principles” angle, concerning energy.. (when discussing economics)..and other upper structures on top of it. Maybe I’m biased but don’t see much commonality, as there are other people although largely indifferent to energy who perform good coverage or (even better) of the economics, pandemics.. as well.

        But in general your point on the specific age bracket ~exclusively carrying this ball is an important one. Huge societal realignments tend to occur when pre-warning signs voicing caution by the old/er generation are not heard or unavailable anymore.

      • Lidia17 says:

        Gail, this HSBC report from September 2016 made a big impression on me. In it, they estimated decline at between 5-7%, in line with your 6.6% assessment.

        On page 7, it also states, “there is no harm in getting vaccinated in order to fit in with the governmental views and be able to get around more easily than the unvaccinated.”

    • Z says:

      I am 28 years old….I have been seriously skeptical since my early 20s….and I started having doubts/skepticism about the “System” as a teenager.

      I have never been diagnosed with any mental illness and am quite healthy.

      I can assure you I am not in a very secure station as I am looking at potentially losing my job unless my exemption is approved.

      Perhaps, you are in an echo chamber yourself?

      • Ed says:

        Z, welcome aboard. I am 63 and my kids are 25, 34, 36. Hopefully you can start your own business.

      • Azure Kingfisher says:

        Self-employment and entrepreneurship will be the path forward for many. I interpreted the “vaccine” mandate in the US for companies with 100+ employees as an incentive to “get small.” Given what we discuss here on Our Finite World regarding energy resource depletion, it seems all but inevitable that people are going to be forced into relying on their own skills, labor, and localities. I’m thinking along the lines of employment opportunities of, say, the Italian Renaissance period.
        Shoemakers, blacksmiths, bakers, woodworkers, leather workers and tanners, candlemakers, builders, tailors, etc. – professions which are useful and applicable in virtually all geographic locations and were heavily relied upon prior to our modern fossil fuel-driven economy. These professions will continue to be useful as access to fossil fuel energy sources decline. We’re talking human skill, creativity, ingenuity, and muscle power; because that is all we will have left when we lose industrial civilization and that is what will be needed if we’re to survive.

        Everyone needs shoes, right? Well, what happens when you can no longer source your petrochemical-laden, synthetic Nike cross trainers from a factory in China? The factory closed due to coal depletion; the container ship no longer runs because diesel is being rationed and unavailable; the shoe store in the US closed due to declining foot traffic, and so on. At that point, you either make do with the shoes you have for as long as you can, try to repair them yourself or pay someone else to repair them for you, pay for used shoes, or save enough money to pay for the increasingly rare stock of new old-stock petrochemical-laden, synthetic Nike cross trainers that are available on the market. Given that everything in our physical reality disintegrates in time, eventually someone is going to need to replace existing shoemakers and continue the craft of making shoes for the next generation. Why not you?

        If I lose access to electricity, and I want to do anything at night, I’m going to need a light source. For a time, perhaps I can get by with a massive hoard of Chinese made batteries, solar panel chargers, flashlights, and electric lamps, but eventually my equipment will fail and I’ll either need to source parts for repair or toss the equipment if it’s irreparable. If I can no longer source similar equipment due to supply chain disruption/collapse then I’m now looking for candles and a reliable candlemaker – locally, too. Why not go to you?

        My advice: work on building skills in an occupation that relies more on human skill, creativity, ingenuity, and muscle power, as that will position you best going forward. As an example of what I mean, here’s a fun side note I learned the other day: most fabric and leather is sewn by machine using what’s called a “lock stitch.” It’s sufficient and functional but it is not as strong as a handsewn “saddle stitch.” Machines cannot saddle stitch – only humans can. For now, you can purchase handstitched items from countries with cheaper labor costs than your own country, but that will continue only so long as there is affordable energy available to bring those handstitched items all the way to you. After that? Well, you could rely on machine stitched items, at least until the machines need repair and the parts can no longer be sourced. Sure, you may not live long enough to see it, but I think given our current trajectory, that there will come a time when hand stitching will be the only game in town.

        Personally, I’m under a January 4 injection deadline, according to my employer. I didn’t file any medical or religious exemption requests. The funny thing is though, they’ve stopped sending me their weekly auto-emails about uploading my “proof of vaccination” documents. I think this is because the Biden “mandate” is tied up in the courts and my employer is now in a holding pattern. OSHA is no longer coming after employers in the US, given the court situation, so employers aren’t currently under the threat of fines for failing to ensure their employees either test weekly or get injected. I see two possible outcomes for my employer:

        1. They maintain their January 4 deadline, despite the unresolved court situation. If employees pass that date without submitting “proof of vaccination,” then presumably they’ll put employees under a 30-day unpaid suspension followed by termination if not in compliance within that period.

        2. They extend their January 4 deadline as the court situation drags on into the New Year. Maybe they kick the date forward a month, try to keep the pressure on their employees, then maybe kick it forward another month as the court situation drags on further or moves up to the Supreme Court.

        3. They drop their January 4 deadline and injection mandate and let their employees just get on with the business of conducting business and hope that they don’t face any legal repercussions from former employees (they did fire some healthcare workers earlier during the scamdemic for remaining “unvaccinated”).

        If you want to see which way the mainstream narrative wind is blowing, do a Google search for “Biden Mandate” and look at the headlines that come up. The mandate is going down – it’s just a matter of time – and it’s becoming common knowledge now.

        Hold the line and wait out the Branch Covidian hysteria. You’re 28 years old, Z. You and your peers are the future.

        • Mike Roberts says:

          Traditional skills are definitely worth preserving and reviving. Remember, though, that these craftspeople need the materials to work with, so we’d also need people to make the materials such as leather and linen, and people to raise cows, grow flax, etc. It should be fun. However, we could, alternatively, go back to not needing to wear anything. That would require a huge downsizing and re-location of populations, though.

        • Azure Kingfisher says:

          Indeed. One of Tim Morgan’s comments from that post:

          “At the moment I’m endeavouring to plot the probable future course of discretionaries, but yes, these sectors will trend downwards, reducing employment. Job losses are implicit, too, in the taxonomy of de-growth that we’ve discussed here, in processes such as simplification and de-layering.

          “On the other hand, we may see increased reliance on human labour, with an increasing emphasis on skills.

          “I believe that ensuring the availability and affordability of essentials for everyone needs to be the next big political ambition.”

          • Fast Eddy says:

            I wonder if Tim actually believes that last bit … or he is just trying to keep his viewers from falling into deep despair by telling them the truth.

            • Azure Kingfisher says:

              I suppose it depends on the timeframe he had in mind while writing. The next 1-5 years? 5-10 years? 10-20 years?

  38. Michael Le Merchant says:

    South Africa President refuses vaccine mandates and vaccine passports

    • Ed says:

      I expect the president of South Africa will die suddenly.

    • That clip is from February 2021 – the president has since done a complete about-turn. On this very subect I can recommend this discussion by Roman Cabanac which will also give you a very good idea of the non-mainstream sentiment in S.A. regarding mandates:

    • Nuremberg “ethical code applies to research involving human subjects, not public health

      So, it is OK to do anything the vaccine industry would like to human subjects, if it is presented as a public health intervention.

      • Kowalainen says:

        They must have been mental gymnastics a lot over this one. I do wonder why the ‘race hygiene’ of the 40’s isn’t considered a ‘common good’?

        After all; “we” aryans know that the Slav, Asian?, black man and Jew is a subhuman species of Homo sapiens sapiens.

        So why put the naz1s behind bars for violations of elementary human rights? After all; they did it to clean out the unwanted elements of society so that “we” can live in aryan utopia?

        As for the vaxxes; you draw the parallels.

        But don’t get me wrong. If people volunteer to walk into the extermination camps/injection sites, that’s a Darwin Award for you. Or an evolutionary trap so to speak.

        The coercive tactics reeks though.

        Who am I to judge. People are free to choose and within the temptations in that context is truth.

    • Lidia17 says:

      Michael, I was just listening today to a segment of the 21st Century Wire with Dr. Vernon Coleman, who put out a lot of anti-Covid-narrative videos early on in the plandemic. To no-one’s surprise except perhaps Norm’s, it turns out that all these new “fact-checking” organizations that’ve sprung up to fight “misinformation” are funded by the usual suspects: Zuckerberg, Gates, and even governments…

      Interview starts about about the 26-minute mark. Fact-checking commentary starts at around 37 min.

  39. Michael Le Merchant says:

    One wants to believe the Fed’s asset purchases have “stimulated” massive new lending that “supports” the economy.

    Here’s bank lending / total bank credit:

    All the Fed has done is to create a pile of zero-interest hot potatoes that encourages mindless yield-seeking speculation.

    The mere fact that half of corporate debt is in CLOs should raise red flags.

    We don’t know how many synthetic products in the CLO market the banks have created.

  40. Michael Le Merchant says:

    Experts fear that China is eyeing control of TSMC with a Taiwan takeover

    • Ed says:

      If China wants TSMC it can simply by it. market cap 565 billion

    • The problem: “90% of the world’s advanced chips come from TSMC.”

      • Ed says:

        Gail, equally important is advanced packaging which TSMC leads the world. For example having the memory chip close to the logic chip speeds the computer. This is done by stacking several memory chips on top of the logic chip. The wires running up and down through the silicon of the chips using TSV, through silicon vias, requires the technology to drill high aspect ration holes through silicon. The US government is giving IBM research in Albany NY, hundreds of millions of dollars to learn how to do this. TSMC already has it.

  41. Michael Le Merchant says:

    Russian President Vladimir Putin is preparing to seize two-thirds of Ukraine’s territory in early 2022, reports the German newspaper Bild, citing its sources among high-ranking military officials.

    According to sources, Russia’s “plan maximum” for the war against Ukraine “lies in Putin’s drawer, and he has not yet decided whether it will be caried through.” At the same time, according to Bild, the buildup of Russian troops, which started in April, indicates that the Kremlin seems to be inclined to go ahead with the attack on Ukraine.

    One military official told Bild that, in January-February, when Putin gives an order, the Russian military will “simultaneously attack from northern Crimea, through the occupied territories in the east and from the north.” However, other NATO insiders are confident that the attack could happen in 3 independent stages. Each of them could be the last if it causes the West to reassess the situation.

  42. Michael Le Merchant says:

    Now comes the final countdown to either peace or war

    “I consider the current situation as the most dangerous the world has ever faced, this is even worse than the Cuban Missile Crisis or the US attacks against Iran (the murder of General Soleimani) or Syria. By nature, nurture, experience, and training I am an unrepentant pessimist. But, in this case, I still want to force myself into a stance of “cautious pessimism” meaning that, yes, the situation is terrible and seems unfixable, but I choose to believe that there still are enough sane people in the US to avoid the worst.”

    “Still, I am acutely aware that the UK+3B+PU gang want war at all and any cost and that they are now setting the agenda in both the UE and NATO. The only actor which still could order them to stand down and shut the hell up would be the USA, but only one ruled by an Administration in real and actual command, not the senile aquarium fish collectively known as “Biden” which is in power (at least officially) right now.”

  43. Michael Le Merchant says:


    • houtskool says:


    • Tim Groves says:

      Rod seems to think you are a killer if you don’t get injected, but once you’ve been fully jabbed it is OK to party like its still 1999. It would take a profound encounter with either the viral or injectable pathogen to make him change that view, and even then I suppose he’d find some way to rationalize his stance.


      John asked the iconic singer: “When you see people who will not take it, do you feel the same way I do – does that make you angry?”

      “Yeah it does,” the popular rock singer replied.

      “It makes me angry, especially in America, where they talk about ‘It’s my right, it’s my freedom.’

      “No it’s not! Because you are a killer, and you can be killed. Dead simple.”

      He continued: “I think one of the countries in Europe are making it mandatory, you must have the shot, I think Austria.”

      “You think we should be doing that here?” John asked, sounding surprised.

      Rod confessed: “I don’t want to get into that one, people are entitled to their views.

      “But I strongly advise people to go and get vaxxed. I can sort of understand it with pregnant women.”

      “What do you do this Christmas, with the virus in the air?” John asked.

      “I know you’re not quite the partying beast you used to be, are you going to cut down your parties this Christmas because of the virus at all?”

      Rod explained: “We have a big party at the house. We’re just going to make sure everybody’s been tested.

      “If you haven’t been tested, you haven’t been double vaxxed and had your booster, you can’t come.”

      • Fast Eddy says:

        He needs to speak to speak to Clapton….

        And btw his son is a pro hockey player who has done an off season in NZ .. and it’s one of his good mates who has myocarditis as of Friday… wonder how Rod would feel if Liam was on the receiving end of that.

      • Tim Groves says:

        Rod’s old mate Eric Clapton has been double vaxxed, but I sincerely doubt he will take a booster. So I guess he’ll have to miss the fun this xmas. As an alternate guest, perhaps Celine Dion….?

    • Rod is just a simpleton (not meant in a bad way), but occasionally these types go (or are nudged) on ‘saving the world mission’ and its sheer disaster. My (long ago) diseased buddy used to play soccer with him in Cali early ~1990s and had only good words for him..

  44. Herbie R Ficklestein says:

    More than 500 deer were harvested from 2016-20 in Fairfield alone, according to Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife data. But last week’s revelation that high levels of PFAS were found in Fairfield deer dealt a blow to Poulin, who hunted local deer to provide healthy food for his family only to find out they were tainted by so-called forever chemicals.

    Exposure to high levels of PFAS may impact the immune system and reduce antibody responses to vaccines, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Studies have found the chemicals also may lead to increased risk of cancer and high blood pressure or pre-eclampsia in pregnant women and small decreases in infant birth weights

    Alex Poulin of Fairfield harvested this buck while deer hunting this fall. He hunted outside of his hometown because of concerns about the presence of “forever chemicals” in the water, soil and wildlife. Credit: Courtesy of Alex Poulin
    When a “do not eat” advisory was issued last week for deer killed in Fairfield, Alex Poulin was not the least bit surprised.

    Poulin has extended family in the Somerset County town, where the presence of Per- and Polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS) in well water — resulting from the use of waste sludge on farm fields — was discovered in September 2020 by the Maine Department of Environmental Protection.

    He is grateful that his grandmother and some friends in Fairfield have benefited from water filtration systems installed by the state to help deal with PFAS. However, many people have already endured significant exposure over a period of years.

    His hope is the state will conduct more widespread testing to help residents make informed decisions about what is happening in their areas.

    “I feel like everybody’s well should be tested [for PFAS] in the entire state because you need to know that,” Poulin said.

    🤔, Forever Chemicals too..add that to the list FE

    • drb says:

      maybe forever once they enter the body, or in water. in soil they will get degraded by fungi over time. not at all in the same league as spent fuel ponds.

    • I noticed deer and wild hog pop on the rise in many countries – recently mentioned as a problem, the explanation was multi fold – one reason being that the hunters are getting old/er while fewer next / younger generation to replace them.. kind of odd but the prices also dropped off so most likely true..

      The report above about [waste sludge from fields] doesn’t highlight enough the fact these animals look for secure – protected watershed area, and often times such places are “left to nature” because hap hazzard soggy profiled terrain is dangerous for today’s giga large combine-harvester machines etc..

      What I’m saying yes capitalize on today’s sale for these products BUT not in ~low lands.. where this toxicity is to be primarily concentrated.. only in highlands setting etc.

      • Herbie R Ficklestein says:

        When I lived in North Carolina, the Good Old Boys said during the financial crisis of 2008, they would just go out in their woods and kill a deer to feed their kin.
        Imagine within a short time no deer would be walking their woods.
        In rural parts like the State of Maine, poor rural families depend on it for meat and there is a hunting Season there to control the population.
        It also is a hazardous time to be out and abound. Usually, there are at least one reported shootings in the woods of innocent hikers or others by hunters thinking it was a deer.
        Here in S Florida our city purchased an 48 acre golf course for public use.
        Believe it or not one day dump trucks appeared out of no where with loads of orange sand spread throughout the fairways!
        Turns out it was from the waste treatment plant and suppose so hanky panky deal was made to dump it there to get rid of!.
        No explanation and right over the good top soil. Nothing has grown there since and with a bit wind some sand particles get in the air.
        How nice!

  45. Fast Eddy says:

    Here is a bit of data I picked up on J’ASSinda last night … in addition to being a commie (head of the NZ youth commies at one point)… I was told by a very well connected entrepreneurial type who lived near ASSinda’s home town on the north island (before he shifted to QT) that her uncle is a senior MOREmon. And that ASSinda was booted because she had a love affair with .. a women .. in her teens.

    This guy despises her… who wouldn’t… I responded to his big reveal by saying … well finally I’ve heard something positive about her.

  46. jj says:

    It appears that there is at least one instance of HIV individual who had covid for a long period of time with many mutations.

    The abrupt way that Omicron appeared without the characteristic one genome at a time changes observed in all other covid variant evolution can only be explained by this, or pangolins. It may be that since we have documented examples of covid living in HIV patients for long times with many mutations that it is possible that this is the source of Omicron.

    If omicron was “fast tracked” into existence it may even be that the motive was beneficial in nature. A less harmful variant to displace more harmful variants.

    If omicron evolved in a HIV patient it would also make sense that it became less harmful. It was in the patient for months and didnt kill them.

    We dont know. But we will.

    • Bobby says:

      Your onto something

    • Now we have an idea of what is happening:

      the fact that the disease stays present within the body of immunosuppressed patients for longer periods of time compared to healthier individuals could mean that HIV patients could be an incessant source of transmission and mutations of the coronavirus – almost like a factory of variants.

      The researchers have noted similar occurrences in at least four other HIV patients, where the virus was present in their systems for over a month, according to the LA Times. Insider noted that there have been cases within kidney transplant recipients where they carried the virus for over a year.

      • Student says:

        My impression is that all this attention to HIV patients will not bring something good, but something bad.
        As maybe towards an excuse for a experimental vaccine to HIV patients or towards an excuse for constant vaccination.
        Let’s see.

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